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Thread: Best green screen material on a budget?

  1. #51
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    Question...if I use the "infinite white" technique, would I be able to place a still shot over the video (superimpose) to create the background? Not sure if I am asking the correct question here, but hopefully you get the idea...

  2. #52
    Valued Member Steve Kahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scon View Post
    After watching a few of the above links, I remembered seeing this lighting infinite white tutorial. Some great info and look...
    Much, much easier to shoot outdoors with a green screen backdrop and having the actors stand on a green screen throw and use the sun then do that crazy light setup (unless you're going to need the setup on a routine basis)
    http://www.ninjazombiesmovie.com (shot entirely on the HV30)
    http://www.kafilmworks.com/deathwave/ Check out my new (free) e-book!)

  3. #53
    Previously geeking out over 2/3" Scarlet. Scarlet-X...not so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EssentialParadox View Post
    I'd suggest not doing any blue or green screen work. The HV30 is not a 4:4:4 camera and realistically you will get green tinges in people's hair and their outlines. If you have a white background it'll be a lot more difficult to see any outlines.
    It's possible to get near perfect keys from properly shot HV20 footage.

    One key thing to do (pun intended) is to filter the 4:2:0 chroma before keying, by slightly blurring the U and V (color) channels. I.e. Sony Vegas pro has a filter for this, called chroma blur.

    The green tinge is always an user error, lack of skills or caused by bad software. Shooting format is not an excuse ;-)

    See i.e. the two first examples (ball chair & jumbo) in this clip:

    http://eki.pp.fi/HV20_demo_v001.mpg

    ...both HV20, shot on greenscreen.
    *Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)

  4. #54
    Valued Member Steve Kahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halsu View Post
    It's possible to get near perfect keys from properly shot HV20 footage.

    The green tinge is always an user error, lack of skills or caused by bad software. Shooting format is not an excuse ;-)

    ...both HV20, shot on greenscreen.
    Absolutely correct. No need for a 4:4:4 cam to do greenscreen especially with today's software like AE and using the plugin keylight 1.2

    Green tinges on a subject have more to do with green bouncing off the screen and onto the subject from poor lighting. You can correct that with a violet filter on your lights that illuminate the greenscreen (I believe that's the right one) but this may not even be necessary if you use keylight 1.2

    Keying is not that trivial if you don't have the software though. In that case really good lighting is more of an issue.
    http://www.ninjazombiesmovie.com (shot entirely on the HV30)
    http://www.kafilmworks.com/deathwave/ Check out my new (free) e-book!)

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    My first green screen project was nearly my last. It takes a lot of work to get it right. I learned a lot. Here are my tips. Many of which were learned during this project. Pretty much what everyone has already said.

    1) Light the screen evenly. Use your zebras to help do this. Set them at say 90 IRE. Then, open the aperture until you see the zebras start. Adjust lighting until the zebras fill the screen (on camera) and that they "zebra" evenly at the same time.

    2) Keep talent as far away from GS as possible. If you have 10 feet. Use it. If you have 3 feet use it.

    3) Use 24P or 30P. Don't use 60i unless you need to use it to get a specific look.

    4) Get the wrinkles out. Wrinkles will come back to haunt you.

    5) Be aware of shadows that your talent casts on the GS.

    6) Once your lights are set up. Don't move them around in between shots. Once you get your best setup. Leave it alone.

    7) Fast movements will be very difficult to key. Keep this in mind.

    8) Avoid camera pans. Remember, you will have to move your background at the same pan speed as your camera. Not easy to do.


    Here are the links to the finished project (Part 1 and 2). I had some trouble embedding this videos. Still a rookie here. Sorry...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2njmcuYw_4Q&fmt=22"]YouTube - Haunted Icon - Part 1 of 2[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4luzVm3R0c&fmt=22"]YouTube - Haunted Icon - Part 2 of 2[/ame]

    Here is some behind the scenes footage that was shot with a standard Def mini-DV. It offers some insight to the lighting and technique in the studio.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-z6MrZtGRI&fmt=18"]YouTube - 2nd Camera 1[/ame]
    Last edited by Timbickford; 2009 January 25th at 21:19.

  6. #56
    Senior Member DebG.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    I've spent probably a total of 2 hours playing around with FCP and was able to get this with a simple blue bedsheet, 2 soft boxes, and a key spot pointed at the ceiling in my apartment.


    Wow, very impressive and exactly what I'm looking to do. Can you explain EXACTLY how you set this up and what lights you used? In words a second-grader could understand I know you used FCP and I'm not there yet, but jumping to FCE4 soon and looking at buying some kind of lighting (cheaply) right now.

    Thanks, Deborah
    HV30, HV40, Rode VideoMic, Juiced Link , FCPX- http://www.MakingASceneProductions.com

  7. #57
    Senior Member dminor's Avatar
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    Deb,

    For that shoot, I used a bright blue bedsheet that I found at Target in the kids bedding section and two softbox lights from ebay (search "softbox"). Each light was placed on either side of the actor to give as close to natural but full, bright, lighting. I used the viewfinder to see how the lights looked until I was happy with how the subject was lit.

    Once the filming was complete, then it was imported into FCP and I used the chroma key filter to remove the blue background.

    If you have any other questions let me know.
    | Canon 7D | D|Focus |

  8. #58
    Senior Member DebG.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    Deb,

    For that shoot, I used
    ...
    two softbox lights from ebay (search "softbox"). Each light was placed on either side of the actor to give as close to natural but full, bright, lighting.

    Looks good. Might have to save up a bit, though Interesting that it uses 5 bulbs with each stand and they have the ability to independently turn on/off each one. Didn't see in the ebay listing -- are they tungsten or fluorescent? Appears to be fluroescent?
    You did mention a key light, too, though?
    Also, did you use any kind of backlight and how does that work in setup?



    I used the viewfinder to see how the lights looked until I was happy with how the subject was lit.


    Viewfinder meaning the eyepiece or the LCD screen?




    Once the filming was complete, then it was imported into FCP and I used the chroma key filter to remove the blue background.

    If you have any other questions let me know.

    Sure can't afford FCP (and learning to use it), but would Final Cut Express 4 have the same chroma key filter abilities? Is it very hard to learn?

    Thanks so much for the quick input!

    Deborah
    HV30, HV40, Rode VideoMic, Juiced Link , FCPX- http://www.MakingASceneProductions.com

  9. #59
    Senior Member dminor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebG. View Post
    Looks good. Might have to save up a bit, though Interesting that it uses 5 bulbs with each stand and they have the ability to independently turn on/off each one. Didn't see in the ebay listing -- are they tungsten or fluorescent? Appears to be fluroescent?
    You did mention a key light, too, though?
    Also, did you use any kind of backlight and how does that work in setup?

    Viewfinder meaning the eyepiece or the LCD screen?

    Sure can't afford FCP (and learning to use it), but would Final Cut Express 4 have the same chroma key filter abilities? Is it very hard to learn?
    1. Yes, the lights are fluorescent. CFL's to be exact. It helps to keep the temperature on your subject (and in the room) cooler.

    2. The key light was just your standard key light. No back light was used.

    3. Yes, by viewfinder I meant LCD. :-)

    4. I have no experience with FCE, but I would think that it might have it in the filters menu.

    I would check youtube for choma key tutorials in FCE and they'll show you how it works. It's pretty easy.
    | Canon 7D | D|Focus |

  10. #60
    I only post links & it's annoying. billbruford's Avatar
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    What was that? You need total emotional concentration. You can point your finger at the moon and lose yourself in the finger and miss the moon.

  11. #61
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    I just get think mdf sheets and paint it bright green It does the trick for me. Means you don't get any ripples from fabric.

  12. #62
    Senior Member DebG.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    I just get think mdf sheets and paint it bright green It does the trick for me. Means you don't get any ripples from fabric.
    Had never heard of "thin?" MDF sheets until your post. After doing a tiny bit of googling...interesting.

    If you don't mind my asking, what thickness, what size dimensions, etc. did you use? Did you put more than one sheet together somehow? Did you just prop it/ lean it against a wall, fasten it somehow (permanently or is it portable), etc. ? Did you use that "special" green screen paint or something from Wal-Mart type? Where did you buy your MDF sheets? Online, some kind of hardware store, etc?

    As you can see... I have a lot of questions

    Thanks, Deborah
    HV30, HV40, Rode VideoMic, Juiced Link , FCPX- http://www.MakingASceneProductions.com

  13. #63
    Senior Member DebG.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbickford View Post
    My first green screen project was nearly my last. It takes a lot of work to get it right. I learned a lot. Here are my tips. Many of which were learned during this project. Pretty much what everyone has already said.

    1) Light the screen evenly. Use your zebras to help do this. Set them at say 90 IRE. Then, open the aperture until you see the zebras start. Adjust lighting until the zebras fill the screen (on camera) and that they "zebra" evenly at the same time.

    2) Keep talent as far away from GS as possible. If you have 10 feet. Use it. If you have 3 feet use it.

    3) Use 24P or 30P. Don't use 60i unless you need to use it to get a specific look.

    4) Get the wrinkles out. Wrinkles will come back to haunt you.

    5) Be aware of shadows that your talent casts on the GS.

    6) Once your lights are set up. Don't move them around in between shots. Once you get your best setup. Leave it alone.

    7) Fast movements will be very difficult to key. Keep this in mind.

    8) Avoid camera pans. Remember, you will have to move your background at the same pan speed as your camera. Not easy to do.


    Great stuff, Tim!

    Interested in your lighting set up: looks like a couple of soft boxes? Anything else? Also, for soft boxes: what wattage and K do you recommend?

    Thanks, Deborah
    HV30, HV40, Rode VideoMic, Juiced Link , FCPX- http://www.MakingASceneProductions.com

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by dminor View Post
    Deb,


    If you have any other questions let me know.
    OK, sorry to bother again, but I'm in buying mode now.

    Looked at your link for ebay and saw that it was 35W, 6400K. I have seen another setup that looks VERY similar and a little cheaper http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120397428630 , but it's 45W 5000K.

    I guess I'm not really sure about Wattage vs. K (K=simulated daylight/balanced daylight?)

    Also, I'm a little unclear on key lighting. Anything special to look for there in regard to kind of bulb, etc.? It sounded like you were bouncing it off a white ceiling? The ceiling for where I'm shooting is VERY high, like 20-25 feet or so.

    Lastly, I also found other, even cheaper http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160324567176 , similar lighting kits on Ebay that had the same setup, but single bulbs (as opposed to the 5-bulb setup) and used umbrellas instead of soft boxes. What is the difference between umbrella kits and soft box kits in regard to the look you get?


    Again, sorry to bother you with so many questions... I appreciate your help

    Deborah
    HV30, HV40, Rode VideoMic, Juiced Link , FCPX- http://www.MakingASceneProductions.com

  15. #65
    Moderator Erik Bien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebG. View Post
    I guess I'm not really sure about Wattage vs. K (K=simulated daylight/balanced daylight?)

    What is the difference between umbrella kits and soft box kits in regard to the look you get?
    Hi Deb,

    The K stands for Kelvin, a unit to measure the color temperature of a light. Anything from about 5000-6500K is considered "daylight" for photographic purposes; incandescent lights are in the 2500-3500K range. When shopping for fluorescent video lights, you also want to look for the Color Rendering Index (CRI), which is essentially a measure of how "complete" the light's spectrum is; anything with a CRI above 80 is probably useable, although above 90 is even better. Below that and skintones or other colors can look "wrong" due to the missing wavelengths. Just as with household bulbs, wattage describes how "strong" a light is, as well as how much power it draws. Since CFLs are more energy-efficient than common tungsten bulbs, they typically provide more strength per watt. This is often noted as an "equivalency," for example the softboxes you linked each hold 5 45W CFLs, for a total current draw of 225 watts, yet each has the equivalent strength of 1000 watts of tungsten.

    Since I own both the Cowboy softboxes and this fluorescent umbrella kit I suppose I can answer your second question as well: since you can switch on anwhere from one to all five banks and all the light comes only from the front, the softboxes offer more control, but I find the umbrellas useful too. The 35W CFLs were a little wimpy for my liking, so I switched them for some 85 watters (400 watts tungsten equivalent) that I find a more useful size in conjunction with the softboxes.

    Along with a few LitePanels LED units, that's essentially all we used to light our 4K Challenge film, Raw Meat; you can see some more of the lighting setups in this thread (the boxers were basically keyed with both softboxes off-screen left and filled with two of the 85W umbrellas off-screen right).

  16. #66
    Valued Member areyouthere's Avatar
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    there are plastic green table cloths at dollar stores for $2-$3s, Zellers also carries them for a little more .

    a quick sample with plastic green screen.

    [ame="http://www.vimeo.com/1883445"]Back iN BlacK on Vimeo[/ame]

  17. #67
    ...formerly known as 'drapeama' Marc-Alexandre Drapeau's Avatar
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    Just to add to this thread, here's what I've used.
    I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN. I CAN BECAUSE I WANT TO. I WANT TO BECAUSE YOU SAID I COULDN'T.

  18. #68
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    I just spoke to Jeff Foster, author of "The Green Screen Handbook" at NAB 2012 and he still recommends the Lastolite Chromakey Blue/Green Collapsible Background as the best for the money unless you are using paint for a permanent background. In that case he recommends Rosco and Composite Components. The best background he has tested is from Composite Components, but it is expensive.

    For more check out his website: http://pixelpainter.com or
    this youtube video he did: http://youtu.be/oMDRA6PJtt8

  19. #69
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    I wonder if anyone has tried paint.
    My fried that works there said Behr "Green Acres" S-G-440 is the perfect color.

  20. #70
    ...formerly known as 'drapeama' Marc-Alexandre Drapeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Karl View Post
    I wonder if anyone has tried paint.
    Any paint that would do quite a contrast between the actor and the background could work. If you want to "sacrifice" a wall for that, then it's a good idea.
    I prefer some tissue or carton: removable!
    I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN. I CAN BECAUSE I WANT TO. I WANT TO BECAUSE YOU SAID I COULDN'T.

  21. #71
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    Or maybe paint a few pieces of 1/8" paneling.

  22. #72
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    I just looked up the fabric on the ikea site and it is indeed a bit yellowish and not really the RGB green so I don't think it's much use for proper chroma keying


    Ok, I have been looking for a new greenscreen that is bigger for some project Im working on. The one I made before isn't big enough. Those who don't think IKEA's material doesnt work please see what I did with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kms-it6RlU and how I made it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVH4-pn3tj0. Depending on what your shooting it can be almost any wild color that isn't closely related to any skin tone. Thats my input. While your there, please subscribe.

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