From a human point of view, you're correct. We cannot know whether a cat is white before observing it. To us it has no color.Originally Posted by Bob Sanders
But the reflective properties of the cat's fur do not change upon observation: therefore one can say with a rather solid reasoning that the fur's whiteness IS an "universal truth", just one we're unaware of before observation.
Last edited by Halsu; 2012 February 5th at 07:02.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
No you didn't "tell us what it is", you told us what it isn't.
The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-violence.
Huey, just so you know, and there are many others, but these are supernatural.
Why is it that you all resort to Ad Hominem attacks against bob? It seems you do that when you run out of arguments.
Another good example of Ad Hominems - not surprised in Krute's case though. Luckily, we're all equal here. Your bullying attempts do not have any power - you can't silence us from voicing our opinions.
Thou too Brutus?
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
As said, your failure to understand is irrelevant.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-violence.
As far as i've heard, we don't know for certain. It's likely that Shakespeare did exist, and write the works attributed to him, but not sure.
They probably didn't think it was a lie. That doesn't make it true though. They were uneducated folks, and like other at that time, very easily convinced with claims of supernatural.Do you see a bunch of Christians risking their lives for something they knew to be a lie? I don't see that today or 2000 years ago.
The members of the Heaven's Gate UFO cult were convinced enough to make the ultimate sacrifice, a suicide - does that make their beliefs true?
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
According to the bible, God used to do such appearances on a daily basis in the past: he talked to Adam and Eve in the garden, assumably taking a human form as he's said to be walking there, he talked to Moses as a flaming bush, split oceans, burned cities, all in all kept a rather visible communication going, with many shows in his tour date.
Why did he stop doing that?
I'd argue that the tube is a much better source of information than the bible: at best, it has very good, up to date information that can be verified from multiple reliable sources. You just need to use source criticism: not all videos there are equally good, if something seems suspect, take it with a grain of salt. But many of the videos on the tube use solid reasoning and argumentation, you shouldn't dismiss the medium just because there's also irrelevant stuff there.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
Well, if you refuse to try, or consider any other evidence, it's pretty obvious you will never be able to prove whether it's true or not...
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
Not if we talk from the human point of view.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
Again, with this you make a good case for a relative, secular moral that is a creation of us humans, not God.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
Count me in too for having the same beliefs. Not as a certain fact, but as a pretty likely possibility. Universe is vast, and it seems emergence of life is a pretty straightforward process, as is evolution of species. It would be surprising if it happened only once.
It's a totally different matter whether we will ever find that other life, for the same reason: universe is vast.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
Says who? Not the bible as far as i know. Sounds like secular moral applied to modify the commandments.
Again, the commandment is very clear. It's also pretty stupid from the modern point of view - so most modern Christians wisely apply their secular moral and simply discard it.The Sabbath is controversial. I have been meaning to investigate about it, so I can't help you at this time. I do know it is very controversial though.
Last edited by Halsu; 2012 February 5th at 07:29.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
Oh, about not killing: i personally think killing is always wrong. Even in the case of protecting the innocent. It's just LESS wrong than letting the innocent die because of neglecting to act.
Sometimes, quite often actually, there's no morally right thing to do. Just things that are wrong to varying degrees. In those cases, one needs to pick the lesser evil.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
But the Judeo-Christian religion indeed was a lot about the race originally. Agruably, most religions still are in a sense - they are "virtual tribes" that separate "us" from "them" just as much as they are worship of the divine.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
I don't. But it's all theoretical until we're faced with the experience. But in saying that it's theoretical - I am very protective of my son and wouldn't hesitate for a moment to take a life in the face of mortal threat.
Like Bob, i too think this is one of the most interesting aspects of this discussion: how people that are obviously rather smart can believe in things that to us seem highly irrational?
..this, but i wouldn't put it nearly as bluntly: applying a little politeness would likely help you too to get your point through, Bob
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
Hypathetic Halsu: I know what X is!
Hypothetical Huey: Oh! What is X then?
Hypathetic Halsu: X is not Z.
Hypothetical Huey◑‿◐)
The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-violence.
Hypothetical Huey
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
I might do the same for someone i love - but i don't think that would be the "right" thing to do, just the least "wrong".
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
@MalfunctioningHuman: I spent a considerable amount of time earlier writing this:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?1...e/page296#7382
...and this:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?1...e/page294#7332
They probably went unnoticed in the heat of the debate, but would you mind reading those posts and commenting them, please?
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
Telepathy is by definition supernatural. The status may change later, if it's found to A) exist and B) the mechanism is explained, but until then...
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
To me that's an indication that the society is just brilliant: a slow news day is an excellent news day. It means there were no newsworthy atrocities, violence etc. going on that day.
Everything's amazing and nobody is happy
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
New Oxford American Dictionary:
telepathy |təˈlepəθē|
noun
the supposed communication of thoughts or ideas by means other than the known senses.
The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-violence.
Wouldn't that be an argument for the position that Jesus didn't really die? That Pilates could have organized a false execution, and commanded the soldiers to take Jesus off the cross before he died, because he didn't want to kill Jesus?
Did you read the essay i linked to earlier? Care to comment?
Yep. As far as i've understood, Jesus was considered rather irrelevant by the Romans. It took a few dozen years for Christianity to become something that was worth attention.Well, it was only around the time of Nero in 64 AD where Christianity, because of its belief in one God, threatened the peace or religious tolerance of the Roman empire. The Romans believed in many Gods. But the Christians refused to bow down to worshipping Caesar. This is also the same time you start to see Christians being persecuted (you know Saul...who was converted to the Apostle Paul was also killing Christians before his conversion during this time). It took them that long to figure out what to do with this (for lack of a better term) cult. They were no longer just considered a small unknown sect. Christianity itself raised the proverbial red flag to the Romans more than Jesus Christ Himself (who stirred u the Jews).
The Christians were likely used as scapegoats in 64 AD, they were accused for burning Rome, probably falsely.
Last edited by Halsu; 2012 February 5th at 08:06.
*Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)
Posting Permissions
