Canon "F" modes are the same as Sony's Native Progressive Recording

[Rumpelgeist]

Seems that aside of A1/G1 having interlaced sensors, what goes to tape is the same: http://www.sony.ca/hdv/files/white/H...ive_Primer.pdf : "Native Progressive Recording has been called 24F/25F/30F in some camcorders,
while actually using interlace CCD imagers." He-he.

Would be interesting if someone having access to both Canon's A1/G1 and to S270/Z7/Z5 could verify whether tapes are compatible.

[mattias]

sony writes even progressive footage to tape as interlaced as far as i know, canon writes "f", and no the tapes are not compatible. the hv's are different though, because they write interlaced when used as cameras, just like the sonys and the tapes are compatible, but can record "f" via firewire, and also read "f" tapes. i've successfully written tapes in the 25f format to my hv20 using final cut pro, and i've verified that they don't work in sony decks, and i've also used the hv to capture 25f tapes from the xl-h1.

(ok, i read the primer, and i admit i haven't used the sony native progressive mode. it would indeed be interesting to hear whether it's the same as canon's f format or not)

((they should be. f, also known as psf in higher end formats like digibeta and hdcam, is just interlaced frames as usual with flags set so that they're read, combined, and displayed as progressive))

/matt

[Rumpelgeist]

(ok, i read the primer, and i admit i haven't used the sony native progressive mode. it would indeed be interesting to hear whether it's the same as canon's f format or not)

((they should be. f, also known as psf in higher end formats like digibeta and hdcam, is just interlaced frames as usual with flags set so that they're read, combined, and displayed as progressive))

I admit I was one of those who was pushing the idea of "F" being recorded as PsF. Apparently I haven't looked properly at Canon's documentation. "F" seems to be written to tape as purely progressive, NPR is too. Cameras that support NPR can record in 50i, 25p over 50i (PsF) or NPR. Considering that NPR == F, F is not PsF.

[mattias]

You're probably right. I'll do some testing with the apple hdv 25p codec tomorrow, the one i use to write 25f to tape. It's easy to see if a 4:2:0 codec is interlaced by looking at the chroma on a diagonal line since it will show interlace artifacts even on a progressive image. /matt

[Rumpelgeist]

By the way, considering that "F" == "NPR" on tape (who cares about differences in sensors), one should be able to read tapes from new Sony's NPR camcorders (Z5, Z7, S270) on the HV! That is, instead of buying the M35 deck for about $5K one can get a below-$700 camcorder as a deck!

No wonder Sony is pretty tight-lipped about its NPR being the same as F, which are implementations of HDV 1080p modes that were in the spec from day one. Funny how Canon is considered (by some) to have created its own version of HDV standard, while Sony is considered (by some) as a market leader that finally delivered true progressive HDV recording.