Removing Pulldown AFTER Editing Using CS3

[Max Goldberg]

I've discovered a really convenient way to edit and remove pulldown with Premiere and After Effects! (Well, maybe I wasn't the first, but I didn't find it here, so I'm posting it. Sorry if it's been done.) This may also be possible using Final Cut and After Effects, but you need a program to convert the project file to one that After Effects can read.

I start by capturing all the footage using HDVSplit. Then I make a new 60i project in Premiere and edit. After that, I save the project and close Premiere. I then import the project into After Effects, and use the script Homotech made for automatically removing pulldown to remove the pulldown. Next, I change the composition settings from 29.96fps to 23.976fps and I'm done. After that, I can color correct or add visual effects.

The advantage with using this method is that you don't risk lowing the quality by removing pulldown and then editing, and you don't fill up hard drive space with the large files created while removing pulldown. Also, editing the 60i footage in Premiere, while sometimes distracting, is much easier because the m2t files made with HDVsplit don't have to be rendered to play smoothly! That way you can be sure the edit looks good, and you can save a lot of time.

The only problem I can think of is that if you're editing very precisely, frames might be lost from the pulldown, because you might be cutting on a frame that is interlaced... I think. I can't really explain this. If anyone can tell me if this is indeed a problem, it would be nice.

Happy editing!
Max

[Kyleman]

Or you could use Adobe Dynamic Link. If you don't have Dynamic Link I think there is a tool you can buy that can do this. Maybe someone can verify that?


-Kyle

[Max Goldberg]

Is Dynamic Link for transferring from Premiere to After Effects, or for actually removing the pulldown?

I think there's a program called Automatic Duck that can put Final Cut projects into After Effects.

The reason this way works though is that even though you're cutting the clips, After Effects still imports the uncut clips, and can find the cadence to remove the pulldown. If you just import the already cut clips, it wouldn't work. I just rendered a short test and it looks good. Not any better than removing pulldown and then editing, but the whole process of editing and rendering took like 20 minutes.

EDIT: Strange, I can't get sound to work... I'll keep trying. I knew it was too good to be true.

[Kyleman]

What I do is take all of my captured footage into After Effects, then I remove the pulldown. Let's just say my projects name is "Test", I will save my After Effects project with the name "Test Pulldown" (The "Pulldown" after the name is so I wont get After Effects Projects mixed up later). Then I open up my After Effects project in Premiere. I usually have to go back In After Effects to do some VFX work, you can make a new After Effects composition in Premiere (it will open in After Effects with all of your edited footage). The only downfall to this method is, it wont import Titles, and it won't import adjusted audio levels that you might have made in Premiere. So I usually just export a uncompressed movie after I'm done editing and open that up in After Effects. Really, it's hard to get a nice workflow without having to export huge files. It can be done with this method, but it's a pain. Not only you can easily get very confused by mixing up projects, but forget which projects use certain files, etc.


-Kyle

[DFv2]

I was under the impression that AE couldnt properly guess the pulldown of a trimmed clip? This was why you need to capture the scene separately because AE only takes a stab at the pulldown, which works for the FIRST scene everytime but funks up after that (if you had 2+ scenes in one footage file).

[Max Goldberg]

The clip is trimmed, but After Effects imports the untrimmed clip and puts it in the project bin. When you remove the pulldown from the project bin, it affects the video in the timeline.

[DFv2]

Ahh I see, thanks for clearing that up.

[lordtangent]

This is a great workflow. I have to give it a try. The only thing I suspect might be a little sub-optimal is that you probably lose the videos super-whites going though After Effects (because of the way it converts YCbCr to R'G'B'.) But it's still a very "compact" and straight forward work flow!

[Max Goldberg]

Wow I never realized that this was stickied! Cool!

I'm still using this workflow, and it's working fine. I haven't noticed any degrading of quality, but I'm not that great at looking for that anyway.

[craig198]

why not just use hdsplit and eugenias tool? hv20.msi or something like that.

[lordtangent]

With this work flow you don't need to remove pull down until AFTER you edit. Hence you save a lot of disk space and rendering time. The unique thing about this work flow vs. the plethora of "I can remove pull down after editing!!!" that have come before is that this work flow doesn't screw up when the cadence of the pull down changes as it still removes the pull down clip by clip.

Another positive side effect, IMHO, is that you end up in After Effects, which is a great place to do a final color grade!

[Dleo]

What about sound when you remove pulldown, does it go out of sync. And if it does whats the work AROUND

dLEO

[Max Goldberg]

Another positive side effect, IMHO, is that you end up in After Effects, which is a great place to do a final color grade!

Yeah exactly. It's really convenient.

What about sound when you remove pulldown, does it go out of sync. And if it does whats the work AROUND

dLEO

I haven't noticed any audio out of sync. The clips aren't getting shorter. Plus, you can render from After Effects without sound, and then put it back in using Premiere.

[symphy]

So, After Effects actually does remove the pulldown only from the part of the timeline that it's needed for in this workflow? Meaning, if I have a 10 minute clip and I'm only using 1 minute of it, After Effects doesn't have to remove pulldown of the entire 10 minute clip first, but only of the 1 minute section I placed into the timeline when it was still in Premiere?

Also -- this workflow assumes you captured the footage as 24p in the HV20/30, right?

[d1rockwild]

What I do is take all of my captured footage into After Effects, then I remove the pulldown. Let's just say my projects name is "Test", I will save my After Effects project with the name "Test Pulldown" (The "Pulldown" after the name is so I wont get After Effects Projects mixed up later). Then I open up my After Effects project in Premiere. I usually have to go back In After Effects to do some VFX work, you can make a new After Effects composition in Premiere (it will open in After Effects with all of your edited footage). The only downfall to this method is, it wont import Titles, and it won't import adjusted audio levels that you might have made in Premiere. So I usually just export a uncompressed movie after I'm done editing and open that up in After Effects. Really, it's hard to get a nice workflow without having to export huge files. It can be done with this method, but it's a pain. Not only you can easily get very confused by mixing up projects, but forget which projects use certain files, etc.


-Kyle

wait so whats your critique on the workflow of the original post?

[d1rockwild]

should i expect to see anything load or any visual to know the script worked? When i open up the jsx, nothing appears to happen, so i dont know if i did it right....and my effects appear to be disabled....

[Dleo]

So, After Effects actually does remove the pulldown only from the part of the timeline that it's needed for in this workflow? Meaning, if I have a 10 minute clip and I'm only using 1 minute of it, After Effects doesn't have to remove pulldown of the entire 10 minute clip first, but only of the 1 minute section I placed into the timeline when it was still in Premiere?

Also -- this workflow assumes you captured the footage as 24p in the HV20/30, right?

YEP!!!

and YEP!!! -- got to shoot in 24p

[sdeming]

What am I doing wrong? Shouldn't all of my clips show up, not just the sequence? When I try and run the script, nothing happens...It's worked before on individual files so I know it works.

Here's a screen shot of my workspace:

[sdeming]

???

[sdeming]

Ok, got it.

File/Import/Adobe Premiere Pro Project

Before I was just going File/Import/File (pressing ctrl+I) and it just showed up as a seqence with no clips. But I went on line, and found out what I was doing wrong. I'm totally new to the Adobe World. I used to edit on Vegas, but then my wife is a photographer so we got CS4. And now I'm hooked.

[drakos1774]

Hello, i tried very hard to remove the pulldown from my videos, but no matter what combinations of project settings and pulldown settings i used, i couldn t get it to work.
But
the other day i found out that...
1. Working with the 24f preset in premiere. Importing the m2t file without any pulldown removal consideration.
2. Opening the sequence in after effects using adobe dynamic link
3. Making any change in colors or anything in after effects

the files watched in premiere are now fully deinterlaced. I did not notice any artifacts or any interlacing. And when exporting it s also fine.
Although the same file, without opening after effects has some pulldown signs, the file, when used with after effects is just perfect back in premiere.

I don t know what is happening, i m pretty sure that it has to do with the sequence properties i open in after effects (the 24f preset) and that through adobe dynamic link, premiere now knows how to treat the file correctly.

I hope this post helps you guys!

[richied913]

I followed the steps and when I view the video there are black frames in between each cut. I selected files in the project window, ran the script and render to QT photo JPEG and it makes funny cuts.

EDIT: Okay, weird. I tried again but this time I changed the frame rates and comp settings before actually opening the compsequence and now it didn't put any transparency between cuts.

[crobs808]

Um, disabling pulldown to simulate film is already built into premiere. You don't need to go thru all those steps, lol. Look here...

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Premiere...AC846BF60.html

Of course, all the people shooting 24p are ridiculous, because it is pointless if your work is never going to be transferred to film. 24p on any digital/consumer camera is just fake. There is no point in shooting 24p unless you just like bad pans and jittery effect.

[Frank]

There is no point in shooting 24p unless you just like bad pans and jittery effect.

Sure there is; it looks better. Of course, it's a matter of personal taste, but then again what isn't?
Thanks for the PPRO tip, by the way.

[Ian-T]

Um, disabling pulldown to simulate film is already built into premiere. You don't need to go thru all those steps, lol. Look here...

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Premiere...AC846BF60.html
.

...no disrspect...but you have a ton of reading to do. You are wrong on all accounts (except for the choppy pan part).

The one thing most HV20/30 users know is that the Pulldown method used in these cams are unique compared to other cams that use pulldown. This is why people came up with several third party methods to remove it. Even Premiee has a template that involves using the Cineform codec because Premiere can not do it on its own. That link you provided is more for cams like the DVX etc., that also uses pulldown.....but not exactly like the Canon.

The only software (I believe) that can do this is After Effects....but very slowly...and time consuming.

Edit: Also...24p has nothing to do with going to film. It's all about a look and feel to the footage. 60i looks totally different and videoy than 24p. They should OUTLAW it.