Definitive Final Cut Pro Slow Motion Workflow

[Stump Blankenship]

Moderators, hello. I'm recommending you make this a sticky: FCP Workflow for 60i>60p>24p

We got an HV20 to play around with at the studio and I spent about 3 hours trolling these boards looking for a definitive answer on GETTING SLOW MOTION FOOTAGE OUT OF THE CAMERA.

I noticed this thread does not exist, and so to have others noticed. So here is a hybrid thread with all the information in one spot.

HOW TO GET SLOWMO SHOTS WITH THE CANON HV20/HV30 and APPLE FINAL CUT PRO:

SHOOTING:
- shoot 1080i ONLY (HDV - 1080i60)
- frame rate is unimportant, YOU CAN AND SHOULD EXPERIMENT HERE, because flickering may happen, and it may actually look cool, depending on your light source (no a problem outside).

CAPTURE:
- make a 1080i60 HDV project

* log and capture over firewire is goofy with this camera. Make sure to turn off "abort capture on dropped frames" in the capture preferences window. Also, if batch capture doesn't work, try each clip individually. JUST KEEP RETRYING. IT'S THE CAMERA. IT SUCKS AS A CAPTURE DECK. But it will work, it's just a PITA. When in doubt, capture live if you have too.

** a note about capturing: get out of the habit of capturing whole tapes at once. Editing is all about FILE MANAGEMENT. You will burn yourself later when your drive fills up from the data is does not need, and then you're trying to move files to different drives, etc. Use LOG and capture, it's better.

- Save the project

To get slow-motion footy from what you shot at 60i, you have to split the interlaced frames. JES DEINTERLACER is the bizness. http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html

After your download.

SPLITTING THE INTERLACED FRAMES

- open JES
- select the clips you just captured (only 20 at a time)
- INPUT = "top field first" (NO TO PROGRESSIVE)
- PROJECT = "inverse telecine" from drop down
- OUTPUT = Video Output=Direct/Apple Intermediate Codec (very nice codec, easy on the RAM)
- all other fields, feel free to experiment with...
- Hit OK. This will make duplicate clips in the folder you specify. It's pretty fast.

YOUR CLIPS HAVE NOW BEEN SLOWED DOWN TO 50%. This looks cool, they are essentially 60p.

IF YOU WANT TO EDIT IN A 24P TIMELINE (most likely you do), do this next.

OPEN CINEMA TOOLS
- file/open clip/your new clips (this is a destructive process, so if you want some 60p clips and 24p clips, make copies first)
- once clips are open, you must individually hit CONFORM
- select 23.98 in the dropdown, then hit the conform button again
- thats it, close the clip
- you'll notice finder will now be confused and label the clips 720x540. ignore this, you're fine

EDITING 24P IN FCP
- import JES'd/Conformed clips
- change or make a new 23.98 timeline
- codec = AIC
- 1440x1080 / 16x9

That's it.

You'll now have .4X slow-motion clips that play back in your timeline, WITHOUT RENDERING. And it looks sweet. And you will be happy. And it's actually pretty easy once you do it once.

This was for Apple FCP versions <6. FCP Studio 2 (FCP 6) makes mixing frame rates much easier, so if you have FCP 6+, you're in a better spot not to screw up, and still not have to render.

Good luck and happy shooting.

[Gymnut808]

Hmm...I don't have a Mac.

Uhmm..okay..

Nevertheless, thanks for the workflow, I'll certainly try this out when I can get the chance. Any samples posted on Vimeo?

[zephyrnoid]

Sweet and very PROFESSIONALLY depicted. What a NICE first post. Thanks!

[mattias]

here's another one that doesn't require any external programs and no intermediate files. it uses two of my plugins, see homepage below.

start by creating a 24p timeline

add some slug approximately 50% longer than your clip (can be adjusted later don't worry)

add the new frame by frame interpreter plugin to the slug, and drag your 60i clip to the well (you may have to mark the clip as having field order "none" first)

now nest the clip by pressing option-c and return, this is to lock down the interpretation. you've now slowed down the clip to 48i.

hit cmd-j and set the speed to 50% and no field blending.

apply the slow motion plugin.

et voila. perfect smooth 24p slow motion.

(you can also do 30p to 24p slow motion using this workflow. just follow the same steps but stop before the speed change)

good luck.

/matt

[Agent:M]

Hey guys, sorry to "jack" your thread, but what about using 'Optical Flow' in Motion 3? Here is a little test I did a while back...

http://www.vimeo.com/2185653

[mattias]

That's exactly what we're trying to avoid. :-) slow motion by shooting more frames per second and slowing down will always beat any interpolation technique, even state of the art motion tracking ones. /matt

[Agent:M]

That's exactly what we're trying to avoid. :-) slow motion by shooting more frames per second and slowing down will always beat any interpolation technique, even state of the art motion tracking ones. /matt

Ah! Gotcha' Matt. Sorry about that!

[mattias]

no problem, i just wanted to clarify. i think this thread has room for more techniques.

/matt

[liquidsn]

When do I this with footage I shot with HDV24p setting works when I reverse Tele. But when I shoot HDV60i (and i know because its interlaced every frame in the clip) I put it into the JCE and it gives me the dreaded cadence Error#5017. Anyone know why this is happening? I want to play with slow motion so bad.

Doesn't reverse Tele make the clip 24p? But how does it know to make it 60p first?

[liquidsn]

okay.. the reason I am getting the Cadence Error #5017 is because you can't inverse telecine the 60i clip. It is only for 24p clips that have the 2:3 pulldown.

The clip is 60i (you can till because every frame is interlaced). So I think the above instructions is wrong...

To make the 60p you have to use DEINTERLACE under the PROJECT pull down menu.
Make sure you have BOTH FIELDS, ADAPTIVE, NORMAL HEIGHT checked. thats it.

render out as above and keep following to get the 60i to 24p slow mo

[bluropticproductions]

hey with the JES DEINTERLACER will this fix my ghosting problem on export??

[fishops]

hey with the JES DEINTERLACER will this fix my ghosting problem on export??

Maybe if you explained what your ghosting problem was, what program you're using, what format you shot in and what format you're trying to export to, we might have some idea what you're talking about.

[moonloon53]

In FCP go to Modify in the menu then select speed. You can speed a clip up or slow it down. Am I missing something here?

[superzero]

In FCP go to Modify in the menu then select speed. You can speed a clip up or slow it down. Am I missing something here?

Yes, you're missing the idea of creating fluid slow motion without interpolation or frame blending. Done correctly, the 60i to 24p method will produce much smoother results without motion blur.

[Chicken Warrior]

Thanks for compiling this info. Now is there a way to do this with Mpeg Streamclip?

[fishops]

The OP is incorrect.

- PROJECT = "inverse telecine" from drop down is WRONG.


What you should select is Deinterlace.

Hit the "Both Fields" radio button, and check both Double Movie Duration and Move Top Field Down One Pixel.

You will then end up with a new movie at 50% slow motion.

Inverse telecine is something totally else.

[Stump Blankenship]

Here is some sample footy on Vimeo

[ame="http://www.vimeo.com/2760560"]Horse Jumping: Kristine and Frankie on Vimeo[/ame]

[Stump Blankenship]

The OP is incorrect.

- PROJECT = "inverse telecine" from drop down is WRONG.


What you should select is Deinterlace.

Hit the "Both Fields" radio button, and check both Double Movie Duration and Move Top Field Down One Pixel.

You will then end up with a new movie at 50% slow motion.

Inverse telecine is something totally else.

Well, it's not quite six of one, half dozen of the other, but what you're saying probably will produce similar results. The OP is not wrong, but your post is not a "wrong" way to work either.

Deinterlacing simply strips interlaced frames apart, while an inverse telecine actually changes the frame rate from (in this case) 60i (59.94) to a true 60p.

[fishops]

Well, it's not quite six of one, half dozen of the other, but what you're saying probably will produce similar results. The OP is not wrong, but your post is not a "wrong" way to work either.

Deinterlacing simply strips interlaced frames apart, while an inverse telecine actually changes the frame rate from (in this case) 60i (59.94) to a true 60p.

No, it doesn't. Inverse telecine refers to a method of removing a pulldown cadence from 24P encoded footage. There's a whole forum section devoted to it, but I suggest you start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

There is no way to convert 60i into 60P without deinterlacing and losing resolution. The method you describe in the OP does not work. I suggest you edit your OP to avoid confusion.

[Stump Blankenship]

Broheim, I was just trying to clear up any confusion you may have left. In editing, there are multiple different ways to skin a cat; at the level you're describing differences in deinterlacing and inverse telecine, you're merely beginning to debate semantics.

Another forum user outlined this workflow with JES as I did. I used his notes as an outline: http://www.hv20.com/archive/index.php?t-243.html

You see, we're going from 60i source material, to end with a true 24p cadence, hence
the need for an inverse telecine.

Try not to thread jack.

[fishops]

I am not threadjacking or debating semantics. Your method is wrong and will not work, I'm trying to tell you how to do this correctly.

Inverse telecine does not convert 60i to 60p, nor does it convert 60i to 24p. You can not use inverse telecine to do what you are describing.

Inverse telecine is for removing pulldown cadence. If there is no cadence in the footage to begin with, you have nothing to remove and it won't work. If you're shooting for slow motion, you should not be doing ANYTHING AT ALL with pulldown or telecine.

The correct method for creating slow mo footage with JES is as I described in post 16. Inverse telecine will do exactly nothing for you, there is no telecine to inverse when you shoot 60i.

If you want to convert your slowed down, 30p footage to 24p, that's another matter entirely and STILL has nothing to do with inverse telecine.

edit: I'm not even the first one to point it out in this thread. Look at posts #9 and #10. Please just change your OP. This thread was an excellent idea and is well written and should be stickied, but not if it describes a method that doesn't work.

[efreeman]

hi,

i'm mostly an audio guy but i just git a HV30 and i'm trying to do slow mo. Thanks for the plugins!! there are just a few things i don't understand...

add some slug approximately 50% longer than your clip (can be adjusted later don't worry)

why do i do this again?

add the new frame by frame interpreter plugin to the slug, and drag your 60i clip to the well (you may have to mark the clip as having field order "none" first)

What is the well? and were do i find field order?

now nest the clip by pressing option-c and return

what is nesting a clip?

sorry for my ignorance but any amount of guidance would be most appreciated!

e

[superzero]

Broheim, I was just trying to clear up any confusion you may have left. In editing, there are multiple different ways to skin a cat; at the level you're describing differences in deinterlacing and inverse telecine, you're merely beginning to debate semantics.

Another forum user outlined this workflow with JES as I did. I used his notes as an outline: http://www.hv20.com/archive/index.php?t-243.html

You see, we're going from 60i source material, to end with a true 24p cadence, hence
the need for an inverse telecine.

Try not to thread jack.

He's not debating semantics. He's correcting your mistakes. Someone should correct the original post.

[fishops]

bump for sticky, also hopefully someone can edit the OP

[Down&OutDesigns]

SPLITTING THE INTERLACED FRAMES

- open JES
- select the clips you just captured (only 20 at a time)
- INPUT = "top field first" (NO TO PROGRESSIVE)
- PROJECT = "inverse telecine" from drop down
- OUTPUT = Video Output=Direct/Apple Intermediate Codec (very nice codec, easy on the RAM)
- all other fields, feel free to experiment with...
- Hit OK. This will make duplicate clips in the folder you specify. It's pretty fast.

YOUR CLIPS HAVE NOW BEEN SLOWED DOWN TO 50%. This looks cool, they are essentially 60p.

uhhhh... says it cannot detect cadence breaks.. :/