Scarlet

[muroshi]

I start a thread for the Scarlet, the new 2k (resolution) pocket-camera from Red, which should be announced at NAB 2008.

[Goose]

Do we definitely know it's 2k? I thought no details have been confirmed yet?

[Wes Vasher]

The resolution has not be announced. RED just says it's a pocket professional camera, whatever that means.

[DaFireMedic]

Is there an estimated cost yet?

[Erik Bien]

We know:

1 - it will be called Scarlet
2 - it will be a "professional pocket digital cinema camera"
3 - we won't know anything more officially before NAB in mid-April.

Anything beyond that is unconfirmed speculation or a wild-assed guess.

[Mal]

In other words, we know sweet f'all.

The announcement of the name was merely a ruse.

[muroshi]

Jim registered scarlet 2k at the patent office as a brand name, so it most likely will be 2k.

[muroshi]

And here is it :)

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

Separated at birth??

The RED Scarlet:
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/07/7-10-08-red_scarlet.jpg
My hair dryer:
http://www.samstores.com/_images/products/Braun%20BC1400%20Grey%20Travel%20Hair%20Dryer.jpg

At least my hair dryer comes with a wide-angle adapter as you can see.

[Zacatac]

Oh scarlet how i love thee...

3k for $3K..

[Erik Bien]

Hear hear!

It can look like a hat-rack for all I care, so long as it costs three grand and rivals the F-23 (http://www.scarletuser.com/showthread.php?p=7794#post7794)!

[OOKfilms]

does anyone have a flat panel that will handle that resolution? incredible technology for the money..... looks like something out of the transformer movie....

[spideralex90]

Whether it rivals the f-23 is something different, the f-23 will have way more manual controls, the scarlet should more or less be thought of as the HV20 of the professional world. The video will be amazing, the manual comtrol will be decent, but there will more than likely be add ons. But 3 grand for half imax picture? That's a great deal.

[um3k]

Why do you think Scarlet will have less manual controls than the F23? I'm sure it will have the necessary ones, like shutter speed, aperture, sensitivity (ISO/gain), focus, and white balance. It will also have adjustable frame rates. The various in-camera image tweaks of the F23, such as gamma and sharpening, are completely unnecessary with the Scarlet due to the raw workflow. All that stuff will be done in post.

[Kyleman]

Man I can't wait for this camera. :hv20-smilie32:


-Kyle

[lordtangent]

I'm not buying any more video equipment until I can at least compare it to the Scarlett when it ships. I'm SO excited about that camera it's silly.

[Kyleman]

I'm not buying any more video equipment until I can at least compare it to the Scarlett when it ships. I'm SO excited about that camera it's silly.

Me too. I'm going to get a new microphone setup and maybe some other smaller accessories and that's it.


-Kyle

[Erik Bien]

A few new renders (http://www.scarletuser.com/showthread.php?t=448) of Scarlet are up ...

[Kyleman]

A few new renders (http://www.scarletuser.com/showthread.php?t=448) of Scarlet are up ...

I saw those, makes me want the Scarlet even more.


-Kyle

[Dr. Benway]

I think this is classic treadmill consumerism;keep running after the dangling cheese Spend Mouse!

Until you are capable of going way beyond the capabilities of your current gear and can make coin from your kit you can't afford such luxuries.

Feeling impotent? Do you doubt your kit? HV feeling a little... soft? Then buy a MANS camera! He, he, he.

Possibly.

[1]

"I think this is classic treadmill consumerism;keep running after the dangling cheese Spend Mouse! "

Well said, Dr.

[Lucasberg]

I want Scarlet for one reason -- 120fps and 5 seconds of 180fps. My HV20 doesnt do that, but I'm a Slow-mo Freak.

[jehugarcia]

One client told me scarlet would put the Dof industry out of business, But with a fixed lens and not knowing the size of the CMOS, I think Scarlet might benefit from Dof adapters.

Is this crazy talk or is there some truth to this?

[Erik Bien]

I'm sure it will work both ways: some folks (probably to include me) will be relieved to finally have 2/3" DoF (which, btw, is the size of Scarlet's CMOS), roughly comparable to 16mm film and 2/3" cameras like Sony's F23, and gladly leave the 35mm adapters at home.

Others will no doubt be screwing on a Brevis or Letus Extreme as soon as they unbox and basking in vignetty, shallow-focus glory.

[1]

Is this crazy talk or is there some truth to this?

Scarlet will have a tiny little bit more impact on the world than what RED ONE did/has - but that was/is virtually zilch.

[Erik Bien]

Scarlet will have a tiny little bit more impact on the world than what RED ONE did/has - but that was/is virtually zilch.

Undoubtedly true, but in the less-global sense it can make a big impact: I still haven't gotten my mitts on my buddy's RED because even in his small market, he's so swamped with client demand he's had to postpone or cancel all the little "fun artistic" projects we had planned to do paid spots/corporate work.

(BTW, mal: have you taken delivery of your camera?)

[lordtangent]

I think this is classic treadmill consumerism;keep running after the dangling cheese Spend Mouse!

Until you are capable of going way beyond the capabilities of your current gear and can make coin from your kit you can't afford such luxuries.

Feeling impotent? Do you doubt your kit? HV feeling a little... soft? Then buy a MANS camera! He, he, he.

Possibly.

I can tell you the HV20 does not cut it for me technically. So my desire to upgrade isn't due to carrots or cheese. The manual controls on the HV20 are a joke which means using it like a "real" camera is an exercise in pain. And it only shoots at 24p or 60i. Being fair to the HV20, I think it's a great value for the price. But I'm frustrated at it's lack of certain features I consider requisite.

Honestly, the Scarlet (if it lives up to the published specs) wouldsatisfy me for quite some time. It will be the first "pro" video camera to ever be cheap enough that I consider it a good value. That's exciting! It will do the job for me until the HDTV specifications change and move up to something like 4k. Really, the only thing I can find in the specs that I would feel tempted to complain about at all is the speed of the lens (f2.8... I'd like something faster at full wide zoom if possible). And of course it's like almost all digital cameras in it;s lack of dynamic range relative to FILM (which is still the KING in that dept.) Otherwise it's perfect. If they considerably upgraded the dynamic range at some point I might spring for an upgrade. But I imagine I will get 5-10 years out of the Scarlet (like I did out of my original DV cam)

In this era of HDV and AVCHD the cameras seem to change almost imperceptibly each generation. THAT is the cheese wheel.

But Scarlet changes the game big time. It's all about exposing the full power of the hardware rather than crippling the camera in strange ways. And the Scarlet will even have on board delayering like a regular camera, for those who don't want to deal with RAWs, etc.



Scarlet will have a tiny little bit more impact on the world than what RED ONE did/has - but that was/is virtually zilch.


First I want to say, who says it needs to change ANYTHING? If it exsists and can be my personal "secret weapon" I don't care if anyone else in the world knows or cares about it at all. All I know is that I want it.

Having said that...
I'm not sure what industry you are talking about. The RED ONE is getting a lot of love not just by Indy film guys, but by non-indy guys as well. At Cinegear expo in the aerial cinematography booths it was like a love-fest for the Red One. They think it's great they can shoot 4k and not have to land every 11 minutes to reload. They were playing Red footage in their booths and it was very impressive.

You can BUY a Red One outright for what a Panavision Genesis costs to rent for one WEEK. And the Red One is arguably a better camera in many respects. Due to the price alone, the Red will rent for less for people who want to rent it. Once more become available via reputable rental houses, the camera really will change the land scape of the rental scene.

Scarlet takes all that is good about the Red One and makes it more accessible by dropping the price to the point where normal mortals can think about buying it... and adding automatic exposure, on board debayer, etc. It makes the Red technology less of a "Digital Cinema Camera" and more of a "High End Video Camera". I would not be surprised to see a lot of shooters of even things like weddings and parties choose the Scarlet over something like an HVX or EX-1. There is no reason you couldn't get usable images straight off the camera with no fussing around in post as required by the Red One. The form factor looks pro for those image-conscious shooters... And the Scarlet is slated to be HALF the price of an EX-1. I think a lot of people would consider the Scarlet as a very competitive and economical option to the EX-1. It's even cheap enough that many regular camera-file "consumer" type buyers might even consider it.

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

Well said lordtangent.

[orchidsofwrath]

I wish it wasn't pocket sized. Its a benefit in some ways, but for me in most ways its a detriment. Thats my biggest pet peeve of the HV20. Too damn dinky.

[Kyleman]

The Scarlet won't be dinky, its made out of aluminum.


-Kyle

[Goose]

I love the new renders - its looking great

[Kyleman]

I love the new renders - its looking great


Hell yeah. Jim was nice to give us a closer look of the buttons.


-Kyle

[DaFireMedic]

I wonder if RED is going to be able to keep up with the demand or if there will be a wait once its released. My guess is that they do not have the production capabilities that the big electronic companies have.

[Kyleman]

A lot of people wondered about that. But RED will not be the only retailer, and there's no deposit system this time either.


-Kyle

[orchidsofwrath]

The Scarlet won't be dinky, its made out of aluminum.


-Kyle

I meant too small.

[1]

First I want to say, who says it needs to change ANYTHING?


Err.....all the fan-boys and girls? We've been hearing that over and over and over, including on this site.

Revolutionary....
Change the industry....
Turn [xxx] upside down...
etc. etc.



I agree with you, BTW.

[1]

(BTW, mal: have you taken delivery of your camera?)


Nah, I took an unexpected job in Beijing (which is VERY time consuming....gosh, I hate these day jobs....:hv20-smilie03:), so am debating with myself to either take delivery now, or wait for Scarlet.

[RicanJoe]

http://senorsexypants.googlepages.com/9_scarletsidesmcopy.jpg
This is hot

[fantomaz]

I wonder if RED is going to be able to keep up with the demand or if there will be a wait once its released. My guess is that they do not have the production capabilities that the big electronic companies have.

i cant imagine they can handle such a demand or lets say rush! i mean its like everyone wants it. how is it with your ambience? in my it seems anyyone who is in videobuisness or better said anyone i know who has to do with video talks about the scarlet as the one (affordable and pro)! :hv20-smilie58: in internetforums i think i read hundreds or thoudands times "i wait for the scarlet....." for example i was planning for years to switch from dv (canon xm2 + gs400) to hd with something like the xha1. because of the scarlet i bought the hv30 first to kind of look into hd(v) and save some money. i mean do you think there is ANY reason to buy a xha1 or ex1? :hv20-smilie51: imo the scarlet will have a raving success in most or every video branch. :hv20-smilie68:
maybe you guys in the states will get it relatively soon after release however i count on getting it in smth like the end of 2009 at the earliest btw i hope im mistaken...

regards

[Duke]

Did anyone one notice the posts in Scarletuser saying that it was 3k with effective pixels of 2.1k??

Going from 1920 to 2.1k doesn't seem like a hot jump with a fixed lens.

Duke

[Kyleman]

I noticed that, but some people said that it was really 3k. It's kinda confusing as there's no solid facts yet. A lot of people are just speculating.


-Kyle

[Kyleman]

I was thinking about upgrading to an XHA1 but I don't want to buy one and only a few months later have to sell it to get a Scarlet. I really hope they release it by early 2009. Just getting tired of the HV20's lack of manual controls.


-Kyle

[Erik Bien]

Did anyone one notice the posts in Scarletuser saying that it was 3k with effective pixels of 2.1k??

Going from 1920 to 2.1k doesn't seem like a hot jump with a fixed lens.


What they mean is 2.1K measureable resolution once the RAW Bayer data is converted to RGB (72% of 3K). AFAIK, this is excellent (most de-bayering schemes seem to resolve around 65-70% of the photosite count of the sensor).

[Ian-T]

This is hotThe camera is actually not that small.

[brockraum]

This is all fine and great but handling the 3k footage in an editing program might be a bit of a problem.

I got my hands on some raw 4k red footage earlier in the year. It was a nightmare on my mac pro, I've heard you have to have at least a quad core and 4 gigs of ram to do anything with it.

but that was just my experience.

-brock

[1]

I was thinking about upgrading to an XHA1 but I don't want to buy one and only a few months later have to sell it to get a Scarlet. I really hope they release it by early 2009. Just getting tired of the HV20's lack of manual controls.


-Kyle

You could get one year's of use out of that XHA1 if you buy now. For some that makes sense and you could have it paid off if you make money with this stuff.

Don't expect to be able to get a working (not BETA) Scarlet before mid-2009. My guess is August-September at the earliest.

[Kyleman]

You've got a point. Only downside is that I would have to get a credit card or a personal loan and pay it off that way (I only make minimum wage). I have enough good credit score to get a loan/higher credit card limit. As of now I don't make any money from filming but I have an instructor at college that likes my work and she could probably hook me up with something. I'll consider doing this. I love my HV20 but the lack of manual controls are killing me.

-Kyle

[1]

Understood.

[Ian-T]

This is all fine and great but handling the 3k footage in an editing program might be a bit of a problem.

I got my hands on some raw 4k red footage earlier in the year. It was a nightmare on my mac pro, I've heard you have to have at least a quad core and 4 gigs of ram to do anything with it.

but that was just my experience.

-brockActually, I don't think that would be a real issue because, for me at least, I like the thought of being able to downrezz to 1080p or 720p....in maybe Cineform or something manageable...knowing that it will look better than cams that actually shoot those sizes (sort of like how the HV20 down rezzed to 720x480p looks better than...let's say...the DVX that shoots at that size). Most of us will just be displaying our stuff on the Web or HD televisions anyways...so editing 3k in its full glory would be a waste of time (IMO). I just like the thought of oversampling..

[brockraum]

Actually, I don't think that would be a real issue because, for me at least, I like the thought of being able to downrezz to 1080p or 720p....in maybe Cineform or something manageable...knowing that it will look better than cams that actually shoot those sizes (sort of like how the HV20 down rezzed to 720x480p looks better than...let's say...the DVX that shoots at that size). Most of us will just be displaying our stuff on the Web or HD televisions anyways...so editing 3k in its full glory would be a waste of time (IMO). I just like the thought of oversampling..

understandable, but that just means alot of extra conversion time, to some that would be perfectly fine, but im sure some wouldnt want to deal with it. I strongly doubt there will be an incam downres option like on the hv20, I wish there would be, that would be a dream.

[Erik Bien]

I strongly doubt there will be an incam downres option like on the hv20, I wish there would be, that would be a dream.

According to the specs (still subject to change, of course) Scarlet will have both HDMI and HD-SDI outs. I assume that means some sort of HD RGB signal will come out of them!

[brockraum]

According to the specs (still subject to change, of course) Scarlet will have both HDMI and HD-SDI outs. I assume that means some sort of HD RGB signal will come out of them!

Hmmm good eye!

-brock

[Lucasberg]

I read that Scarlet will probably shoot in 1080P RGB, What is that?

Is it a different format then RAW ?

Will it be easier to edit than RAW?

Will 1080P RGB still be able to shoot in 120fps ?

I really thinking of either a HMC-150 or Scarlet as my next cam. Of course both have to come out to compare but Scarlets workflow scares me that it's just too much of a pain to edit.

[Erik Bien]

I read that Scarlet will probably shoot in 1080P RGB, What is that?

Is it a different format then RAW?


Yes, RGB will be different from RAW, but unless I've missed it RED haven't yet said exactly which codec they'll use. As of the latest firmware build, RED One can playback, but not live monitor, 10 bit 1080p over HD-SDI and HDMI (4:2:2 single link or 4:4:4 dual link), but the signal is true progressive, not "progressive segmented frame," so while a D5 deck for example can record it, an HDCAM SR deck cannot, at least not without a convertor box.

At the moment, for jobs where fast turn-around is more important than ultimate quality or where clients want to incorporate RED footage into their existing workflows without learning any new software it's a useful tool.

But I suspect as more applications develop native support for RED's .R3D file format and proxies (RED have said they will release their SDK before the end of August, which is the last step needed for third parties to officially support the format) and as processing times get faster people will start to appreciate all the benefits of working in 12 bit RAW and be willing to put up with a bit of render time when deadlines permit to wring the ultimate quality out of the camera.

[Lucasberg]

Thanks Eric,

That helped alot. Im really looking forward to Scarlet coming out.

[Erik Bien]

RED released their System Developer's Kit today (ahead of schedule) and the RED One's firmware (Build 16 for those following along at home) has officially shed its beta status and become a release build -- so it's now officially time for reservation holders who haven't taken delivery of their cameras to "fish or cut bait."

Among the more amazing ramifications: "Within a week, RED R3D files will open natively in CS3 Premiere Pro and After Effects. (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16967)"
:hv20-smilie117:

[Sagefox]

At last! YES.

[dcloud]

http://i36.tinypic.com/mt9qqb.png
anyone wants to bet how many accesories the scarlet will have?

[Kyleman]

:hv20-smilie117: Is that a recent image? If so that looks AWESOME! I like how it's kinda like a DSLR.


-Kyle