Gain (Exposure Lock with Photo Button Trick)

[oddmanil]

Will reducing gain while editing in Vegas Pro give the same result?

[Dr. Benway]

Although I don't know all the tech-speak regarding what Vegas would do to your footage, I'd say no. The better the source footage, the better the output, the easier and more pleasurable the edit.

Vegas would mash your footage.

Regarding the previous posts, as for using Spotlight mode, have you seriously tried that in daylight? Ha, ha, ha.

[Lunchbox]

Will reducing gain while editing in Vegas Pro give the same result?

It's always best to start with clean footage. Gargabe-in-garbage-out.

[Ian-T]

Oddmanil...it's as Lunchbox says...Garbage in...Garbage out. I know what you are thinking...but it does not work that way. Once you start to color correct that "Garbage In" footage then you will start seeing other problems with it. Also...cleaning it up in post only goes so far...till you start seeing other unwanted artifacts. IMO

[Paul Tarlevs]

Oddmanil...it's as Lunchbox says...Garbage in...Garbage out. I know what you are thinking...but it does not work that way. Once you start to color correct that "Garbage In" footage then you will start seeing other problems with it. Also...cleaning it up in post only goes so far...till you start seeing other unwanted artifacts. IMO

OK I got it now. But how come when I zoom in, the aperture changes is that right?

Heres how I do it.

I press one on my cellphone on tv mode 1/48 shutter and immdeiatelly lock exposure.

I then change the exposure while checking to see the aperture to f1.8.

When it is set to 1.8 and at 1/48 shutter, it is a darker crisper image.


Is this right?



Also should I lock exposure immediatelly or lock it when I see the change f1.8 and 1/48 shuhtter during the cellphone screen.


OR like in DFv2's post:


1) Zoom all the way out.
2) Aim at any light source you like, check and recheck apature/shutter.
3) Try as hard as possible to aim at something that will produce a 2.8 - 1/48 setting.
4) LOCK IN the 2.8 - 1/48
5) Adjust exposure at will, the upper limit will be +6 (1.8 w/no gain) and the lower limit will be the bottom of the barrel -11.





or does it even matter?

[pwrlogic]

The 5 step process of locking the exposure at 1.8 is great but everytime i hit the photo button i get a blinking red camera in the lower left of my lcd. No exposure and shutter info is displayed.
Does anyone know what that means.
I do have a sd card in the slot

[Ian-T]

@ mute and Oddmanil...in TV mode (IMO) it does not really matter how you get there...as long as you have the f 1.8 @ 1/48. I don't bother with the light trick in TV mode. But...you have to be aware that sometimes f 1.8 will show up several times in that mode (sometimes)...when that happens just click to the left several times untikl you get to the very 1st f 1.8.... That's the only "true" f 1.8 setting... all the others will add gain to your footage (I think since the HV20 does not show you gain...it will still add it in the background and you never know what's going on).

In this case...I'd just use DFv2's method.....better safe than sorry. I think this way...every click on the slider would be a more accurate reading.

[Ian-T]

The 5 step process of locking the exposure at 1.8 is great but everytime i hit the photo button i get a blinking red camera in the lower left of my lcd. No exposure and shutter info is displayed.
Does anyone know what that means.
I do have a sd card in the slot

Really? You sure you don't have it in card mode...? Maybe eject the card and see if it is inserted correctly. I'm not in front of my cam....but maybe it's just an indicator that you are not in manual mode.

[Rumpelgeist]

The 5 step process of locking the exposure at 1.8 is great but everytime i hit the photo button i get a blinking red camera in the lower left of my lcd. No exposure and shutter info is displayed. Does anyone know what that means. I do have a sd card in the slot

RTFM IRT "Still Image Simultaneous Recording".

[Rumpelgeist]

Year and a half has passed and people still cannot get it. The lens has variable speed, f/1.8-f/3.0. Want to make sure you NEVER get gain then use f/3.2 and relax. Want to make sure you NEVER get gain in FULL WIDE then use f/2.0 and relax. Want to pull the last quarter-stop out of your camera instead of doing the right thing and adding more light, then feel free to jiggle with the joystick to find a position where aperture does not get wider anymore when you click right but gets lower when you click left, this will be the widest aperture for current zoom with no gain.

All the crap with phone light or keychain light or any other super-duper $19.95 light made out of a rusty soup can and a 1.5V lightbulb is just to reach the no-gain zone because in low light you will have only 11 EV steps down and no steps up. Each step is 1/4 of f-stop. Each f-stop is equal to 6dB of gain. 11/4 * 6 = 16.5dB, while the HV can ramp up gain as high as 27dB. The "tricks" with lights mean to bring the otherwise unaccessible EV range of lower gain, but I don't think that shooting with zero gain in a room which otherwise would be shot at 27dB would yield any decent picture (unless you shoot something like fireworks, but there is a mode for that).

[Paul Tarlevs]

!!!!!!!!!

Noone answers my questions anymore...

How come when I do this trick with the cellphone, I go outside and it is soo bright the screen is white.






Does that mean you can't do this outdoors?

[Ian-T]

The problem (as I see it) Aramis..is that ...there are many folks who will just never "get it" as simple as maybe..you or me. We have to consider our audience. Some are hooked on phonics some not... So often times you have to augment your instructions to a lower level..... For example: This is precisely why our broadcast news reads the news to us on a 5th to 8th grade level.... This helps to ensure "most people" get the same understanding from the information given to us. Everyone is not "edumicated" the same..

[Ian-T]

!!!!!!!!!
Noone answers my questions anymore...

How come when I do this trick with the cellphone, I go outside and it is soo bright the screen is white.
Does that mean you can't do this outdoors?

LOl...Paul you're killing me...lol The trick is not needed outdoors...or in good lighting situations. It is meant only for badly lit situations.....

[Paul Tarlevs]

The problem (as I see it) Aramis..is that ...there are many folks who will just never "get it" as simple as maybe..you or me. We have to consider our audience. Some are hooked on phonics some not... So often times you have to augment your instructions to a lower level..... For example: This is precisely why our broadcast news reads the news to us on a 5th to 8th grade level.... This helps to ensure "most people" get the same understanding from the information given to us. Everyone is not "edumicated" the same..

So can you answer my question?

When I do it with the cellphone, I go outside and it's sooo white...

Is this meant for outdoors?

[Paul Tarlevs]

LOl...Paul you're killing me...lol The trick is not needed outdoors...or in good lighting situations. It is meant only for badly lit situations.....

OMFG!!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!! You answered my question after trying this trick for like an hour....


But anyway, Should I turn on the cellphone screen and press the photo button halfway and when i see it turn to f1.8 immediately lock it?

And then change exposure to my liking as long as the aperture stays at f1.8?

Because when it's at zero, I can go all the way up to +11 and as low as like -6 and it stays at f1.8.


So if I did this right, then I have offically finished my homework and now I can go and film a little outdoor test.

LOL.


Thanks Ian-T.


I hope you read this and answer me. LOL. I might even do my own grade 5 level tutorial.

[Ian-T]

I basically answered your current question in post #32

*click to the left several times untikl you get to the very 1st f 1.8.... That's the only "true" f 1.8 setting... all the others will add gain to your footage *

[Paul Tarlevs]

I basically answered your current question in post #32

*click to the left several times untikl you get to the very 1st f 1.8.... That's the only "true" f 1.8 setting... all the others will add gain to your footage *

Ohhhhh right...thanks man I owe you one...now I've done my homework and now i'm gonna go film a little "first time" test although I got it like three days ago.

[pwrlogic]

Hello
i was able to lock exposure in cine mode but i could not get the shutter to 1/48. in fact even in shutter mode the selections do not offer 1/48.
15,30,60,100 and so forth.
is there a way to get the shutter to 1/48 in cine mode.
Thanks

[Rumpelgeist]

i was able to lock exposure in cine mode but i could not get the shutter to 1/48. in fact even in shutter mode the selections do not offer 1/48.
15,30,60,100 and so forth. is there a way to get the shutter to 1/48 in cine mode.

http://www.elurauser.com/articles/ca...mode_table.jsp

[pwrlogic]

ok thanks aramis.
I got to be in pf24 mode.
great!!!

[oddmanil]

I couldn't figure out how to quote from another tread, this is written by Halso in the tread "What is cinemode".

Quote:
"i think TV mode with a mini sd card u will know the iris setting, and if u worry about the gain issue. use the lens cap and set exposure , then tick back 11 steps. thats 1/50sec with max aperture at 0gain.
then use a ND or dual polariser to adjust expsure to whatever u fit."

This is exactly what i often do with cinemode... 11 ticks in 25p or 7 ticks in 50i will give you the 1/50, f1.8, 0db combo (PAL). Combined with dual polarizers the camera is very controllable this way, as long as there's enough light.

NOTE!! Contrary to what you think, this trick does NOT work with TV mode - you will end up with 12 dB of gain (just checked with HDV Data Monitor). It ONLY works in cine mode.

[CWildenradt]

Hello
i was able to lock exposure in cine mode but i could not get the shutter to 1/48. in fact even in shutter mode the selections do not offer 1/48.
15,30,60,100 and so forth.
is there a way to get the shutter to 1/48 in cine mode.
Thanks

This is what I do to enjoy quite a range of controllable exposure with the camera locked in at 1/48.

Firstly, I took a picture of a blank, white sheet of paper on my cell phone. The picture was taken in "moderate" or "normal" lighting conditions. With the HV30 set to 24p cinemode and zoomed all the way out, I cover the lens with the cell phone picture and initiate the exposure lock. The way my cell phone works, initially the picture will show up fully backlit and after a few seconds it dims slightly (most phones work this way). I mostly use the dimmed picture as my basis because the fully backlit one is too bright to get a good exposure range for indoor shooting.

This technique yields the following exposure settings for me:

-11: f5.6 1/48
-10: f5.6 1/48
-9: f5.6 1/48
-8: f5.6 1/48
-7: f4.8 1/48
-6: f4.8 1/48
-5: f4.0 1/48
-4: f4.0 1/48
-3: f3.4 1/48
-2: f3.4 1/48
-1: f2.8 1/48
0: f2.8 1/48
1: f2.6 1/48
2: f2.4 1/48
3: f2.2 1/48
4: f2.0 1/48
5: f1.8 1/48

Thanks to using the cell phone, this range is fully repeatable any time I use it. 6-11 changes the shutter speed which is why I didn't include them in the range. The shutter speed goes to 1/30 for 6 and 7, and then to 1/24 for 8-11.

For outdoor shooting on bright days, I sometimes use the cell phone picture technique; but with the picture fully backlit. This actually locks in 1/48 for the full range -11 thru 11. The difference is that at 11, the aperture is at f2.2.

[zephyrnoid]

So funny! I make my living in an obscure but fast growing industry. Human Factors and Ergonomics- The business of bringing ease-of-use and clarity to the quagmire of obfuscation that is modern day 'technology'. I won't make this response a lecture on that, but trust me when I say that +90% of technology has a usability quotient of just 20%. That means that roughly 70% of technology is barely usable! The HV20 (many electronic devices suffer from the same issues) has all these hidden capabilities that are not even addressed in a manual that most people already don't read or when they do, barely understand. So here we are, a large community dedicated to sharing knowledge about just the HV20/HV30 and yes, after 1.5 years and millions of words on just the one topic of controlling the exposure so as to achieve shallow depth of field and minimized gain... after all that, not ONE post actually conveys the process in a comprehensible and easily repeatable fashion. But that's OK because I get paid for doing that. I've waited this long to see if a single post emerges to fulfill the requirements. I'll be tackling this issue shortly (and for free) since I can use it as a citation.
Please don't take it as an insult that this is necessary- nor should the well intentioned folks that 'get it' feel bad that 95% of readers 'don't get it'. You now know it's pervasive in our technocentric society.

To learn more about the science of which I speak, feel free to google thse key words: Usability, Human Factors, Ease of Use, Instructional Design, Human Technology Performance Optimization, User Centered Design, Jakob Nielsen, Alan Cooper, Don Norman.

The problem (as I see it) Aramis..is that ...there are many folks who will just never "get it" as simple as maybe..you or me. We have to consider our audience. Some are hooked on phonics some not... So often times you have to augment your instructions to a lower level..... For example: This is precisely why our broadcast news reads the news to us on a 5th to 8th grade level.... This helps to ensure "most people" get the same understanding from the information given to us. Everyone is not "edumicated" the same..

[Arla]

So here we are, a large community dedicated to sharing knowledge about just the HV20/HV30 and yes, after 1.5 years and millions of words on just the one topic of controlling the exposure so as to achieve shallow depth of field and minimized gain... after all that, not ONE post actually conveys the process in a comprehensible and easily repeatable fashion.

I think it's been posted numerous times, heck there is even a video of how to do it, a good number of which (I find) understandable and repeatable, I'll be interested to see your take on it as to make it easy for the "general public" although honestly, this isn't something I think general public should be doing.

[zephyrnoid]

To me there is no "general public" . There is only the community of users that include everyone from rank amateur to seasoned pro that put down their money for the camera and later... thousands of dollars more to squeeze every drop of goodness out of it. Like I said. I'll be parsing all the great facts into the mother of tutorials. And yes, I have read ALL the posts and looked at the videos too. Nothing like that will be delivered by me or my team.

I think it's been posted numerous times, heck there is even a video of how to do it, a good number of which (I find) understandable and repeatable, I'll be interested to see your take on it as to make it easy for the "general public" although honestly, this isn't something I think general public should be doing.