Product Placement

[Lederhosen19]

When I make my next film, I want to use products, but I want to know if its ok for internet and/or film competitions. [Specifically, Apple products]

[Ivan Fuentes]

the only ones you should care about, is Apple themselves.

[Lederhosen19]

Would they mind?
Not like they'd ever see it, considering its a movie I'm making for school.

[Ivan Fuentes]

Would they mind?
Not like they'd ever see it, considering its a movie I'm making for school.

of course they would!!!

no one wants thir trademark or products shown without control of the purpose of it in the film. plus, you mentioned festivals, which can become profit. even if they don't ever watch it, serious film festivals won't accept any film featuring a brand without its permission.

of course, sometimes if the product's appearance on screen doesn't alter something in the story, you can minimize it's appearance on screen, with clever shots that hide logos, or stuff like that.

[Lederhosen19]

Well I wanted to use an iPhone and MacBook Pro. But the iPhones you won't see the label, but on the MacBook you will. I can just adjust the camera angle to hide it.

[Ivan Fuentes]

yeap. plus, if you chose the macbook just because it looks nice, not impliyng that it HAS to be a macbook for the story to run, you can use it with no trouble... the apple logo can be a pain in the ass, but even if you can't hide it, you can just replace it with another logo, placing some sticker or whatever. heck, you could even ad the silhouette of a pear or a grape haha

[ChannelReviews]

For the classic movie Repo Man....they used all generic items. A can of beer was all white and just had "BEER" written on the side in black lettering. It made for a great running gag.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0087995/

[Erik Bien]

In Quentin Tarantino's films, whenever a character smokes it's always "Apple" cigarettes, his own made-up brand.

[koolpenguin89]

My baby sister watches a nickelodean show called "drake & josh", where all of the apple brand products they use have a pear instead (ipods, imacs, macbooks). they even give them different but similair names. "oh no, you broke my ipog!)

Dylan

[mattias]

even if they do care there's not much they can do. if somebody uses a computer or drives a car that just happens to be manufactured by somebody, which these objects typically are, that's perfectly fine. i'm not a lawyer and i don't know the terms but this is how it works. they have to show that you've infringed on the trademark, simply showing it is not an infringement. stay away from mentioning the name and don't make the brand a part of the story.

/matt

[blazer003]

Bottom line, unless it's a big TV or movie studio using their logo, which they could sue for lots of money, they're not going to care. As for film contests, everything is branded. The news doesn't have to blur out the NIKE swoosh on someone's shirt when they're interviewing them. I don't know, it would be interesting to get the opinion of someone in the know.

[mattias]

it's not just about money, mind you. they don't sue to make money, they sue to protect their trademarks. they have to according to the law or they can lose them.

/matt

[MithrilFox]

The news is a very different situation: journalists are offered a lot of freedom to show "reality."

For films, it's different... That's a fact of law.

I tend to favor using the full extent of our "fair use rights." Some deny that they are "rights," and say they are merely a "defense." In as far as fair use laws allow us to exercise our freedom of speech, it serves to allow for a "right" to be exercised, and therefore, "fair use" becomes in itself a "right;" the right to free speech.

If you use it it can be risky. For random uploads to YouTube or something, you could do, many do, and generally there are no repercussions. Could Apple sue? Sure, they could, anyone can sue. They don't care whether they can win or not, they know you don't have the resources to fight it.

If you've read all of the fair use laws and know a little of how it is used (see the Statement of Best Practices by the Center for Social Media), go ahead and do it in YouTube upload. You could remain as anonymous as possible if you don't want someone abusing the court system and fighting you through "attrition" (wearing down your finances rather than winning by actual law). Sony beat the makers of Bleem! though court battles; it was a war of attrition. Sony couldn't win in the traditional sense (they were wrong), but they could fight long enough to make the other side lose all desire to continue (financially, at least).

I consider that a huge abuse of the court systems, and there should be a simple solution, but there's not. Until there is, use an anonymous proxy and upload to YouTube, and enjoy your rights!

Now, as for film festivals or anything serious, you can't play it risky; they're tighter than a snare-drum when it comes to copyright, and "fair use" isn't considered a right or a privilege; it's non-applicable "wishful thinking" to these organizations. It's simple really: they just don't want any risk.

[1]

... if somebody uses a computer or drives a car that just happens to be manufactured by somebody, which these objects typically are, that's perfectly fine...

Yes, that is my understanding also. It is a fine line though, sometimes.

[Duke]

Usually it would be the logo trademarked, not the car or computer. Shoot at an angle that doesn't show the logo, or cover it up, so you have a generic car or computer.

Duke

[SpiritCatcher]

If you have a script/storyboard and you share this with them BEFORE, and it does not make fun/show their product in a negative way...they may give you permission and or SWAG....companies send scripted shows product for free/loan in hopes of them using them...since this is just for school (not Youtube/profit and yes myspace/Youtube etc is for THEIR profit, as you give them permission to use your content for their promo/advertising content when you sign up) Best of luck.

[klawchi]

What? Sue me for showing their Logo in my film or show?!
I always thought they will be happy if their logo shows in the movies or shows!
It's some kind of free commercial i thought!!

[Ivan Fuentes]

they don't want their name/brand appearing anywhere. and they do have the right to choose where they appear.

[kafeero]

I am not a lawyer so do not take my word for it
For documentaries it is OK to use not only logos but also music and images if it is part of the story and reality.
Read
Documentary Filmmakers' Statement of Best Practices in Fair Use, from the Center for Social Media at the American University Washington College of Law (November 18, 2005)
Type it into Google. I'm not sure if I am allowed to link it.

Remember this is for Documentaries only.

[Ivan Fuentes]

yeap. indeed i had to give some study to the use of music in documentaries. i had a great shot of this guy, greatly accompained by some linkin park songs... since they were in reality on his stereo, I should have been able to use them as long as I proved they were indeed there (diegetic music). but this music gave too much strengh to the moment's emotion (incidental music), meaning that I was in fact using it for my film's purpose of emotion. I was, in fact, accidentally stealing from Linkin Park. But stealing anyway. It would have been different if I could have showed it in anyway as non incidental music (I know, I tend to repeat the same thing a lot of times... I just like to be sure everyone gets it).

[1]

For documentaries it is OK to use not only logos but also music and images if it is part of the story and reality. <>
Read Documentary Filmmakers' Statement of Best Practices in Fair Use<>

This is so ambiguous, it's not even funny. That "Documentary Filmmakers' Statement of Best Practices in Fair Use" is more like a wishful interpretation of the law, and more like a guide than a proper rule book, VERY much like the 'code' in Pirates of The Caribbean! :)

You REALLY are best to get a lawyer, if your production is intended for broadcast.

[kafeero]

Listen to 1. If the project is very big and is going to be broadcast and is getting a lot of attention then get a lawyer.

[kafeero]

BTW the description of Copyright & Fair Use in Documentary Film
on http://www.centerforsocialmedia.org/resources/fair_use/

Fair use is the right, in some circumstances, to quote copyrighted material without asking permission or paying for it. It is a crucial feature of copyright law and what keeps copyright from being censorship. You can invoke fair use when the value to the public of what you are saying outweighs the cost to the private owner of the copyright.

This is what they say. Not me.

[1]

You can invoke fair use...

Yeah, I know that's what they say, but just because you "invoke" it, doesn't mean you won't have to defend that invocation (sic :)) in a court of law at a GREAT expense to you: financially, emotionally, and time-consumingly (sic).


I've mentioned this before, but this following publication is probably a much more realistic look at the situation. It deals with Public Domain, Fair Use, and trademark issues, especially written for documentary films:
http://www.law.duke.edu/cspd/comics/digital.php

Direct link to the HTML version:
http://www.law.duke.edu/cspd/comics/zoomcomic.html

Direct link to the PDF download version:
http://www.law.duke.edu/cspd/comics/pdf/cspdcomichigh.pdf

I can't recommend this too much; it's well worth the read to get a basic understanding of many of the concerns/issues/problems.

As an example; it mentiones how for MAD HOT BALLROOM (a docu) some phone started ringing, and the phone's tune was the Rocky theme. EMI asked for $10000 (which the producers managed to reduce in the end); or how, for the same film, someone yelled "Everybody dance now" and Warner Chappell asked for $5000. They cut that scene out of the film.
Those were your "typical FAIR USE cases", that are so OFTEN considered to be "no problem" by many HV20.com members.

Reality, I'm afraid, is somewhat different!

:hv20-smilie77:

[kafeero]

basically get a lawyer when going big
:hv20-smilie77:

[1]

basically get a lawyer when going big

Well, that's part of it, yes.

Get a lawyer "when going big", and DON'T USE copyrighted material and/or trademarks if you're "going small".

Just because you're not "going big" doesn't make it any less ILLEGAL!

You're not allowed to randomly stab someone with a knife in public with heaps of people watching,
but you're also not allowed to randomly stab someone with a knife in the woods when no one is watching! :hv20-smilie77:

[kafeero]

I read the comic and it also mentions something I ignored. Even though sometimes the filmmaker is using music, etc properly (fair use) the big companies might still sue. And this is as 1 said a GREAT expense to you: financially, emotionally, and time-consumingly