HG20/21 media samples / content?

[Shadow_7]

I appologize if these new cams have their own forums. Which might explain the lack of content currently here. That and they're coming out next month. But I want to see some samples before I buy. And the HG20 seems to meet my needs better than the HV30. At a minimum it has a larger sensor, higher zoom capabilities, and other plusses and minuses.

So any samples out there yet? Stills? Short clips? I'm on dialup, but can relocate to a wifi hotspot for slightly larger clips if need be. As large as I can retrieve on laptop battery power anyway (1 hour / 300MB). Or just point me to the other forum, as it's almost like this cam doesn't exist in this corn field.

[net]

I'm pretty sure that the footage from the upcoming HF11, which stores on solid state, instead of HG20's hard drive/but both can record to SD cards...are essentially going to look the same.

Go here, you can download samples, including 24mbps:

http://www.google.com/translate?u=ht...F8&sl=ja&tl=en



The HF11 has been talked about a lot on this site, here is one of the threads:

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=13993

[Shadow_7]

Thanks.

Is there some special player needed to view MTS files? I downloaded the 31MB ezsm021.mts file and mplayer (mplayerhq.hu) only plays 11 seconds of audio. I'm assuming this is the raw format. Will M$'s mplayer be able to play it, or is canon warez needed to work with said file? I need to insure that I'll be able to handle the resultant media before I drop the cash to get the device. Plus I want to see the quality of said media.

[Shadow_7]

Okay so I tried M$ and it barked, groaned, and eventually played just 11.4 seconds of audio. It looks like I'm missing the H.264 codec. Supported in VLC 0.9.0 versions. Mplayer 1.0rc2 seems to suggest support. That's the version I'm using. But libdvdnav4 is not installed and other lib versions may be slightly out of date. Here's hoping I can make it work. But it's looking more like the HV30 is for me. I don't have any quad core desktops, or after market video cards. Aside from the firewire issue, the HV30 should be easier to work with.

There's a 18+MB download for the H.264 codec for windows. Not alluring given my dialup connection(2 hours assuming no hiccups). And since it's an .exe, it'll probably just install part of it and need to download another 60MB from the web. And on other forums that codec isn't the best option for playback. Tapes and the HV30 are probably less headache. And it saves me about $200 to put towards the Scarlet later. Despite recommended MSRP's.

[net]

You can start by download the .mpg files; the one with the cat at the middle of the page and the ones called "room" and "light" lower down...also .mpg/will play in Windows Media Player.


If you want something to view mts files. I know it will work in Sony Vegas Pro...you can download the free 30-day trial here:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...rials/vegaspro

..probably platinum will play mts also:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/.../moviestudiope

..but Pro, definitely, I'm sure...


There are probably freeware .mts players, that are smaller file size than the Vegas 100+ mb downloads...
...you can do a search.

[Shadow_7]

You can start by download the .mpg files; the one with the cat at the middle of the page and the ones called "room" and "light" lower down...also .mpg/will play in Windows Media Player.

Well I could. But so far all of the samples I've downloaded don't play until it's ALL downloaded. And 300+MB is about a 2 day download on dialup. The driver for H.264 being about 2 hours (in theory). Maybe not worth it for an 11 second clip, IMO. If I buy an HV30, I should (in theory) get the driver and warez to use it. Plus the analog input is looking pretty good to me for the money. I've got some OLD VHS's I'd really like to digitize. And extras like a tv card is just less I have to put towards a scarlet later.

Not that I don't want an HDD based cam, because I do. But in terms of features and useability the HV30 is starting to look pretty good. Only one out of my 5 PCs are capable of playing HD content without burping anyway. I really don't want/need another PC just yet. As it is, I'm probably gonna have to get a firewire card.

[DaFireMedic]

At a minimum it has a larger sensor, higher zoom capabilities, and other plusses and minuses.

I agree, this camcorder looks intriguing and I may purchase one. But the sensor is actually smaller than the HV30's, not larger.

HV30 - 1/2.7
HG20 - 1/3.2

Or just point me to the other forum, as it's almost like this cam doesn't exist in this corn field.

There have been some discussions in the "other cams" forum. But don't expect too much to be discussed yet, as the camcorder has not been released and nobody has one yet. When it is, I'm sure there will be some deep discussion on it here.

[Shadow_7]

the sensor is actually smaller than the HV30's, not larger.

HV30 - 1/2.7
HG20 - 1/3.2

I guess that seals it's fate for me. The HV30 keeps looking better. As I sign up for a remedial math class. 1/2.7 ~= 0.37 || 1/3.2 ~= 0.31 || ~ 1.5 mm difference. Almost 20% larger on the HV30. <insert size doesn't matter pun>

The main issue that I see is that the tapes will only last about one hour. I'll likely record in the rain at some point, and protecting the camera is one thing, but swapping tapes AND protecting the camera might be a bit much. As I run through the plexiglass with windshield wiper and waterproof hoodie rig for the camera scenarios and how to swap tapes in a down pour logistics. It's not like I can park my car on top of the bleachers. Or can I? Nah, I was wanting the plexiglass so it wouldn't fog (as much) because of the thermal difference of glass versus plastic.

Of course with an HDD, one has to worry about the battery drain of the HDD. It looks like I'll may be swapping something every hour or sooner regardless of which I get. Only time will tell. In the meantime the H.264 codec is almost downloaded. Need more (small) samples...

[Shadow_7]

Bleh. Worthless.

DivXInstaller.exe
from download.divx.com

Doesn't work for .mts files. Either. Even if I rename the media to .m2ts

20MB-ish / 2 hours later / 15 day trial period started and all / and not any closer. Aside from basic engineering school stuff of knowing more about what doesn't work, than what does. aka M$ methodology. I guess I'll focus on upgrading to VLC in linux. Less headache, higher probability of basic abilities.

[Shadow_7]

I'm starting to see the light. Almost got it working in linux for playback. Unfortunately it requires a few source only packages. And other from source packages for more recent versioning. A cvs version from 2006 isn't cutting it I guess. And at the moment success is only partial on my slow-ish laptop that's not capable of playing the videos in realtime. But I finally have some video with audio, before it crashes. In mplayer I have to give it a frames per seconds rate, but's it's trying.

Back on topic I guess, any more media samples (hopefully small-ish) to tinker with. .MTS should be fine once I iron things out.

[RScottyL]

I would give Media Player Classic a try since it has just about played everything I have thrown at it.

[superzero]

I have an HV30 and an HF100. In good light, the picture quality is damn near indistinguishable between the two. But while the HF100 is easy to carry around, some of the controls are more difficult to use. For example, the manual focus is a menu item on the HF100 making it almost unusable. In my opinion, the HV30 is still the king.

[Shadow_7]

I finally got my media codecs up to par in linux. So now I can view .MTS files. Just not in realtime. Not only can I view them, but more importantly I can now convert them. 720p seems best suited for this laptop (1280x800 display).

ffmpeg -i input_file.mts -s hd720 -sameq output_file.mpg

or

ffmpeg -i intput_file.mts -target dvd -sameq output_file.mpg

Either yields a decent and playable version. So now I'm torn. I want HDD recording. I need to record in 3 hour sittings, and it's just not much fun if I'm swapping out tapes in the rain, and whatever else gets thrown at me. I'm also noticing that the HG20/21 has 3.3 megapixels. Where HV30 only does 2.7 megapixels. Does this mean sharper / higher quality stills?

Now I realize it may not have the same ergonomics as the HV, but should I go with the HG20? Will I be able to transfer files over the USB, and not have to get a firewire for my laptop? Plus other factors like 12x optical zoom versus 10x. Still pictures without a memory card? I guess I'll have to wait and see. It's September, is it available yet?

[dan pak]

It's September, is it available yet?

no. september 15th.

[Shadow_7]

I know it's not the 15th yet. But are there any samples from the HG20 yet? I'm wanting to capture action-ish shots, so I need to compare how it does versus the HV30. Spinning flags and other moving objects. From what I've seen of HF11, HF10, HF100 footage AVCHD seems to show artifacts with vertical motion.

Sprinkler test footage shows falling dropplets as an every other line image. Does the HV30 have the same characteristic? A lot of the action I'll be recording will be circular. I'm really wanting a USB only device and no tapes. But if I get better results and much cheaper price going with an HV30, I suppose I could live with that for now. Not to imply like it. But I really want HG20 samples to compare it against. Raw footage preferred. I need to know that I can handle the content (edit / convert) and such as well.

[net]

I know it's not the 15th yet. But...

Actually, the HG20 must have already been released because I saw on the Circuit City website that it was available for pickup at a store in my area.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/produ....do?oid=219317

Note that it doesn't mention "pre-order" and says "Get it today: check in-store".

As a matter of fact, B&H is listing both the HG20 and HF11 as "in stock" :

HG20
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...y=12&Go=submit

HF11
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...VCHD_Dual.html


...and Best Buy is also listing the HF11 as in stock:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=19-10286577-2

[Sagefox]

Either yields a decent and playable version. So now I'm torn. I want HDD recording. I need to record in 3 hour sittings, and it's just not much fun if I'm swapping out tapes in the rain, and whatever else gets thrown at me. I'm also noticing that the HG20/21 has 3.3 megapixels. Where HV30 only does 2.7 megapixels. Does this mean sharper / higher quality stills?

Have you considered an HG10? Its the least expensive, uses HDD, and has a 1/2.7 sensor. The image quality and 24p are excellent. (same imaging and processing system as tape models)

[Shadow_7]

Have you considered an HG10? Its the least expensive, uses HDD, and has a 1/2.7 sensor. The image quality and 24p are excellent. (same imaging and processing system as tape models)

It's an option. But for $100 more I get 20% more zoom, 50% more storage, and a higher MP still image. That's a little more attractive than the $300 more for a viewfinder and 2x's the storage of the HG21. Assuming they use 1.8" laptop drives, I could probably upgrade the drive for considerably less. Baring any fancy screws and/or other counter measures to prevent me from doing so. (post warranty anyway)

In the meantime I'm waiting on content / reviews to help me push the buy now button. And I'm waiting on my trumpet / euphonium / tuba to sell so I can pay for it.

[net]

In the meantime I'm waiting on content / reviews to help me push the buy now button. And I'm waiting on my trumpet / euphonium / tuba to sell so I can pay for it.

You should call around and see if any stores have the HG20 or HF11 on display. You could bring in your own SDHC card, do tests like panning, etc. and then bring the card home and see for yourself.

[Shadow_7]

You should call around and see if any stores have the HG20 or HF11 on display. You could bring in your own SDHC card, do tests like panning, etc. and then bring the card home and see for yourself.

Should, but I don't have any SDHC cards (yet), unless that's what that 2GB duo (sony) thing is in my digital camera. And the nearest store of that type is 30 miles out, 60 miles round trip, so about $10 in gas. I think I'll wait for the liquidation of assets first. That way maybe I'll only need to make one trip. Gotta love laptops.

[dan pak]

Should, but I don't have any SDHC cards (yet), unless that's what that 2GB duo (sony) thing is in my digital camera. And the nearest store of that type is 30 miles out, 60 miles round trip, so about $10 in gas. I think I'll wait for the liquidation of assets first. That way maybe I'll only need to make one trip. Gotta love laptops.

where the heck do you live? in the desert?

[Shadow_7]

where the heck do you live? in the desert?

40 miles from the Texas state capital. Mostly farmland around the homestead. It's a 7 mile round trip just to go to the post office and back. At times it could feel like a desert, but it's not technically.

This town pretty much has two internet hits. An F5 that leveled the place in 1997 and some census bureau stuff. The census showing 450-ish population from 1908 to 1990. The city hall is shared with the neighboring town, also a 20 mile round trip for tags and taxes.

But it has advantages, no pesky neighbors, and plenty of local wildlife to acquire footage of. At the moment tons of frogs. An occassional snake, skunk, opossum, squirrel, lizards. And tons of birds and insects. Plus enough mice and rabbits to keep the pets fed if we forget to do so.

[Shadow_7]

So I've been comparing the specifications of the HG20 to the HG21 and these appear to be the differences.

HG21: 2.7" Multi-Angle Vivid Widescreen LCD (approx. 211,000 pixels)
HG20: 2.7" Widescreen LCD (approx. 211,000 pixels)

I'm not sure if that differs at all. But the description does.

HG21: Viewfinder - .27" (approx. 123,000 pixels)
HG20: Viewfinder - NONE

HG21: Recording Media - Internal Hard Disk Drive (120GB)
or SD/SDHC Memory Card
HG20: Recording Media - Internal Hard Disk Drive (60GB)
or SD/SDHC Memory Card

If there's not a significant difference in LCD, I'm not sure it's worth $350 ($1299 - $949) for a viewfinder and +60GB storage. Even with I'm not sure. It looks like the in the box stuff is the same, except for the camcorder itself.

Anyone know what the battery life is? Stock and High Capacity BP-827? Or any quirks should the battery die while recording? And more importantly samples....

As I make plans to locate one locally to test before purchase. Even though post Ike gas prices are approaching $5 per gallon.

[dan pak]

i dont think the viewfinder and the extra HDD is worth it. 60GB is ALOT, and if you ever run out, you can add SDHC cards.

[Shadow_7]

I guess it's not that available yet.

Circuit City for HG20:
Round Rock --- 19 miles --- Not currently available
Cedar Park --- 20 miles --- Not currently available
Harker Heights --- 22 miles --- Not currently available
Temple --- 25 miles --- Not currently available
Arbor Walk --- 26 miles --- Not currently available
Sunset Valley --- 38 miles --- Not currently available
Southpark Meadows --- 42 miles --- Not currently available
Waco --- 58 miles --- Not currently available
New Braunfels --- 78 miles --- Not currently available
San Antonio --- 92 miles --- Not currently available

Or is it?

Best Buy:
Georgetown TX --- Georgetown, TX
Killeen TX --- Killeen, TX
Temple TX --- Temple, TX
Round Rock TX --- Round Rock, TX
Austin TX --- Cedar Park, TX
Techridge TX --- Austin, TX
(appears to be available at all of them BOLD)

I didn't know there was one in Georgetown. It looks like that's my best bet. Everything else is 20-ish or more miles out. 40 miles round trip. While not close by any means, still about half the mileage of other options. I guess I'll need an SDHC card (and reader) as well. It looks like HG21 isn't available until next month anyway.