Low light tip!

[colto]

Ok so today I took my new HV20 to my film class. We hooked it up to an hdtv and it looked awesome through the included component cable. However when about half of the lights were turned off I started getting some grain in dark areas(shadows, etc.). However whenever I turned on cine mode ALL of my grain disappeared. I was even able to turn off almost all of the lights in the studio before I started showing grain. Very low light levels(probably equal to having a dark room lit only by a computer monitor) without noticeable grain. Sweet!:hv20-smilie45:

[robsherlock]

i was shooting some stuff tonight just as the sun was setting and even after it had gone down i kept shooting with differant modes... ie night... and the picture was beautifull it looked awesome... yeah and i really noticed when the 24 frames a second and the cine mode were on, the footage looked so much like 35mm quality when viewed on a 60 inch screen... i must have said "oh my god thats so cool a couple of hundred times today... the lower light conditions were no problem with the presets that come with the camera and i really liked the blc button on the side of the cam... it does such a great job with backlit subjects. there are so many good things about this camera... the only thing though... when i capture the hd footage onto my computer... mac osx... notebook pro... amazing computer... looks great but the footage takes a couple gigs storage for every three minutes captured. im just using the hd editor in ilife06.... works great but is there a way to compress the footage for editing without a significant loss in picture quality...

Oh my god this freaking camera is so cool and 24f[s looks so cool... heavan. im so excited about film making again. Canon hv20 blows away the competition with coolness alone. Yeah when im in ilife 06 is there a way to change the prefferances so that i can safe my video clips in an exernal hard drive? the 80 on my laptop isnt sufficient and the clips that are importing now are too big..

[bruny]

robsherlock - are you capturing the video with any compression at all, or are you uncompressing it? If you are not using the HDV compression, you will use about 3-5 times the drive space you would use with the HDV compression.

If you are shooting 24p, you can remove the pulldown and convert it back to a 24p HDV file, so you get your drive space back.

There is another thread in the forums on workflows for compressing, and I would bet that you could make use of at least some of that info w/in iLife.

/bruny

[Mal]

"oh my god thats so cool"...

Hehehe, love it! :hv20-smilie77:


However whenever I turned on cine mode ALL of my grain disappeared.

WOW, I haven't done low light tests yet; sounds very good though! :hv20-smilie77:

GREAT reports!

[Prisma]

robsherlock - are you capturing the video with any compression at all, or are you uncompressing it? If you are not using the HDV compression, you will use about 3-5 times the drive space you would use with the HDV compression.

If you are shooting 24p, you can remove the pulldown and convert it back to a 24p HDV file, so you get your drive space back.

There is another thread in the forums on workflows for compressing, and I would bet that you could make use of at least some of that info w/in iLife.

/bruny

Hey bruny i have sony vegas 7 and I want to order a HV20 camcorder. Can you explain please what kind of editing software are you using rigth now? If you do HDV compresion it does not affect the quality of the footage? My plan is to shoot some shorts so i want to be able to transfer to film.

Thanks

[Lagume]

For saving to an external hard drive in iMovie, just create a new iMovie project and choose the file location as somewhere on the external hard drive. Now import your video to that project and voila... it's now on your external hard drive. I am doing this exact thing... external hard drive, MacBook Pro, iMovie..... etc. works great!

[duzzit_madder]

...is there a way to compress the footage for editing without a significant loss in picture qualityIn Vegas, you can write scripts that will let you do some pretty funky things and I'll bet there's a script already written that will let you capture in DV mode for smaller files, edit them the way you want then have Vegas specify the start and stop times on the tape and then you'd only have to capture what you need in HDV.

Something like that maybe?

[24Peter]

In Vegas, you can write scripts that will let you do some pretty funky things and I'll bet there's a script already written that will let you capture in DV mode for smaller files, edit them the way you want then have Vegas specify the start and stop times on the tape and then you'd only have to capture what you need in HDV.

Something like that maybe?

Guys - DV and HDV have the exact same bit rates - namely 25mbps = ~ 3.1MBps which means they'll take up the same amount of space on your hard drive capturing in an HDV friendly NLE like Vegas or (I assume) iLife.

Compression (or lack thereof) does arise if you're using an intermediate file format like the .avi's produced by the Cineform products, or if you're capturing via HDMI into a BlackMagic Intensity card, etc.

But for the average joe, in terms of file size at least, there is no difference between DV and HDV. That why one hour mini-DV tapes are still one hour for HDV cameras.

As for transferring digital video to film, the last time I checked it was
in the range of $300-500 per minute, plus the cost of making prints ($500 + depending on how long the film is.) Most film festivals now accept films as digital files on everything from standard DVD's on up. Thus very few films (short films esp.) are being transferred to actual film these days. But if you really want to do it, contact one of the post-production houses in NY or LA (or one of the major European cities if that's where you live) and find out what their suggestions are regarding shooting and editing HDV for film out.

[Mal]

Guys - DV and HDV have the exact same bit rates ....

Good point, 24Peter, although duzzit-madder's idea for a script would still hold value, as the editing of HDV footage is much more processor intensive, and requires a far more powerful computer than editing DV.
So the script might come in handy for rough editing DV on a slower laptop, then editing the HDV footage on a desktop.

[bruny]

Prisma - I have both Windows (Adobe Production Studio) and OS (Final Cut Studio) but with the HV20 I have so far just captured with the HDV 1080i60 setting in FCP, Convert to AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) with MPEG Streamclip, then remove the pulldown with Cinema Tools (manually, and a pain in the butt, but it's all I have found so far), and then convert *back* to HDV 24p with MPEG Streamclip again. Its an absolute pain in the butt, but I like the end result so its worth it to me.

[LiveFromNY]

The HV20 also has a "night" setting/preprogram? Has anyone compared the quality of grain under low light in cin to that option? They may be doing at least some of the same things.

[PWHerman]

The HV20 also has a "night" setting/preprogram? Has anyone compared the quality of grain under low light in cin to that option? They may be doing at least some of the same things.

The "night" mode is totally different from CineMode. All it does is reduce the shutter speed to a ridiculous amount and attempt to make everything more "light" at night. This huge reduction in shutter speed makes everything jerk and jump around, and the image is pretty much unbearable. If you're shooting a still scene at night (perhaps off a tripod or something), then the night mode might be suitable, but I have found it to be very unusable and unviewable in any practical (or casual) night-shooting situations.

Try to get close to whatever it is you're trying to shoot at night and just turn on the light on the HV20 (if your shot will allow it) -- I've found it to be quite good, actually. Bumping the shutter speed down to 1/15 also helps a bit in addition to that (without adding too much jerkiness).

Now what CineMode will do is just remove grain...it actually darkens up the image quite a bit. So, CineMode is actually not very comparable to night mode.

So all in all:

CineMode = good grain remover, yet darkens & softens the overall image
Night Mode = brightens the image, but you get ridiculous jerking

[Rikki]

How does cinemode remove this grain without dropping shutter and increasing gain?

[PWHerman]

Heh, don't ask me...all I know is that it effectively does it. It just softens & darkens the image a little, which are two things that help attribute the removal of most visible grain. I really have no clue what the camera does internally regarding the CineMode, but I'm starting to like it more and more! It really gives you a more unique and precise image!

[LiveFromNY]

Yes, played with Cin mode a bit today and see how it darkens the image--quite appreciably really. So what I am thinking is that where other modes allow the gain to kick in, could it be that the cin mode does not allow gain to be turned on? Or limits it to lower values?

[PWHerman]

Yes, played with Cin mode a bit today and see how it darkens the image--quite appreciably really. So what I am thinking is that where other modes allow the gain to kick in, could it be that the cin mode does not allow gain to be turned on? Or limits it to lower values?

Possibly...

All I know is that I'm starting to like it more and more, especially when I have sufficient light and/or when there's too much visible grain. I also like to kick on Vivid mode as an extra to make the colors "pop" a little more. That seems to help quite a bit at that.

[BarnOwl]

It is actually 24/25 P that increases low light performance incredibly, not so Cine Mode.
Just play around with the settings and see what they do in a low light environment. It is easily done with the cam: put it in "P" mode and just look at the lcd while playing with the manual settings. Or even better: Hook it up on the TV.,.......