The commercial Stablizer/Steadycam Thread (no DIY here)

[Igor Babic]

Tomislav always has a good eye for music videos. I will let him know you like it guys.

Here are pictures of this mod. Original plate is screwed with only one screw to a top of a stick. I have change it with similar screw but with different type of head. I have also make some adjustment to a hole in a manfrotto long plate holder to acomodate this screw and that it not interfere with sliding plate. Another mod is grinding a piece of handle that tightens front-back sliding plate so it will not interfere with adjusting left-right sliding plate. This is couple of minutes work with right tools and some DIY kraft. I will also post pictures of positions that I have moded, sorry I have done this year a go so when I started to wright this I have seen that this can be troublesome for non DIY guys...

[Crosby!]

Here are pictures of this mod. Original plate is screwed with only one screw to a top of a stick. I have change it with similar screw but with different type of head. I have also make some adjustment to a hole in a manfrotto long plate holder to acomodate this screw and that it not interfere with sliding plate. Another mod is grinding a piece of handle that tightens front-back sliding plate so it will not interfere with adjusting left-right sliding plate. This is couple of minutes work with right tools and some DIY kraft. I will also post pictures of positions that I have moded, sorry I have done this year a go so when I started to wright this I have seen that this can be troublesome for non DIY guys...

Okay, I see what you did. Used a less expensive sliding QR instead of the micro positioning plates. Nice idea. Are you using the Manfrotto Rapid Connect Adapter with Sliding Mounting Plate 357PL (Manfrotto #357 works, too)? Used to be the #3273 according to my search, $50 each (U.S.).



Are you just pushing/pulling to make adjustments? I don't see any knobs other than the tighten one.

I was looking at 4-way macro focus rails. One advantage of the rails, like the micro positioning stages, is that they're geared (rack and pinon) on the bottom and you turn the knob to change the settings and can lock the position:



Disadvantage is the height...I think. The 4-way focus rails are only $60-70 (U.S.). Add a quick release and you have a small building to juggle.



-

[Igor Babic]

On your first picture is what I have used. I have also move gimbal almost 2cm up to gain more counter weight to a camera(we have used heavy cameras all the time). Front-back sliding plate is what I am using for quick release. This is not ideal, you have to make markings where it was before you remove it. I have no knobs on this plates for fine adjustment but when you first try it you will figure it out quickly how to do it and its no big deal. On original head plate we found that this is so troublesome that we have to change it. I dont know how people use it in original config...

Sorry no more pics for now, my rig has gone to a shooting this morning.

[Crosby!]

I couldn't find the JR Lite either, I bought the JR with the monitoer and removed it.

You also can mount it to your tripod...

Why not put the quick release on the top of your Steadicam JR where you connect the camera and then take the camera off the JR and put it on the tripod alone?

[Crosby!]

Finally got the Steadicam JR at the weekend and took this test video: http://www.vimeo.com/1419870

The JR is a professional piece of kit that dates back to 90's. The gimbal will take some getting use to, I truly think I made a great investment...

Video looks pretty good, granted I'm dizzy now.

I assume you have it dynamically balanced and have done the drop test, etc. Time to get out of the kitchen and go for a walk. I like going places with pillars or other close verticals so I can easily see what's happening. My last test with my weighted monopod looked like I was in an earthquake.

[Crosby!]

On your first picture is what I have used. I have also move gimbal almost 2cm up to gain more counter weight to a camera(we have used heavy cameras all the time).

Interesting, I didn't know the gimbal could be moved. I've read where it takes 10-15 minutes to rebalance it before use with the original head plate. Since you use a variety of cameras on it I'd guess that you have to make quite a few adjustments with each camera change. I assume that you have the various positions marked to speed up the process. I'd think that something with scales on it that you could keep the positions of in a log would make it even easier.

Front-back sliding plate is what I am using for quick release. This is not ideal, you have to make markings where it was before you remove it.

How accurate are you finding sliding the camera back to the previous marking? Are you having to adjust and recheck the dynamic balance?

I have no knobs on this plates for fine adjustment but when you first try it you will figure it out quickly how to do it and its no big deal. On original head plate we found that this is so troublesome that we have to change it. I dont know how people use it in original config...

Especially changing cameras like you do and having to change the mount hole, fore/aft and side/side slides. I see why it can take so long. I plan to use one setup on mine, HV30 and Sony 0.7x lens, that should lessen the rebalancing.

Sorry no more pics for now, my rig has gone to a shooting this morning.

Busy rig!

Thanks.

-

[Igor Babic]

We dont change type of camera, we decide what camera will be on a steady, and make adjustments to it. It is easy to balance them with manfrotto plate. You only have one knob and you can regulate friction with it. If you dont hit your mark it is not so hard to adjust again.

All those cameras are in same weight range so you dont need to rebalance weight.

Main problem with original plate is that you have to fully dismount it to attach camera, this plate is connected on his sides with 4 thumb crews to a lower part of head plate. With this screws you are making front/back adjustment and every time that you try to move it goes to far, so its neverending story to adjust it. Lower part of head plate has also 4 thumb screws an they are on the bottom that adjust left/right balance and this is same story. And if you dont use some kind of quick release on top of it you cant move to your tripod because you have very big chunk of aluminum attached to your camera and you have to rebalance it again when you go back to steady.

With hv20/30 and only light wide angle lens you will not have much of adjustment problems. Biggest problem is that this is to heavy rig for light camera. But when you move to A1, you dont have to upgrade...and you will have great arm muscles.

[Crosby!]

Just ran across Charles Papert's demo reels again and watched them. If you really want to see some nice Steadicam work, watch them.

-

[Crosby!]

We dont change type of camera, we decide what camera will be on a steady, and make adjustments to it. It is easy to balance them with manfrotto plate. You only have one knob and you can regulate friction with it. If you dont hit your mark it is not so hard to adjust again.

Good to know, thanks.

Main problem with original plate is that you have to fully dismount it to attach camera, this plate is connected on his sides with 4 thumb crews to a lower part of head plate. With this screws you are making front/back adjustment and every time that you try to move it goes to far, so its neverending story to adjust it. Lower part of head plate has also 4 thumb screws an they are on the bottom that adjust left/right balance and this is same story.

I noticed that unless you buy the upper end versions you don't get an easy way to adjust them. A shame. Should be an accessory at least. Here's the one on the Glidecam Gold sled:

And if you dont use some kind of quick release on top of it you cant move to your tripod because you have very big chunk of aluminum attached to your camera and you have to rebalance it again when you go back to steady.

Yes, a quick release is a necessary item. I standardized on one and it's one all my cameras, tripods, etc.

With hv20/30 and only light wide angle lens you will not have much of adjustment problems. Biggest problem is that this is to heavy rig for light camera.

My wide angle lens is a bit on the heavy side, at 15oz. (418 grams), hoping it balances well.

...and you will have great arm muscles.

[scon]

Video looks pretty good, granted I'm dizzy now.

I assume you have it dynamically balanced and have done the drop test, etc. Time to get out of the kitchen and go for a walk. I like going places with pillars or other close verticals so I can easily see what's happening. My last test with my weighted monopod looked like I was in an earthquake.

Hey Visorblue - I'm not sure if I got the dynamic balance correct!! The drop test, do I need to go to the Doctor's...

I took up the challenge tonight and got outside with the Steadicam JR, but I also took some shots using a dolly, bean bag and tripod.

Only 38 seconds of film....

http://www.vimeo.com/1439347

[Crosby!]

Hey Visorblue - I'm not sure if I got the dynamic balance correct!! The drop test, do I need to go to the Doctor's...

Yep. Do that first.

I took up the challenge tonight and got outside with the Steadicam JR, but I also took some shots using a dolly, bean bag and tripod.

My first thought, "Wow. Check out the smooth...oh wait, that's his dolly shot."

A little bit wobble but that's only noticeable because I'm looking for it. Looking pretty good. Waiting to see some more.

Also, I want to see your kid's SAG card.

[charly]

Hi guys,

I've just tried this cheap solution.

No bad on first feeling. Of course need big practice, but who doesn't need so even on a USD1200 Flycam6000.

2 things before you play the film:

- as my HV30 will be with me in 10days only, camcoder is an old D8 DCR-TRV 120E
- no Wide lens.

Last seconds are showing a natural left-right and up-down movement fade-out after I pushed the tripod with one finger left then down.

Now, I need to find a handle 'cause holding this with two fingers was a pain ...

http://vimeo.com/1449913

[Crosby!]

The new to me Glidecam 1000 arrived yesterday.



It was interesting that it had six of the eight thumb screws and three of them weren't even the right ones. A trip to a hardware store and a session on a grinder (what they had was too long) solved that. With that behind me I went through the instructions on balancing it using a flat level surface. Got that pretty well.

Then I went through adjusting the weight until I got a decent drop test (a little over 2-seconds). Noticed that there's an occasional a bit of a stickiness in the handle I'll have to figure out and fix. Made a PDQ offset adapter for a light stand using some PVC I had lying around to allow the rig to be put on the light stand for balancing. Wow, that made things easier.



Added a quick release adapter that has front/back and side/side bubble levels. Going to experiment with leveling the bubbles as a way of balancing to see how that works.



Took the setup out for a test today turning on the white level Marker to use as a guide. Set the rig down on a level surface, picked it up and it looked level but there was a slight spin to the left that I corrected for with my guide hand. I aimed the center point in the Marker at a pole and started walking, knees slightly bent, heel to toe. I couldn't believe how hard it was keeping the point on the pole. I was constantly correcting and over-correcting.

Looking at the footage it looks like it would have been a decent session if I hadn't keep correcting. Any tips?

Also, noticed that my hand was tired, not my wrist. Thinking I may be holding too tightly and my arms not limp enough to let things flow. Suggestions?

Thanks.

[thirdflr]

where did u get that glidecam 1000 pro.....it is not even on their website?

[Crosby!]

where did u get that glidecam 1000 pro.....it is not even on their website?

Stumbled on it on ebay. There was another, newer version, of it listed that looks more like a Glidecam 2000.



Found out that Glidecam even had a wood model.

[scon]

Yep. Do that first.



My first thought, "Wow. Check out the smooth...oh wait, that's his dolly shot."

A little bit wobble but that's only noticeable because I'm looking for it. Looking pretty good. Waiting to see some more.

Also, I want to see your kid's SAG card.

My kid's SAG is in the mail, should be with us any day now...


Im trying to use the JR for at least 30 mins a day, just to get the feel, no film. Will shoot some more at the weekend!!!

I love this thread...

[scon]

Stumbled on it on ebay. There was another, newer version, of it listed that looks more like a Glidecam 2000.



Found out that Glidecam even had a wood model.

I looked at these on the bay...

[Crosby!]

Just found this helpful set of instructions for fixing a non-linear gimbal.

[Crosby!]

I looked at these on the bay...

I'd never heard of them before. Got mine cheap as it was a bad ad in the wrong category and I was the only bidder. The other one went pretty cheap, too.

[Crosby!]

Im trying to use the JR for at least 30 mins a day, just to get the feel, no film. Will shoot some more at the weekend!!!

Ambitious. Totally understand the no tape practice.

There's a Glidecam thread if you scroll down you'll see a picture of a guy walking toward a "+" on a wall. Read the text right above it and add that to your daily exercises with the JR.

I'm finding that I'm over-correcting when I center something like a pole in the center of the HV30's Marker and walk toward it. I want to learn to stop doing that. Develop a lighter touch, too.

I want to learn to fly down a long empty hallway, float up flights of stairs (editing out the sound of me being out of breath) without being more worried of tripping and falling, breaking me and/or the camera. Learn to do some crane like shots... I might even rig up an inverted adapter so I can skim the ground. Fun!

Learning to shoot like Charles Papert would be seriously cool -- I can dream.

[scon]

Hey Visorblue,

Thanks for the link, the + on the wall works well. Infact after trying it out, I realized how far out my setup is from being balanced perfectly.

Long story short, I didn't have the correct setup block or weights. I have ordered the JR setup kit from B&H, should be here Monday.

Your comments and posts are much appreciated.

Top thread...

[Crosby!]

Thanks for the link, the + on the wall works well. Infact after trying it out, I realized how far out my setup is from being balanced perfectly.

Glad it helped, that's an exercise I plan to do a lot myself.

Your samples looked pretty good unbalanced, I expect perfection once you get it fully balanced.

One advantage to the JR (and Merlin) is optional one-handed operation.

When I sold my JR and JR Lite (no gimbal on the Lite) I had a bunch of extra weights (even a few battery shaped ones), blocks, etc. Liked the easy fore/aft and side/side adjustments.

The new handle for my Glidecam 1000 should be here next week and I'm looking forward to it. Granted, kills my excuse that the sticking handle caused the unsteadiness. No problem, I'll think of another excuse.

[PeterC]

Charles Papert is an awesome dude... skilled and always willing to share his expertise. Search and read ALL of his posts at dvinfo and you will learn a lot and be a much better steadicam operator. I think his rig is worth more than my house! Yikes!

I am using the Indicam Pilot. You can buy the sled only for $475. Looks similar to a Glidecam but that's about where any similarity ends. The Indicam is CNC machined, will not have the non-linear gimbal problem, has an easy camera plate adjustment system, and has an adjustable gimbal that you can slide up and down the center post to easily set your balance point and get your desired drop time really fast.

All of the steadicam shots on my website are with the Indicam.

[Crosby!]

I'm of the opinion that Charles Papert could take my Glidecam 1000 and make it look like an expensive rig shot it. Another one of those "it's not the equipment, it's the person using it" things.

I am using the Indicam Pilot. You can buy the sled only for $475.

I agree, Indicam is a brand to consider. Judging by all the nice work I've seen with low-end Glidecams and other units, I'm not sure a CNC milled bearing housing is a necessity, looks cool and bullet-proof though. Looks heavy, too.



I like the adjustable gimbal position feature of the Indicam sled, adds one more variable to balancing but it adds options, too. Their balancing the 1/2-pound digital still camera and shooting video with it was cool. Seems that their sled will balance the lightest cameras from any commercial product I've seen.

The eights screws vs. two wing nuts part I don't know about yet. They don't show how the unit adjusts. With the Glidecams that have the thumb screws you can adjust the front/back or side/side separately, without affecting the other. Unless I'm wrong, and I've been wrong before, with the two wing nuts it seems like you can screw up an already adjusted position. Please correct me on this and post a picture or two to help me and others understand.

Indicam's site isn't the easiest to navigate and they don't show much in the way of details (like how the the two wing nuts work), if you don't scroll down on the first page and just go to the "Sled for camera" page that low rez 3D stuff there won't help you. There's no info on the sled there. How do you know what you're getting from their site? Didn't see down-loadable manuals either. Clicked on the PDF icon (cryptic but I knew what it was) and got the same text that's on the page in a PDF file.

The Descreet Vest looks interesting, not sure I like the springs being on the outside on their arms though -- been pinched a few too many times by springs in my life. Looks like you could get a spring caught on something and ruin the shot and your day. On the other hand, their sample footage looks pretty good and I love that they created a training steadycam training video.

All of the steadicam shots on my website are with the Indicam.

What's the link to your site so we can check out the footage?

[PeterC]

I'm of the opinion that Charles Papert could take my Glidecam 1000 and make it look like an expensive rig shot it. Another one of those "it's not the equipment, it's the person using it" things.

I agree with you 100%! He has the knowledge, the skill, and the tools (most likely due to his having the knowledge and skill). He could take a monopod and make it look better than most people's Glidecam shots

I agree, Indicam is a brand to consider. Judging by all the nice work I've seen with low-end Glidecams and other units, I'm not sure a CNC milled bearing housing is a necessity, looks cool and bullet-proof though. Looks heavy, too.

A lot of frustration with Glidecam users comes from the fact that they can't get the sled to balance properly. This is because the yoke isn't CNC'ed... so what happens is you get it balanced with the camera facing one way and then you pan the camera and the whole sled goes out of balance(!)

If you've ever seen a well balanced rig, you can easily see that even putting on or taking off the lens cap will throw the sled off balance. That's how precise steadicams need to be.

I like the adjustable gimbal position feature of the Indicam sled, adds one more variable to balancing but it adds options, too. Their balancing the 1/2-pound digital still camera and shooting video with it was cool. Seems that their sled will balance the lightest cameras from any commercial product I've seen.

Actually, it helps take away the difficulty in balancing.

With your sled, you want a drop time anywhere from 3-5 seconds (or more). The drop time is the time it takes for the sled to go from a horizontal position to its natural vertical position. The longer the drop time, the more "floaty" the rig is. The shorter the drop time, the more the sled acts like a pendulum but also helps if you have more external forces acting on the rig (like wind).

So take the Glidecam, for example. If you want a 3 second drop time, you have to take on or take off the weights at the bottom of the sled, rebalance, check the drop time, and adjust. You also have to keep the weights centered so that it doesn't throw the rig out of balance.

You get your Glidecam balanced perfectly but then you decide you need to add a wide angle lens to your camera or a light, or both... that's a balancing nightmare waiting to happen! Once you put on those accessories, most likely, your rig will be too top heavy and your Glidecam will naturally go upside-down. To counter balance it, you have to have more of the weights with you, unscrew the weights at the bottom, add them, rebalance, and adjust. To get it perfect with your new set up will take a long time and if you're in a run and gun situation, you'll probably would have missed the shot.

Eventually, you realize that it's easiest to just leave the camera the way it is and don't change the configuration, ever.

With an adjustable gimbal, like the Indicam, I like to have a heavier rig, as it helps get smoother shots due to increased inertia. I put the weights on, make sure they are centered, and I've never had to readjust the weights at the bottom of the sled.

So I get my drop time to 3 seconds with my setup. Throughout my shooting, I'll use different lenses and add a light on top of my camera when it gets dark, typically at wedding receptions.

The adjustment is simple. I just slide the gimbal up, check drop time. If the drop time is too fast, I can bring the gimbal down a little. If the drop time is too slow, I can raise the gimbal and get the precise drop time I want without ever having to carry around weights or touch the bottom weights.

Or so I'm indoors with a 3 second drop time but then have to go outside for the bride and groom's exit... but it's windy outside! I just slide my gimbal up to give me a shorter drop time and I'm set.

The eights screws vs. two wing nuts part I don't know about yet. They don't show how the unit adjusts. With the Glidecams that have the thumb screws you can adjust the front/back or side/side separately, without affecting the other. Unless I'm wrong, and I've been wrong before, with the two wing nuts it seems like you can screw up an already adjusted position. Please correct me on this and post a picture or two to help me and others understand.

Again, for me, it's about simplicity. With the Glidecam, there are 8 thumbscrews for adjusting the top plate, 4 for each of 2 axis of adjustment. So if you want to move the camera plate side to side, you have to unscrew 4 screws, adjust, and rescrew 4 screws. Same with moving the camera forwards and backwards. Not to mention that many people lose 1 or 2 screws and not realize it until later. The advantage is that you do adjust one axis without affecting the other.

With the Indicam, you have two wingnut screws that hold two plates together. When you loosen the 2 wingnuts, you can move the plate however you want and retighten it when it's positioned the way you want it. The adjustment is really easy and takes very little time and effort. For my use and needs, I like that it's so quick and easy to adjust.

Indicam's site isn't the easiest to navigate and they don't show much in the way of details (like how the the two wing nuts work), if you don't scroll down on the first page and just go to the "Sled for camera" page that low rez 3D stuff there won't help you. There's no info on the sled there. How do you know what you're getting from their site? Didn't see down-loadable manuals either. Clicked on the PDF icon (cryptic but I knew what it was) and got the same text that's on the page in a PDF file.

The Descreet Vest looks interesting, not sure I like the springs being on the outside on their arms though -- been pinched a few too many times by springs in my life. Looks like you could get a spring caught on something and ruin the shot and your day. On the other hand, their sample footage looks pretty good and I love that they created a training steadycam training video.

What's the link to your site so we can check out the footage?

I agree that the Indicam website is somewhat lacking and not very intuitive. If you have any questions with how it works or steadicam operation, you can contact the owner and inventor, Terry Thompson. He is super nice and was patient with all of my questions, which I assume would be hard to get when contacting the bigger companies. Since he designed it, he knows everything about it.

I also highly recommend his training video as it'll give you a head start in operating any steadicam device you decide to purchase. Pretty good bargain at $35.

My website is http://KairosWeddingFilms.com