Canon HV20 vs. Panasonic DVX100

[neolinski]

i know im here in hv20 forum...
still. what do you guys think of those two camcorders?
dvx100 (3ccd, 24p) has much more controls and features but are they 'good' enough to cancel out high definition 24p?
i know this question would be much more complicated.. but oh well im just wondering.

[24Peter]

Sold my DVX100 within two weeks of getting the HV20. And I never thought I'd sell it.

[joseph soriano]

same here...dvx100 sold after seeing beautiful hv20 footage on an HD monitor.

[daci]

I guess it all depends on what your needs are. If you need higher res and care less about control then HV20 would be great. DVX100's features still make it worthwhile for creating great looking 24p movie, in standard def.

Check out this movie made with DVX100 + 35mm adapter. http://www.mysimilo.com/

Not saying that you can't make something like this with HV20 + adapter combo, but except for higher res everything else would be a little trickier due to lack of full maunal control. But if you asked me, I would go with HV20, because I know the difference between 'impossible' and 'tricky'. :)

[framecut]

Sold my DVX100 within two weeks of getting the HV20. And I never thought I'd sell it.

Whoa.

I have my 'pride & joy' DVX100 kit, I love the HV20, but it's nowhere near the DVX-100 in terms of controls.

Now...if Canon were to release a $2000+ range camera that had more of the manual controls, etc and a LARGER LENS to go along with the 1080p 24p...I think it would sell nicely.

[tkmslee]

I think the controls of the HV20 are adequete enough that a very professional video can be made with it. In fact, I would challenge anyone with a DVX100 or semi-pro grade video camera against the HV20.

A lot is done in post with any dv footage.

[24Peter]

Whoa.

I have my 'pride & joy' DVX100 kit, I love the HV20, but it's nowhere near the DVX-100 in terms of controls.

Now...if Canon were to release a $2000+ range camera that had more of the manual controls, etc and a LARGER LENS to go along with the 1080p 24p...I think it would sell nicely.

And the DVX is nowhere near the HV20 in terms of image quality.

I agree manual controls are important, though for me personally I pretty much set it and forget with my DVX. I also agree the ideal camera would be a 2 1/2 lb $2000 1080p/HDMI out/XLR audio camera with full manual controls and the HV20 chip/image processing. I said this before and some bonehead said, "ever heard of an A1"? Sorry pal, not what I'm talking about. Check the specs.

But back to the DVX, I made four movies and shot three weddings and made countless family and small video projects with it. Great camera in its day. But for me that day has passed. Panasonic needs to make an HDV version of the DVX (and for the boneheads out there, I don't mean an HVX 200 - check the specs!)

[Mal]

Panasonic needs to make an HDV version of the DVX

It may come, but will probably be AVCHD, not HDV.

[24Peter]

It may come, but will probably be AVCHD, not HDV.

Yeah, I know Mal, but I didn't want to get into the whole AVCHD thing...:hv20-smilie79:

[skinnyboy]

One of these days a friend with a DVX and I are going to do a head-to-head shootout. Just keeps not being top priority for us.

I will say this - we shot a live concert last Friday. My HV20, his DVX100a and someone else had a GL1. Stephen captured it all and was blown away by the HV20 footage. Keeps raving about it and told the GL1 owner to sell his camera and buy an HV20.
We did it all 60i because of the GL. When we do the head to head we'll be 24p.

[Diggadonkey]

When I go on professional shoots, I would never pull out my HV20. True, it takes great video, but my clients aren't going to take me too seriously if I don't at least use my DVX100a. If I were shooting weddings, I wouldn't hesitate to use the HV20 as a B roll cam.

[sean90291]

The lack of manual controls on the HV20 becomes almost entirely moot when you pair your HV20 with a 35mm adapter. You don't WANT to change your exposure or zoom or gain or anything else when you're using a 35mm adapter. And the HV20 does allow you to lock those settings. That's all you need, since aperture and focus are factors which can be controlled using the lenses on the 35mm, giving you FULL manual control of aperture, focus, zoom. ND filters can be added to the lenses too, giving even more control with the 35mm adapter.

If I wasn't going to be using a 35mm adapter, the manual control thing would be a big issue. But I don't even use my DVX anymore without the 35mm adapter, because the DVX does NOT offer any control over depth of field. You need a 35mm adapter for that.

[24Peter]

When I go on professional shoots, I would never pull out my HV20. True, it takes great video, but my clients aren't going to take me too seriously if I don't at least use my DVX100a. If I were shooting weddings, I wouldn't hesitate to use the HV20 as a B roll cam.

I think with a wide angle adapter or mattbox on front, a shock mount and shot gun mic on top (or a wireless setup mounted on camera), on a nice tripod, you could pull it off. Just tell them all the new HD cameras are this small - they'll never know the difference. :hv20-smilie45:

[Ian-T]

The lack of manual controls on the HV20 becomes almost entirely moot when you pair your HV20 with a 35mm adapter. You don't WANT to change your exposure or zoom or gain or anything else when you're using a 35mm adapter. And the HV20 does allow you to lock those settings. That's all you need, since aperture and focus are factors which can be controlled using the lenses on the 35mm, giving you FULL manual control of aperture, focus, zoom. ND filters can be added to the lenses too, giving even more control with the 35mm adapter.

If I wasn't going to be using a 35mm adapter, the manual control thing would be a big issue. But I don't even use my DVX anymore without the 35mm adapter, because the DVX does NOT offer any control over depth of field. You need a 35mm adapter for that.Sean you beat me to the punch. You are abslutley correct in what you said. With an adapter (assuming most of us will be using one) your cam becomes just a plain old "camera head." Most everything is controlled with the adapter...so...the argument for "lack-of-manual-controls" is definately moot. It's funny, at least to me, when i see people mention this. Also, this is a consumer camera...I would expect there to be a lack of manual controls in a consumer cam...but the HV20 has everything one needs to make a good final product (coupled with an adapter of course)...especially knowing you can control the gain.

Also, I've seen many people state that they would never be taken seriously on a professional shoot with and HV20....my question is....why would you even take a consumer cam on a professional shoot? If shooting video is part of your livelihood and your professional appearance is equally as inportant as the final product then I would not be displaying something that looks like a toy (just me)...then again...this does not take away from the fact that the HV20 would probably do just as a job or better than whatever you usually use. I have two of my own possible solutions to that problem:

1) Carry your old Pro SD cam to the shoot along with the HV20. Have the pro cam set up in full gear on its own tripod somewhere off to the side and the HV20 mounted on its own tripod (decked out if you may) and shoot primarily with that. The pro cam would make everyone feel comfortable knowing that this is a professional shoot.

2) On your next gig...before setting up the deal....show everyone involved a demo footage of the above job...they will be wowed....and then akll of a sudden...you bust out with the HV20. Explain to them that "This is what you will get with this little beast"....they would be wowed some more..and would probably beg you to bring it to get that fab footage (I know I'm reaching but...I think they will love you in the end).

[casablanca]

What if we put the HV20 attached to the horse shoe of our previous sd cameras (like the XL1), so we have the shoulder style, plus a frontal LCD, and record using the HV20 quality? We can always connect a firewire cable between the two and use the larger viewfinder of the older camera.

This is a weird idea, and my HV20 haven't arrived yet, but if it is light enough, maybe the idea wouldn't be so crazy.

-EDWIN

[pmpete]

Ode to the A1 Digital.....
I still own a non working one. What a great camera, it just died too soon though.
I had a fantastic layout and controls galore.
But it cannot even begin to touch the IQ the insanely tiny HV20 gets.
Now the real cats pajamas will be when Canon combines this sensor in a 3CMOS replacement for the GL2 shooting HDV. 20x L lens and the controls would be a killer cam.
Paul

[jondabach]

Bringing up the non-professional look of the hv20 is a great point. It's small and looks just like everyone elses camera so telling your clients that it's different won't put them at ease. My recommendation is to get a rig that makes the camera look impressive. If you're only spending a grand on the camera then sell your dvx and take the 2-3k you get and by a 35mm adapter, some nice nikon lenses, a rails system, and LCD...or you can always try to fashion out a handheld job...I dare any client not to take you seriously if you had this setup:

http://prolost.blogspot.com/2007/06/redrock-gets-it.html

[Galleddrim]

Bringing up the non-professional look of the hv20 is a great point. It's small and looks just like everyone elses camera so telling your clients that it's different won't put them at ease. My recommendation is to get a rig that makes the camera look impressive. If you're only spending a grand on the camera then sell your dvx and take the 2-3k you get and by a 35mm adapter, some nice nikon lenses, a rails system, and LCD...or you can always try to fashion out a handheld job...I dare any client not to take you seriously if you had this setup:

http://prolost.blogspot.com/2007/06/redrock-gets-it.html

Awwwww . . . sweet. :eek: Must have . . .

Three questions: What's it called, when does it come out, and how much will it cost?

[tkmslee]

Last night I took out my HV20 on a real job with just a tripod and a body crane. So it was me, my wife, and a couple getting ready to have a baby...that's it...we could have been family just going to shoot some footage of the flowers. We were kicked out of the park because we looked professional and hadn't paid the $75 sitting fee required. I had an exterior mic and a lens shade on a tripod and they thought I was a pro. So, don't underestimate the potential of even this small cam with a few add ons for eye candy!

[Erik Bien]

You bring up a good point, tkmslee: maybe it's the ubiquity of video cameras or the idiots who use them to stalk or intimidate their idols and enemies, but the fact is it's getting harder every day to get away with shooting in a public place without getting hassled.

NYC was about to revise the rules for shooting permits so strictly that most of the tourists in Times Square would be in violation if they hadn't obtained a permit! (I think there was enough public outcry they softened it so you should be okay shooting hand-held, but using a tripod might still risk a summons.)

Most cities want you to obtain a permit before shooting in a public place; often there's a requirement that the production carry a certain amount of liability insurance, and there may be additional expenses, such as street closures, temporary no-parking signs, etc.

Even if you're shooting on private property, it's good practice to have the owner sign a 'location release,' which normally includes a phrase such as "in exchange for the valuable consideration of $____,". Even if it's a friend's apartment, fill in the blank with a '1' and pay them a dollar, in cash.

It's an unfortunate reality of the times in which we live that the logo on a subject's t-shirt, the music blaring from a passing car radio and even pedestrians walking through the background all represent a potential financial interest/lawsuit threatening to reach into your pocket as an indie film maker, but it's probably cheaper in the long run to CYA before the nice officer asks to see your permit.

[Gonzz]

your SHORT SIMILO,,, what a piece of Art.. great..

[ForwardLooker]

2) On your next gig...before setting up the deal....show everyone involved a demo footage of the above job...they will be wowed....and then akll of a sudden...you bust out with the HV20. Explain to them that "This is what you will get with this little beast"....they would be wowed some more..and would probably beg you to bring it to get that fab footage (I know I'm reaching but...I think they will love you in the end).

I think this is spot on!

The hv20 is a sign of the times and i dont think that many clients would be ignorant to it knowing what it can do.

[threadhanger]

your SHORT SIMILO,,, what a piece of Art.. great..

Who made Similo?


Edit: Oh..Daci. Nevermind.

[David Zeno]

Why is this thread in the "footage " forum ? can't a mod move it to the correct forum ? I clicked on this thread thinking it had to do with footage, only to see this stuff LOL.

[tehellet]

I guess it all depends on what your needs are. If you need higher res and care less about control then HV20 would be great. DVX100's features still make it worthwhile for creating great looking 24p movie, in standard def.

Check out this movie made with DVX100 + 35mm adapter. http://www.mysimilo.com/

Not saying that you can't make something like this with HV20 + adapter combo, but except for higher res everything else would be a little trickier due to lack of full maunal control. But if you asked me, I would go with HV20, because I know the difference between 'impossible' and 'tricky'. :)

Wow, Similo. That was great. Probably the best short film made with a 35mm adapter I've seen so far. Any more info? I would love to read more about the production and details.