External microphones - DM50, VideoMic, MKE400 and more

[Travis]

Does anyone know for sure if the Rode VideoMic works on the HV20? The camera seems so small...not sure if it will fit on top. Is that what you would recommend? (looks pretty good to me for $150 US) http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=VideoMic
Also, if it does work, is it possible to use an external light and the Rode VideoMic at the same time?
Thanks guys...love the site! :hv20-smilie70:

[Mal]

Yes, the Rode VideoMic is okay, but I am not sure if it will appear in the cam's view at full wide, being that it is quite big, and the HV20 quite small.

To use additional items, you'd need a shoe mount extender/splitter like the NRG one: http://tinyurl.com/o8oeg

We really need to find smaller solutions for the HV20 though, given that it's so small and most pro gear is relatively big.

[Mal]

By the way, there's also a STEREO version of the same mic:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VideoMicSt/

[Travis]

And the Rode Stereo Mic looks smaller too! Thanks guys!

[Mal]

Okay, we really need to find a good microphone for the HV20.
Size is going to be an issue, as the cam is so small. I'm not sure if a 48V phantom powered XLR mic is going to do, especially for run n' gun.
It really should be self-powered and have a 1/8" connection.
Stereo a plus, but not really necessary. Hopefully directional, i.e. shotgun, or hyper cardioid.

Rode has a few choices:
- Stereo VideoMic (http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=Stereo_VideoMic) - $250.00
- VideoMic (http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=VideoMic) - $150.00

Sony:
- ECM-Z37C (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8902&A=details&Q=&sku=225508&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) - $95.00

Sennheiser:
- MKE-300 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8902&A=details&Q=&sku=47031&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation#goto_itemInfo) - $160.00

Sima:
- MZM-1 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8902&A=details&Q=&sku=400052&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) - $35.00

Audio-Technica
- Pro 24 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=352168&is=REG&addedTroughType=search) - $70.00 (needs shoe mount, also: not very directional I think)

Canon
- DM-50 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=CADM50&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=201377) - $150.00 (uses the Advanced Hot Shoe technology so does not require wires or power)

Azden
- Azden SMX-10 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/444022-REG/Azden_SMX10_SMX_10_Stereo_Microphone.html) - $80.00


If anyone knows anything about these mics, please let us know here, and I'll update this list.
Also, there's other mics out there; let us know other choices.

I'm just not too familiar with these types of mics, so it would be good to find a nice mics that suits the HV20.

[apfx07]

One of the posts towards the bottom of page 7 is what a user on dvinfo had to say about the Rode Videomic and the HV-20.


http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=89587&page=7

Looks like there may be a few issues with this unit picking up to much hum from the HV-20:hv20-smilie51:

[elmerlang]

@ Travis

Several people on DVinfo.net say the Rode Videomic pics up motor noise.

@ Mal

I agree that we need to find a smaller solution, and hearing anyone's experience will be greatly appreciated!

best,
elmer

[SSzudzik]

I've got the Canon DM-50 working with the HV20 and really enjoy the sounds. Does shotgun as well as stereo. Haven't noticed any hum from the motor or zoom.

--Steve

[bchammer]

Do I need an external mic?

I am not a pro - but if some bucks gimme better sound I would not hesitate to buy an external mic.

Are there good options in the 50$ to 100$ range?
How do those inexpensive mics compare to the internal and to more expensive ones?

thanks

[Mal]

Are there good options in the 50$ to 100$ range?


The jury's still out on that.
I'd like to know too; even started a thread: http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=39 and this one http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=37 ....
At least you put it in the right category though, Sounds! :)

[duzzit_madder]

There is a ton of information on sound and which mics do what better for the price. Value is something of a misnomer when it comes to microphones.

Go here (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question309.htm) first. Once you understand how you'll begin to understand why it costs so much.

I've heard the Rode VideoMic (http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=VideoMic&type=acc) gives satisfactory results.

For me, I saved up and got this one (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8533&A=details&Q=&sku=423592&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation). I'm very happy with it.

[Mal]

The ME66/K6 is a well-known mic for sure; some reckon it is a "tad" overpriced for what it is. I found it to be a bit too "tinny" IIRC.
Just a personal opinion about hat particular mic. But hey, if it works for you, GO FOR IT!!! :hv20-smilie77:

[rehoot]

Do I need an external mic?

I am not a pro - but if some bucks gimme better sound I would not hesitate to buy an external mic.



If you are making movies of the new baby or your trip to Disney Land, you probably don't need a mic. The sound is OK relative to other consumer video cameras, but you do get some noise from the HV20 and if you are interviewing a person who is not on top of the camera, it is best to have a mic. If you will have the mic at the camera, a shotgun mic would be best, but if you happen to have another type of mic, try it. Also, the HV20 does not have XLR connections, so be sure that you can plug the mic into the mini stereo plug.

[ToTo]

As soon as you want to do anything theatrical... whether it be drama, comedy, etc. then you should consider an external mic. The single biggest function of the external mic is that you are allowed to get the microphone CLOSE without having to match that distance with the camera.

Turn on your cam, hit record, put it down on the table. Then walk across the room... now speak normally. Just say "testing" or whatever... now walk closer and repeat... now get two feet away from the camera and repeat. Play that back on your TV.

There, you just learned why boom poles came to exist. A boom pole allows close mic placement (2' over actors' heads) while keeping the microphone out of frame. The perception of sound favors close proximity... meaning, in a nutshell, that the show CSI wouldn't be very interesting if the detectives were interrogating a perp from the other side of a busy street and all you could hear is cars passing... even when no cars are in frame... but the reality is that would be exactly what you would hear. In this instance they may even use wireless... but that's another method to get the same result... FAR improved sound due to getting the mic CLOSE (hidden in the clothing or body near the head).

Sound is just like light... inverse square law. Doubling distance weakens the sound by 4 times... and worse still... increasing distances to microphones raises the RATIO of unwanted to desireable sound. Even in a booming situation it's normal to add a LITTLE distance to allow some room acoustics into the soundtrack... but too much distance to the mic and you get a hollow, "roomy" sound that pulls the viewer out of the story... and it SCREAMS amature.

For viral videos... youtube, etc. then the oncam mic is good enough because the expectations are low... but even the GOOD videos on those sources are addressing quality audio.

So which mic? Well I guess you need one that does not require phantom power... and it probably needs to convert down to a mini-jack... I'm not sure the best way to handle this, but you can probably use a Rode and a cable that takes you down to mini-jack... and then try to get the mic close. Eventually you'll want to consider external recording options that allow more flexibility (if you go to the trouble to edit videos that you wish to be compelling viewing.)

For now... address the MAIN issue of getting better sound by getting the mic close. That one is easy. :hv20-smilie03:

[Dodgy Nick]

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread, especially Matt and duzzit matter, I have gone and bought a Rode Videomic and a boom pole.

I've plugged the earphones in and did a test with and without the Rode. With the on-cam microphone, you can hear motor noise, especially when you use the zoom buttons. The Rode sits comfortably in the accessary shoe, and it picked up no motor noise whatsoever, only whats in front of the camera, and a bit of ambient room noise. The Rode Videomic also has a high pass filter which potentially cuts out motor noise frequencies, but it was already not audible in the normal setting, so I'll keep it there for future use.

So the Rode Videomic gets the :hv20-smilie77: from me!

[petr55]

I've got the Canon DM-50 working with the HV20 and really enjoy the sounds. Does shotgun as well as stereo. Haven't noticed any hum from the motor or zoom.

--Steve
Hi Steve

Where did you get it from and how much did it cost?

Thanks
Petr

[24Peter]

I should be receiving my Azden SMX-10 this week. http://www.videodirect.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SMX10&Category_Code=AZSGZM
Will post my results when I get it.

[bchammer]

Hi, I have a proposal for all the guys having an external mic:

It would be nice if you could upload some audio where you both use the internal and external mic (inserting the mic plug after some seconds). Then we would be able to hear the difference.

[Mal]

It would be nice if you could upload some audio where you both use the internal and external mic (inserting the mic plug after some seconds). Then we would be able to hear the difference.

I concur; we really need to hear what these mics can do.
Will definitely upload, once I get some mics here (this week, hopefully).

[alanz]

I bought a Rode VideoMic today. I should get to test it out over the next couple of days. However, with earphones in, just plugging in the external mike made a difference, eliminated the background hiss present in the internal mic.

[alanz]

I also bought a VideoMic today. If you really want to hear a difference, the internal mic clearly picks up every click of the joystick selector... with the VideoMic it isn't audible.

The isolation on the VideoMic isn't perfect, but it's way better than the built in.

[bchammer]

the rode videomic for 150$ is mono.
Why should I use a mono mic instead of a stereo?
I mean: perfect video quality and then MONO sound??

don't get it....

[Mal]

You will find that MOST dialogue is recorded in mono; even on major blockbuster movies the dialogue is recorded with single microphones.

However, since we are unlikely to add sound effects, etc. to our HV20 footage, I also agree that a stereo mic would probably be more suitable.
But it will depend on what you are shooting.

[Mal]

Notice:
I have now merged three threads which dealt with external microphones.

[David]

the rode videomic for 150$ is mono.
Why should I use a mono mic instead of a stereo?
I mean: perfect video quality and then MONO sound??

don't get it....

Mal is 100% correct. Professionals use mono shotgun mics. They're not looking for a microphone that will pick up every single sound in all directions, they're looking for a microphone that will pick up one very specific sound (usually a person's voice) as cleanly as possible. The Rode mic is (in their own words) "a professional grade shotgun microphone".

If you want to record every sound that is coming from all directions, get a bi-directional or omni-directional mic. With an omni, you might even be able to pick up your own breathing as you stand behind the camera. OTOH, if you want to record a single sound, you should get a shotgun mic which picks up sound from one very specific angle. Most people speak from a single hole in their heads; there's no 'stereo' necessary.

[Dodgy Nick]

Hi everyone

Now that I have the Videomic and a boom pole, I guess I need some sort of extention cable. Rode has the VC1 3m extention cable for the videomic which will do me no good. My questions are:

1. What length of cable can I use before I start introducing unwanted noise or signal loss?

2. Can I use a normal guitar lead cable with two 3.5mm jack converters on the end, or should I get a dedicated (say 8m) cable with the right connections on either end?

3. If I should get a long dedicated cable, where can I purchase it from in the UK?

Thanks

[Mal]

Not sure what the max length would be using this set-up, but here are two cables (in the USA, but I believe they ship to the UK):
25ft for $5.00:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=4171&A=details&Q=&sku=133832&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

50ft for $10.00:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=4171&A=details&Q=&sku=471798&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Both those are stereo both ends, not sure if that works with the Rode.
I'd NOT use extra connectors with guitar/phono cables, because you are introducing more possible problems, although it should work, I guess.

[24Peter]

I copied this from my post today on the Modifications section of the forum (sorry if this is a double post Mal - thought it would fit here too.)

"... the sound on the Azden is quite good with two exceptions: 1) I still get motor noise off the camera. It seems to ebb and flow during a recording meaning it's louder at one point and then almost indistinguishable at another, kind of like it's phasing in and out. But this is not function of the Azden. Everyone is reporting some motor noise with camera mounted mics on the HV20. Just a fact of life. 2) The part of the shock mount that holds the mic is actually hardened plastic instead of some kind of vibration-reducing rubber or something. Thus handling noise is pretty easily transmitted through the mount to the mic. It sounds worse while monitoring through headphones than what is actually recorded to tape but you do need to be aware of banging/scratching the camera while recording. On a tripod it's a non-issue though. I'm going to contact Azden to see if they have any shock-absorbing suggestions as typical 3rd party shockmounts (e.g., Rhode SM3) are much too large for this mic (the SMX-10 is tiny, at least in comparison to a regular shotgum mic.)

But at 1/2 the price and weight of the Canon DM50 (or whatever the Canon stereo mic is) it works for me for informal/family stuff. For more serious work I am going to get a Beachtek adapter and use my pro mic setups.

On the headphone monitoring thing, your's is the second time I've seen someone post that the camera doesn't remember the headphone selection setting. But I set my camera to "headphone" (as opposed to AV or whatever it is) in the recording settings once when I first got it and it's stayed that way since. Now I haven't used the camera's AV jack-out (my primary HDTV set has HDMI) so maybe using the AV jack is what reverts the setting rather than just turning the camera off? (I just checked again - camera's been off all night and when I turn it on the headphone icon shows on screen.)"

[Dodgy Nick]

Not sure what the max length would be using this set-up, but here are two cables (in the USA, but I believe they ship to the UK):
25ft for $5.00:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=4171&A=details&Q=&sku=133832&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

50ft for $10.00:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=4171&A=details&Q=&sku=471798&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Both those are stereo both ends, not sure if that works with the Rode.
I'd NOT use extra connectors with guitar/phono cables, because you are introducing more possible problems, although it should work, I guess.

Mal,

Those cables have male ends on both sides. In order to extend the Rode Videomic's cable, I'll need a stereo cable with a 3.5mm male plug at the one end and a 3.5mm female plug at the other.

Sorry for being picky...

[Mal]

I see!

A 25ft version:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=4171&A=details&Q=&sku=160694&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Or go with what I posted before and use one of these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=252354&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

[Dodgy Nick]

Thanks for the help! I managed to find a similar 5m cable at a store called Maplin in the UK. The link is here:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=11425&doy=28m4

One issue I have with the sound however, there is a massive latency when I use the videomic and a pair of headphones, with or without the extention cable. Is this normal? I can't for instance play guitar with the headphones on, it throws me off having the sound come through half a second later.

[ib84]

for the record:
on www.ohrwurmaudio.de (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ohrwurmaudio.de&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) you get a semiprofessional microfon you put on your ears like headphones for best possible stereo. It costs 70€. Some samples (http://www.ohrwurmaudio.de/o_beispiel.html)

[Mal]

ib84:
WOW, that's cool. Hadn't heard about that one before.
Quite ingenious! Love the idea..

Might take a bit to get used to, but that's definitely worth checking out (buying).

[BARYE]

I've long owned the Sennheiser MKE-300 and it fits nicely onto the HV20 -- its very light weight and it gives decent documentary dialoque audio, but I would not try to use it with music or a loud sound source

I haven't done any serious testing with it & the HV20 yet, and I wish I had a Rode to campare -- but I don't so far notice any handling or motor noise.

(though on the XHA1 I'm using a Shoeps, I'm no audio expert)

[bluegrass]

for the record:
on www.ohrwurmaudio.de (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ohrwurmaudio.de&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) you get a semiprofessional microfon you put on your ears like headphones for best possible stereo. It costs 70€. Some samples (http://www.ohrwurmaudio.de/o_beispiel.html)

nine sprekenzeedoich and the samples link didn't start to play on it's own.

[TheDingo]

...After spending some time researching different mics for the HV20, I took the plunge and bought the RØDE VideoMic. I bought the mono version after reading a great review of the mono and stereo versions at this site: http://www.pana3ccduser.com/showthread.php?t=4667 ( I wanted a mic mainly for interviews )

As for all the comments about "motor noise", I find the RØDE VideoMic to be very quiet, no motor noise on my end. I achieved the best sound with the RØDE VideoMic attenuation set to 0 db, and then I manually adjust the volume level with the HV20 joystick.

...I did notice that I can hear a very slight hum from the HV20 mic circuit when the camera is powered by the AC adapter. This disappears completely when I'm running on batteries.

I can also hear the normal hiss sound from the HV20's unbalanced mic circuit, but the only way to get rid of this is to go with an XLR mic set-up and an external XLR digital recorder. ( I use the Zoom H4 recorder for this, and am saving my pennies to buy the Fostex FR-2 LE recorder )

Overall, for $180 Canadian, the RØDE VideoMic was a great buy for me.

:hv20-smilie03:

[Worley]

The hum is probably induction noise. This is where a balanced mic would probably be beneficial.

The longer the extension cable, the more likely noise is to be introduced. Personally, I would not wish to use an extension that is more than 5 metres.

Although you can buy one from Maplin (I visited my local store yesterday - out of stock!), it may be better to make one yourself. Maptlin will sell the necessary parts, and it should work out cheaper. You'll need a soldering iron.

Worley.

[threeshouts]

my experience with the DM-50 hasn't been good as SSzudzik's. i can hear camera noise when shooting in quiet settings.

based on this thread, it seems the only way i can hope for audio as beautiful as the video is to record it separately, or use a shotgun away from the camera with the shortest cable possible to reduce the unbalanced riskiness of XLR > the cam's stereo mini jack.

[Mal]

Well, I think I mentioned this before somewhere, but I did receive the Soundprofessional Stereo mic...
THIS THING IS AWESOME!!!

What's lacking right now is a good shockmount to isolate it from the HV20, but this is a REALLY cool mic set-up.

http://hv20.info/yopu/mic1.jpg

It's available from:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/ISI-GPSM-PRO

In countless combinations. I opted for...
"INNOVATIVE SPECIALISTS POWERED STEREO MICROPHONE WITH STANDARD 9V BATTERY Premium Audio Technica Cardioid (U853); with high SPL built-in power; Add bass roll-off; Add level control; Add hinged lid. Plus 2 x AT-UE-UL (AUDIO TECHNICA SHOTGUN MICROPHONE ELEMENT FOR AUDIO TECHNICA AT853 AND U853 SERIES PREMIUM MICROPHONES)"

Mics listed on website are AT853, but they have been superceded with U853's.
Great sounding mic, and has the ability to do perfect ORTF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORTF_stereo_technique).
Also, I ordered two shotgun capsules for the mic (at $89.00 each), so I can change the cardioid capsules out for shotgun ones.

I know I need to upload some audio samples, and I will, once I get to a decent subject...

Here's another pic: of the insides (showing the various bass roll off settings, etc...)

http://hv20.info/yopu/mic2.jpg

They start at $169.00, although mine was $540 with all the bells and whistles. Oh, and I asked for slightly shorter goosenecks. They'll pretty much custom make this thing for you....you can ask to have the level control here or there; you can ask to have the 1/4" thread in the back or front...etc. etc....

[marshallarts]

Mal,

Where, what, when did you find that? And why did you choose it over the others I've seen mentioned here and elsewhere (including those others your suggested)? I read a little on ORTF, is this your main concern and does this mic perform that much better in this way? Can you tell me why you were interested in this one. I was almost completely decided to get the Rode, despite my comparative little microphone knowledge to others, solely based on what i've read here and elsewhere. Reading about this mic is a new 'setback' in my decision process.


Well, I think I mentioned this before somewhere,

I searched and couldn't find this anywhere...?

[Mal]

Mal,

Where, what, when did you find that? ....
I searched and couldn't find this anywhere...?

I looked and found I mentioned it here:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=63

It's a great mic, and excellent for super recordings, but a simple shotgun might be more practical in many cases. I have a ton of shotguns though, so i wanted this mic to try out!
It works well!

[Rikki]

ib84:
WOW, that's cool. Hadn't heard about that one before.
Quite ingenious! Love the idea..

Might take a bit to get used to, but that's definitely worth checking out (buying).

Dont know if its me but those samples on the page sound crap. Like listening to a seashell and getting a swishing, swirrling noise. Plus noise is fairly high.

R

[marshallarts]

It's a great mic, and excellent for super recordings, but a simple shotgun might be more practical in many cases.

thanks for the reply. That mic seems mighty interesting/tempting for sure, especially reading about OTRF. But as you say, "a simple shotgun might be more practical in many cases", do you feel for field recording this ORTF solution wouldn't make sense? (I ask because i'm newer to audio).

Is having a usable shotgun the most 'practical' replacement for an internal mic for the average field shooter? Speaking with the sound guy on a shoot today I learned stereo recording isn't really necessary unless recording music. And even then, moving the camera when recording music (let alone recording dialog or directional-? sound of any sort while panning/moving the camera may result in disorienting, phase-shift sounding?, audio) as a result of it being recorded in stereo and not mono.

In an earlier thread (#5) (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?p=2192#post2192) I asked about the Zoom H4 for field recording. The solution I was considering is using that to record PCM quality audio for any professional level situation. Then getting a simpler shotgun simply to replace the internal mic. And that shotgun is appearing to look more and more like the Rode Videomic (mono, not stereo, for reasons listed above -- but then do I waste the other [right] channel?).

The Canon DM-50 is also an option although there are complaints listed above. Is this mics capability to do stereo AND shotgun that much of a bonus???

[marshallarts]

I would just go out and buy a mic without over thinking this issue except I'm pretty broke and can't afford to test around. I may be over thinking it but I do appreciate any advice regarding my last questions.

In addition, is it possible for someone knowledgeable, who knows all the choices, to create an official "Mic Vote" thread to quantify all the great responses we've gotten regarding mic recommendations? I'm not sure what good option choices would be to thoroughly address this. Mic choices / mic types / per intended purpose? Wish we could make a questionnaire.. i'm thinking this too deep.

[Merric Reese]

Hi Marshallarts.

I'm also on a tight budget and I've got similar questions. There are many out there who have more experience with mics than I do but I'm currently tossing up between the following:
1) Rode Videomic ~$150AUD (mono but delivers audio to both left and right channels) great for dialog but seems to sound a bit hollow for other applications.
2) Rode Stereo Videomic ~$399AUD (great stereo separation), picks up a bit of a camera rumble between 125 to 160 Hz (can fix in post with bass rolloff, the included 80Hz bass rolloff doesn't seem to help here).
3) DM-50 ~$320AUD does both directional (to both Channels) and Stereo. Does not seem as sensitive as the Rode mics and seems to have a freq cut of at ~<160Hz (doesn't seem to pick up the bass rumble). Stereo separation seems to be about the same as the internal HV20 mic on the Stereo 1 setting.

With all the above mics I've only been able to test them in a store environment (which not very quite) so I can't comment on whether any of these mics pick up the motor noise. I would imagine that the directional Rode Videomic and DM-50 would pick up less motor noise.

Does anyone have experience with these mics in a quieter environment?

Regards,

Merric

[PWHerman]

Mal, you said that you have a ton of Shotguns (mics, not guns, heh)...would you be willing to sell a good one off for cheap that you don't need/use anymore? I'm gettin my HV20 soon and I'd like a nice little mic for it to make it look cooler/better and get crisper sound (by no means going for anything professional, though). I was just going to get an ATR55 from eBay for about $50, so if you can offer me something nice similarly priced, I'd really appreciate it! (If not, I'll just end up getting the ATR55, I guess).

Thanks!

[Mal]

Mal, you said that you have a ton of Shotguns (mics, not guns, heh)...would you be willing to sell a good one off for cheap that you don't need/use anymore?


Hey,
well, no; I have a ton of shotguns and hypers, but they are:
1) NOT cheap (up to $1100.00 USD, cheapest probably about $150.00) and
2) as with many mics, they will; probably stay with me for as long as I do video. Mics, unlike MOST other electronic gear, doesn't really "get old" and can perform well for many, many years; which is exactly why I'd recommend to get the best mic[s] you can afford.

[jimbaran]

Hi Marshallarts.

I'm also on a tight budget and I've got similar questions. There are many out there who have more experience with mics than I do but I'm currently tossing up between the following:
1) Rode Videomic ~$150AUD (mono but delivers audio to both left and right channels) great for dialog but seems to sound a bit hollow for other applications.
2) Rode Stereo Videomic ~$399AUD (great stereo separation), picks up a bit of a camera rumble between 125 to 160 Hz (can fix in post with bass rolloff, the included 80Hz bass rolloff doesn't seem to help here).
3) DM-50 ~$320AUD does both directional (to both Channels) and Stereo. Does not seem as sensitive as the Rode mics and seems to have a freq cut of at ~<160Hz (doesn't seem to pick up the bass rumble). Stereo separation seems to be about the same as the internal HV20 mic on the Stereo 1 setting.

With all the above mics I've only been able to test them in a store environment (which not very quite) so I can't comment on whether any of these mics pick up the motor noise. I would imagine that the directional Rode Videomic and DM-50 would pick up less motor noise.

Does anyone have experience with these mics in a quieter environment?

Regards,

Merric

Hello All,

Can anyone help us to answer Marshallarts and Merric's question above? I am also trying to decide whether I should get the Canon DM-50 or Rode Videomic. Also, can anyone post a picture on how Rode Videomic looks with Canon HV20?

Please help...much appreciated.

Thanks.

Jimbaran

[marshallarts]

You will find that MOST dialogue is recorded in mono; even on major blockbuster movies the dialogue is recorded with single microphones.

However, since we are unlikely to add sound effects, etc. to our HV20 footage, I also agree that a stereo mic would probably be more suitable.
But it will depend on what you are shooting.

Mal, do you mean add sounds effects in FCP or on the master tape?? I guess i'm confused. In FCP adding sound effects wouldn't be an issue at all with mono dialogue. Are you referring to making use of another channel in the single track the HV20 records for audio? :hv20-smilie50:

I hate to ask because it seems dumb, but it's been bugging me and i'm about to make the purchase...


Also, the Canon DM-50 vs. the Rode mics -- wouldn't you be better off getting a Rode mic if you want the option to use it again in other situations. (i.e. Can't you only use the DM-50 on Canon camera through the smart hot-shoe?)

[Mal]

It completely depends on what you are shooting, is what i mean.

If you are shooting "holiday footage" having a stereo mic is worth it, as you will probably not add any other sounds to it, other than maybe music in you NLE.

If you are using the HV20 for a narrative piece or documentary film, I'd use the two channels of the HV20 for two separate single mics.

[sstberlin]

Hello Everyone. I am pleased I found this forum, and I have read the discussion thus far.

Prior to buying the HV20, I used a Canon Optura Pi which, unfortunately, recently died. It was a great camera. I post a series of talks on YouTube. Obviously for that I don't need high definition. After reading online reviews for days, I decided on the Canon HV20 since it offers both DV and HDV - and although I don't yet have a high definition TV, it made sense not to spend money on the back end of technology.

After testing this camera, I discovered that Adobe Premiere Elements 3.0 (or my older graphics card) can't handle HDV playback and editing, but again - although disappointing - this is not critically important for my current intended use. Standard definition captures and edits fine, and the smaller LED which worried my old eyes compensates amazingly thanks to its high brightness setting. I do agree with the person who complained about the firewire cover. It does seem to stay in place, but the fiddle factor is annoying, and I don't expect it will stand the test of time.

I have concluded that, overall, the camera is impressively functional and easy to use, but my one PRIMARY complaint is the hollow sound of the built-in microphone. The internal microphone on my Optura Pi was unbelievably better. My voice is quite deep and resonating and the Optura sounded very natural. This HV20 sounds like I am talking in a hissing cave dug out of the cheapest rock. I may have slightly skewed that comment on the harsh side. I'm sufficiently upset.

The internal microphone is OK for outside vacation footage I suppose, but totally unacceptable for my indoor presentations. And since I have never had to use an external mic before, can you sit the camera down without it toppling over? Seems to me like it would be very top heavy. My tripod is an ironing board. Stop laughing. It is handy for lights, a clock and cue cards.

I have only 7 more days to return the camera to Circuit City (which will require a $150 restocking fee). I am running out of time to be throwing money at microphones that might not do the trick - and may not even get here in time if it's necessary to order online.

So, I just need some straightforward, quick and honest, "If I were you, this is what I would do" or "If I were you, this is the microphone I would confidently buy."

Trusting strangers. That's a novel concept! My limit is about $200.

Thanks for your help. I'll contribute any results.

[marshallarts]

There's plenty options mentioned here and perhaps we're all overthinking the issue. For those that want to make sure we get the best possible option we are sort of obsessing over this. I think you ought to keep the camera and at the very least buy the least expensive solution. Look at Mals, options on the first page.

Mal, could you add this as an option to the list you created in the first page? Azden SMX-10 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/444022-REG/Azden_SMX10_SMX_10_Stereo_Microphone.html). I first read about its use on the HV20 here on dvinfo.net (http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91528&page=2) halfway down the page.

Also do you have any feedback on this mic. At $79 it is pretty inexpensive.


If you are shooting "holiday footage" having a stereo mic is worth it, as you will probably not add any other sounds to it, other than maybe music in you NLE.

If you are using the HV20 for a narrative piece or documentary film, I'd use the two channels of the HV20 for two separate single mics. Just to finally put this at rest in my mind. Are you referring to the ability to record 12bit audio "If you will dub audio or add a music track later with an external device" (Pg. 39 - HV20 manual)?? What kind of external device would you do this with and why bother if you can add as many tracks as you want in the NLE (FCP) and mix the final how you want it? I do agree using the stereo channels for the seperate mono mics is best when needed in narrative situations. Guess I'm confused why you even mention "adding sounds" to "it"(i.e. "it" seeming to be the tape itself). Sorry for making this confusing if it's a simple answer.

[Mal]

... Just to finally put this at rest in my mind. Are you referring to the ability to record 12bit audio...

No, I don't mean that at all.

What I mean is this: recording with a non-stereo mic to the HV20 will take away some of the characteristics of sounding natural. Although most dialogue is recorded in mono on professional productions, the footage most HV20 will be shooting won't be in a controlled environment, and shouldn't therefore be compared to pro set-ups.

Simply put:
a) I recommend a STEREO mic for the HV20 if you are shooting family/holiday footage.
b) I recommend MONO mics (plural!) for the HV20 if being used for short films, documentary work, etc.

[sstberlin]

Thank you MarshallArts for the reply. I just ordered the Azden SMX-10 from B&H.

In addition to the one reference you gave, I managed to find one other customer review that agreed the Azden SMX-10 is actually a very adequate mic for the price and a noticeable improvement over the HV20 internal mic. I am impressed that you recognized that if I was happy with the internal mic of my Canon Optura Pi, I didn't need to spend too much just to reach at least that level. I also like the fact that the Azden is smaller than most other choices which I think might be more balanced for my primary intended stationary use with this size camera.

I realized before purchasing it that the HV20 is a respected choice, but the sound simply knawed at me, and I have never owned an external mic. So, if keeping a very good camera means being open to trying something new, I am more than willing to do that.

Sorry for sounding like I was "obsessing," but I was really uncertain about all of this and running out of time. Hopefully the silver-lining will be an additional decent microphone option for some other owners of the HV20.

Discovering this Forum and getting a quick reasonable response was another important factor in making my decision to keep the camera.

Thanks again. I'll be back with the outcome.

[africanmarty]

i'm using the rode video mic and its works flawlessly... no complaints here, heres some pics :

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12301370546.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5379014)
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12301370579.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5379013)
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12301370565.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5379012)
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12301370448.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5379011)

- regards Marty.

[Hansb]

I have tried the Rode Video mic on 2 HV20's and the cameras don't seem to like the line level signal - the cameras default back to the built-in mic. Is there a setting that allows a line level signal into the mic input, or do you have to use the mic on the manual program settings? I would like to use the Rode but can't get it to work. Any suggestions?

[sp8ce07]

I would try a manufacturers reset on the camera to eliminate any pre-altered settings that may effect your line in levels. It's listed in another thread posted today on the site.

[marshallarts]

africanmarty,

what bag do you use to fit your HV20 with your videomic?

I just bought a Rode NTG-2 mic and have very much outgrown my LowePro 160 Edit with the new appendage.

What bags/cases are you using for your full setup (a mattebox would further take up space)

[dmoreno]

I have tried the Rode Video mic on 2 HV20's and the cameras don't seem to like the line level signal - the cameras default back to the built-in mic. Is there a setting that allows a line level signal into the mic input, or do you have to use the mic on the manual program settings? I would like to use the Rode but can't get it to work. Any suggestions?

Turn on MIC ATT (microphone attenuator) in the REC/IN SETUP submenu (second from top to bottom). Hope that helps.

[white_2kgt]

Here's some pics of the Rode Stereo VideoMic on an HV20,

http://www.2kgt.com/gallery/d/14022-1/IMG_3553.JPG

http://www.2kgt.com/gallery/d/14026-1/IMG_3554.JPG

http://www.2kgt.com/gallery/d/14029-1/IMG_3555.JPG

http://www.2kgt.com/gallery/d/14032-1/IMG_3556.JPG

And one w/ the dead kitten attached,
http://www.2kgt.com/gallery/d/14035-1/IMG_3557.JPG

With the dead kitten it looks like I will have to make certain none of the 'hairs' are in front of the lens. This probably should be eliminated once I get a wideangle and hood (still waiting for that comparison!! :)). Haven't had a chance to do any decent testing, a few minutes w/ the headphones on and walking around the house showed that it had a much wide 'range'. IE it picked up more distinct sounds, if that makes sense. Nobody's home right now to talk/make noise and I'm not videoing myself talking jibberish :).

Oh and BHVideo rocks, I just ordered this thing yesterday!!! I guess it helps we are just a few states away.

[PWHerman]

Haha, that thing is humongous! Bigger than the HV20 just about! Really looks like a dead kitten... :o

[masher500]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/Masher500/IMG_0146.jpg

I had to go with the ntg2 rode mic.. I just got it, not to heavy at all compared to my GL2. I just need to get to the store so i can get a battery!!!!!

[marshallarts]

masher, I went with the Rode NTG-2 myself (no pics available:hv20-smilie70:). Instead of the beachtek I just got a Rode converter cable and am plugged straight in. No problem yet but I haven't really had a chance to use it.

[masher500]

masher, I went with the Rode NTG-2 myself (no pics available:hv20-smilie70:). Instead of the beachtek I just got a Rode converter cable and am plugged straight in. No problem yet but I haven't really had a chance to use it.

i have used the converter before on another mic, but the weight of the cable puts a little strain on the actual connector (it was kind of a bad design) which would cause static at times when the cable moved. I wanted to go XLR all the way just so i know i have good quality sound, and a solid connetion. With all that crap on that tiny camcorder it still is way lighter than my gl2 ever was.:hv20-smilie77:

[aonindy]

Anyone come across this chap? ... seems nice and neat / does not dwarf the cam itself!?

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31c4PwwzAKL._SS500_.gif


http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MKE-300-Microphone/dp/B00005UQIH/ref=sr_1_14/103-4972028-3543858?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1183594048&sr=1-14

[PWHerman]

Anyone come across this chap? ... seems nice and neat / does not dwarf the cam itself!?

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31c4PwwzAKL._SS500_.gif


http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MKE-300-Microphone/dp/B00005UQIH/ref=sr_1_14/103-4972028-3543858?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1183594048&sr=1-14

Taky has the MKE-300...here's a picture of his set-up. Kinda dwarfs the camera but I personally like the look. It also doesn't get in the way of the HV20, even at its widest setting. Perhaps Taky will chime in and add to that.

http://hv20.info/yopu/tos1.jpg

[marshallarts]

I completely forgot it came with a remote! Too bad you can't pull focus with it. Where did he get that IR cable from the remote to the camera???

[Stefan_hv20]

I completely forgot it came with a remote! Too bad you can't pull focus with it. Where did he get that IR cable from the remote to the camera???

See this thread (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=364&highlight=remote)...
It's just a simple optical wire.

[zephyrnoid]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I ran informal tests in a Best Buy store a month ago:
1) Sennheiser ME66/K6 >
2) Sony ECMMS907
3) Built-in Onboard Mic
I generally feed the Shotgun through an field mixer and connect my headphones there too. This was the best audio albeit, with more hassle and bulk. The front of the mic did not show in the frame but I'm certain in would with a wide-angle.
I really liked the Sony ECMMS907 for grab&Go and just need to find an adapter to mount it onto the hotshoe.
The built in mic is great for getting those crappy "I'm a confirmed amateur- don't bug me" recordings.Otherwise, I'm always going to go external.

[Goose]

Slightly OT but does anyone know where the cheapest place to buy the DM-50 is in the UK (or to import from abroad)? I think I saw it a while back for about £110 is that about right?

Cheers

[acoustiking]

Sima:
- MZM-1 - $35.00


I am just shooting family/fun stuff so I picked up the Sima on eBay for ~$32 total. I like it...doesn't pick up any motor noise. It has a short cord to plug into the mic input so no dangly wires. The function choices are off, norm & zoom. I used the zoom choice at my daughters gymanstics meet and it picked up the running on the mats and landings well. For the money paired with the fact I am not up to any crazy productions, it does the trick well.
Plus I always forget to turn it off and the 1 AAA battery still works after 3 weeks!

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/acoustiking/P1050387.jpg

[marshallarts]

I'd be really interested to hear how how the SIMA compares to the DM-50?? Anybody with experience with both have any opinions?

I already have a Rode NTG-2 which definitely is better quality but the thing is so huge it's stopping me from taking my HV20 everywhere like I used to. It's not nearly as inconspicuous. I'd like to find a smaller solution for those casual uses.

EDIT: after doing research on the web I decided against this mic. Some really bad reviews on Amazon convinced me. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/B0008D5FPE/sr=8-1/qid=1184124896/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful/002-3075711-2258428?ie=UTF8&n=172282&qid=1184124896&sr=8-1#customerReviews

[sp8ce07]

Would it be reasonable to assume the following:

The default, internal mic would be the lowest item on the totem-poll of the following...

Rode Stereo Videomic
Rode Videomic (Mono)
HV-20 Internal, default mic

What I'm getting at is, even though I may be filiming family events and vacations...and an ideal mic for that is a stereo based one -- wouldn't it still produce (the video/mono) better quality that my internal default.

Concluding, though the Stereomic is ideal for my settings, it is safe to assume that the videomic would produce more realistic audio than the internal/default mic.

[jirob]

I picked up the Sima on eBay for ~$32 total. I like it...
Hi. Is this a stereo mic?

[Rocha]

It's mono by the looks of it. Here are the best specs I could find:

http://www.simaproducts.com/support/files/MZM-1_instruction_sheet.pdf

[acoustiking]

I threw the package out, but as I'm working on my timeline, the audio levels are definitely seperately "bouncing". This is NOT a mic that I would count on for event videography. I got it so I can have a non-obtrusive mic that would hopefully catch better audio than the onboard mic...which I think it does. The mic mount a little 'flimsy' on the shoe, but I personally like it as it lets me be my clutsy self when I'm whipping it out for a quick shot while on the go. The low end isn't that great, but I've boosted it up in post to my liking. It picks up the voice range well IMO. I wasn't expecting the world with a $35 mic, but it's small, has a short cord, works better than the onboard, and it's easily removed if i don't want it.

...see the 1/8" plug to see the two rings which means stereo in my book

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/acoustiking/P1050428.jpg

[Rocha]

You may very well be right on the stereo part, but you should be able to discern that in post though. That willl tell us for shure.

Anyway I just picked one up on ebay for US$5.50 and US$4.00 postage. Not sure when I'll get it, but if this $10.00 mic is better than on board, all the better. If it's not good enough I might go for an Azden SMX 10.

For anyone interested there is another one to be had here, same seller:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SIMA-MZM-1-Mini-Camcorder-Zoom-Microphone_W0QQitemZ220128088069QQihZ012QQcategory Z22788QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[acoustiking]

You may very well be right on the stereo part, but you should be able to discern that in post though. That willl tell us for shure.



In post, the levels on each channel seem to be seperate...I use in zoom so the stereo separation probably isn't all that great. When I tape bands with shotgun mics on a stand, the stereo separation isn't that great either, though those mics are just a tad better than this camera mic. Check out this unreleated thread below which I've posted screen shots of the video properties, which does state the the audio is stereo.

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1102

[scsz]

Rode Videomic owners-question for you. How does the mic work for interviews. I attend a lot car shows and would like to interview car owners. How far away could I stand? Would it pick up much of the surrounding ambient noise (other cars, people talking etc)? Thanks.

[Rikki]

scsz - Good question, thats one thing I didnt do with mine at the car show I was at yesterday.

When I did speak to people I was muffled (behind the mic/cam) but everything in front was pretty good.

R

[Erik Bien]

Hi scsz,

The (mono) VideoMic is quite good at picking your subject out of a noisy background -- I shot BTS footage for an indie feature last summer using mine and I was really impressed (for example, a conversation between the director and the fire chief came through clearly, even though they were standing about 40 feet in front of a building that was burning to the ground!).

That said, a hand-held or lavalier mic would be even better for interviews: a cheap microphone close to the speaker almost always sounds better than a more expensive mic placed far away.

[Skrytsson]

It would be nice if you could upload some audio where you both use the internal and external mic (inserting the mic plug after some seconds). Then we would be able to hear the difference.


I concur; we really need to hear what these mics can do.
Will definitely upload, once I get some mics here (this week, hopefully).

I strongly agree. Haven't anyone uploaded a test (with e.g. the VideoMic) ?

[PWHerman]

I strongly agree. Haven't anyone uploaded a test (with e.g. the VideoMic) ?

YES:

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=962

[Skrytsson]

Oh thanks!

[PWHerman]

My pleasure!

[BONLEV]

I received my HV20 yesterday but the internal mic is horrible for me. Has anyone has a small external mic that fits on the HV20 with a good (better than the onboard) sound? If I see the pictures with the rode videomic is huge :(

Anyone?

[sp8ce07]

there are several mentioned in this thread.

[BONLEV]

does anyone has pictures of the canon DM-50 placed on the HV20?
The sima is not big but nobody likes this one on amazon.com

[Ten Ounce]

Great mic. Looks a lil something like this...

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o253/alphaelectronics/P9020057.jpg

[acoustiking]

Somebody privately asked me to upload an audio sample with the MZM1 mic. Well I did a little 40 second test with the MZM1, and then played the same audio for the onboard mic. I just scooted away from my computer desk and played the same song twice, recording from the same spot, for a comparison. As a note, my audio system for my computer is quite nice so the source material is A+ in my book. Audio is 320kbs MP3's

MZM1 audio
http://hv20.info/yopu/HV20 with MZM1.mp3

Onboard audio
http://hv20.info/yopu/HV20 onboard mic.mp3

My personal take on the results...DON'T WASTE YOUR @$!%^@ MONEY ON THIS MIC. Man, I got taken. I have used it for the "zoom"/shotgun capability and just bumped it on the low end in post. But after recording some fuller audio (Just talking/activity was done originally), this thing will collect dust now unless I'm desperate. Onward with the search for a decent small mic!

[BONLEV]

Thanks for this test! The onboard mic is better then the sima does...
The search goes on.

[marshallarts]

thanks for the up acoustiking. And nice mix by the way.

[TimS]

Some interesting looking contraptions here !

Questions for Ten Ounce - what sort of lens hood is that ?

Do you find the Canon mount transmits much handling noise?

Does the DM50 reduce the battery life by a noticeable amount?

Many thanks

[Ten Ounce]

Some interesting looking contraptions here !

Questions for Ten Ounce - what sort of lens hood is that ?

Do you find the Canon mount transmits much handling noise?

Does the DM50 reduce the battery life by a noticeable amount?

Many thanks

1. The lens hood is made by Fotodiox. It can be purchased here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/43mm-Square-Hood-for-Digital-Video-Camera-Silver_W0QQitemZ7621902215QQihZ017QQcategoryZ64329 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

2. By canon mount, do you mean the camera strap, or where the microphone mounts? Not sure I understand what you mean there...

3. The DM-50 does use up some extra battery power, but I haven't noticed it draining it that bad. I was able to record a family event this weekend and still had some extra to record a boxing workout I had in the afternoon. I guess it all just depends on how you use your camera.

[TimS]

Thanks for the prompt response Ten Ounce.

I meant the hot-shoe to microphone connection - the hard plastic bit with switches on it by the looks of it.

[zephyrnoid]

I've been shooting my first footage with this mic ( previously used for interviews along with my Sony MD recorder)
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r105/nikoncp5k/HV20_1.jpg
I like the sound and even managed to pick up intelligible spoken audio as far away as 200' over water ( a dock )
I do detect some noise so I don't know that I'll use this set up for anything other than grab & shoot. I also have a Sennheiser ME66/K6 that I'll use if I can get an assistant on shoots. I also have a decent sony lav for better interview audio, when there's time to wire the talent. In these two later cases I use an Azden field deck to make the XLR>mini conversion and to control levels better. Some day I'll muster the cash for a good wireless set up, but for now, I hardly need more mics !

[scsz]

Rikki & Erik, thanks for you replies.



That said, a hand-held or lavalier mic would be even better for interviews: a cheap microphone close to the speaker almost always sounds better than a more expensive mic placed far away.

I have a wireless set up with a hand held mic and lavalier. Went to a car show this weekend and did a few interviews with the wireless/hand held set up. Worked pretty good I think.
http://www.socalspeedzone.com/pages/interviews.html
I still ordered the Rode Videomic. I think for certain situations it will be easier. The wireless setup as it is can be a pain as it is more to carry (mic/transmitter), more weight on the camera (receiver) and have to make sure the interviewee holds it close enough. The Videomic will be easier and faster I think, but maybe a little less quality.

[sstberlin]

Here is my non-expert, non-audiophile review of the Azden SMX-10 external stereo microphone for the HV20. I ordered it from B&H.

The Azden SMX-10 is very nice in terms of proportional size to the camera. It extends 3" above the camera and 3" to the front. Whatever it weighs (not much). I don't seem to notice any additional weight when filming. It has an audio switch with two choices: Low Cut Filter ON (reduces low frequency sounds and increases clarity) and Low Cut Filter OFF (for flat response and maximum bass). I was a little disappointed in the results. With the switch OFF, it sounded just as described - "flat" and bass. With the switch ON, the increased clarity was obvious, but at the expense of my sense for depth and resonance. Since I have a baritone voice, it sounded to me (and my family) as slightly too treble. After reading all of the pros and cons of microphone choices for this camera, I am unwilling to spend more money at this point for what may not be better results. I must admit, though, that I have been thoroughly fascinated and confused by the many photos of shockmounts, cords, cables, connections, dead cats etc., which (for my use) would probably be ludicrous.

I was surprised to discover that there is no power light to remind me to turn the microphone off, and how will I know when my battery is getting low? Before I use it, I have to unscrew the microphone into two halves without stripping the threads, remove the battery, and then test it in a little "battery-level" device I bought at Ace Hardware. How long does one AAA battery last in a microphone? I have no idea. Using the menu, I set the camera to show me the "audio meter" on my LCD, but I really doubt if I'll notice a flatline when engrossed in my subject. Good grief. The chance of shooting an important video and discovering that the battery died and you have no audio is troubling. Be very careful. Anyone can inadvertently insert a bad battery.

The plastic mount on the SMX-10 slides easily onto the HV20 and seems adequate for the weight and size of the mic. The input wire is cosmetically unobtrusive. I have not tested the foam windscreen, but it looks fairly typical and - if nothing else - probably offers some protection from damage.

The Azden is more "directional" than I expected. When I film in a group or at a party, I really sound like I am "behind" the camera, which to some extent seems to minimize the narration. In quiet places the Azden picks up a little camera noise, and whereas I wish it didn't, I don't think most people would notice it. All in all, I do not regret the purchase for under $90. I am hoping I can improve even more on the sound with my computer. I was using Adobe Premiere Elements in Windows. I just ordered a new iMac with Final Cut Express. I guess you could say that the shortcomings of this camera have cost me a small fortune (or benefited me greatly - depending on your point of view, and what I ultimately learn from this experience).

Before closing I want to point out one significant bug in the camera itself. If this should be posted in some other thread, I hope the moderators will be kind enough to paste this section in the most appropriate place. Thanks.

The HV20's AV/HEADPHONES setting WILL HOLD (after the camera has been turned off and back on) in programmable Record mode, but WILL NOT HOLD in Playback mode. If your headphones are plugged in when you turn on your HV20 for playback, you will hear the loud unpleasant buzz all the way across the room. If you are wearing the headphones at the time, you will not be happy.

Furthermore - AND WORSE - if you use the "component output" to hook up your HV20 to an HD-television that has component inputs rather than the newer HDMI, you will need to use the camera's headphone jack to output to your television's audio input jacks. Invite your friends and family over, turn on your sleek new Canon HV20 to play back some impressive HD video, and watch them all get zapped into cardiac arrest by the loud electronic shock that blasts out of your television speakers - while you FUMBLE IN PANIC with the camera joystick to switch from AV to Headphones!!

Here is the embarrassment work-around. BEFORE you turn on your camera, MUTE the sound on your television. Then jump through the menu hoops to turn the camera to Headphones. THEN unMute your television sound and impress everyone with the remarkable (visual) beauty that this camera can produce.

As critical as I may sound, technology is amazing, and I recognize I could not build any camera if I lived a thousand lifetimes.

Take good care. /Stephen

[sean90291]

What shockmount are you using with the HV20's hot shoe?

There's this one (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Pro-Hot-Shoe-Shotgun-Mic-Shock-Mount-Adapter_W0QQitemZ130136310320QQihZ003QQcategoryZ33 19QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) that I thought I might use with a Sennheiser ME-66/

[TimS]

sstberlin,

Rest assured that your non-expert non-audiophile review came in very handy to me. I read it the moment I got off the phone from ordering an SMX-10.

Oh bugger yes, the battery issue is a worry. If it is claimed to have a 400 hour lifetime with a single AAA battery (or whatever it is) though, so I would think that a quick 5 or so second test (and playback to check for sound) after loading each new 1 hour MiniDv tape would be quite prudent. OR, just replace the battery after every couple of dozen tapes. Batteries are fairly cheap so perhaps a good insurance policy ?!

I appreciate the review - it is by and large THE most detailed I have found and quite timely.

TimS

[sajid]

My tripod is an ironing board.
Damn, Why didnt I think of that? Nice tip!

(and handy review)

[manbart]

I got this mike and an HV20 about a week ago. It works very well for picking up voice. I get no noticeable camera motor noise. It's a little large but is manageable.

[Reyman]

Hi,

I just got my HV20 and recorded my first amateur sports event.
As everyone says, awesome HD video, poor audio.

Any suggestions what microphone would be best for recording sports?
Indoor and outdoor.
I don't expect to record too many interviews.

Regards,
Rey

P.S. This is a really informative website!

[DirectorDarren]

I got a Rode NTG2 for my HV20 works amazingly well the sound quality is fantastic.
I had to buy a few XLR to 3.5mm jack leads before getting the one that would work.
Any with a Preamp built in I recommend the Griffin Garage Band cable.
I still have to try it out with an XLR extension cable as its only 5ft long.

[DirectorDarren]

Hi,

I just got my HV20 and recorded my first amateur sports event.
As everyone says, awesome HD video, poor audio.

Any suggestions what microphone would be best for recording sports?
Indoor and outdoor.
I don't expect to record too many interviews.

Regards,
Rey

P.S. This is a really informative website!


I would go with the Rode Stereo mic since your recording sports your gonna want the sound of the crowd cheering. I have had very good experience with rode products so far although I cant say Ive tried the stereo mic.

[Doctor F.]

I do quite a bit of videoing of bands at local venues where it is usually impossible to obtain a complete mix of the instruments and vocals from the mixing desk. This means I have to use an onboard (external) mike that needs to be physically small. Anyone who has watched a live band in a British pub will appreciate the cramped conditions you have to work in.

Can anyone advise on the best mikes to use for live (usually loud !) music recording. I prefer to record in stereo, but for long distances from the stage I assume a shotgun mike (mono) whould be better. I have been thinking (from reading this thread) the RODE STEREO VIDEOMIC or Canon DM-50 as there doesn’t seem to be much choice when considering stereo capability.

Anyone tried the T-bone EM9600 for long distance ?
http://www.thomann.de/gb/microphones_for_video.html

These video clips should give some idea of the recording scenario.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3390478681710366857 (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3390478681710366857) (Large pub)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5275009810874871256 (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5275009810874871256) (Festival – outside)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3447855736876385041 (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3447855736876385041)(Small pub – relatively quite )
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8852335263306276733 (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8852335263306276733) (Small pub - packed)

The above clips were recorded with a Panasonic GS400 (hand held) and Yoga EM-278 stereo mike (attached to the shoe), the mike bought from Maplin in the UK. (cheap at £20 ($40) and not too bad for music recording but want an improvement).

I was previously the proud owner of a Panasonic GS400, which after only 18 months went faulty and couldn’t be repaired (Panasonic wasn’t able to provide spare parts):hv20-smilie36:. Luckily I had extended warranty, which covers the cost of buying a brand new HV20:hv20-smilie03:. I am hoping for better low light level performance, which wasn’t that brilliant on the GS400.

A further question, as I am still awaiting delivery of the HV20, I would appreciate some advice on the manual control of the audio input. Is it correct that the sound level can be adjusted while you are recording (it is unclear from reading the manual) and if so how easy is it to do this while you are recording. This couldn’t be done on the Panasonic and I had to build a separate mike input volume control for real-time control of sound levels.

Thanks for an excellent forum, the advice and experiences available here have been of great assistance and I haven’t even got my hands on my HV20 yet !

[Stefan_hv20]

[FONT=Arial][COLOR=lightblue]A further question, as I am still awaiting delivery of the HV20, I would appreciate some advice on the manual control of the audio input. Is it correct that the sound level can be adjusted while you are recording (it is unclear from reading the manual) and if so how easy is it to do this while you are recording. This couldn’t be done on the Panasonic and I had to build a separate mike input volume control for real-time control of sound levels.

Thanks for an excellent forum, the advice and experiences available here have been of great assistance and I haven’t even got my hands on my HV20 yet !


It's very easy...
Just remember the camera doesn't support mic level adjustment in AUTO, so you must be switched to "P" in order to have this function to work.

Just press the FUNC while recording. (It's the little joystick)
Click down until you got the MIC symbol in the display.
Click up to activate the mic level control. You will see a small "m" symbol naer the mic level bar.
Move the joystick left or right to in- or decrease the mic level.
That's it!

[vrbhu]

Hi,
I am very much new to this sound world.
I just got my HV20 couple of weeks back and did some shooting with internal mic.
Then I read the posts here and bought the Rode video Mic(mono). But somehow I am not able to get the best out of that mic, so I have a couple of doubts on that:
1. When I put the mic attenuation ON, it reduces the overall sound. So the dialogs get extremely low in audio level. But when I set the attenuation OFF, I get a good audio level for the dialog but too much of surronding noise and hiss. Pleae help which setting should I use?
2.Somewhere here in the forum I read that I should use two mono mics for dialogs. Is that so?
3. I am trying to record some music from my synthesizer with this Mic, but not sure why I am not getting a quality recording with this. Does anybody have any idea about this?

Please help me out with this problem..

Thanks
Vivek

[Reyman]

I would go with the Rode Stereo mic since your recording sports your gonna want the sound of the crowd cheering. I have had very good experience with rode products so far although I cant say Ive tried the stereo mic.

Thanks, Darren.
I will research that Rode stereo microphone.

Rey

[vrbhu]

Can somebody please look at my problem.
I have always got an answer from this forum:)

Viv

[Doctor F.]

It's very easy...

Just remember the camera doesn't support mic level adjustment in AUTO, so you must be switched to "P" in order to have this function to work.

Just press the FUNC while recording. (It's the little joystick)
Click down until you got the MIC symbol in the display.
Click up to activate the mic level control. You will see a small "m" symbol near the mic level bar.
Move the joystick left or right to in- or decrease the mic level.
That's it!

Thanks Stefan, you couldn't be more right when you said it was "very easy" (just received my HV20). Kept turning the manual control on and off by mistake, until I realised that Click Up actually toggles the manual control on and off. The joystick is very precise and accurate to use, life is now going to be much easier than with the Panasonic GS400.
I will be recording a band (at practice) tonight, so looking forward to playing with/learning the controls.


1. When I put the mic attenuation ON, it reduces the overall sound. So the dialogs get extremely low in audio level. But when I set the attenuation OFF, I get a good audio level for the dialog but too much of surrounding noise and hiss. Please help which setting should I use?


Can somebody please look at my problem.
I have always got an answer from this forum
Viv

Viv, I have just received my HV20 and I have been trying out the audio controls and I haven't noticed any problems when using the internal mic. I am just about to try with a (relatively cheap) external mic (I don't have the Rode VideoMic).
- Do you notice the same problem with the internal mic ?
- Are you manually adjusting the sound level ? If you don't have it on manual control the mic level is adjusted automatically with the result that on quite sections the gain is increased with the result that even low ambient sounds can be recorded at high levels.
- Can you provide a sample of the sound (mp3 should be okay) ?
- You shouldn't need the mic attenuator on (I think it must give at least a 20dB reduction on the input level) for recording speech, but with loud music it might be required.

[hvheinz]

Hi all:hv20-smilie70:
I'm newbie from europe and following with interest your comments.
Got a new hv20 (PAL) since a few weeks.
About sound: has one information about the new Sennheiser MKE 400 ?

Would appreciate any feedback. The microphone looks pretty smart:
small, own AAA battery, etc.
Think this could become a runner for the HV20

[masher500]

I got a Rode NTG2 for my HV20 works amazingly well the sound quality is fantastic.
I had to buy a few XLR to 3.5mm jack leads before getting the one that would work.
Any with a Preamp built in I recommend the Griffin Garage Band cable.
I still have to try it out with an XLR extension cable as its only 5ft long.

man i have the same mic, and im having a rough time getting good audio out of it... i have to turn the gain all the way up for the mic to pick up peoples voices, and then there is tons of static!.

[CJDaniels]

I would go with the Rode Stereo mic since your recording sports your gonna want the sound of the crowd cheering. I have had very good experience with rode products so far although I cant say Ive tried the stereo mic.

I got the Rode Stereo Mic ($169) a day before I left for a 5 week vacation to Europe. I will try to get some samples up this week.

[Tomtebo]

do it !

[vrbhu]

Hi Doctor F.,
Sorry for this late reply.

- Do you notice the same problem with the internal mic ? - YES
- Are you manually adjusting the sound level ? If you don't have it on manual control the mic level is adjusted automatically with the result that on quite sections the gain is increased with the result that even low ambient sounds can be recorded at high levels. I am manually adjusting sound control. I have set the audio level at 12db( at 75% as advised by rode mic manual)
- Can you provide a sample of the sound (mp3 should be okay) ? I will in sometime
- You shouldn't need the mic attenuator on (I think it must give at least a 20dB reduction on the input level) for recording speech, but with loud music it might be required. - Not sure of this. Stil having the same
problem.

What others say???People please help me out?

[Doctor F.]

Hi Doctor F.,
Sorry for this late reply.

- Do you notice the same problem with the internal mic ? - YES

Hello vrbhu,
This is what my HV20 sounds like, recording on internal and external mic (a Yoga EM-268 Stereo Condenser Microphone, cost £25, about $50)), mic attenuator OFF. I was about 2 feet away from the mic and set the audio level manually at approximately 12 dB (max).
http://hv20.info/yopu/JRF_HV20_Sound_Test_IntExt.mp3 (http://hv20.info/yopu/JRF_HV20_Sound_Test_IntExt.mp3)

On internal mic there is quite a bit of motor noise, which I can hear when I put my ear close to the HV20.
With the external mic it is pretty quite, as you would expect/hope for.

If you are getting significantly higher levels of noise when recording with the internal mic, then I would suspect something is wrong with your HV20 and probably not with the Rode.
Have you tested the Rode straight into an amplifier (or PC mic input) ? Is it okay when tested in this way ?

[DaFireMedic]

This is my first visit to this thread, but I have now tried 3 mics with the HV20.

1. Rode Videomic
2. Sennheiser MKE-300
3. Sima MZM-1

I still have the Rode and the Sima, I sold the MKE-300. The Sennheiser was a good mic, but I had to sell one mic for money for other goodies.

The Rode is the best of the three, offering a bit better pick up than the Sennheiser. The shock mount also seems to be more effective, although certainly bulkier.

The Sima is the interesting one. I picked it up for $10 on Amazon used. It sits fairly close to the camera, and I do notice it picking up some camera noise, albeit slight. Where it surprisingly shines is on the end of a boom pole. Get the mic away from the camera and it does a pretty good job, better than one would expect from such an inexpensive mic. I could also see it being a cheap alternative to more expensive mics if a flash bracket were used to move it away from the camera. It can't compete with the Rode, or the Sennheiser for that matter, but IMHO is better than the on board mic. For $10, I'll keep it as a back up.

[hvheinz]

Hi all,
following with interest this thread....
about to evaluate an external MIC and found this one ....
http://www.ohrwurmaudio.de/o_beschr.html
Sorry...this again in german...but could help to translate.
Someone out there with experience on such kind of MIC ????
Would appreciate any feedback !!
Most probably will buy one and could share experience later if of interest

Happy filming !
P.S. go to "Tonbeispiele" and download some amayzing sound

[scsz]

Used the Rode Videomic at a car show this weekend. Very impressed with it's performance on the cars driving by. Here is an example, you can hear the air coming from the velocity stacks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSLycyzzdHU

[zephyrnoid]

Well. I ran my first controlled Mic test tonight and have this brief report
Mics tested and hook-up
1) Built in Mic. Nope! I couldn't be bothered with that.
2) Sony ECM MC907 >3.5mm into the HV20 Directly
3) Sony ECM 44B Lav >XLR> Axden FMX2 > 3.5mm >HV20
4) Sennheiser ME66/K6>XLR> Axden FMX2 > 3.5mm >HV20

Subject was a person sitting 7' away in a typical talking head interview indoors, no meaningful ambient noise.

Results:
1) Built in Mic. Nope! I couldn't be bothered with that.
2) Sony ECM MC907 >3.5mm into the HV20 Directly
This a stereo mic powered by a AA battery and has 90º and a 120º angles setting in addition to On/Off. I've used it mainly for Mini-Disc Interviews in the past. Feeding straight into the HV20 I used the camera's mic levels adjustment to keep levels in range. Basically, cranked up all the way and at a satisfactory level, hiss is noticeable. Tuning it down resulted in an acceptebale though not ideal level. The spoken voice was realistic, recognizable as the person and frankly, undistorted! Obviously, evem at 90º it accepts a fairly wide field, roughly matched to the HV20's lens at Wide. I use this on the camera as a "fits in the bag- run and gun" improvement over the built-in mic.
3) Sony ECM 44B Lav >XLR> Axden FMX2 > 3.5mm >HV20
Someone wrote elsewhere in this thread that a lesser mic close to the subject, produces better audio than a better mic at a distance, referencing the inverse square rule. I agree! The lav fed into the mixer and audio adjusted at the mixer, resulted in a beautifully ( dare I say hauntingly?) isolated voice that- though two dimensional, had far more presence than the Sony camera mounted stereo mic. Having external control of a mic's level seems to result in much better audio than just feeding a mic straight into the HV20.
4) Sennheiser ME66/K6>XLR> Axden FMX2 > 3.5mm >HV20
This venerable shotgun was hand-held close to the camera and again,level adjusted via the mixer. WOW! that's big sound. It delivered the fullness and presence of the Lav but with much more dimensionality. Which is what one would expect from a shotgun that's also picking up reflected sound.
So I guess the Sennheiser ME66/K6 had the fullest and most pleasing sound, though not quite as realistic as the stereo mic. The big question for me is how it would compare against the Rode VideoMic or a shorter shotgun.

[VideJo]

@hvheinz:

The Ohrwurm gets great appreciation from other users in Holland. No doubt worth buying one.

[VideJo]

As I only shoot on our voyages, I prefered to buy a stereo mic.
So I bought myself a Rode SVM. The results were above expectations! Very bright!
On some issues: Rode advises not to use it to record voice over a distance of 2 meters and the mic can be attached to a boom, using a elongation cord of max. 3 meters.
The Deadcat indeed has long fur. So I was afraid these hairs might be visible, when I have my WA on. So I considered making an appointment with my personal hairdresser. But before I came to that, I found that the Rycote Windjammer I used on my Sony VX2000 fits perfectly. So anyone with the same issue could consider using this as well.

[Yutu Masterpiece]

Random question, if you use a external mic that isn't the Canon DM50 or whatever its called, do you have to pay seperately for a stand to hold the microphone on the camera?

[darosk]

Random question, if you use a external mic that isn't the Canon DM50 or whatever its called, do you have to pay seperately for a stand to hold the microphone on the camera?

I think they fit into the camera's built-in hotshoe (at least the Rode and the Canon do, I think...)

[Ten Ounce]

Random question, if you use a external mic that isn't the Canon DM50 or whatever its called, do you have to pay seperately for a stand to hold the microphone on the camera?

They all connect to the cameras hot shoe. The Rode Videomic however can also be mounted on a boompole or minitripod as well.

[apple]

I have a question about Sony ECM-Z37C

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=8902&A=details&Q=&sku=225508&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation


Has anyone used this mic? I can not find any reviews.

I am looking for a small sized mic that will not pick up motor noise. I am not planning to do any "professional" shooting.

Thanks in advance

[amshv20]

Hi all,

I am going with the Taky suggestion of grabbing some digital voice recorders and lavs to sync with video later. Anyone have comments on dss vs. wma files? Trying to find the difference, and which produces better quality. Thoughts?

Thanks.

[w.pasman]

The Sennheiser above is a Sennheiser MKE300
It is mono, has mini-phone mono 3.5mm connector and weighs 2.1oz
super cardioid (which is another word for shotgun if I get this right),
It has its own battery and is around $160 ex VAT etc.

[w.pasman]

It seemed to me that the built-in mic changes its characteristics with the zoom level that you have. Can you do something similar with external mics?

[Box of Chocolates]

I'm looking to hook up a ME66 mic (an XLR mic) to my HV20 and I was looking at some adapters in order to do so.

I was wondering what the difference in functionality (when it comes to simply converting XLR to 3.5mm stereo) is between the Beachtek DXA-2s:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2258/21012007beachtekdxa2ssmxv0.jpg

and this simple adapter:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3082/14850pj5.jpg

Thanks!

[lasssman]

Furthermore - AND WORSE - if you use the "component output" to hook up your HV20 to an HD-television that has component inputs rather than the newer HDMI, you will need to use the camera's headphone jack to output to your television's audio input jacks. Invite your friends and family over, turn on your sleek new Canon HV20 to play back some impressive HD video, and watch them all get zapped into cardiac arrest by the loud electronic shock that blasts out of your television speakers - while you FUMBLE IN PANIC with the camera joystick to switch from AV to Headphones!!I am new to this forum, and don't even have my own HV-20 (yet - it's on order). But in a totally different forum, I came across this comment:
"As you are plugging the earbud into a A/V jack, the static you hear is the video signal. You need to create a special cable that only connects to the audio section of the tip/ring/ring/sleeve jack."
Is this any help to you?

[TheDingo]

I was wondering what the difference in functionality (when it comes to simply converting XLR to 3.5mm stereo) is between the Beachtek DXA-2s:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2258/21012007beachtekdxa2ssmxv0.jpg

and this simple adapter:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3082/14850pj5.jpg



The BeachTek offers a number of additional features:

- Ground lift switch ( helps to kill grounding hum )

- You can select between MIC and LINE levels for each channel

- Each channel has a trim-pot, that allows you to adjust the signal balance between two different mics

- Stereo / Mono switch ( two seperate mics, one mic for both channels, two mics mixed across both channels )


:D

[zephyrnoid]

Nicely Put!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/zephyrnoid/HV20_1.jpg
Here's the total line up so far:
- Bracket1 for the HV20
- Hoodman LCD hood
- Canon HV20 with standard lens
- Accessory Raynox.66X Wide lens adapter + 77mm round lenshood
- Sennheiser ME66+K6 + DIY 'GattoMuerte'
- Right angle XLR F>M cable
- Beachtek DXA-2S
- Sony MDRV6 Headphones
- K-Tek K-Cam-SM shockmount
- Lupine Systems Wilma 830 Interview Light (ObsoleteStenlight S7 actually shown)
- Tekkeon MP3450 Battery Pack for the camera

[lasssman]

Zephyrnoid - any particular model for the viewfinder hood (eyepiece, not LCD)?

[curiousparty]

Hi everybody

Just got myself a Rode Videomic today from a local retailer. I was surprised by the fact that the mic actually came in a grey box as opposed to the blue-ish giftbox as shown everywhere online. At first I thought maybe Rode had changed the artwork and whatnot so I didn't bother with that. However, when I got home and take out this fine piece of equipment I spent my hard earned money on, I discovered that the mic DOES NOT have the attentuator switch in the battery compartment. I was like, "what the hell, man? I got the old version?" So I am wondering... is the grey box an indicator to show the version of the mic or was I just darn unlucky to get an old version?

The pictures below show the mic as well as the packaging.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Capital_T/rode_mic.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Capital_T/rode_box.jpg

[elirnerak]

Originally Posted by Stefan_hv20 View Post
Just remember the camera doesn't support mic level adjustment in AUTO, so you must be switched to "P" in order to have this function to work.

Just press the FUNC while recording. (It's the little joystick)
Click down until you got the MIC symbol in the display.
Click up to activate the mic level control. You will see a small "m" symbol near the mic level bar.
Move the joystick left or right to in- or decrease the mic level.
That's it!

I'm very confused! On my camera, in "Camera" mode, when I go to function-->record in setup-->"mic att" is greyed out. I can't use the function button at all when in record mode-- nothing happens. When I attach my DM-50 I don't see the "s" icon that the manual describes. There is no visual indication of the mic, yet when I use it with earphones I do hear a difference.

[ChrisNZ]

Hi guys, new member to the board! I don't own a HV20 yet but I'm looking to get my hands on one soon. When I do get one the first thing I want to invest in is an external mic. I primarily want to shoot outdoors, near the ocean and in the bush etc so I'm looking to get an external mic that can pick up ambient sounds in these locations, ie bird noises etc. My question is, would it be better to have a stereo mic or mono? I'm looking at getting a Rode videomic which records in mono, but will it be able to capture ambient noise as well as a stereo mic? Stereo mics seem to cost a lot more and I wander if they are so much better than a mono mic to justify the higher price? Your feedback would be appreciated!

[Terfyn]

Hi guys, new member to the board! I don't own a HV20 yet but I'm looking to get my hands on one soon. When I do get one the first thing I want to invest in is an external mic. I primarily want to shoot outdoors, near the ocean and in the bush etc so I'm looking to get an external mic that can pick up ambient sounds in these locations, ie bird noises etc. My question is, would it be better to have a stereo mic or mono? I'm looking at getting a Rode videomic which records in mono, but will it be able to capture ambient noise as well as a stereo mic? Stereo mics seem to cost a lot more and I wander if they are so much better than a mono mic to justify the higher price? Your feedback would be appreciated!

This is an odd one. A mic will pick up everything in its sphere of reception. Mono or Stereo is not relevant.
What is relevant is the shape of the area in front of the mic that is most sensitive to sound. Sooooooo:-
Omnidirectional = from all round
Cardioid = front in a heart shaped pattern
Shotgun = focussed directly on to the noise source
There are other so called shapes for mic reception.

In your case, probably a cardioid pattern will work the best. It will pick up sound from the front of the mic but be open enough to pick up sound from all round. (Including you coughing sneezing etc.)

Mono or Stereo The HV20 has a stereo mic socket and two channels of recording. So stereo is preferred as it gives you less hassle! To supply both channels from a mono mic would require a mono to stereo adapter.

[zephyrnoid]

Eyepiece eyecup is acutally a DIY job. Search elsewhere in the site for the how-to on this.
It's actually a Nikon eye-cup MOD'd to the HV20! It's even removeable.
The LCD hood is a DIY I made from fabric covered paper and the template was posted somewhere on the site earlier.:hv20-smilie03:

Zephyrnoid - any particular model for the viewfinder hood (eyepiece, not LCD)?

[Ten Ounce]

Hi everybody

Just got myself a Rode Videomic today from a local retailer. I was surprised by the fact that the mic actually came in a grey box as opposed to the blue-ish giftbox as shown everywhere online. At first I thought maybe Rode had changed the artwork and whatnot so I didn't bother with that. However, when I got home and take out this fine piece of equipment I spent my hard earned money on, I discovered that the mic DOES NOT have the attentuator switch in the battery compartment. I was like, "what the hell, man? I got the old version?" So I am wondering... is the grey box an indicator to show the version of the mic or was I just darn unlucky to get an old version?

The pictures below show the mic as well as the packaging.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Capital_T/rode_mic.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Capital_T/rode_box.jpg


This box is of the old videomic's. The new box is 5 colored.

[icarusi]

Most people speak from a single hole in their heads; there's no 'stereo' necessary.

Is that exception for politicians?

[icarusi]

Just press the FUNC while recording. (It's the little joystick)
Click down until you got the MIC symbol in the display.
Click up to activate the mic level control. You will see a small "m" symbol naer the mic level bar.
Move the joystick left or right to in- or decrease the mic level.
That's it!

I used this a couple of days ago on a local rock band. I had the attenuator on and set the level to peak just over the 12dB mark but it sounded very quiet on later playback, but the live sound was pretty loud. A little later in the shoot the playback level jumped to a 'normal' sound mid shot but I'm not sure why, unless I inadvertently selected 'mic' when intending to adjust 'exp'.

[Goose]

Nicely Put!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/zephyrnoid/HV20_1.jpg
Here's the total line up so far:
- Bracket1 for the HV20
- Hoodman LCD hood
- Canon HV20 with standard lens
- Accessory Raynox.66X Wide lens adapter + 77mm round lenshood
- Sennheiser ME66+K6 + DIY 'GattoMuerte'
- Right angle XLR F>M cable
- Beachtek DXA-2S
- Sony MDRV6 Headphones
- K-Tek K-Cam-SM shockmount
- Lupine Systems Wilma 830 Interview Light (ObsoleteStenlight S7 actually shown)
- Tekkeon MP3450 Battery Pack for the camera

Hi I have the Raynox 6600 and am looking for a hood for it.
Where abouts did you get yours? Does it come into view at full wide? Does it reduce the lens flares?
How is the LCD hoodman? Does the magnifier for the LCD work well?

Cheers
Sorry for all the questions!

[zephyrnoid]

I got it off e-bay. $12 or something like that. 72mm thread fits the Raynox 6600. You must search for 72mm Wide Angle Lens hood or Shade. It's metal and is absolutely not visible in full wide angle but it makes a significant difference in blocking light flare. Albeit not as effective as a Big-ass French flag rig, but it makes it all compact. plus I can tape Black foil to it to flag when need be. Elsewhere on HV20.com I explain & Illustrate my 102mm DIY lens cap for this hood:hv20-smilie77:


Hi I have the Raynox 6600 and am looking for a hood for it.
Where abouts did you get yours? Does it come into view at full wide? Does it reduce the lens flares?
How is the LCD hoodman? Does the magnifier for the LCD work well?

Cheers
Sorry for all the questions!

[swaneon]

okay
so what is the difference between stereo and mono?

[sp8ce07]

okay
so what is the difference between stereo and mono?

google it

[Kostushock]

Hi, everybody!

I'm very upset with camera motor noise, picked up from internal mic. This is the only one reason for me to buy external mic. I don't need super professional sound. Just remove the motor noise. I makes only family video.

In my region only 2 models available (that was discussed on forum):
1. Rode Stereo VideoMic.
2. Canon DM-50.

Wich of these mics makes the least camera motor noise? What can you advise?

PS. The size of Rode is very big. If the mics makes comparable camera noise level... i like DM-50 more because of the size.

Thank you for your answers.

[zephyrnoid]

Based on your requirements, I'd recommend the sony ms908c. A bargain at $78 on Ebay and elsewhere and every bit as good as the Rode Stereo or the DM-50 and at a fraction of the cost.
Note. You will still experience some camera noise because some of the noise has to do with pickup from direct proximity to the camera. Mount the sony ms908c on a shockmount and you will get even less. There is no way to eliminate ALL noise pick-up comming from the HV20 if the mic, any mic is mounted right over the camera or near the tape drive. This shows my MS907 rigged to mount on the HV20. It was great until I moved up to a proper shotgun in a mount.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r105/nikoncp5k/HV20_1.jpg



Hi, everybody!

I'm very upset with camera motor noise, picked up from internal mic. This is the only one reason for me to buy external mic. I don't need super professional sound. Just remove the motor noise. I makes only family video.

In my region only 2 models available (that was discussed on forum):
1. Rode Stereo VideoMic.
2. Canon DM-50.

Wich of these mics makes the least camera motor noise? What can you advise?

PS. The size of Rode is very big. If the mics makes comparable camera noise level... i like DM-50 more because of the size.

Thank you for your answers.

[Kostushock]

Thanks for your advice, zephyrnoid!
But sony ms908c is not a available in my region:( I live in Russia.

What can you say about two models, specified in my previous post?

[Goose]

Well. I ran my first controlled Mic test tonight and have this brief report
Mics tested and hook-up
1) Built in Mic. Nope! I couldn't be bothered with that.
2) Sony ECM MC907 >3.5mm into the HV20 Directly
3) Sony ECM 44B Lav >XLR> Axden FMX2 > 3.5mm >HV20
4) Sennheiser ME66/K6>XLR> Axden FMX2 > 3.5mm >HV20

Subject was a person sitting 7' away in a typical talking head interview indoors, no meaningful ambient noise.

Results:
1) Built in Mic. Nope! I couldn't be bothered with that.
2) Sony ECM MC907 >3.5mm into the HV20 Directly
This a stereo mic powered by a AA battery and has 90º and a 120º angles setting in addition to On/Off. I've used it mainly for Mini-Disc Interviews in the past. Feeding straight into the HV20 I used the camera's mic levels adjustment to keep levels in range. Basically, cranked up all the way and at a satisfactory level, hiss is noticeable. Tuning it down resulted in an acceptebale though not ideal level. The spoken voice was realistic, recognizable as the person and frankly, undistorted! Obviously, evem at 90º it accepts a fairly wide field, roughly matched to the HV20's lens at Wide. I use this on the camera as a "fits in the bag- run and gun" improvement over the built-in mic.
3) Sony ECM 44B Lav >XLR> Axden FMX2 > 3.5mm >HV20
Someone wrote elsewhere in this thread that a lesser mic close to the subject, produces better audio than a better mic at a distance, referencing the inverse square rule. I agree! The lav fed into the mixer and audio adjusted at the mixer, resulted in a beautifully ( dare I say hauntingly?) isolated voice that- though two dimensional, had far more presence than the Sony camera mounted stereo mic. Having external control of a mic's level seems to result in much better audio than just feeding a mic straight into the HV20.
4) Sennheiser ME66/K6>XLR> Axden FMX2 > 3.5mm >HV20
This venerable shotgun was hand-held close to the camera and again,level adjusted via the mixer. WOW! that's big sound. It delivered the fullness and presence of the Lav but with much more dimensionality. Which is what one would expect from a shotgun that's also picking up reflected sound.
So I guess the Sennheiser ME66/K6 had the fullest and most pleasing sound, though not quite as realistic as the stereo mic. The big question for me is how it would compare against the Rode VideoMic or a shorter shotgun.

thanks for this zephyrnoid

I am interested in the Sony MC907 as I dont have a huge budget. Previously I have considered the DM-50 (more expensive but not as good as the MC907?) and the rode stereo videomic (too big?).

Will the MC907 fit directly onto the HV20 hot shoe? Does it come with a shockmount and correct cable to fit into the hv20? Does it pick up noise from operating the zoom / moving the camera etc???

Many thanks

[amshv20]

Hey all,

Too bad that we didn't have the big shootout that this thread needs, but c'est la vie.

I am shooting a documentary and my mic setup will be as follows:

-2 lavs on subjects connecting to digital voice recorders (to be sync'd later)
-external mic mounted on the hv20

The thing I am stuck on -- as it seems everyone is -- is the best external mic to mount on the cam. I would like to record ambient sounds, as a lot of shooting will be outside. But I would also like the mic to pick up the subjects themselves, and other people we encounter, as a "fail-safe" to the lavs. Any thoughts on which model/type of mic would be best is appreciated.

[Magnus]

How good is the Rode NT3 for the HV20?
Does anyone have a test I could listen to?
How far away can you be in a quiet environment before you need a boom?
Is it much better than a Videomic for filming indoors?
Will shooting dialog with the Videomic be difficult because of the narrow pattern?

[TheDingo]

How good is the Rode NT3 for the HV20?

I haven't used it, but it has had very good reviews:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov00/articles/rodent3.htm

It's a fairly sensitive mic ( 12 mv output ), so it should sound quite good with the HV20 even without an external pre-amp.


How far away can you be in a quiet environment before you need a boom?

Mics sound best when they are close to the subject you are recording. It's a sound quality issue, so you want your mic to be within 3-4 feet of your subject if possible.


Is it much better than a Videomic for filming indoors?

Yes. Almost all shotgun mics make terrible indoor mics because they pick-up low frequency sound from all directions. The VideoMic is a great mic, but you need to use it outdoors or in a very "dead" sounding room.


Will shooting dialog with the Videomic be difficult because of the narrow pattern?

The pick-up range is not that narrow. For people that are within a few feet of each other, it should sound great.

If you are thinking of buying a Rode NT3 mic, you might want to take a look at the new Rode M3 mic too.

http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=M3


:D

[Magnus]

If you are thinking of buying a Rode NT3 mic, you might want to take a look at the new Rode M3 mic too.

http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=M3


:D

Will the M3 be less likely to pick up my own breathing than the NT3?
One has a hypercardioid pattern and the other has a cardioid.

[TheDingo]

Will the M3 be less likely to pick up my own breathing than the NT3? One has a hypercardioid pattern and the other has a cardioid.

Unless you are a really heavy breather, I doubt that you will notice much difference in the off-axis pick-up from either of these mics.

The narrower pick-up range of the hyper will be a little quieter than the cardioid, but sometimes it can be too narrow if you are recording a small group of people. I always start with a Rode NT5 cardioid mic, and will switch to an AT4053a hyper if the room is noisy. ( I bought these smaller "pencil" mics so I could use a Rycote BabyBall-Gag mini-blimp when shooting outside, and I use a Sound Devices MM-1 or MixPre to power them. )

[Magnus]

Unless you are a really heavy breather, I doubt that you will notice much difference in the off-axis pick-up from either of these mics.

The narrower pick-up range of the hyper will be a little quieter than the cardioid, but sometimes it can be too narrow if you are recording a small group of people. I always start with a Rode NT5 cardioid mic, and will switch to an AT4053a hyper if the room is noisy. ( I bought these smaller "pencil" mics so I could use a Rycote BabyBall-Gag mini-blimp when shooting outside, and I use a Sound Devices MM-1 or MixPre to power them. )

So I guess that a hyper will be better outdoors, though I'm still leaning towards the m3. Maybe I won't notice, or care (many of my favorite films are dubbed and poorly synch'ed). My frustration about choosing a mic probably outdoes any frustrations I would have with the audio on the camera :hv20-smilie102:.

Does anyone know if there are any tests that compares a hyper pattern with a cardioid?

[finemom]

I've just spent hours reading through the microphone threads. I'm going to be videotaping a dance performance. The performance is for 45 minutes straight. I will try to get a copy the actual music and maybe work with that in the editing process. If that's not possible, I would like to buy and external microphone and am deciding between the DM 50 and the Rode stereo. Could someone give me advice as to which would work best in capturing the music, which is of course amplified in some form in auditorium. It's a small (seats 250-300) auditorium and I will probably be in the back. Thanks in advance for your help.

[zephyrnoid]

Actually, I PRESSED my Sony ECM-MS908C mic into service at the begining, before I had a mount for my Sennheiser ME66. This Sony is the Best Value for the money External for the HV20 at ranges from 1' - 15' is.... please applaud for ...
:hv20-smilie72: Sony ECM-MS908C Stereo Microphone :hv20-smilie77:
Available via Amazon, E-Bay etc.
Even though I prefer the dedicated audio isolation you get from mono shotguns, handhelds and Lavs, this one is unbeatable for under $90. Especially if used well off camera at the right distances and with 90º setting on. It's also great when you're audio target is indeed scattered over 90º-120º as is often the case in : Scenes with several people or sound sources comming at you at the same time, performance, conferences, panel discussions etc.




thanks for this zephyrnoid

I am interested in the Sony MC907 as I dont have a huge budget. Previously I have considered the DM-50 (more expensive but not as good as the MC907?) and the rode stereo videomic (too big?).

Will the MC907 fit directly onto the HV20 hot shoe? Does it come with a shockmount and correct cable to fit into the hv20? Does it pick up noise from operating the zoom / moving the camera etc???

Many thanks

[Magnus]

:hv20-smilie72: Sony ECM-MS908C Stereo Microphone :hv20-smilie77:
Available via Amazon, E-Bay etc.

I may get this one if a shock-mount isn't necessary. However I can probably get a flash bracket for free, so I will wait for Worley's tests.

[dasman]

I just got the HV20 and Rodes VideoMic. I looked through this thread and can't find the answer for two things:

1) When you plug an external mic into the mic jack, does the internal mic automatically disable?

2) What does the "Mic Att" option in the menu do EXACTLY?

Thanks in advance.

DS

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Actually, I PRESSED my Sony ECM-MS908C mic into service at the begining, before I had a mount for my Sennheiser ME66. This Sony is the Best Value for the money External for the HV20 at ranges from 1' - 15' is.... please applaud for ...
:hv20-smilie72: Sony ECM-MS908C Stereo Microphone :hv20-smilie77:
Available via Amazon, E-Bay etc.
Even though I prefer the dedicated audio isolation you get from mono shotguns, handhelds and Lavs, this one is unbeatable for under $90. Especially if used well off camera at the right distances and with 90º setting on. It's also great when you're audio target is indeed scattered over 90º-120º as is often the case in : Scenes with several people or sound sources comming at you at the same time, performance, conferences, panel discussions etc.

Can you post sample clips please?

Thanks!

[zephyrnoid]

I cannot. Not because I'm shy,mean, coy or arrogant- but rather too damn busy! Right now in "Solo" mode. No help and I barely have the time to post in this forum. Sorry !
Can you post sample clips please?

Thanks!

[ESTEBEVERDE]

I cannot. Not because I'm shy,mean, coy or arrogant- but rather too damn busy! Right now in "Solo" mode. No help and I barely have the time to post in this forum. Sorry !


No problem. That's perfectly understandable.

Thanks all the same.

If you do get a free sec and get a chance to catch your breath sometime it would still be great to hear your mic then.

Take care and all the best!

Estebe

[kadzbiz]

Actually, I PRESSED my Sony ECM-MS908C mic into service at the begining, before I had a mount for my Sennheiser ME66. This Sony is the Best Value for the money External for the HV20 at ranges from 1' - 15' is.... please applaud for ...
:hv20-smilie72: Sony ECM-MS908C Stereo Microphone :hv20-smilie77:
Available via Amazon, E-Bay etc......


I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or whether there is some mechanical fault, but I just bought this Sony Mike and I can say that I'm rather disappointed. Unless I'm talking an inch or two from the mike, the sound capture is so quiet even when I boosted the mike input to full. I reckon that the HV20's internal mike has a much better pickup. I see in the above quote that 1" - 15" is mentioned, which I guess would suit interviewing someone with the HV20 back several feet and the mike on a longer cable, but I may as well use a good quality voice recorder for that scenario instead.

Is the Rode videomic a better option for capturing voice from several feet away than the HV20's internal mike?

[zephyrnoid]

Howdy over there! please note that my range is 1' (FOOT) to 15' (FEET) and not 1 INCH > 15 INCHES.
Your mic must be broken or needs a fresh battery. You DID check the battery right? :hv20-smilie79:
I have footage shot outside that has a subject at well over 100 FEET over water and you can plainly hear what they're saying, with HV20 Level set at around the 3/4 of full volume mark. Test your gear again and let us know what you discovered:hv20-smilie72:


I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or whether there is some mechanical fault, but I just bought this Sony Mike and I can say that I'm rather disappointed. Unless I'm talking an inch or two from the mike, the sound capture is so quiet even when I boosted the mike input to full. I reckon that the HV20's internal mike has a much better pickup. I see in the above quote that 1" - 15" is mentioned, which I guess would suit interviewing someone with the HV20 back several feet and the mike on a longer cable, but I may as well use a good quality voice recorder for that scenario instead.

Is the Rode videomic a better option for capturing voice from several feet away than the HV20's internal mike?

[kadzbiz]

Howdy over there! please note that my range is 1' (FOOT) to 15' (FEET) and not 1 INCH > 15 INCHES.
Your mic must be broken or needs a fresh battery. You DID check the battery right? :hv20-smilie79:
I have footage shot outside that has a subject at well over 100 FEET over water and you can plainly hear what they're saying, with HV20 Level set at around the 3/4 of full volume mark. Test your gear again and let us know what you discovered:hv20-smilie72:

Well, I double checked the newness of the battery and put a new one in anyway. I did some tests. I found that the sony picks up nice from about an inch or two from my face and when I used a six foot lead it sounded nicer from six feet away (at an inch from my mouth) than the HV20's mike. When I left the mike on the hotshoe and started walking away, the sony couldn't cut it. As soon as I got more than a couple of inches away, the pickup was useless. I set my mike pickup to 3/4 as well. There isn't something I've overlooked is there? Or do you think it's busted?

Edit - I just checked the sony with my old sony DVD101E minidisk camera and found that the sony mike picked up 100 times better on there than on the HV20. The quality of the sound from about fifteen feet away was the same as the onboard mike though. I don't know if that means the sony cam has just got a better on board mike than the canon. Opinions?

[zephyrnoid]

I need to look at my total config better and yes you guys are forcing me to post some audio clips to prove i'm not kidding. I really DO NOT have the time, esp. since I've agreed to do a Side-By-Side test of the Raynox Wide lenses. So I'll just do a config anaylsis and post one clip at interview distance indoors 7'. That's SEVEN FEET.:hv20-smilie70:


Well, I double checked the newness of the battery and put a new one in anyway. I did some tests. I found that the sony picks up nice from about an inch or two from my face and when I used a six foot lead it sounded nicer from six feet away (at an inch from my mouth) than the HV20's mike. When I left the mike on the hotshoe and started walking away, the sony couldn't cut it. As soon as I got more than a couple of inches away, the pickup was useless. I set my mike pickup to 3/4 as well. There isn't something I've overlooked is there? Or do you think it's busted?

Edit - I just checked the sony with my old sony DVD101E minidisk camera and found that the sony mike picked up 100 times better on there than on the HV20. The quality of the sound from about fifteen feet away was the same as the onboard mike though. I don't know if that means the sony cam has just got a better on board mike than the canon. Opinions?

[rob88]

Anyone with the Rode have problems with sqeaks coming from the stretching rubber isolators? When the camera is in motion and the rubber stretches I'm picking this up.

Other than that no complaints either.


i'm using the rode video mic and its works flawlessly... no complaints here, heres some pics :

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12301370546.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5379014)
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12301370579.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5379013)
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12301370565.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5379012)
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/12301370448.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5379011)

- regards Marty.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

a teeny tiny drop of silicon oil should do the trick...

[Bif]

Rode StereoVideoMic $249 with Deadcat windmuff


By the way, there's also a STEREO version of the same mic:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VideoMicSt/

Mal, I've been using this mic for close to a year now with a Panasonic PV GS500 and initial tests with the HV20 I just acquired show it seems to be a good general all around choice for the Canon also.

Here's how I use it:

I NEVER mount it direct on the camera. None of the on camera shoe thingies look solid enough for me, plus with the Deadcat that comes with it some fur hangs down in the field of view with the smallish lens hoods I have.

So I use an old Jones flash bracket left over from weddings with a Hasselblad days. Holds the mic about 1 foot over the camcorder and provides a good handle for stabilizing the cam. Rightmost picture at the link below (the J-120)

http://www.veachco.net/jones.htm

When I don't need to move around a lot, I mount the mic on a lightstand with 1/4x20 thread on top and stand it just barely out of the frame, or sometimes put a small hairlight boom on the lightstand, mount the mic to that and suspend it just above and in front of the talent.

Outdoors the Deadcat windmuff that comes with this mic is a godsend.

Hope this helps some folks.

[kilikili]

I'm planning on purchasing a stereo mic for the HV20. I've eyeing the Rode stereo video mic for my purposes of recording ambient sound like oceans and nature. Yet, according to rode, the mic is only good up to about 6'. Has anybody had any problems recording ocean waves or any type of natural sounds above 6'?

[Frank]

I'm planning on purchasing a stereo mic for the HV20. I've eyeing the Rode stereo video mic for my purposes of recording ambient sound like oceans and nature. Yet, according to rode, the mic is only good up to about 6'. Has anybody had any problems recording ocean waves or any type of natural sounds above 6'?

I'm sure that what they mean is that any further away and you'll start picking up ambient sounds due to the cardioid pickup pattern. If ambient sounds are what you want, that shouldn't bother you.

[kilikili]

I'm sure that what they mean is that any further away and you'll start picking up ambient sounds due to the cardioid pickup pattern. If ambient sounds are what you want, that shouldn't bother you.

Thanks for you reply Frank. Your reply plus watching the following youtube video pretty much solidified my decision to get the stereo mic.

The video puts the stereo mic in real world environments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpBzn69_DPU

Bob

[kadzbiz]

Please correct me if I'm wrong guys, as I've read some but not all of this thread, but if I'm using an external mike from the hotshoe, then picking up good voice audio is going to be limited to only a few feet?

[sstberlin]

I am new to this forum, and don't even have my own HV-20 (yet - it's on order). But in a totally different forum, I came across this comment:
"As you are plugging the earbud into a A/V jack, the static you hear is the video signal. You need to create a special cable that only connects to the audio section of the tip/ring/ring/sleeve jack."
Is this any help to you?

Thank you. Sorry for the delay in answering. I haven't checked the forum in quite some time. I have no idea exactly how to "create a special cable," but your comment is actually a help to me in a psychological way. A simple technical explanation is an exercise in learning vs. incorrectly believing that there is a flaw in the camera. Much appreciated. /Stephen

[Alsone]

Has anyone found a decent Mic thats small yet?

The Rode / Sennheiser / Canon are all great but HUGE.

Whilst OK for studio work, try walking into a pub or nightclub on holiday with a camera that looks like its rigged for a BBC video expose and see what you get - most likely a fist from the bouncer!

As I want to use my camera for surfing photography on the beach and pub / nightclub action, I need something small and discreet that suggest consumer camera rather than HD beast.

Anyone found anything?

[ESTEBEVERDE]

The Canon DM-50 Directional Microphone is the smallest of quality that I know of.

[guycochran]

Has anyone found a decent Mic thats small yet?

The Rode / Sennheiser / Canon are all great but HUGE.

Whilst OK for studio work, try walking into a pub or nightclub on holiday with a camera that looks like its rigged for a BBC video expose and see what you get - most likely a fist from the bouncer!

As I want to use my camera for surfing photography on the beach and pub / nightclub action, I need something small and discreet that suggest consumer camera rather than HD beast.

Anyone found anything?


The RODE SVM is a nice fit. Take a look at this Podcast Episode and you'll see the RODE SVM on top of an HV20 http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid275887224/bclid184432313/bctid1283222054

Guy

[kadzbiz]

Can someone please answer this for me? Thanks.


Please correct me if I'm wrong guys, as I've read some but not all of this thread, but if I'm using an external mike from the hotshoe, then picking up good voice audio is going to be limited to only a few feet?

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Can someone please answer this for me? Thanks.


It all depends on what kind of sound.

But, shotgun mics don't increase range. You can't "hear" further away.

They only attenuate (dampen or lessen) the sounds form the sides of the mic and depending on the mic the rear to a lesser degree.

This is called sound rejection.


A camcorder is a noisy beast. For the most part. As we move to solid state it will become less so.

But, if you want to run an on cam mic and you are new to sound start with a Rode Video Mic and the Rode Dead Cat.

Grow from there with a boom pole to learn some micing techniques and then onward and upward with the sky as the limit!

[gatogris]

Hey y'all

I just got an Audiotechnica AT897, battery-powered xlr 11" mike that seems small enough for my HV20. My thinking was to attach this mike to the hot shoe with a mount and then put a beachtek adaptor onto the tripod mount and attach a radio mike to that, so as to have both channels for documentary work, interviewing on the fly. Anyone know why this wouldn't work?

Thanks for the great site!

[ESTEBEVERDE]

It will.

But you need to isolate the AT897 from vibration and camera noise. It's going to cost and will never sound as good as a boom mic.

The wireless is good. But not as good as a wired xlr lav.

[gatogris]

Cool thanks, but what about power supply?

My wireless lav takes a phantom power supply, is there any way I can go dynamic?

[kadzbiz]

..... You can't "hear" further away......But, if you want to run an on cam mic and you are new to sound start with a Rode Video Mic and the Rode Dead Cat.....Grow from there with a boom pole to learn some micing techniques and then onward and upward with the sky as the limit!


Thanks for that. I just might get the Rode. I'm also waiting for a pocket sized minidisc walkman to arrive with clip on mike. See how I go then.

[peckmiester]

I am waiting on my HV20 to arrive, and I am looking for advice on filming an elementary school program in a gym. I am not sure if I will have time to figure out how to plug into the sound board, and was looking at A LOT of posts on mics. What I learned is that a mono directional mic like a Rode may suite me nicely. If I do not have time to get a Rhode, what alternative would be ok to use? I do walk around some in the beginning to film individuals doing their performances, then I typically am in the 50+ foot range from the stage. What setups would you suggest for now and possibly the future (ideal)? After the program I capture and edit video using Avid Liquid 7.2 and/or Pinnacle 11 Ultimate for 20-30 people. I do fix some of the audio and color (due to lighting conditions). I am stepping up from my Sony Handycam. This is becoming more fun (and expensive) of a hobby for me. Sorry for the long first post, and thank you all for your time and suggestions.

[zephyrnoid]

Posted By Popular Demand.

I just taped takes of me doing a quick monologue line with these mics at comparable settings and typical positioning on the HV20. I'm kinda tired so I'll edit and post them sometime Sunday PM (tomorrow)
The Parameters
- Camera 8' away from subject on tripod
- Typical small appartment living room acoustics. Plasterboard walls, wall to wall carpeting, a sliding glass balcony door, etc.
- All ambient sounds reduced to almost nothing
1) Built in Mic with ATT On
2) Sony ECM MS-907 (no screen) mounted on HV20 at it's hotshoe using my DIY mount. HV20 ATT Off & Level set manually to peak at 12 and plugged directly into the HV20's Mic>IN
3) Sennheiser ME66/K6 mounted in K-Tek Shockmount and positioned on a Bracket-1 cold shoe slightly off to the right of camera center. XLR>Beachtek Channel 1. Ch1 pot adjusted in sync with HV20 Manual Level to peak at 12. HV20 ATT>OFF
4) Sennheiser EW100 Wireless Receiver plugged into Beachtek Channel 2 (3.5mm mini >IN) . Transmitter on subject, transmitting audio from ME2 Lavalier Microphone pinned to suject's shirt at solar plexus.
5) Sony ECM-44B powered wired Lavalier pinned to suject's shirt at solar plexus and feeding into Beachtek Channel 1. Beachtek level & HV20 Level balanced for optimum audio peaking at 12 with minimized noise
6) Samson Zoom H2 - AGC2> Speech, 44.1kHz/16Bit,Level 127,90º front ONLY, Low Gain. Mounted in the same position as the Shotgun was- off the camera and to the right slightly atop the Bracket-1. Line OUT> HV20 Mic IN. HV20 ATT ON & HV20 Levels adjusted for peak at 12
7) Samson Zoom H2 - AGC2> Speech, 44.1kHz/16Bit,Level 127,90º front ONLY, Low Gain. Mounted in the same position as the Shotgun was- off the camera and to the right slightly atop the Bracket-1. Line OUT> HV20 Mic IN. HV20 ATT OFF & HV20 Levels adjusted for peak at 12
NOTE: In cases where the Beachteck was used, channel 2 was always set to max levels even when no mic was connected into that channel. Channel 1 Pot was adjusted in sync with HV20 Levels.

I will post clips tomorrow, but here is my brief analysis:
-All 7 tests sound quite different- demonstrating that indeed, the character of recorded audio and attendant noise varies widely between microphone types and settings (You all knew that already)
- The noisiest audio predictably came from the built-in HV20 microphones. It picks up all camera noise, handling noise and nasty echoes from around the room. It's better than nothing to be sure, but not the best way to portray a monologue.
- The Sony ECM MS-907 was a huge improvement is capturing a directional monologue with significantly less ambient noise and very little camera noise at all. I'm guessing that mounted in a shock-mount in place of the shotgun is would have been an even better performer.
- The Sennheiser ME66/K6 was much more directional yet and though noise was much minimized, it had an unpleasant 'hollow' tone to it. Be aware that shotguns are not really meant to be used this way, They are supposed to be directed around 4' away from the audio source. At 8' from camera position, it was picking up a bunch of reverberation off the rooms surfaces. I like this mic best outdoors on a camera or on a boom indoors.
- The Sennheiser EW100 Wireless Lav has the cleanest, warmest and most believable audio of all. No camera noise and virtually no ambient noise or hiss from anything.
- Sony ECM 44B. This was just to compare to the wireless Sennheiser. I was pretty impressed with how well the Sony ECM 44 compared to the Wireless Sennheiser. Again, no camera noise, and a somewhat more muffled audio than the 'brighter' ME2 that ships standard with the EW100. This is a great back-up to the wireless mic and if subject mobility is not an issue, it or any comparable or better wired and POWERED lav are a guaranteed quality of sound in situations where RF intereference may ever be an issue.
- The big surprise was the Samson Zoom H2. I'm sure I could have taped many takes with this product set to different settings and rigged in various ways- but I decided to just try it as a mic/pre-amp passing audio from the line>OUT to the HV20's Mic >IN via a 3.5mm Male to 3.5mm Male cable.
WOW! That built-in pre-amp is a marvel for sure! really boosts the mic up there! The best results I got from this trial were> HV20 ATT= OFF, H2 at 90º ONLY , AGC2-Speech, Levels at 100 and Low Gain Setting. I then set the HV20 Level to peak at 12. Oddly enough, the audio at this configuration was very, very similar to that from the Sony ECM MS-907. Then again, they are both Stereo Mics with 90º pattern pickup and both are powered. The BIG difference of course is the H2's versatility in mode settings, Gain and Levels controls- not to mention pick-up patterns.

I'm sorry that I could not include a Rode Mic in this roundup. Rode are hard to reach people and no one wanted to donate a test mic for this trial.
In the future I will do more with all these options and I will pick up an ME64 capsule to supplement my ME66 for indoors use on camera. The ME64 has better back rejection and a narrower pattern. That's a feature that I may prefer as I like shotguns for 'solo' audio on the run.
---------------
Fast & Dirty - External Mic Comparos. Not sure how to post them on this forum directly.
Canon HV20 W/Internal Mic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zplfrMZxbA
Canon HV20 + Sony ECM-MS907
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDwB-7wEFD8
HV20 + Sennheiser ME66/K6Sennheiser ME66 via Beachtek Mixer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO2gND6q7no
HV20 + Sennheiser EW100 Lavalier via Beachtek Mixer Channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bFX8G6CtoY
HV20 + Sony ECM44B Powered & Wired Lav via Beachtek Mixer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCu_XnhdZjc
HV20 + Samson Zoom H2 Via 3.5mm HV20 Mic-In
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YWOqa3lLV8

[kadzbiz]

I just bought the Olympus WS-300M digital voice recorder from Amazon. I love it. Now I can capture distant audio nicely.

[marshallarts]

zephyrnoid, excellent up! Thanks very much for your time in doing this! I think we all will find this greatly useful.

I have a Zoom H4 unit. I once thought about somehow using it as a recorder into my HV20 or perhaps clap syncing the two together. You would recommend this?

[zephyrnoid]

Thanks for the recognition. I'll do even more for you folks as time permits.
Clap Syncing is of course, a time honered method for capturing audio and video spearately, then syncing them together in post. Indeed, for a good while in the history of film making, that's all there was. Things to keep in mind when using this technique:
- Syncing the START of a clip is dead easy, thanks to the clapboard. The hard part is KEEPING sync throughtout the clip duration. Give consideration to the realtionship between camera/video bitrate and audio bitrate is key to this.
- Even though you'll be capturing audio onto a separate recording- be sure to capture audio into camera anyway. This will help enormously with sync.
- Remember that the audience experiences performance from the camera's POV. Audio captured at the talent needs to be believeable by an audience/camera that may ostensibly be par away of positioned differently from the mics in question. This audio logic is similar to lighting logic.
- As always, capture at least 60 seconds of ambient only audio from the camera, to use as a base.
- Finally. Keep in mind that since the recorder may be in the talent's pocket or in anycase "not within direct control of the cameraman/sound-person or director" ,it's crucial to constantly monitor takes to be sure that 1) audio is being captured 2) It's level is correct 3) mic positioning is effective
:hv20-smilie77:


zephyrnoid, excellent up! Thanks very much for your time in doing this! I think we all will find this greatly useful.

I have a Zoom H4 unit. I once thought about somehow using it as a recorder into my HV20 or perhaps clap syncing the two together. You would recommend this?

[zephyrnoid]

Thanks for the recognition. I'll do even more for you folks as time permits.
Clap Syncing is of course, a time honered method for capturing audio and video spearately, then syncing them together in post. Indeed, for a good while in the history of film making, that's all there was. Things to keep in mind when using this technique:
- Syncing the START of a clip is dead easy, thanks to the clapboard. The hard part is KEEPING sync throughtout the clip duration. Give consideration to the realtionship between camera/video bitrate and audio bitrate is key to this.
- Even though you'll be capturing audio onto a separate recording- be sure to capture audio into camera anyway. This will help enormously with sync.
- Remember that the audience experiences performance from the camera's POV. Audio captured at the talent needs to be believeable by an audience/camera that may ostensibly be par away of positioned differently from the mics in question. This audio logic is similar to lighting logic.
- As always, capture at least 60 seconds of ambient only audio from the camera, to use as a base.
- Finally. Keep in mind that since the recorder may be in the talent's pocket or in anycase "not within direct control of the cameraman/sound-person or director" ,it's crucial to constantly monitor takes to be sure that 1) audio is being captured 2) It's level is correct 3) mic positioning is effective
:hv20-smilie77:


zephyrnoid, excellent up! Thanks very much for your time in doing this! I think we all will find this greatly useful.

I have a Zoom H4 unit. I once thought about somehow using it as a recorder into my HV20 or perhaps clap syncing the two together. You would recommend this?

[mrob7]

I was able to get really good audio from my rode videomic in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMelVE7h7iI

The audio was set on manual, and then I taped the rode mic to a mic stand (since it wouldn't screw on to it) and used a 3.5mm extension from mic to camera and placed it a foot or two away from his mouth.

[zephyrnoid]

Good job! Kinda 'Bass' heavy but still pretty clean voice. Just curious. Was the Mic at his mouth level, below pointing up or above pointing down?

I was able to get really good audio from my rode videomic in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMelVE7h7iI

The audio was set on manual, and then I taped the rode mic to a mic stand (since it wouldn't screw on to it) and used a 3.5mm extension from mic to camera and placed it a foot or two away from his mouth.

[mrob7]

Good job! Kinda 'Bass' heavy but still pretty clean voice. Just curious. Was the Mic at his mouth level, below pointing up or above pointing down?

Yea it is a little bassy. I had it below pointing up on the stand. Is it better to have it above?

[zephyrnoid]

Bass cut-off switch would be good on the Mic. Your positioning is fine but at camera level would have been a tad more realistic
Yea it is a little bassy. I had it below pointing up on the stand. Is it better to have it above?

[3cmosHV50]

theres another thread called rode microphone with pix of the HV 20 and the rode both with and without the dead cat.

Looks cool!

[boostcpa26]

aight well then a boom mic is used over actors and maybe a wireless mic is used on far shots but still which boom mic do u recommend ?

[ESTEBEVERDE]

aight well then a boom mic is used over actors and maybe a wireless mic is used on far shots but still which boom mic do u recommend ?


Depends on where you will shoot and how much $ ?

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Cool thanks, but what about power supply?

My wireless lav takes a phantom power supply, is there any way I can go dynamic?


Did you get this worked out?

Sorry I missed your post.

[MichaelT]

I concur with David. Besides, you can place layers of sounds in Adobe Premiere or Final Cut Pro to create a multitude of sounds from different sources and directions.

[MichaelT]

I concur with David. Besides, you can place layers of sounds from different sources and directions in programs such as Adobe Premiere Pro or Final Cut Pro.

[trompettiste]

So due to int'l shipping charges on the Canon DM50 (v. expensive in Australia), the DM50+rycote mini windjammer+ shipping is the same price as the Rode SVM.

I am getting the mic to go with my camcorder to travel with - so not really for making short films..just recording my travels.

Which mic do you recommend - DM50 or SVM?

Regards

A

[notlad]

I am a newbie so excuse me if I am asking a stupid question or one that has already been answered. I have looked awhile and not seen an answer.

I have an HV20 on order so I am just learning about it. I read that the acessory shoe is a "hot" one (powered).

How do you use accessories with it that you don't want "powered" by the camera? I have an Audio Technica ART55 that has it's own battery power that I want to try with the HV20. How would I mount it?

[kadzbiz]

I am a newbie so excuse me if I am asking a stupid question or one that has already been answered. I have looked awhile and not seen an answer.

I have an HV20 on order so I am just learning about it. I read that the acessory shoe is a "hot" one (powered).

How do you use accessories with it that you don't want "powered" by the camera? I have an Audio Technica ART55 that has it's own battery power that I want to try with the HV20. How would I mount it?

Just mount it on the hot shoe. If it has it's only power supply, then it won't take power away from the camera's battery - as far as I can tell.

[LarrYs]

The Sennheiser MKE 400 Camera-Mount Shotgun Condenser Microphone is finally here!

It's available in a few places. I just bought one from B&H ($199) but haven't tested it/received it yet. I'm in France and waiting for my son to bring it to me from the US. On paper, it looks certainly like the best solution so far. Reviews should be coming out soon.

Sennheiser MKE 400 Camera-Mount Shotgun Condenser Microphone

http://www.pixelle.com/images/mke400.jpg

(quote)

The MKE 400 preserves captivating moments with the most natural, lifelike sound reproduction, and is durable enough to withstand heavy professional and home use.

* Features: Very rugged, compact and versatile
* All-metal construction
* Integral shock mount for rejection of handling noise
* Durable metal body for long-lasting use
* Switchable sensitivity for long and short distances
* More than 300 hr. operating time from a single AAA battery
* LED battery status monitor
* Ideal for both professionals and amateurs
* Fits all cameras with a standard hot shoe mount and an external microphone input

Specifications
* Dimensions (incl. foam windshield): 130 x 21 x 62 mm
* Weight (w/o battery): approx. 60 g
* Pick-up pattern: super-cardioid / lobar
* Frequency response: 40 Hz - 20 kHz
* Frequency response (with wind noise filter): 80 Hz - 20 kHz
* Self-noise level: 21 dB (A), 32 dB (CCIR)
* Power supply: 1.5 V battery (AAA)
* Operating time: more than 300 hours
* Length of helical cable: approx. 200 mm, 3.5 mm stereo mini jack

(end of quote)

[videorookie]

Hello, I am new to this forum and also looking for a microphone. This is a very interesting thread! Does anyone have experiences with the Beyerdynamic MCE 72 CAM?

Thanks, Lars

[the_mattster124]

ok ive decided on the rode videomic or the dm50 which 1 do u think is better for all around use

[tuannguyenesq]

I like Rode Videomic for its name and quality as well as later used on different camcorder (on or off) vs. Canon mic, you are stuck with hotshoe on camera only. Anyway, Canon's mic is smaller, has 2 modes.

[Lunchbox]

I would say... if you need a shotgun mic (for interviews and scene you pick up sound right in front of you), get the Rode VideoMic.

If you need a general use mic to replace the internal HV20 mic, I think DM50 would be a better choice because it has 3 modes (Shotgun, Stereo1, Stereo2). Stereo mode gives better fidelity than the shotgun mode but it won't reject much sound around and behind.

[the_mattster124]

thanks, I think im gonna get the rode mic mainly because of the compatibility with other cameras because i eventually want to upgrade to a new camera, also i mainly need just the shotgun mode thanks for the help

[Lunchbox]

With eBay, I don't really care too much as I can always sell it. Watch out if you get the Rode VideoMic, it is Mono and the fedelity is lower. Also, if the sound source is from the left or right from the mic, your sound is all muffled.

[nolonemo]

The Sennheiser MKE 400 Camera-Mount Shotgun Condenser Microphone is finally here!


Size is very nice, and I like the "intergral shock mount" which should prevent contact transmission of motor noise from the cam. But b/c of price, I'll have to stay with my ECM-907 and DYI shock mount for a while. (Pix to come, stay tuned).

[the_mattster124]

taky, so do u think that the dm50 is a better shotgun mic than the rode?

[Lunchbox]

I don't have DM50 so I can't tell you for sure. But from what I understand having both the Rode VM and SVM, the SVM has a wider angle of sound perception plus higher fidelity. VM is a shotgun mic so it picked up soound in narrow angle and rejected sound from side and rear. So if you want something with better flexibity, DM50 will be better. That's my take.

[tuannguyenesq]

Taky is right, since his original post "wanting something for all around use" then DM-50 gives that capability based on his two choices.

For myself, I battled over 3 mics: Rode Videomic, Rode SVM, Canon DM-50, I finally went with Rode SVM.

Tough isn't?

[the_mattster124]

thanks for the info really helped

[flycam]

I luckily have access to a beyerdynamic MCE 86. The one shown below is the battery powered version. I like the sound of it, it's not as expensive as the Sennheiser, but better and also more expensive than the rode.
I do favor the Sennehiser EW100 series for Wireless with my HV 20, though I only have used the stationary receiver, the quality blew me away, no audible noise from the wireless, and worked no problem with the Sennheiser. I used other, cheaper wireless mikes with cameras, and that was just a nightmare (AKG WMS40, Sennheiser cheapo series).

I wish to get/build a small stereo mic, xy-config, 90˚ angle, for regular use instead of the built in mic. Wolfgang Winne, the guy behind Ohrwurmaudio.de created a little mic for the HV20 in my desired size and specs, but he couldn't tell me where he got the capsules from.

[Seraph0000]

The Rode SVM can only shoot in stereo right? It doesn't have a mono setting?

Oh and if choosing between the rode mono and stereo could you guys possibly list the quick plusses and minuses to each?

Sorry... I'm a big n00b at film and I want to get it right. I've always enjoyed making little films and such with friends, but I want to give a more professional look to them now. I just want a potential 150-250 dollar purchase to be worth it :hv20-smilie03:

[Lunchbox]

Yes, SVM records stereo only. That's why it's called Stereo VideoMic.

SVM - wider shooting angle, higher fidelity
VideoMic - pick up sound from one direction. reject rear and side sound. Lower fidelity

it really depends on your usage instead of picking just one mic for all. If you need it for interview or you know you need to filter side and back ambience noise, get VideoMic. If you need a mic for general record purpose, get the SVM. If you need one for both purposes, get Canon DM50.

I once used a Shotgun mic in a wedding reception. It was fine until the someone gave a speech and walked off the stage to talked to some guests. I panned the camera to follow him. But then I forgot the loud speakers were behind me. All sound becomes muffled. The SVM works better in such sceniro.

[Seraph0000]

Doesn't the DM50 run off the hotshoe though? Would that limit you from using a boom pole?

*edit* oh and the reason I asked about it being able to record stereo is because I had read about the DM50... didn't know how many mics were similar

[xjeffx]

Just wanted to say thanks for all of the helpful advice in this thread.

I just ordered a HV20 and the DM50 from Amazon. I chose the DM50 despite a lack of audio samples for it here because I want something small and unobtrusive. I am planning a trip to Northern Africa and hope to do a lot of shooting in crowded markets and around people who may be put off by a large setup. To me, the Rode SVM was simply too big to go unnoticed.

I also figured this gives me the most choices of how I want my audio. Shotgun, stereo, etc. Should work well enough for doing interviews and also geting ambient noise in other areas when I need it.

I'll post some samples next week when I get it to hopefully help others.

[xjeffx]

Here's a quick and dirty example of the dm-50

http://www.vimeo.com/618316

I notice some hissing while it's silent in the hallway. I don't know if this is tape noise or not. Anybody have any ideas?

[Sebaz]

Here's a quick and dirty example of the dm-50

http://www.vimeo.com/618316

I notice some hissing while it's silent in the hallway. I don't know if this is tape noise or not. Anybody have any ideas?

Which mode was the mic set at?

[xjeffx]

Which mode was the mic set at?


shotgun

[TheDingo]

I notice some hissing while it's silent in the hallway. I don't know if this is tape noise or not. Anybody have any ideas?

Have you tried recording with the sound level adjusted manually ?

The mic pre-amp in the HV20 gets "hissy" at higher gain levels, so you might be able to eliminate the hiss by manually setting the gain level low ( which will make the mic sound too quiet when you are recording ), and then boosting the sound levels back to normal in your video editor.

The HV20 can make hiss-free recordings if the mic signal is very strong, which is one of the reasons I use a Sound Devices MixPre mixer to feed a LINE-LEVEL signal to a BeachTek adapter, and manually adjust the HV20's pre-amp to a fairly low gain setting. ( calibrated to -12 dB using the MixPre's 1 Khz tone generator )

[Sebaz]

Here's a quick and dirty example of the dm-50

http://www.vimeo.com/618316

I notice some hissing while it's silent in the hallway. I don't know if this is tape noise or not. Anybody have any ideas?

I can hear a minimal tape motor noise, but nothing compared to the camcorder's own mic. Still, I believe the reason why it's still picking up a little bit of that noise is because you are in a hallway. In my short experience with the HV20 I soon realized that the smaller the place I'm shooting at, the more it's going to have motor noise, because it echoes on the walls. It will happen even more if you are inside a car.

[xjeffx]

I can hear a minimal tape motor noise, but nothing compared to the camcorder's own mic. Still, I believe the reason why it's still picking up a little bit of that noise is because you are in a hallway. In my short experience with the HV20 I soon realized that the smaller the place I'm shooting at, the more it's going to have motor noise, because it echoes on the walls. It will happen even more if you are inside a car.

Gotcha.

If you, or anybody else for that matter, can outline a good mic test for me to perform on this bad boy I will be glad to do it. I'm just not a pro when it comes to audio so I really need some sort of outline, suggested settings, setup, etc so I do it right and don't waste our time.

I want to like this mic as it is perfect for travel. That is, if the sound is good.

[nolonemo]

Gotcha.

If you, or anybody else for that matter, can outline a good mic test for me to perform on this bad boy I will be glad to do it.

I don't have a test setup for you, but if you do post more samples, include in your clip a bit zooming the camera. I'm hearing the zoom motor very clearly with the internal mic, I'm looking for a similar audio solution to you.

[Daiky]

I notice some hissing while it's silent in the hallway. I don't know if this is tape noise or not. Anybody have any ideas?

Recording sound in a very silent place is like recording video in a very dark place: you will mostly capture noise. And probably due to some sort of automatic gain control together with the low input signal, the noise will even be amplified.
I think if you are filming on crowded markets in Northern Africa, and you are still able to clearly hear tape noise, then you should be concerned ;)
The other option is to record background sound seperatly with for example a minidisc, like I described in another thread.

[Brines]

How far away from the subject is ideal for the Rode Videomic? Could anyone estimate the angle that the mic picks up well from that distance, too?

[Lunchbox]

Here's the product manual from their web site

http://www.rodemic.com/downloads/videomic/videomic_product_manual.pdf

The specifications is on page 4

[cosler]

Can the MKE-300, or the VideoMic be used externally on a boom? Camera mounted is nice, but I'm looking for flexibility.

Thanks!

[guycochran]

The RODE Videomic and the Stereo Videomic can both be mounted on a boom pole via 1/4"-20 which is what you see on a tripod/monopod and also via a 3/8" stud which is what you find commonly on a boom pole. If you're shooting indoors, the SVM on a boom pole works surprisingly well. Listen over at http://dvcreators.net/products/rodesvm_movieframe.htm to see what it sounds like for indoor/outdoor dialogue, live music, and a helicopter taking off.

[Brines]

Where can I hear the Mono version of the VideoMic?

[Chicken Warrior]

Does it make sense to have suspicions that the stereo version might be more sensitive in a disadvantageous way for unplanned (doc) shooting?

With the sale at Jack's I can pretty much get either version for the same price, but if the mono version can pick up voices at a more consistent, safe, rate, I might actually prefer the cheaper version.

[Lunchbox]

Chicken Warrior, the VideoMic is a shotgun mic only pick up sound from one direction. The stereo VM is more of a omni-directional general usage mic. They are different.

The sound characteristics of these 2 mics are very different. The price is different too.

[arenson]

Hi

I am new here. Living in Japan. Found this site after looking for mic solutions. I read much of the thread here. here is what I have:


I bought the HV20 in the US. Now living in Japan, but found video store won't venture an opinion on non-manufacturer add-ons. So it looks like this is the place to ask:

I have AT 822 microphone. It has good sound quality, and looking at the specs compared to the Rode SVM, it seems similar. Actually a bit lower bass response. So, unless there is a reason, I would like to try to use this mic rather than go out and buy another.

1) REALLY basic question. The HOT shoe obviously won't power it, as it is a battery type. Like the SVM from Rode. Can I somehow attach this to the hotshoe? It originally came with these two attachments which I failed to keep, not having a use for them at the time:

--Gun-grip snap-in stand clamp for 5/8"-27 threaded stands
-- camera shoe mount adapter

2) If these are what I need, are they fairly standard parts that a good camera store would have, even made by someone else?

3) Mic cables:
It originally came with two:

--1.7' (0.5 m) cable (XLRF-type to stereo 3.5 mm mini-plug
--10' (3 m) cable (XLRF-type to two mono 3.5 mm mini-plugs
--Gun-grip snap-in stand clamp for 5/8"-27 threaded stands

These I have lost too. I guess I would use the first one if I am attaching the mic to the top of the camera. If I had it. I have written to Audio Techica to see if I can get another. Went to a music supply store (Miyaji) and they did not have. I suspect that this kind of supply is not so common in music store.
Maybe a big camera store?


The second cable is not very useful.


So I found ONE solution, but it is not a good one. I found a 10' (3 m) cable (XLRF-type to a STERO PHONO PLUG. Then plugged into a mini plug adapter. the problem is I have to hold the plug up for the stereo to work. Otherwise mono right channel only. Alternatively pulling the plug out of the adapter slightly. Hope it is not a jack problem with the Canon. Suspect it is a problem of the plug being too heavy......

So I guess what I need to ask is can I get a
long cable XLRF-type to a single stereo plug.

Thanks in advance.


For anyone interested in how this mic sounds, I can post sound sample of AT822 into HV20 if anyone wants to hear the sound (though I have to hold the mic plug!!). I can talk as well as sing (opera actually). In case you want to know the sound of the AT822.


PS

I found the camera is a great way to get sound into the mac, as all you have to do is put it in record mode (and not even push the record button). It will send sound that way or through the firewire if you DO make a recording. This is useful since my PPC G5 does not have a mic input and my other computer that is connected to the Firepod is in the room with the electric piano.



paul

[karin-igen]

hello
you can take a minitele 3.5" and connect it to a xlr connector

use pin 1 to the two ground cabels and pin 2 for two hot cabels
an u vill get mono signal on L-R chanel on the camera (if u dont have a sterio mic whith pin 1 ground/pin 2 left/pin 3 right chanel

For unbalanced output, connect to either pin 2 or 3 in the OUTPUT XLR connector. Pin 1 is return/ground.

The XLR plugs all connects balansed signals
Pin 1 = shield/ground
Pin 2 = ”hot” signal +
Pin 3 = ”cold” signal -
joakim

[nolonemo]

hello
you can take a minitele 3.5" and connect it to a xlr connector

use pin 1 to the two ground cabels and pin 2 for two hot cabels
an u vill get mono signal on L-R chanel on the camera (if u dont have a sterio mic whith pin 1 ground/pin 2 left/pin 3 right chanel

For unbalanced output, connect to either pin 2 or 3 in the OUTPUT XLR connector. Pin 1 is return/ground.

The XLR plugs all connects balansed signals
Pin 1 = shield/ground
Pin 2 = ”hot” signal +
Pin 3 = ”cold” signal -
joakim

It's possible that there may be some simple circuitry in the Audio Technica adapter for impedance matching. I don't know if there is, but I would check with Audio Technica to see. If so, using a straight adapter may adversely impact your audio quality.

[arenson]

Thanks for the note. I THINK that was an answer to my question, but not sure. I am not familiar with the word minitel. And I am not good at soldering irons. But thank you.

Anyway, I asked at Audio Technica and got the answer that all their parts are available to be ordered in the US. I called Japan AT and they said they are not normally supplied but probably could be ordered.

They said that I could connect the 1.7 inch XLDR cable to the camera with their camera mount shoe adaptor and gun grip snap in stand clamp. And extend the cable for hand-held and tripod use with any XLR (I guess female) cable. I didn't think of that.

So with the other parts I could mount the mic holder to the hot shoe and supposedly use this.

Which brings me to the question (which you may have been answering, but I am not sure):


1) Do you think this mic MOUNTED on top of the Canon will work. As I understand it, the hotshoe does not work but apparantly it is ok to attach this non powered mic to it. Or no? I don't want to damnage the camera by attaching it, if that is a problem.


2) Will 3rd party parts work? I mean, if I walk into a camera store and say I need Audio technica XLR-miniplug cable, A gun grip stand clamp and a camera shoe adaptor, non AT brands will do the job?


3) Just out of curiousity, do you think the fact that I used a phonoplug to mini plug adaptor and it was heavy is the reason for my connection problems?

I know these must sound like really basic questions, but that's my level of understanding at the moment.

Thanks in advance.

[arenson]

Hi...just discovered someone has pretty much the same problem as I do---so it pays to get this cleared up before purchasing new mic cables---in other words, something about it working when the plug is put in halfway is exactly the same phenomenon---->
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=6169


Happy at least I am not the only one with this kind of problem.

paul

[arenson]

It seems that the other person and I had a similar experience. In his case he was attempting to extend his two mono plugs with a stereo splitter that he thought was designed for that purpose. In fact, it was for taking a stereo signal and feeding it to TWO stereo headphones.

In my case I lost the original cable, so I bought a new XLR that terminates in what appears to be a stereo connector (big phono plug) and I inserted that in a stereo adaptor. But when that adaptor was plugged in, it resulted in the same thing: Mono or Stereo jammed into the mono right.

Even the Audio Technica guy said i could extend a small XLR to Stereo mini with an ordinary XLR cable, but that doesn't seem right.....

Anyway, if anyone wants to weigh in, the details are here:

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?p=50153#post50153


Thanks

paul

[filmer2007]

Hi
I am needing an external mic for my HV20.

I was looking at the RODE NTG-2. What other mics would you suggest I get? any better than this?

Has anyone got expierience with this mic?
Thanks

[nathan118]

I put this in another thread, but I thought I'd throw it here too. I did some testing with the hv20 and the dm-50 today. It's not super scientific, but it gave me a good idea what kind of settings I'd like to use for most of my shooting.

http://www.vimeo.com/651364

Sorry, I had it locked as private. It's fixed now.

[oleaa]

I just bought a Canon HV20 and wonder what kind of directional microphones you people recommend for this camera?

I have a Sennheiser MKE300 which pick up speech very good. What's also nice is that it's less prone to wind noise compared with Røde Videomic (that we have at work). But bass is more or less eliminated in my Sennheiser.

Røde has more bass, but (without doing any scientific research) I have an impression that the Røde Videomic is not very useful indoors. You get a kind of hollow sound (especially in small rooms), which I don't get with the Sennheiser. I guess this is because the lack of bass reception in MKE300.

I would like to buy a good directional microphone, that is good for indoor and outdoor use, that can be camera mounted (maybe with the Røde SM3 hotshoe mount) and used handheld. Because HV20 is such a small camera it can't be to long and heavy, but I want professional quality with build in battery and minijack connector.

I've also learned that long shotgun microphones are no good indoors.

Any advices from you people that hopefully have found a good mikrophone for this camera? Hope you can also tell me if there are any output level issues when connection a pro microphone to an amateur camera?

[kmaage]

If you are making movies of the new baby or your trip to Disney Land, you probably don't need a mic.I disagree. I bought my HV20 for the quality, and I love hearing all the subtle gurggles and sounds my newborn makes. The built in mic was just...harsh. Yuck.

I find the RØDE VideoMic to be very quiet, no motor noise on my endYep. Me too.

I am also trying to decide whether I should get the Canon DM-50 or Rode Videomic.I have used Canon's own DM-50 on a different camera and was suprised that I had to do a lot of noise reduction and levels work afterward to be able to hear people. Might have been something wrong with our setup perhaps.

Finally, the camera does look a little odd with a big-a** mic on top, but I love the sound (compared to the built in). Huge jump in quality for $150.

[pitonyak]

I spoke with someone who mentioned that they had a remote (wireless I think) microphone that they plugged directly into the church sound-board. They were then able to use the fully mixed sound directly on the tape.

Anny thoughts on what might work for this with an HV20?

[Devin Bone]

Hey All,

I'm thinking of purchasing the VideoMic... but will it stick far out in front of the camera, or far enough for it to be captured on film? Or is the Jury still out on this? Thanks.

D.Bone

[bwell]

so is using the hotshoe or whatever with the dm50 a requirement or just an option? I figure I would be using a boom pole most of the time if possible, would this eliminate the hiss i'm hearing on some of these tests?

thanks

[Lunchbox]

DM50 is powered by the camcorder's battery through the hotshoe (advance accessory shoe). You cannot mount it on a boom pole.