White Balance automatic/manual

[hvheinz]

Hi all,
would like to open this thread in order to share your experience with
the 'White Balance' options on the HV20.
Reading this Forum in detail and having just done some test myself
I would like you to share information.
Please see my test here: http://www.vimeo.com/646713
Questions and discussion items are:
a) Use of and settings of 'White balance'
b) Manual White balance: How do you do it and when ?
c) Need of a professional 'White card'
Looking forward to this discussion
Best regards

[mattias]

i come from the film world so i like to use the presets. in general you know if you're shooting under tungsten or daylight and can set accordingly. if a light is warmer it's fine if not desirable that it actually looks warmer, and vice versa. however there are situations, often when shooting documentary style and the lighting is just too mixed or i want to change the look of reality, i.e. to make an overcast day look warmer, and then i use anything that's white basically, it's usually easy to find something that's close enough to pure white. if i want extra warmth in overcast contitions i often use the sky. that's a "trick" you should try because it can often look very cool.

auto? what's that?

/matt

[Lou van Wijhe]

I also always use the presets, fast and positive. Never on auto, no white balance setting. On very rare occasions I need to do some colour tuning in post.

Lou

[Erik Bien]

One situation where I usually try to manually white balance on a white target is shooting multi-camera coverage of an event: it's usually easier to get a bunch of different cameras to match if they've all been WB'd to the same target under the same lighting.

[lordtangent]

I like to use the preset white balance settings also. It's a lot easier to imagine what colors you are going to get with "other" light sources when you you can just think "I'm shooting tungsten" ort "I'm shooting daylight"

Having said that, I do sometimes white balance with a home made "warm card" to bake a slightly warmer feeling into the footage. But I use it the same way as the presets. i.e. I white balance for tungsten or daylight and then adjust the colors of the lights to get special effects beyond that (film-style)

Unless I'm shooting home videos I ALWAYS lock white balance.

[astrogreek]

Questions and discussion items are:
a) Use of and settings of 'White balance'
b) Manual White balance: How do you do it and when ?
c) Need of a professional 'White card'
Looking forward to this discussion
Best regards

Perhaps unlike most others, I am not all that satisfied with the color balance I get from my HV20. Especially skin tones look quite far off. I did a few tests in sunlight comparing colors (including skin tones) using automatic white balance, daylight setting, or manual white balance from a white sheet and a white paper (back of a poster), respectively. The results convinced me that a lot can be gained by using manual white balance with a white card.

My main findings:
- the automatic setting tends to give a too cold image.
- the daylight setting is quite good in sunlight, but...
- the manual white balance using a white poster gave the best results.
- the manual white balance using a white sheet gave a too yellow result, because the paper was bluish. The bluishness was only apparent when the sheet was compared to the poster. It is not easy to tell what is really white, and what is _almost_ white.

I will try to find a real white card in a photoshop and do some more tests. Perhaps I will also get the Warmcards.

[Lou van Wijhe]

- the manual white balance using a white sheet gave a too yellow result, because the paper was bluish. The bluishness was only apparent when the sheet was compared to the poster. It is not easy to tell what is really white, and what is _almost_ white.
You could get yourself a set of Kodak Gray Cards (click) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/27715-REG/Kodak_1903061_Gray_Cards.html). The gray side has 18% reflectance and the back side is 90% white and -since it comes from an expert company- I suppose this is really white. The set comes with complete instructions for use.

Lou

P.S.
I just realised that for white balancing you might just as well use the gray side of the card. It is neutral gray after all and this also minimises the risk of exceeding the luminance limit of the camera's sensor.

[beta75]

As a working photographer i use Auto and manual WB.
The presets are always wrong. Maybe less tha auto in some situions but still wrong.
The thing i miss is the kelvin set as i have in my DSLR. That would be great.

AUTO if its fast, have to move around, catch a moment.
Manual the rest of the time.
The presest is only for those times when i have to lock the WB and dont have anything to mesure against. Like a sunset...

/KN

[bytehoven]

Having said that, I do sometimes white balance with a home made "warm card" to bake a slightly warmer feeling into the footage. But I use it the same way as the presets.

Warm cards for various light conditions are a great tool.

It would be nice to have white balance offset on the HV20 like there is on some other cameras, which can help you cheat your way to the same place.

[Erik Bien]

I'm somewhat amazed the HV20 has not one but two white-balance presets for fluorescent lights! (Fortunately, I haven't had yet had to shoot under icky cool white flos, so I don't know how well they work.)

[lordtangent]

The thing i miss is the kelvin set as i have in my DSLR. That would be great.

Yeah. That would be great. But you know what would be even better would be a small video camera like the HV20 that could shoot RAW. yeah... that would be crazy cool.

[hvheinz]

Hi all,
many thanks to all your postings !
They are all very welcome and will help me for furture shootings.
I just bought a book 'Das Profihandbuch zur Canon HV20'
In there I could read that White Balance while used in 'Automatic' mode
can not be altered and that it is set to 'Tungsten' in this mode.
Is that correct ?
And if so: How will this work in different enviroments ?
I'm a bit confused now..but will playing around
happy shootings

[V10TDI]

I use the expodisc (http://www.expoimaging.net/products/product_detail.php?prodid=2) and I like the results.

[Peter]

An "amateur" question here... (not used to using white balance before, as my former cameras and camcorders has done this quite satisfying in "auto" mode):

I shoot mostly on "water". And sometimes in overcast conditions.

Use the "Tv" setting with 1/120 second as I make frame grabs that has to be "sharp". The Aperture has to settle to this then... But I know this is the best combination of light/shutter time out of experience.

BUT - the auto white balance setting always end up with extremely GREY pictures/video ! Can be post enhanced of course, but you always has some loss this way, and not easy to do in video.

Can anyone explain which white balance to use, or how to test which to use or what to do to set it manual maybe ?

It seems to be the exact same "greyish" colour every time I shoot video and make screen captures - so my "conditions" are apparently mostly the same (which should make it easier if one chooses to make a manual setting...)

My old Sony had no problems getting the WB right most of the times, in reasonable light conditions.

But the HV20 is ALWAYS grey and dark (the sky especially, always much too grey), even with an aperture of higher than 5.6 !

So something basic must be wrong (I hope - otherwise it is a mamamamaty camera...)

Can anyone help me about "how to" or from experience ?

In fact the ONLY really bad experience I've had with this camera...

Kindly, Peter Frank

[bimpatiens]

I use the expodisc (http://www.expoimaging.net/products/product_detail.php?prodid=2) and I like the results.

I'm curious - how do you use "exposdisc?"