She's 21 years old and was brought up to live and think on her own feet. I don't have a say in what she's doing anymore.Uh...her father?
Morale: Your understanding of morale might not be Bob's understanding. Bob's understanding might not be same as mine. We grew up in different cultures, and, therefore, have a different understanding. Now, which is the right one?
"It is dark the other side. Very dark!" - "Oh, shut up and eat your toast!"
...and the other options aren't natural and "product of thousands of years of human history"?Originally Posted by MalfunctioningHuman
What are they then? Unnatural products of ... ??
Bleh.
What size is your tin foil hat? Do you really think all the societies in the world are involved in a conspiracy to destroy families and alienate the children from their parents? Seriously? You are of course entitled to hold that belief, just like i'm entitled to hold a belief that your belief is a delusion ;-) The simple fact is, vast majority parents are not equipped to properly educate their children on their own.What you need to realize is that the states in civilized nations, in general, have encouraged this tendency towards the erosion of the traditional family unit. I already said before why that's so: The family unit and the state are in competition for the individual. If you have no meaningful family unit, an individual can be indoctrinated by the state far more easily, as the role of the parents in the child's education is greatly diminished. This fact is clearly visible in the U.S., and I suspect that is also the case in Finland. There is no better way to control society than to educate its children.
Err... the state gives tax breaks for family units, and you see that as the state preferring people who live outside families? Hello? Who should the money of people who die without relatives and without a testament go to, if not to the state? Church? Finally, who do you think the state is? Do you realize that the state is us, we are the state?Besides this, there are many other reasons why states prefer broken-up families: More individuals join the work force. This, along with the fact that the tax rates for individuals are higher than the tax rates for families, causes more money to go to the state. If an individual outside a family unit dies, their belongings often go to the state as well.
Well, this is pretty interesting...I'll be happy to discuss this in more detail if necessary.
Despite not being perfect, the world has indeed become a more enlightened place, and i see no end for that development, fortunately.Perhaps the disuasive aspect of nuclear weapons had something to do with it, as well. Or the consolidation of world powers into two well defined blocks (for the most part.) I think this period of relative calm will not last very long. The world hasn't become a more enlightened place despite what people like you might wish. Brutal times are ahead of us (again, I hope I'm wrong about this.)
We were talking about wars. Abortions have nothing to do with war casualties, you must agree with that, right?Again, this doesn't account for the number of Americans aborted (although I know that for you this statistical data is meaningless.)
Well, there are some rather crazy folks out there, some of them in leading positions. But are they crazy enough to start a nuclear war? Probably not.Like I said, as the technological threshold required to acquire weapons of mass destruction is lowered and more countries have arsenals of such weapons, the chances for a massive conflict increase exponentially. Somebody could easily build a mathematical model to show that it's just a matter of time before somone pushes "the red button" and disaster ensues.
Why? It seems the women enjoy what they do, their customers enjoy what they do, everyone's happy. What's disgusting about that?I find that really sad and disgusting, to be honest with you.
As said, i see it as a progress, a grey scale rather than an on-off thing. A fertilized egg definitely is not a human being yet. A newborn baby definitely is. Everything between is various degrees of humanhood, from very little in the first few weeks to almost complete in the last. If i was forced to draw a line, i would put it to the birth, because apart from the obvious thing of exiting the womb, that is when one becomes an individual that breathes on his/her own, has his/her own metabolism etc.They are simple enough if you establish a basic definition of what a human being is, grounded on logic. I'm still waiting for someone to provide a coherent definition of what a "human being" is which effectively excludes the fetus.
This is just one more demonstration that morale is relative. Both of us think the Nazis were wrong and their actions were appalling, but to (at least some of) them, it apparently was the proper thing to do.Yes, I know you don't. The Nazis didn't view Concentration Camps as places where murder was committed, but merely as a final solution to clean up German society of the Jewish scum.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
I'm not 100% certain of anything whatsoever. Including my own existence.
Not all events. Just the very extraordinary ones, the ones that defy laws of nature. And you know what - i think you should require it too, if you wish to defend them as historical facts.You expect events taking place 2000 years ago in a far out corner of the Roman Empire to have as much evidence as the moon landing in 1969, in an era of far greater technological advances? Really?
If you defend them as matters of faith, and accept that there's no actual evidence whatsoever to support these beliefs, that's fine. But if you take the route of defending them with logic and facts, you need to pony up convincing proof.
I think i already have, many times over.How about you compare the evidence for Alexander the Great ruling most of the known world with the evidence in the Bible instead? And, even then, you are comparing evidence for the greatest ruler the world had ever known with evidence for a simple man (from the point of view of the historians) who lived in a far out region of the empire. Do you really think the scarcity of evidence outside of biblical sources is inconsistent with what we would expect? Please, try to build a logical answer to this question.
Of course we have a better vantage point. They were uneducated and primitive men whose knowledge level was lower than a first class student of today. Superstitious beliefs were rampant in their society. Their contemporaries believed in Zeus. By your logic, that's convincing evidence that Zeus was real.The only reason you have more reason to doubt Jesus than you have to doubt Alexander the Great is due to the supernatural factor. Apparently contemporaries of Christ (direct witnesses) didn't have such troubles. Why do you think you are in a better vantage point after 2000 years and no direct knowledge of what happened than his Apostles?
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
Reading too much Descarte, huh?I'm not 100% certain of anything whatsoever. Including my own existence
"It is dark the other side. Very dark!" - "Oh, shut up and eat your toast!"
Oh but I HAVE analyzed appropriately given your sad lack of happy thoughts with regard to society. Again, please go back and re-read your words every time the topic of society comes up. What I get from YOUR words is that CLEARLY you're one of those people who don't fit in. You even asked about immigration to Canada! Now if I'm wrong about all this then the fault is YOURS for being so blatant about society's sore points and so non descriptive over its good ones.
BTW... you never answered my question.... should we all pick and choose the laws we agree with and sh*t on the rest of them?
That's because I truly don't see anything positive about your way of life. Religion (IMO) for the most part is a crutch for the weak and unstable.... for people who can't get along in society. It's a drug to you... an addiction... it has swallowed you up and taken you over. You are no longer an individual.... just a drone blindly chomping down anything the good book says, and some of you are wound up so tight that you can only wonder how bad the melt down will be if you ever go off. I don't mean this as an insult either and it is certainly not meant to be as such. It's simply the way I see people of your kind. You can not be trusted. You have a screw loose. Anybody who can actually state they put a fairy tale and an imaginary idol who has never once proven itself ahead of their own family (as Ian has stated) has got some serious problems.As you see, you have just as many negative things to say, it is just that the destinataries of your invectives are different than mine.
Funny... you sound very much like a heroin junky just before they shoot up.No, not really. Meditation and reflection actually allows you to be more objective. Perception is always tainted (in the sense that it is always a subjective image of reality) but by meditating, praying, and reflecting on God, on life, and on people, you give yourself a better chance to perceive the true aspect of reality.
LOL!!! Is that what you call sprouting off at the mouth while attempting to speak for "Most men"? It had NOTHING to do with free speech and EVERYTHING to do with a person (you) trying to invent facts from the air on how other people feel and do.It looks like you don't like freedom of speech very much.
But State and Government is the BASIS of a given society! A Government is elected by the people for the people. Now if you think your Government has forgotten this (and I don't blame you for these thoughts in the USA), then it's time to go, but reducing yourself to what amounts to a shot in the arm every 8 hours or so thereby sending you to your 'happy place'.... well.... you become just another heroin junky.Sorry if it seemed I only had bad things to say of society. I think most of it was directed against states and governments, not society itself.
Last edited by Bob Sanders; 2012 April 23rd at 05:21.
Oh I have no trouble believing Christ lived and died, even if it wasn't recorded. Every so often a Martin Luther King comes along who has that spark to capture people's imagination. But just like King, Christ was a simple man who died for the same reasons King did.... nothing more. The stories simply get blown out of proportion... an easy thing to do back then with the uneducated masses and lack of proper communication. The stories of healing with a touch..... probably pulled a thorn from some old man's foot and the story spent the next few decades being stretched and cannibalized. But rising from the dead.... come on... that's right up there with virgins giving birth! LOL
What I don't get is how you people can look at such incredible nonsense and say it's true and then turn around and call the tooth fairy just a story. How the heck does a rational human being come to believe in virgins giving birth and people rising from the dead??? What color is the sky in your world and what other more serious, scary and deadly ideas can you people believe in?
;-)
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
From the Huffington Post:
A new report released by NORC at the University of Chicago, “Beliefs About God Across Time And Countries” measures belief in God in 30 countries around the world, and how those beliefs in God have changed over time. The survey asked three questions to determine whether the respondents were atheists, agnostics, deists, waivers, weak believers, strong believers, whether their beliefs about God had changed over time, and whether they believe in a personal God.
One of the most interesting aspects of the report is the change in belief in God over time. Change in belief in God is measured by the difference of “current believers, former atheists” and “current atheists, former believers.” The report found that in 2008, Russia, Latvia and Slovenia showed the highest increase in belief in God, and the Netherlands, Spain and Australia showed the largest decrease in belief in God. Belief in God has increased in 12 countries, while belief in God has decreased in 17 countries. The average increase in belief in God is 4.1 points, while the average decrease in belief in God is 7.0 points. Overall, belief in God declined in these countries by 2.4 points.
Despite former Socialist countries Russia, Latvia and Slovenia showing greatest increases in belief in God, the researchers find that there in no general increase in belief in God in ex-Socialist states, which generally have high levels of atheism and low levels of strong belief.
While belief in God has decreased in most countries, researchers find that the shift is modest. The researchers suggest that it is equally possible that belief in God will continue to decline, or that belief in God will become more widespread as it has in Russia, Latvia and Slovenia. The paper in its entirely can be read here.
But when you did, did you telll her it was OK for her to be a hooker? And, when you say she was brought up to live and think on her own feet, does that mean you basically didn't play a very active part in her education?
Let me answer this with another question: According to Nazi Germany morals, it was OK to exterminate the Jews. According to U.S. 2012 morals, killing somebody based on their race is a crime. Now, which is the right one? Hopefully this question answers yours.
The disintegration of the family unit is a relatively new development, and it has brought nothing good to society. Please, tell me what (if any) positive aspects you see in it. Tell me how it isn't natural to have children be brought up in a family with a father and a mother.
Not all societies in the world are involved in a conspiracy. It is not even an explicit conspiracy, it is a little more insidious than that. The fact is that the forces of power (call them state, corporations, etc, which vary by country and period) prefer a society of individuals that can be easily manipulated. Manipulated to do certain things, behave certain ways, buy certain products, etc. Like I also said before, there is a clear benefit in having broken families to productivity, as more people join the work force. If you want an explicit conspiracy map you won't find it, but the developments we have seen in modern societies are not a product of chance.
Do you think the state is us? Really? Yes, that what it should ideally be, but are you really that naive? What happened when the huge multinational banks failed in 2008? They got bailed out with the money of everybody (the taxpayer.) What happened when John and Jane Smith lost their job and couldn't pay their mortgage? Exactly, now you got it. This is just a very simple example, and not even the most grievous one. The fact is that the state is not us, no matter how much you want to believe that.
The world has become better in some areas, and worse in others. It's tough to assign points and quantify whether the world has become better or worse. To me, a place where mass murder is justified based on convenience, for one, is not a very enlightened place.
Not casualties of war.
Probably. I definitely don't think that "probably" is a very reassuring word when we are talking about global nuclear war, don't you agree?
This go back to morality, which you tend to always think is relative. Depraved people can enjoy many different things. Does that make those things acceptable morally? I don't think so.
Why am I not allowed to sell a kidney if somebody needs one? I don't need more than 1 kidney to survive. Both I and the recipient would benefit (assuming I need the money.) Why not allow this, can you give me a good reason why this is any different from prostitution? As a matter of fact, in my opinion it is morally better than prostitution, because my kidney can actually save a life.
No, I don't think something is 45% human or 89% human, and only when it's 100% human it can be considered a human being whose life matters. What about somebody with some genetic abnormality? Are they 100% human?
You say it is relative, but it is not. That's your own problem.
You wanna hear something funny? Ive worked for the people responsible for bringing men to the moon for a number of years now and though I believe they went to the moon Im not 100% CERTAIN about it. Do you have firsthand accounts? Reports can always be falsified. So can TV documentaries.
If you think this is a play on words and that you can still claim certainty then you should not question my (or anyone elses ) experience when we say we know, with all certainty, that God exists. But if your next question to me is PROVE IT then Id have to ask you first.
No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life...Albert Einstein
Scientists, archaeologists, have proven the existence of Alexander the Great.
if you have the same evidence Jesus is God, feel free to provide it.
Your claim is the evidence is the same. It isn't.
"beautiful girls are the cheapest special effect"
- Roger Corman
I don't question that you BELIEVE Jesus God. You can BELIEVE in teh Great Pumpkin if you want, adn I wouldn't question that either. I do question you have the SAME SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE that jesus is god, as men landed on the moon.You wanna hear something funny? I’ve worked for the people responsible for bringing men to the moon for a number of years now and though I believe they went to the moon…I’m not 100% CERTAIN about it. Do you have firsthand accounts? Reports can always be falsified. So can TV documentaries.
If you think this is a play on words and that you can still claim certainty then you should not question my (or anyone else’s ) experience when we say we know, with all certainty, that God exists. But if your next question to me is PROVE IT then…I’d have to ask you first.
Yes. I'm 100% certain men landed on the moon. I have ZERO doubt.
If you have the exact same evidence Jesus is God, feel free to provide it. If you actually have that evidence, you will win a Nobel Peace Prize, be more famous than the Pope, and probably be elected supreme ruler of any Christian nation you choose.
Hell, even the Buddhists, Hindus, and Muslims might follow you if you truly have that sort of evidence.
If you believe something is falsified, it's up to you to show it is.
If you believe the footage of the men landing on the moon is fake, go right ahead and prove that.
When you do, again, you'll probably become rich and famous for breaking the story of the century.
Now, what evidence do you want me to look at?
Do you have something besides an anonymous story? IMO, Lord of the Rings doesn't prove Frodo threw the One Ring into Mt. Doom, and that story even has an author.
Seriously?
Men landing on the Moon, and Jesus is God, you think there's the same evidence, same scientific proof of both? Really?
Last edited by Gillvane; 2012 April 23rd at 15:08.
"beautiful girls are the cheapest special effect"
- Roger Corman
I think the positive aspects have been shown already: the freedom to leave an unhealthy marriage, the option to make a choice how your life. As said, divorce is often a blessing for everyone involved.
Not a product of a deliberate plan either. They are a product of cultural evolution.Not all societies in the world are involved in a conspiracy. It is not even an explicit conspiracy, it is a little more insidious than that. The fact is that the forces of power (call them state, corporations, etc, which vary by country and period) prefer a society of individuals that can be easily manipulated. Manipulated to do certain things, behave certain ways, buy certain products, etc. Like I also said before, there is a clear benefit in having broken families to productivity, as more people join the work force. If you want an explicit conspiracy map you won't find it, but the developments we have seen in modern societies are not a product of chance.
If you do not like what state does, elect representatives that act differently, or go to politics yourself.Do you think the state is us? Really? Yes, that what it should ideally be, but are you really that naive? What happened when the huge multinational banks failed in 2008? They got bailed out with the money of everybody (the taxpayer.) What happened when John and Jane Smith lost their job and couldn't pay their mortgage? Exactly, now you got it. This is just a very simple example, and not even the most grievous one. The fact is that the state is not us, no matter how much you want to believe that.
There actually are some rather reliable yardsticks to look at: statistics on violence, literacy, powerty etc. On all those, world is indeed getting better.The world has become better in some areas, and worse in others. It's tough to assign points and quantify whether the world has become better or worse. To me, a place where mass murder is justified based on convenience, for one, is not a very enlightened place.
??Not casualties of war.
As said, i see current situation as much better than what we had just decades ago.Probably. I definitely don't think that "probably" is a very reassuring word when we are talking about global nuclear war, don't you agree?
Depraved according to your interpretation of moral. I see nothing immoral in porn really.This go back to morality, which you tend to always think is relative. Depraved people can enjoy many different things. Does that make those things acceptable morally? I don't think so.
Actually, i'd have no problem with that.Why am I not allowed to sell a kidney if somebody needs one? I don't need more than 1 kidney to survive. Both I and the recipient would benefit (assuming I need the money.) Why not allow this, can you give me a good reason why this is any different from prostitution? As a matter of fact, in my opinion it is morally better than prostitution, because my kidney can actually save a life.
Of course they are.No, I don't think something is 45% human or 89% human, and only when it's 100% human it can be considered a human being whose life matters. What about somebody with some genetic abnormality? Are they 100% human?
It's not a problem, it's a fact.You say it is relative, but it is not. That's your own problem.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
It is weird how bizarre you argue sometimes. I would have explained her what her job description had been, risks and side effects, and warned her that it is against the law. As long as she isn't forced into that job, it is a service as any other.
No, it doesn't answer the question, as you base it on your views. According to christian morale it was not only ok, but a necessity to eliminate dissidents and non-believers up to some 250 years ago, but isn't 2012.Let me answer this with another question: According to Nazi Germany morals, it was OK to exterminate the Jews. According to U.S. 2012 morals, killing somebody based on their race is a crime. Now, which is the right one? Hopefully this question answers yours.
"It is dark the other side. Very dark!" - "Oh, shut up and eat your toast!"
Oh that's hilarious! A God score card. Overall I think the old fart's doing a pretty crappy job. I think he should step down. It could well be time for a woman to take the reigns.
I don't question that you BELIEVE Men landed on the moon. You can BELIEVE in teh Great Pumpkin if you want, adn I wouldn't question that either. I do question you have the SAME RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE that men landed on the moon, as Jesus Christ is Lord.
Yes. I'm 100% certain Jesus Christ is Lord. I have ZERO doubt.
If you have the exact same evidence that men landed on the moon, feel free to provide it. If you actually have that evidence, you will be a genius.
Heck, even your family members, friends, and people you meet and influence might follow in your lead if you truly have that sort of evidence.
If you believe something is falsified, it's up to you to show it is.
If you believe the existence of Jesus Christ is fake, go right ahead and prove that.
When you do, again, you'll probably create a lot of doubt in believers.
Now, what evidence do you want me to look at?
Do you have something besides the obvious? IMO, a possible staged televised account doesn't prove anyone walked on the moon, and that story even has many books written about it.
Seriously?
Having a religious experience, and men landing on the moon, you think there's the same evidence, same spiritual proof of both? Really?
Last edited by Ian-T; 2012 April 23rd at 18:03.
No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life...Albert Einstein
....see what I did there? lol
No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life...Albert Einstein
Right back ya in terms of God. Please prove it exists. Please prove Christ walked on water, and cured with a touch.... Mary gave birth without sperm, and all the rest of that utter nonsense.
Do you have something besides the obvious? Heck, even your family members, friends, and people you meet and influence might follow in your lead if you truly have that sort of evidence. If you believe the existence of Jesus Christ is real, go right ahead and prove that.
Now, what evidence do you want me to look at?
Seriously?
It wouldn't amaze me. Have you ever looked at what insane prices ferrymen are asking for down there?Please prove Christ walked on water
"It is dark the other side. Very dark!" - "Oh, shut up and eat your toast!"
If fitting in means being a part of the herd, going with the flow, wasting through a meaningless life of frivolities, you are right. I, personally, think that "fitting in" is not a virtue, as you seem to think. But to each his own, I suppose.
You won't hear me saying many positive things about society because besides any positive attributes that can be found on the individual, I think society doesn't have any added value. Society is simply a big herd, where the voice of the many most offten suffocates the voice of the right. Where mediocrity and conformance is rewarded, and where dissent with the common opinion is looked upon with contempt. Guess what? Nazi Germany was full of your type. That's exactly the problem. Too many people fit in too well, and not enough were brave enough to step out of the ranks of the majority to speak out when they saw injustices being perpetrated under their noses.
So enjoy your sense of belonging and your false feeling of contentment, it's all yours!
Each person should act in accordance with her own conscience, and be ready to pay the price if that means breaking the law. I'm sorry if this concept is too elaborate to permeate beyond the outer layers of your sheep brain.
There is a reason for everything, and I would really like to know what reason you have to feel the disgust you feel against religion and religious people. Is it a personal experience that you suffered? Does it have to do with historical events? Some specific person that you knew?
And you sound very much like a sheep with an advanced enough knowledge of grammar to construct sentences in the English language.
In my experience when somebody reacts with anger and violence it is a sign of impotence. I think that you live too comfortably sheltered in your human herd, and that you are afraid of anybody challenging your flimsy set of values with actual data.
Again, thinking never hurt anyone. Independent critical thought can allow you to reach conclusions in conflict with what you have been fed all your life by that Propaganda Box that you like to call TV. Government has never been of the people for the people, although I have to admit that democratic government is the closest we have come to a tolerable form of it. Just because you tolerate something it doesn't mean you have to like it.
Absolutely right, there is always a degree of uncertainty. I think that when something has to do with Christianity people have been indoctrinated to immediately reject it as false. True, faith is necessary because in the end there exists no conclusive data. But I have seen people who even claim disbelief in the existence of Jesus Christ accept other things far more uncertain as a matter of fact. I think it's a reaction in society, a big swing of the pendulum, going from one extreme (accepting every single thing people were told in church without a shadow of critical thinking involved) to the other extreme (Jesus didn't exist, and if He did, there is 0% chance the Bible is even remotely right about who He was and what He did.)You wanna hear something funny? I’ve worked for the people responsible for bringing men to the moon for a number of years now and though I believe they went to the moon…I’m not 100% CERTAIN about it. Do you have firsthand accounts? Reports can always be falsified. So can TV documentaries.
If you think this is a play on words and that you can still claim certainty then you should not question my (or anyone else’s ) experience when we say we know, with all certainty, that God exists. But if your next question to me is PROVE IT then…I’d have to ask you first.
You are confusing the facts. I never said we can prove Jesus is God. I said there is about as much historical evidence showing Jesus did exist as there is showing Alexander the Great did exist. You are the one who claimed to believe Jesus didn't even exist, and you keep confusing the facts.
Divorce can be positive when it is the only exit. My point is that it has become almost a habit for people to give up too fast and take the easy way out without concern for their children. Divorce has been trivialized to a point that people don't even give it a second thought. Much like abortion, "it's just not a big deal."
That's because you think there is no architect behind the scenes. Enjoy your delusion.
The system is corrupt to the core, and it cannot be saved. Besides that, I'm not worried about politics or society. I think that it's better to fight the little fights (yourself as an individual, your family, friends, etc.) Just because the system sucks it doesn't mean you can't have a happy and fulfilling life. As long as it is based on understanding and resignation (instead of ignorance and false contentment) I'm OK with that.
If by literacy you mean the ability to read and write words, I suppose you are right. If you actually look at what people are reading, the story is completely different. Perhaps you are looking at things from a global perspective, but I can assure you that in the U.S. the average citizen is far more ignorant than he was 60 years ago. You just have to go to the Yahoo! home page in an average day and marvel at the depth of the headlines: "Kim Kardashian has new line of shoes", "Lindsay Lohan arrested on DUI charges", "Cat clever enough to open fridge", "Ex NBA player X just filed for bankruptcy." I mean, really?????
Enjoy your slumber before you wake up to reality. You probably saw the news today about North Korea threatening total destruction of Seoul and other South Korean cities with a new kind of weapon. It might have been a bluff, but that's not the point. Somebody crazy enough to make such a threat will probably not exercise too much restraint when the opportunity arises. Then think about the multitude of smaller radical countries that continue making technological advances that will allow them to create weapons of mass destruction. It's Armaggeddon waiting to happen.
You see nothing immoral? Do you just walk up to somebody you don't know in a party, pull down their pants, and tell them to bend over like it's a common thing to do? Honestly, sometimes I feel like an alien dropped in a planet far, far away. Please, go ahead and tell me how poking a stranger's genitals advances the moral, cultural, or scientific state of the human race, because I have yet to see any redeeming value in that kind of activity.
I am not surprised either.
Unless they are fetuses, of course.
You can deceive yourself all you want in that paradise of relative morality that you call "modern society."
Let me be absolutely honest and say that I think you are full of crap. I want to believe you are a better father than that. I simply can't believe you wouldn't try to steer your daughter towards a more dignified career.
According to Christian moral? The only Christian moral I know is in the New Testament, and I'm convinced it didn't justify murder 250 years ago, 1500 years ago, or the day before yesterday.
Posting Permissions
