Recording back to HDV tape

[alexander_geoff]

I edit in Premiere Elements 7 or Adobe CS3 and with both we have the same output to camera problems as above. However, PROBLEM SOLVED! I also have Magix Edit Pro 14 which is very slow for editing HD footage so I use Premiere. However I import my finished (edited) Hd footage onto a Magix timeline then Export to my HV10 with no problem.

I belong to a film making group who between us have 6 HV10s and know that this problem appears to be specific to Canon as I've not come across the same problem, exporting from the same programmes to Sony cameras.

[henk_hv20]

Dear Alexander,

Thanks for your reply.
May I kindly ask some clarification ?

A friend of mine has a HV20 and Vegas (somewhat older version) on XP
He does not have problems writing back to tape.
His set-up can also writing to my HV30 OK (so my HV30 is not wrong)
Also my cable works in his set-up.

Still, here at my Vista PC, with latest Vegas, my HV30 does not work.
Do I understand upload should be done with another SW ?

Thanks
Henk

[Rumpelgeist]

Offtopic: how happy I am that I use an AVCHD camcorder.

Please, continue.

[jet]

Offtopic: how happy I am that I use an AVCHD camcorder.

Please, continue.

As i have hdv and avchd can you tell me if you can make polished edited 1920x1080 films fom avchd material with titles, transitions ,meunus and window play menes,i sure cant.

[Rumpelgeist]

As i have hdv and avchd can you tell me if you can make polished edited 1920x1080 films fom avchd material with titles, transitions ,meunus and window play menes,i sure cant.

I don't see how "titles, transitions ,meunus" depend on the source format.

[Nic7320]

This may seem minor but the HV20/30 should be set in the playback mode, not record mode, when recording back to tape.

Not such a minor detail when you're on deadline and haven't figured this out. It is the most non-intuitive thing they did when they set up the firmware, and it's not in the manual. It's so egregious that it should be considered a 'bug'

BTW, why do PC users have so many problems with printing to tape? I've never had these issues with the Mac, but then it's a MacPro running OSX. Asking windows to do real time video (or real-time anything) is expecting a lot from an inherently unstable OS. When I got serious about video, I got a Mac... and was surprised how much better (and stable) it was. I'll still keep the PC laptop around, but when it comes to video, I do it exclusively on the Mac.

[Veteran]

Ok I have scoured around and couldn't find anything specific for my problem so I'll have a go here...

I am getting hitched soon and have a film crew I work with filming the ceremony and everything. Now I will have a couple of hv30's roaming and 2 Panasonic HVX's shooting in HD (not sure if we will do 720 or 1080 yet using firestore & p2 cards) but herein lies the question and I assume potential problem.

I know I can edit all the footage without worry BUT...is it possible to archive all this footage back to tape on the HV30 (or to any cam/deck) once edited?

Can the Panasonic HVX footage in HD (720/1080) even BE printed back to tape and if so do I have to render out the final edit to a M2T file or uncompressed AVI...or...????

I would test it out myself but I don't have the time or ability to for another month or so and thought I'd ask the good people on here!

Any help or insight is greatly appreciated!

[CycleWriter]

You "scoured" the forums and missed this Sticky?
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=12040

I've moved your post to the Panasonic subforum since the above answers the question as far as the Canon is concerned.

[I C]

You "scoured" the forums and missed this Sticky

CW,
You must have missed that new Merriam-Webster definition.

Scour
[skouuhr, skou-er]:
To look almost nowhere while simultaneously disregarding the FAQ and search functions.



It cracks me up when people say stuff like "I looked everywhere", or "I searched and searched", when...quite obviously neither looking nor searching tactics were employed. If you didn't look, might as well be straight up and say either "I'm lazy and just wanted to start a new thread to get a quick answer" or make sure to include this... "I am the least resourceful person on this planet and do not understand the concepts of search, FAQ, google.com, or any of teh interwebs"

[Veteran]

First of all I know full well how to print to tape in general. I have been told that it is not possible to print the HVX footage in particular back to tape without downconverting to SD but I didn't see anything using the search function that addressed my specifics in regards to this question.

So yes I DID search (here/google/panasonic forums/etc and didn't feel I had a satifactory answer. I also read that thread and it still doesn't address the issue of *non*-hdv footage being printed to tape which is what I'm asking about. Hopefully someone in the Panasonic forum can clear it up.

Thanks Cycle for the re-direct.

No-thanks to I C for trying to be a smart ass...keep it to yourself next time.

CW,
You must have missed that new Merriam-Webster definition.

Scour
[skouuhr, skou-er]:
To look almost nowhere while simultaneously disregarding the FAQ and search functions.



It cracks me up when people say stuff like "I looked everywhere", or "I searched and searched", when...quite obviously neither looking nor searching tactics were employed. If you didn't look, might as well be straight up and say either "I'm lazy and just wanted to start a new thread to get a quick answer" or make sure to include this... "I am the least resourceful person on this planet and do not understand the concepts of search, FAQ, google.com, or any of teh interwebs"

[I C]

First of all I know full well how to print to tape in general. I have been told that it is not possible to print the HVX footage in particular back to tape without downconverting to SD but I didn't see anything using the search function that addressed my specifics in regards to this question.

So yes I DID search and didn't feel I had a satifactory answer. I also read that thread and it still doesn't address the issue of *non*-hdv footage being printed to tape which is what I'm asking about. Hopefully someone in the Panasonic forum can clear it up.

Thanks Cycle for the re-direct.

No-thanks to I C for trying to be a smart ass...keep it to yourself next time.

Oh, come on. You said you "scoured around." There's info all over these boards related to your initial question (which did not seem to be specific). Gotta rib you for that.

Sure you can print to tape. But keep in mind, HDV is limited to 1440x1080 resolution tops, just because that's the way things are. So if you're dealing with 1920x1080 footage you are gonna lose some resolution. From what I've seen and heard though, those HVX's (assuming hvx200) use low-res chips and up-scale (whatever the process is) to 1080 anyways and is more of a 720p cam in the first place. Without looking at it, my assumption here is that you're not really going to lose a lot of detail in resolution by printing to 1440x1080 tape. If you were that concerned about getting 1920x1080 pixel peeping quality, you would probably have gone for something other than the HVX series anyways (not knocking it at all, it's a great camera, just more for 720p, and that's what people who OWN it have told me).

Here's my guess. You are probably gonna need to transcode your footage to HDV (1440x1080) and THEN print to tape to get the best quality? I don't really know. I suppose I could try transcoding some of my 5dmark2 footage to HDV and printing to tape and let you know how that goes, if it would be helpful to you. The thing here is the 1440x1080 HDV footage has a 1.33 (I think) pixel aspect ratio to keep it in 16:9 format (not sure if I'm saying that right). That's why I'm thinking you may need to transcode it first.

If you have any other specific questions, ask away. Your initial question

"I know I can edit all the footage without worry BUT...is it possible to archive all this footage back to tape on the HV30 (or to any cam/deck) once edited?"

Seemed to suggest you simply did not know about the print to tape function whatsoever.

[I C]

By the way...

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=23273

Why start a new thread when you had this one already??

[Veteran]

Oh, come on. You said you "scoured around." That just can't be, there's info everywhere.

Sure you can print to tape. But keep in mind, HDV is limited to 1440x1080 resolution tops, just because that's the way things are. So if you're dealing with 1920x1080 footage you are gonna lose some resolution. From what I've seen and heard though, those HVX's (assuming hvx200) use low-res chips and up-scale (whatever the process is) to 1080 anyways and is more of a 720p cam in the first place. Without looking at it, my assumption here is that you're not really going to lose a lot of detail in resolution by printing to 1440x1080 tape. If you were that concerned about getting 1920x1080 pixel peeping quality, you would probably have gone for something other than the HVX series anyways (not knocking it at all, it's a great camera, just more for 720p, and that's what people who OWN it have told me).

Here's my guess. You are probably gonna need to transcode your footage to HDV (1440x1080) and THEN print to tape to get the best quality? I don't really know. I suppose I could try transcoding some of my 5dmark2 footage to HDV and printing to tape and let you know how that goes, if it would be helpful to you.

If you have any other specific questions, ask away. Your initial question Seemed to suggest you simply did not know about the print to tape function whatsoever.

Pardon me if it wasn't clear...*I* was always under the impression that it was a simple edit...render master file...print to tape (makes sense right?). Then I had a conversation with two different people last night who shoot on it (using firestore and p2) and said the final raw footage can't be printed back to HDV without downconverting to SD (which sounded ridiculous to me).

I just couldn't clearly tell for sure as even when I searched the topic (trust me I looked for over an hour and a half) I kept seeing mention of either keeping it on a HDD or burning to Data DVD. Hence the question.

I appreciate the insight as that was what I was thinking as well. I think I'm going to try it out (if possible) asap if I can get a hold of some 720/1080 footage and see how it ends up looking on tape.

Thanks I C and if its no hassle please let me know how the 5d looks once on HDV tape...as I'm not so sure how soon I could get a hold of HD footage from the HVX.

[Lunchbox]

IC. good find =) I'm merging both

[Veteran]

By the way...

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=23273

Why start a new thread when you had this one already??

It was a question regarding SD footage tho and not HD. 24p in SD format on *tape* and not in a digital format. I felt it was a different enough issue.

[Veteran]

IC. good find =) I'm merging both

Thank you sir.

[I C]

Thanks I C and if its no hassle please let me know how the 5d looks once on HDV tape...as I'm not so sure how soon I could get a hold of HD footage from the HVX.

Sure, dude I'll give it a try. Btw, if you just want some 1920x1080p footage to mess around with, you can download that a lot of places, vimeo, etc. Heck I can get you some 1080p footage to test out if that's all you need.

One other thing I thought of, you may want to make sure all your video capture devices (HV30s and HVXs) are set to the same framerate on wedding day. If not, that may cause you some headaches in post (unless you aren't concerned with all the "24p in 60i" hullabaloo on the HV30s). I noticed your other thread touched on the 24p subject, so thought I might throw that in there, not sure if you're shooting the wedding in 24p or not.

[Veteran]

Sure, dude I'll give it a try. Btw, if you just want some 1920x1080p footage to mess around with, you can download that a lot of places, vimeo, etc. Heck I can get you some 1080p footage to test out if that's all you need.

One other thing I thought of, you may want to make sure all your video capture devices (HV30s and HVXs) are set to the same framerate on wedding day. If not, that may cause you some headaches in post (unless you aren't concerned with all the "24p in 60i" hullabaloo on the HV30s). I noticed your other thread touched on the 24p subject, so thought I might throw that in there, not sure if you're shooting the wedding in 24p or not.

I'll give it a go on Vimeo and try it out. As for the wedding day, yes I've been shooting all the stuff leading up to the big day on 24p (in 60i) and even got an extra external to handle the pulldown etc (sigh lol)...and all the hvx's will be shooting on 24p as well just to be consistent...although probably @ 720p to get more shooting time out of the Firestore.

Thanks again!

[Yzed]

I record back to tape full HD without any loss (no recompression) with hv30 and sony vegas 9 plat all my edited footage without trouble.

This being said , i want to shout out loud that Aramis you sound weird and annoying with your AVCHD advertizing, when 99% of people have troubles editing it, and i'm bored reading your technically empty comments but sarcasms.

Besides, AVCHD has nothing to do with tape back recording, and only have the disadvantage to not have this feature. Instead, any tape footage can be recorded on any possible media, even a hard drive or memory card !!!

[ejolson]

Besides, AVCHD has nothing to do with tape back recording, and only have the disadvantage to not have this feature.

Is it possible to load AVCHD into Vegas, export as HDV and print to tape? Given that tapes last about 10 times longer than writable DVDs would this be a reasonable method to archive the AVCHD source?

[jet]

Is it possible to load AVCHD into Vegas, export as HDV and print to tape? Given that tapes last about 10 times longer than writable DVDs would this be a reasonable method to archive the AVCHD source?

Well i used to export my avchd material back to tape with pinnacle when i used avchd so i would of thought vegas could as well.

[w.pasman]

Have you guys tried exporting back to tape successfully without 1 jot of missed footage, if so what programs are you using.

Yes, with FCP6, no problem

[w.pasman]

Does anyone know if I can litterally stream my mpeg back to MiniDV?
Litterally as in not recompressing.

Yes IF you have an mpeg transport stream.
I stream my final project back to tape and I then capture that stream back to the computer HD using a firewire stream capture program. This last stream can be spooled back to the camera (which will then play the stream on its screen and you can also record it again to tape) and also you can play this stream through VLC on your computer. If you turn on bobde-interlace I think you have the best possible playback (50p) on your computer.

[Veteran]

I'll give it a go on Vimeo and try it out. As for the wedding day, yes I've been shooting all the stuff leading up to the big day on 24p (in 60i) and even got an extra external to handle the pulldown etc (sigh lol)...and all the hvx's will be shooting on 24p as well just to be consistent...although probably @ 720p to get more shooting time out of the Firestore.

Thanks again!

I finally figured out how to get Panasonic P2 footage (720p) printed to HDV tape...

1. Import clips into a bin in Avid MC3

2. Highlight all clips in your bin

3. Export as a quicktime reference file

4. Import into Vegas

5. Render/Print to tape as a 720p / 23.976 M2T file

***6. Make sure you have a camera or deck capable of capturing 720p! I had to borrow a Sony Drive GV-HD700 which captures 720p no problem. So I get as clean a copy as I can get on TAPE which is a huge sigh of relief as I wanted hard copies of my raw wedding footage on tape.

Just thought this might help someone out in some way...

Cheers!

[ceentv]

I need to record a dv (not HD) edit to mini dv tape using the firewire connector and the HV20.
Is this possible without having to make a hd m2t render first?