Filming milk drops - how ?

[David Zeno]

Hello gentlemen,

I'm fuzzy on the technique on how to film milk drops, dropping into
a bowl.

If the HV20 shoots at 30 frames per second, then how do you obtain the very nice video I've seen of the individual drops dropping ?

If the camera can do a max of 30 fps, then I don't get it... 30 fps isn't fast enough to capture milk drops like I've seen on our forum before ( done with the HV20 )

So what is the trick ? :hv20-smilie51:

Thank you,

Dave.

[Lucasberg]

I have done a bunch of slowmotion stuff http://www.vimeo.com/album/8065
I usually shoot at 1/2000 in 60i then convert that to a 60p avi, then take that and slow it down to taste and render as a 1280x720 30P video. I'm not really a fan of the motion compensating software.

[booggerg]

You can't do it nicely with the HV20.. Check out the new Casio digital camera feature high FPS up to 1200 fps

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08010601casiof1.asp



• Standard: 640 × 480 (30 fps)
• HD: 1920 × 1080 (FHD HQ/FHD Normal, 60 fields per second), 1280 × 720 (HD LP, 30 fps)
• Hi-Speed: 512 × 384 (300 fps), 432 × 192 (600 fps), 336 × 96 (1200 fps)

[nolonemo]

Professional slo mo of stuff like milk drops is done with cameras with a high shutter speed, and using a fast firing strobe that's synced to the shutter opening.

[booggerg]

but milk drop isn't that fast.. you don't need to the super high speed cam+super high refreshing strobes.. 300fps such is what this casio can do, is more than fast enough to get good temporal resolution of what occurs when a drop of milk impacts a larger pool of milk.

[David Zeno]

Hi Lucasberg,

You are doing this all on the HV20 ?

How do you put the camera into "60i" ?

So you somehow put the HV20 into "60i" mode, and then set the
shutter to 1/2000 ?

I have to say I'm totally confused, as I checked the settings on mine and I don't see how you did this. :-(

Your video is very impressive, I just viewed it, and this is what I would like to try.

Dave.



I have done a bunch of slowmotion stuff http://www.vimeo.com/album/8065
I usually shoot at 1/2000 in 60i then convert that to a 60p avi, then take that and slow it down to taste and render as a 1280x720 30P video. I'm not really a fan of the motion compensating software.

[David Zeno]

I remember reading about this camera ( perhaps on this very forum ) and thought ... Casio ? ... must be some sort of el-cheapo point and shoot camera.

I was wrong ! ,, this camera looks to be very high quality, and I see it being used in the sports area, - with that kind of burst speed on it, this is going to get professionals and amateurs alike images they never could have before.

Imagine a pole vaulter, and getting 300 images of him or her performing their vault. Just unheard of.

Even the the big Canon and Nikon D-SLRs don't have this kind of capture rate, so it's very impressive.

Dave.



You can't do it nicely with the HV20.. Check out the new Casio digital camera feature high FPS up to 1200 fps

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08010601casiof1.asp



• Standard: 640 × 480 (30 fps)
• HD: 1920 × 1080 (FHD HQ/FHD Normal, 60 fields per second), 1280 × 720 (HD LP, 30 fps)
• Hi-Speed: 512 × 384 (300 fps), 432 × 192 (600 fps), 336 × 96 (1200 fps)

[Erik Bien]

Before you get too excited, Dave, check the sizes at which it can do the high speed: even 300 fps is less than standard-def resolution, and it gets worse from there. Is 336x96 (1200 fps) even big enough for YouTube?

[Erik Bien]

This Schweppes ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRFfJJjLpqw) has some incredible footage from the Photron (http://www.photron.com/) super-high-speed camera.

[Lucasberg]

If you shoot in normal HDV mode ,not the 24p you get 60i which is 60 fields per second. You turn that into 60P which you loose half the vertical resolution but get twice the frames a second to slowmo with. You wont get ultra slowmotion but you can have some fun. I normally render to 1280x720 30P and it looks awesome on my 50inch plasma.

[Braceface]

If you shoot in normal HDV mode ,not the 24p you get 60i which is 60 fields per second. You turn that into 60P which you loose half the vertical resolution but get twice the frames a second to slowmo with. You wont get ultra slowmotion but you can have some fun. I normally render to 1280x720 30P and it looks awesome on my 50inch plasma.

Thanks a lot Lucasberg!!, I am a huge fan of your macro work. I've shown like a dozen people your videos and they get a kick out of them. My question is how do you convert 60i into 60p? Boy would that help me, because I'd like to do some slow motion too. And, in that same mode of questioning, how would I turn 24p into 60p? How would I turn 24p without pulldown to 60p? You know, stuff in that vein... Thanks, and again, beautiful work. You have a Truly breathtaking style.

[Lucasberg]

Thanks,
This is what I do for Vegas.
1st go here and D-load Smart Deinterlace http://www.mikecrash.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6

1) Download and install Mike Crash Smart Deinterlace filter

2) Create a 60P (59.940) project
- Field Order: None (progressive scan)
- Deinterlace method: None

3) Switches
- Smart Resample

4) Apply the Mike Crash Smart Deinterlace filter to the track not the clip.

5) Render as 60P

Now this clip you rendered will not play in any media player, just take it into a new 1280x720 30p or 24p project with interpolate as the de-interlace methode, and click on the video properties this time and disable smart resample this time. Time stretch to how slow you want and you will have great slowmo. I personally like non-blurred slowmo so I try to shoot a 1/500-1/2000th . Render to a 1280x720 video and enjoy.

[racer-x]

Hey Lucasberg,

That looks like a good workflow. I like Mike Crash's plugin also. I believe the smart deinterlacer was a revamped Virtualdub plugin.

I checked out your slow-mo clips, very nice...........

[Braceface]

Thanks,
This is what I do for Vegas.
1st go here and D-load Smart Deinterlace http://www.mikecrash.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6

1) Download and install Mike Crash Smart Deinterlace filter

2) Create a 60P (59.940) project
- Field Order: None (progressive scan)
- Deinterlace method: None

3) Switches
- Smart Resample

4) Apply the Mike Crash Smart Deinterlace filter to the track not the clip.

5) Render as 60P

Now this clip you rendered will not play in any media player, just take it into a new 1280x720 30p or 24p project with interpolate as the de-interlace methode, and click on the video properties this time and disable smart resample this time. Time stretch to how slow you want and you will have great slowmo. I personally like non-blurred slowmo so I try to shoot a 1/500-1/2000th . Render to a 1280x720 video and enjoy.

Thanks again!
I don't know about Vegas. I use Final Cut Studio. I don't know how hard or easy it is to do in FCP.

[DSvideo]

FCS has a pretty good slow motion filter if I'm not mistaken.

Twixtor does really nice slow motion. (it's a rather expensive plugin)

[edgelore]

This is what I do for Vegas...
...
5) Render as 60P

Now this clip you rendered will not play in any media player, just take it into a new 1280x720 30p or 24p project with interpolate as the de-interlace methode, and click on the video properties this time and disable smart resample this time...
Thanks so much for this... excellent stuff. One point confuses me though: if the initial render is 60P why do you say to pull it back in as a 720p project with interpolation for de-interlacing??? It's already 60P right? A 720p project by nature is not interlaced, so de-interlacing is unnecessary / irrelevant, right? Or am I missing something? Thanks!

[rockops]

hey Lucasberg or anyone else.

could you tell me how to apply the Mike Crash Smart Deinterlace filter to the track ?
I got up to step 4) and don't know how this is done, yet....

[kadzbiz]

Thanks,
This is what I do for Vegas.
1st go here and D-load Smart Deinterlace http://www.mikecrash.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6

1) Download and install Mike Crash Smart Deinterlace filter

2) Create a 60P (59.940) project
- Field Order: None (progressive scan)
- Deinterlace method: None

3) Switches
- Smart Resample

4) Apply the Mike Crash Smart Deinterlace filter to the track not the clip.

5) Render as 60P

Now this clip you rendered will not play in any media player, just take it into a new 1280x720 30p or 24p project with interpolate as the de-interlace methode, and click on the video properties this time and disable smart resample this time. Time stretch to how slow you want and you will have great slowmo. I personally like non-blurred slowmo so I try to shoot a 1/500-1/2000th . Render to a 1280x720 video and enjoy.

Joey, I have a couple of questions.
1. I downloaded and installed the MCSD Filter. No probs there.
2. When you say "create a 6OP project", I don't seem to have that option, or do you mean that by selecting the Field Order and Deinterlace Method as you suggest, that this actually makes it a 60P project?
3. No probs on the switches.
4. I can't find the MCSD Filter to apply to the track. In explorer I have found it in the Sony Filters folder, but it's not coming up amongst the other filters (which I couldn't find in explorer) in the list available.
5. How do you render as a 60P? Again, it's not an option in my list.

Then afterwards, how will I create a 30P project?

Cheers.

[Lucasberg]

Hey Dan
#2 Yes you have to create a 60P project by setting the fps to 59.940 and setting the field order to progressive,and deinterlace to none. Save the template too.

#3 Smart resample is the default in vegas so you dont need to do anything.

#4 There is a button just like on each clip on the far left for adding effects or filters to the whole track. Click that on that one and set the MCSD.

#5 You have to make a custom render template with the same properties like , 59.940,prog, none. I now do it as 1920x1080.

#6 After you take the 60P file and time stretch it to 50% You should have an option for 1280x720 30P or 1920x1080P in some format that you want to render to like what you would for Vimeo.

I hope that helps.
Joey

[jabloomf1230]

I want to add that Lucasberg has posted this method here before. I've used it and it works great. It's no substitution for a pro, high fps camcorder, but it does a very good job with HDV from the HV30.

[kadzbiz]

Hey Dan
#2 Yes you have to create a 60P project by setting the fps to 59.940 and setting the field order to progressive,and deinterlace to none. Save the template too.

#3 Smart resample is the default in vegas so you dont need to do anything.

#4 There is a button just like on each clip on the far left for adding effects or filters to the whole track. Click that on that one and set the MCSD.

#5 You have to make a custom render template with the same properties like , 59.940,prog, none. I now do it as 1920x1080.

#6 After you take the 60P file and time stretch it to 50% You should have an option for 1280x720 30P or 1920x1080P in some format that you want to render to like what you would for Vimeo.

I hope that helps.
Joey

Okay, I found the framerate option, thanks. The only problem I have left is #4. MCSD isn't in the list even though I installed it. Do you know where is should be saved? It automatically saved it in the Sony Filters folder, but it's not in the list of available filters when I bring them up.