The dogma on teen mothers
In the absence of Veg, let me start a new topic on a moral issue here. ;-)
There seem to be huge differences in the USA in the acceptance (or non acceptance) of teens having a baby.
I understand, that CA has a different point of view than states in the Bible Belt. But Alaska is not in the Bible Belt, is it (Palin)?
Why are the differences in the US so large? Everyone speeks the same language and watches the same Broadcasts. Furthermore, religion is alive in most places.
As another outsider my take on the States is that they are roughly divided into liberal or conservative states and cities. An example being the perception that San Fran. is loose and gay, Utah uptight and pokey etc.
Human nature being what it is, like gravitates toward like in enclaves, some sprawling others condensed.
Here in New Zealand we have massive teen pregnancies issues, as does the States, if I can trust the media and youth welfare statistics.
I think society tries to rein-in sexuality, often disguised as protecting youth and adults knowing what's best. We are, fundamentally, animals with urges. Youth expressing their sexuality is contentious and uncomfortable for many adults. Westerners are sexually repressive anyway and thrive on sneakiness, fetish and deviancy; this in comparison to, say, pragmatic Thailand and other parts of S.E. Asia.
Last edited by Dr. Benway; 2008 September 3rd at 04:02.
Ok, but why then is it, that with mass comunication all around, those differences between states do never get realy smaller?
In Holland teen babies are hardly an issue. Maybe among new arivals.
The greater part of all couples here do not get maried when deciding to go and live together. Not even when the girl gets pregnant.
I suspect you have a liberal outlook in comparison to the people you are trying to decipher. Many communities live in close orbit to their church; they are indoctrinated to fear other messages, distrust the media and live sheltered lives. Such people probably watch prescribed television, if at all, and listen to preachy radio which daily reinforces their narrow viewpoint. It must be fun living under a rock awaiting the messiah. I don't think we can underestimate how many American's are living a few decades behind the rest of the world. They may not be living in the 8th century like the Taliban, but they are not far ahead either.
I think your question is really more general then, and the kids-having-kids issue is only an example.Originally Posted by Jo_the_big_O
The core question, it seems, is why are there mentality differences or differences in behaviour or social differences within a country based on geography.
THAT is NOT unique to the USA though, and is quite common in many countries. In fact Holland might be the exception if there are no differences between someone from Utrecht and someone from Rotterdam, for instance.
Just look at your neighbor, Germany. There's HUGE cultural [and other] differences between someone from Bavaria and someone from Schleswig-Holstein.
Or in the case of New Zealand, from Remuera or Ruatoki.
That's true. I just went down to change my tire the other day, and the guy was amazed the car wasn't pulled by a donkey.
That was a weird statement, Dr. Benway.
I know US hatred is rampant in NZ, but common; that's a bit of a weird statement.
I could site many of examples of New Zealand's not so favorable "issues".
Every country has it's 'quirks", believe me.
I guess it's just good ol' USA-knocking time again?
Well, let's just say there's two countries in New Zealand; one is Auckland, the other is north of the bridge and south of the Bombay hills.
I wasn't knocking the U.S. Believe me, I mean no malice in my Tourettic analysis of the frailty and comedic nature of humanity! I should have qualified it by stating 'some'.
To me the U.S. is a constant font of consternation and promise, and a magic pool of glittering creativity and inspiration.
And yes, effing NZ! It's got massive issues; we're a pathetic bunch of unsophisticated armchair critics.
And I mean the following in all seriousness. I did an arts degree in a little town called Wanganui (Big Bay). You can be walking down the street and see people who seem to have stepped out of a 1960-70's time warp. It's fantastic, stunning even. Knee high socks, bald men with a comb overs, I can't even describe it; the locals out on the town. Unforgettable, endearing, and a slap in face for my judgemental ass bastard self.
Last edited by Dr. Benway; 2008 September 3rd at 05:07.
No worries.
The one I liked, well laughed at, recently, was the one where the gov sold the rail system, land included for peanuts. Then some 15 years later (or whatever it was) had to buy it back for MUCH MUCH more, as they realized the new private owners had run it into the ground, and spent zilch on maintenance in all those years, and all lines were buckling and becoming unusable.
Politics here are insane. It's a dirty, corrupt little place and far worse than India in that the corruption is written into legislation. It's seriously got a lot of work to do. I do photo and video work in support of various socially progressive NGO's and they are dogged people; hammering away at entrenched values, bloody hard work.
I think it is more a clash of cultural and biological aspects of our existence. The idea of pregnant teens being unacceptable is a societal construct. In early civilizations a woman was expected to bear children as soon as her body was able. We are predisposed to self-preservation and back when the average life span was only 40+ years, it made sense for women to start giving birth in their teens. As science and nutrition have elevated our lifespan we began to shift away from having children in our teens and our societal and religious values have added a stigma to teen pregnancy. Humans are the only species that puts artificial constraints on procreation. That's what makes us different from other species and why sex is often portrayed as being animalistic. Getting pregnant in one's teens is likened to being no better than an animal that has no control over its biological urges.
Teen mothers? How about Irresponsible mothers. There are some teens who do just fine. But I can think of a much larger problem. Look to some of the inner cities. You have mothers who are NOT TEENS having WAY more children than they can support (even with government assistance), as well as not knowing who the father is. Ever watch the Maury show? You are NOT the father!
Teen pregnancy should be a big issue everywhere. It does not mater what state or what country. I think most of those pregnancies happen “mistakenly”…and others happen on purpose…all because they think they are in love with one another. What do kids know about love? As a parent I would want to try my best to prevent my child from making mistakes that he/she would regret for the rest of their lives. Also, the burden ends up resting on the parents…cause lets face it…a child can not take care of a child. Even as an adult…you would have to make sure you are in a good financial position to take care of any future kids. When those kids are unable to raise those babies...and there is no responsible adult around to help…what happens.??? Like Pez Man76 suggested…the local government kicks in (welfare)…and the next thing you know this becomes one expensive epidemic. I don’t know..but I’ll go as far as saying it should be unlawful for kids to engage in sexual activity…. It might sound unrealistic…but…you got to start somewhere.
There are too many double standards when it comes to sex and age in this country. For example…you could be a senior in high school having sex with an underclassman….nobody thinks anything of it. But when you graduate and turn 18…the following year…she is still in school…and he is still having sex with her…he can go to prison for having sex with the same girl…and be labeled as a child molester for the rest of his natural life. To make matters more confusing here is the USA…not every state thinks the same. What kind of cow-dung is that? Where do you draw the line. I say ban it all….until you are either emancipated or out of your parents house at 18. There are a whole other multitude of things to worry about when it comes to teen sexuality…and pregnancy is just the tip of the iceberg. I know this all sounds controversial to some…but so is casual sex period….but that’s a whole other discussion.
Oh...and this has nothing at all to do with my personal religious beliefs...it's just common sense.
Edit: The one question that I’m sure folks are bound to ask from my statement is…how the hell are we going to stop teens from having sex? Well…my answer is…..as a parent…by any means necessary. You as a parent are responsible for every aspect of their lives. If they robbed a store…the burden comes down on you. Expelled from school…the burden comes down on you…etc.,…etc. You must do what you have to (within the boundaries of the law) when it comes to your kids.
Last edited by Ian-T; 2008 September 3rd at 13:23.
No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life...Albert Einstein
Natural sex urges notwithstanding, it is both human nature and common knowledge "the more something is forbidden, the more it becomes the object of desire."
Even to the point of fatal obsession.
I know enough to know what works ... at least until it blows up.Then I know it don't.
There is a TV show on the ABC Family channel about a 16 year old girl who is pregnant ("secret life of an american teenager" is the name of the show). This girl is pregnant, hiding it from everyone, and still having sex with other people she meets in school and such. In the month or so since it premiered, this show has become the favorite show of both my 10 and 14 year old sisters. ITS GARBAGE! They are glorifying teenage pregnancy, and while i know that my sisters aren't stupid enough to do what they see on TV, other kids are, and that bothers me. Plus, ITS ABC FAMILY! lol
Oh, and Ian, i completely and totally disagree with your opinion about banning teenage sex. It is a disgusting idea and i am appalled by it.
Dylan
Yeah...I thought about all that. But if your parenting skills are up to speed...you will not have to worry about any of this. That's why I think parents should be held accountable. When I suggest that these things can work I'm basing it off off my personal upbringing...and my wife..and others that I know. You don't just tell your children no..no..no...you educate them about some of the dangers at the same time teaching them how to be resposible for their actions. Even with urges...what makes us different from most animals is that we can be taught to just say..."NO."
No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life...Albert Einstein
Lol...if anybody else had made this statement...it would not have been nearly as funny.Oh, and Ian, i completely and totally disagree with your opinion about banning teenage sex. It is a disgusting idea and i am appalled by it.
Dylan
C'mon Dylan...just two years left....U Can Do It!!!
No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life...Albert Einstein
Less than one year actually. I turn 18 in May...then again, that is technically still a teenager.
Dylan
In the U.S., juveniles (people 16 years of age and under) who commit crimes are absolved of their crime on their 17th birthday. If they are incarcerated in a juvenile facility, they are released. Their records are sealed and cannot be brought into evidence later as a felonious adult.
And heinous crimes where the juvenile is tried as an adult, are rare.
Most kids today (especially the bad ones) know this and flaunt it in the face of law enforcement and the courts.
Gang members use it as a protective shield to literally get away with anything short of murder, sometimes even murder.
In light of this abject stupidity on our judicial system, someone should be held accountable for the juvenile's actions.
My vote goes for the parents. Both of them, whether present in the family or not, should be held accountable both legally and financially. The same way a deadbeat parent can be hunted down for non-payment of child support so can any parent negligent in his/her responsibilities in raising (not just having) that child.
Kids today are not the same kids of yesterday. They are more violent among other things. And smarter. Or should I say 'savvy' in knowing what they can get away with.
If the law can't bring itself to hold them accountable then maybe it should put the burden on the kid's parents.
I think if a kid is bold enough to commit an adult crime, he/she deserves adult punishment, automatically.
I know enough to know what works ... at least until it blows up.
Ian's absolutely right. It's the parents responsibility to teach their children how to deal with their natural sexual instincts and what can happen if they don't deal with it in a responsible manner. If parents aren't there or don't give guidence than you can only hope that some other adult will step in and provide some guidence.
I also have to agree with Dylan. Making sex against the law for teenages is a bad idea. Of couse how do you define sex in light of how Clinton defined it.
If a kid is old enough to die for his country in Irak, it is old enough to enjoy the greatest pleasure in life. Apart from owning a HV20/30, that is.
Just joking of course. But more seriously.
Why should that greatest pleasure be limited only to people of a certain age? No way in my way. I think the solution lies in a proper education on avoidance to get pregnant. The succes of such education is the reason why there are far less teen mothers in Holland than in many other countries.
Off topic:
Anyone noticed, that in Previdmans posts you can find many double returns? Want to know why? He is pre-typing his messages in a word procesor, do a check and only thereafter he puts it on the forum.
He hates being caught on typing errors.
Many teenage girls now consider oral sex as abstinence from and a substitute for having 'real' sex. Thanks to 'Teflon Bill'!
Nothing like setting a high moral standard for our country. But then again he was 'just' the President. And look how good the economy was, anyway. (said tongue in cheek)
'Course if I was a teenage boy, I wouldn't be arguing the logic.
I know enough to know what works ... at least until it blows up.
previdman - you've been caught.
Ha, I made this exact point in another thread today, and it looks like right about the same time too! Eerie......
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