24P questions

[Lucasberg]

Now that I have bought a HV20 I want to try 24P to see if I can tell a difference.

From what I have read you need to do all this pulldown/convert/de-interlace stuff, Yet I see all these people on youtube that claim to shoot in 24p ,edit,then render to HDV 24p and bam they are done and they seem to think it's true 24P.

If they are wrong what happens if you shoot 24P - edit - then render to HDV 24P ? Is it not true 24P ?

Might someone have 2 clips , one of 24P in 60i not pulled down and another clip of 24p pulled down? I would love to try to tell the difference.

[SSzudzik]

You can certainly do what your talking about. You essentially blend the frames to generate a progressive video. But you wind up blending the interlaced frames as well as the progressive ones, which can produce a ghosting effect in the final output. Some people might see it, some people might not. With all the compression used in the y-tube clips, the difference may not be as noticable.

--Steve

[Lucasberg]

Ah , I will have to try a few clips to see if I notice anything.

Thanks Steve

[eugenehug]

OK. the whole reason to do 24p is to do it where each frame is progressive ( not interlaced ) and can be easier to put onto film for theatrical release correct ???

[Tosh Layton]

Exactly, Film is shown at 24 frames per second in theaters. 24P mimics that in that you can print a 24P movie to film and show it in any movie theater in the country. Now if films were created and shown at 30 FPS then 30P would be the "it" framerate and mentioning something like 24P would be as odd as mentioning 36P.

Other than printing to film 24P really is useless (in my oppinion) but 24FPS film is the standard.

Now when you shoot 24P (and makesure that you have your framerate at 1/48) you are capturing 1/48th of a second and outputting that in 1/24th of a second. Your brain makes up the difference.

All things being equal, I wonder if shooting film at 30FPS where each 1/60th of a second is output in 1/30th of a second, would our brains really notice a difference?

It's food for thought.

[Brett A. Noe]

I have to disagree with Tosh, 24p is not just for filmout. The 24 FPS cadence is one of the subliminal cues that what you are watching is film.

The shutter speed is 1/48th of a second. This is how long each of the 24 frames is exposed. The shutter speed affects the amount of motion blur you're going to see from moving objects. Again another subliminal cue that you're seeing film.

These aren't the only things that give a film look but they aren't the only ones.

I don't know about other people but I can see the difference between 30 FPS and 24 FPS.

But, to each his own. I don't like the video look, I like the more filmic look.

You do need to do the inverse telecine if you want true 24p. However, you can leave it as 60i and it will have the look of film converted to video. Myself, I do the conversion. I have FCP 6 (in Studio 2) and the Cinema Tools now handles the conversion to the ProRes codec. This is better for effects work later,

[24Peter]

http://www.hv20.com/showpost.php?p=13984&postcount=3

[joe12south]

1) There is no such thing as 24P HDV. Anytime 24P is recorded with a HDV device it must be encoded into a 60i stream.

2) 24P is not "useless" if you're not going to film. It's about a lot more than that.

3) If you only want the 24P look, but don't care about disk space savings, etc. and you know that you are going back out to tape simply record as 24P and edit as 60i. For the most part (except for effects) you will keep the film "look" without the hassle of reverse telecine.

[Tosh Layton]

Just to restate what I actually said:

"Other than printing to film 24P really is useless (in my opinion)"

My opinion, not what I am trying to say is a fact, but my opinion, You are disagreeing with my opinion.

Also, I never stated that 24P was just for filmout, I am just saying that to me, viewing the finished product in 24P or in 30P or in 60i, my eyes can't tell the difference.

BTW, I also do the conversion because I am simply used to working with 24 FPS, I like it more, and it helps me feel like I am a film maker. When ever I shoot in regular old 60i, (even though shooting HDV we are still 60i) I just don't feel like a film maker. Which is a great sellingpoint for 24P, 24PA, 24F, 24 fakeP, 24 wannabeP, and all the other flavors out there, makes me feel like a real filmmaker when I am doing it in 24.

I do hope Canon comes out with a 24PA consumer camera (highly unlikely) and maybe someone could invent a really cheap film printer.

PEACE