Really good 35mm DOF Adapter website [Archive] - High Definition Digital Video Forum

ForwardLooker

2007 June 21st, 07:10

Heres some pics of my Adapter.

Front, Back & Side
http://djspinz.co.uk/front.jpghttp://djspinz.co.uk/back.jpghttp://djspinz.co.uk/side.jpg

35mm lens side (Projects image on this side) & HV20 side (Hv20 films this side)
http://djspinz.co.uk/35mmside.jpghttp://djspinz.co.uk/hv20side.jpg

Control Box
http://djspinz.co.uk/control.jpghttp://djspinz.co.uk/openbox.jpg

This is the adapter made form the tutorial, the only addition is 1 Multi Coated uv filter behind the focusing screen and 1 in front to protect from dirt/dust as they are very delicate. It is important to use Multi Coated uv filters as non Multi Coated can cuase reflections within the adapter.

Feel free to ask questions.

:hv20-smilie77:

Worley

2007 June 21st, 07:27

First, can we have a side-on view?

Second, how do you know when the focussiing is vibrating at the right speed?

Thank you.

mik

2007 June 21st, 07:49

nice contraption dude :hv20-smilie70:

mik

2007 June 21st, 07:50

about the focusing screen noise: it works without moving parts too, just the noise will be static and some don't like that.
it's not a required speed of rotation or vibration, just enough not to see static noise and not to make mechanical noise to be picked up by the mic.

ForwardLooker

2007 June 21st, 07:52

Hey Worley,

I've added a side pic above for ya.

There isnt really a particular speed for the vibrating, I usually keep mine on quite a low vibration unless i get abit of dust on it while filming then i might turn it up to eliminate any signs of it.

The vibration is needed so when you pan around the focusing screen isn't apparent. If you look at static adapter footage when there is alot of panning etc you may notice the grain of the focusing screen.

ForwardLooker

2007 June 21st, 08:01

nice contraption dude :hv20-smilie70:

Thanks mik :hv20-smilie70:

Worley

2007 June 21st, 08:52

Ah, now it's all making sense, this vibrating. I wondered what it was all about.

So I guess you could make a focussing screen out of tracing paper... Interesting.

ForwardLooker, turn that motor on full and let's see some real wobble!

mik

2007 June 21st, 09:32

no way it would work with paper
get a slr focusing screen, that's the best thing you can use

Worley

2007 June 21st, 09:45

I say tracing paper because it's not quite transparent, but you can still see through it. I also base this on the photos of the static adapter posted elsewhere on the forum...

Don't worry, I have my EE-S focussing screen waiting for its holder. Any day now, any day... All my bits are just itching to be screwed together.

spiffyman

2007 June 21st, 10:43

So if I understood correctly, the vibration is to keep any dust on the focusing screen from showing up in the video?

I have my dad's old Nikkormat 35mm along with a standard and telephoto lens. Would these lenses be suitable for a project like this? (I can dig them out and get some specs if needed). Besides that I just need to buy the kit on the web site you posted and screw it all together?

I'm assuming you use the manual focus on the HV20 or do you use the focus on the 35mm lens?

Thanks for all your help!

Worley

2007 June 21st, 11:21

I think you need to focus the HV20 on the adapter's focussing screen, and use the focus control on the Nikon/Canon/Whatever lenses.

tkmslee

2007 June 21st, 11:44

ForwardLooker

2007 June 22nd, 03:56

What are you guys using to screw it onto the camera? Most macro lenses don't have a way to attach it to the tubes. I am going crazy trying to get mine all nicely mounted, and still look professional (ie not duct tape jobs).

It depends on what size extension tube you end up getting as there are 2 floating around. 1 has a inner diameter of 54.4mm and the other 55.3mm, If you get the 1 with with 55.3mm then the thread is 58mm and you can just buy a stepping ring that is 43mm > 58mm.
If you end up with the 54.4mm there isnt a confirmed thread size for this but I was told its more than likely a 55mm. so i'm waitting for a stepping ring at the moment (43mm>55mm) and I will let everyone know if that is correct.
As I have the the tube with 54.4mm innner diameter I originaly connected this adaptor using , 43mm > 52mm step ring, 52mm coupler and a nikon br3 but I found that I couldnt focus the hv20 after zooming in on the focusing screen.

Nikon Br-3
http://i24.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/a5/cf/0f9c_12_s.JPG
http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/a5/cf/0ffb_12_s.JPG

ForwardLooker

2007 June 22nd, 06:31

Heres some test test footage, its not very interesting but it does show the quality you can acheive. I also forgot to turn on my vibration and i didnt clean my lens so u can see the effects of non vibration. i was holding the adapter up to the hv20 so that was my main concern. As soon as I can mount the adapter properly i will post somthin worth watching.

http://hv20.info/yopu/35mmtester.wmv

daniel schaumberger

2007 June 22nd, 18:49

I made a video tutorial about the basic principle and building a vibrating dof adapter. But after I posted here the link to my homepage for the free download it was removed automatically.
Why?

ForwardLooker

2007 June 22nd, 19:13

Hi Daniel,

I'm not sure why it was deleted?!? try posting it again.

daniel schaumberger

2007 June 22nd, 19:19

Here it is again:
http://www.dj-hosi.de/bilder/bilder/diy_35dof_video.mov

Hope this time the link wont be deleted.

ForwardLooker

2007 June 22nd, 19:26

Great video tutorial Daniel!! I think alot of people will benefit from watching it.:hv20-smilie77:

daniel schaumberger

2007 June 22nd, 19:33

Thanks,

I was also searching 2 years ago for such a tutorial but I had to read thousands of posts about dof-adapters in different forums to get the information building myself a dof-adapter.

Now I want to give a little bit back to this huge community that helped me alot.

have fun
Daniel

Mal

2007 June 22nd, 19:42

But after I posted here the link to my homepage for the free download it was removed automatically.
Why?

Why? Because it was flagged as SPAM.
We've implemented a SPAM detection system that uses a 3rd party service, and your posts was one that that system didn't like.
I've only just seen it in the moderated queue...sorry about that.

I guess it's superfluous to "approve" it now, since you've successfully posted the link here, right?

Many thanks for the tutorial, by the way!

ForwardLooker

2007 June 23rd, 08:27

After watching Daniels great tutorial video he has just pointed out the obvious to me for mounting my adapter to the hv20! As my extension tube has a inner diameter of 54.4mm it has an unknown thread size.

Originally like this
http://djspinz.co.uk/back.jpg

Now I will stick the rear uv filter in reverse so no I have a standard 49mm thread!!! woohoo thanks Daniel.

Haveing the focusing screen literally 1-2cm away from the focusing screen is a really good thing cus you can avoid hot spoting where the image is bright in the middle and darker at the edges and vignetting.
Plus my adapter is now 6.5cm! long which makes it extremely compact and light.

daniel schaumberger

2007 June 26th, 07:02

To build your own Dof adapter, these are the parts that you will need:
Here are some acatual prices from ebay that Ive found.

2x 10,- (Macro-extension tubes)
2x 6,- (55mm UV-Filter HMC Multicoated)
1x 40,- (Canon Ee-A screen)
1x 60,- (VH-57 + new black mamba motor)
1x 1,- (coiled phonecable)
1x 8,- (Nikon to Canon EOS adapter)

Parts from ebay without shipping: USD 141,-

For lens try a 50mm Nikon 1:1.4 (ebay approx. USD 200,-)
For beginning you can also try a 50mm 1:1.8 (ebay approx. USD 50-100,-)

The complete thread incl. links to the parts you can find here:
http://www.pana3ccduser.com/showthread.php?t=16603
(I hope thats okay if Im posting to other forums)

Good luck
and have fun
Daniel

mik

2007 June 26th, 07:56

you are everywhere on this forum selling your adapter.
this is a bit too much.

Worley

2007 June 26th, 11:30

To be fair, Daniel has posted several times (I'll do some housekeeping to keep the posts together) but he's not selling an adapter. The only thing he sells is a vibrating ground glass holder (and the motor, should you wish to purchase one from him).

Daniel is really just sharing his expert knowledge on how to make an adapter. Without help from him and ForwardLooker I would have found the task impossible.

I've just completed my adapter and will post some footage asap.

Worley

2007 June 26th, 11:50

Relevant threads are now merged, and duplicate links removed.

--------------------------

To add to Daniel's information, here's what I used:

1 x Nikon macro extension tubes (eBay, £10)
1 x Canon Ee-S focussing screen (eBay, £20)
1 x 43 mm to 58 mm step up ring (eBay £5)
1 x Nikon 50 mm F2.0 lens (eBay £67)
1 x gg-holder + motor (Daniel, £48)
Old microphone cable
PVA glue
1 x Soldering Set (www.conrad.com, £7)
1 x Potentiometer (conrad, £3)
1 x box (Maplin £2)
1 x switch (Maplin (£1)
1 x battery holder (Maplin, £0.50)

Practise soldring if you're no good or have never done it before! You'll also need a drill (5 mm) to drill holes in plastic and metal.

Focussing screen must be 45 mm from the SLR camera lens, and about 10mm from the HV20 lens.

If you've never done this type of thing before (i.e, if you're really cack handed at anything requiring fine control of power tools) then TAKE YOUR TIME and be VERY PATIENT! Don't lose your cool. The waiting will pay off!

I used a dab of PVA glue in each corner to affix the focussing screen to the gg-holder, and more glue to hold the power cable in place. I am not adept enough to use silicon or hot glue. And being water-based, PVA is easy to clean if you don't get it in the right place or use too much.

I'm crap at soldering so had to buy an extra battery holder as I melted the terminals! One of the terminals fell of my power switch, again because I was a little over-zealous with the soldering iron.

The drilling was not a problem, thankfully, so I have the right number of holes, in the right places, and of the correct diameter. But having a variable speed drill would have made the task a lot easier.

If you decide to do it, Good Luck.

ForwardLooker

2007 June 26th, 20:01

you are everywhere on this forum selling your adapter.
this is a bit too much.

yeh i think thats being abit harsh, I started this thread as i rate Daniels knowledge and craftsmanship very highly, he is a wiz with DIY stuff.
I knew nothing about 35mm adapters then I came accross daniels site and his tutorials, and was amazed on how professional it all looked.
Daniel always responded when I emailed him and I still contact him now when I have an issue.

Thanks to worley too for adding his list of parts, cost and where he got em from.

:hv20-smilie03:

XFR

2007 June 26th, 22:26

I have a little noob question... what kind of ring do I need to attach it to the HV20 when using EOS extension tubes? Is it also a 43mm -> 58mm step-up ring just like the Nikon tubes, or does it have a different diameter? Nikon to EOS adapter suggest there is a difference, or is this only needed for the 50mm lens at the end (when using a Nikon lens on EOS extension tubes I suppose)?

Worley

2007 June 27th, 02:32

I really don't know the answer, but I would guess (judging from the info in Daniel's pdf tutorial) that the dimensions are the same on the Canon and Nikon tubes - 58mm - but the bayonet fixing at either end is different.

But not being a photographer, I can't say that with any certainty.

I went with Nikon because there appeared to be more lenses available on ebay.

XFR

2007 June 27th, 07:38

That's what I thought too, but I'm a bit confused now. Because in the video tutorial you glue a UV filter at the end, which makes it a 55mm threading according to the video. Well I ordered a 43->58 as well as a 43-55 step-up ring. Hope it works ;)

xcgeek

2007 June 27th, 10:55

This looks exciting, I love DIY projects. I've been pricing out all the various pieces and had a question about the lens adapter. I have sets of both EOS and Canon FD lenses, and I've read on other forums the FD are better because you have manual exposure control, etc. So I need an adapter from EOS to FD, but there seems to be two types, ones with a glass element (some cheap and crappy and some very expensive) and ones without glass. I'm not sure I understand exactly what needs to happen between the lens and the Focusing screen as it's been mentioned that there is an optimal distance, but any help clarifying here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

ForwardLooker

2007 June 27th, 17:31

I can confirm that the nikon extension tube with an inner diameter of 54.4mm dos not have a 55mm thread!

XFR

2007 June 27th, 18:29

So I found out the Canon EOS extension tubes have 60mm threads. Since you're gluing the 55mm uv filters to it, I need a 43mm->55mm step-up ring :)

Norbert

2007 June 29th, 18:44

Who manufactures those macro extension tubes anyway? I can't find them anywhere here in sweden.
And another thing, why glue a UV filter onto the back of the tube when you can simply connect a Nikon BR-3 (to the Nikon tubes of course) that already has standard threads? Doesn't Canon have anything that's equal to Nikon's BR-3?

ForwardLooker

2007 June 29th, 18:50

Who manufactures those macro extension tubes anyway? I can't find them anywhere here in sweden.
And another thing, why glue a UV filter onto the back of the tube when you can simply connect a Nikon BR-3 that already has standard threads?

I had a nikon Br-3 connected originally and the hv20 just wouldnt focus on the focusing screen after zooming in on it. so the uv filter method brings it alot closer and gives the extension tube a common thread.

Norbert

2007 June 29th, 19:06

It sounds odd that only one or two centimeters more would make the camera unable to focus on the screen. Usually cameras find it more difficult to focus the closer you get. :P
Did you try taking extension ring #1 off the adapter and connecting the Nikon BR-3 to extension ring #3 instead? That could bring the lens closer to the screen and you wouldn't need the UV filter.

ForwardLooker

2007 June 29th, 19:12

well u have to remmember that you are zoomed in and its telephoto so that would make it harder for the camera to focus on sumthin 4cm away from the lens. when the hv20 is zoomed all the way out u can focus on sumthin 1cm away as it has macro.

Norbert

2007 June 29th, 19:45

I see, I thought you had to zoom in slightly even with the UV filter.
Did you try to take away ring #1 on the tube when you used the BR-3 though?

Worley

2007 June 30th, 02:08

Nortbert, I love Sweden. I had a penpal there when I was a teenager and we used to visit each other every year.

The extension tubes are used in macro photography. They are readily available on eBay. Just search for 'extension tube'.

ForwardLooker

2007 June 30th, 07:20

I see, I thought you had to zoom in slightly even with the UV filter.
Did you try to take away ring #1 on the tube when you used the BR-3 though?

I need ring no1 to house 1 of my uv filters to protect the focusing screen.

Yeh you do have to zoom in but only a tiny bit as its only around 1 - 1.5cm from the lens.

the Br-3 is about 2cm deep then you have a 43mm > 52mm step up ring and 52mm coupler as well.

my hv20 just wouldnt focus on the focusing screen at that distance which i did state earlier in this thread. trust me if i could use the br-3 i would.

Norbert

2007 June 30th, 18:25

Nortbert, I love Sweden.It's alright, the prices here are a bit too high though. :)

I need ring no1 to house 1 of my uv filters to protect the focusing screen.Ah, I didn't think of that.
Maybe it's possible to focus with the BR-3 if you have an achromat? I'll look into that. I just want to minimize the glueing. :P

ForwardLooker

2007 June 30th, 18:41

Ah, I didn't think of that.
Maybe it's possible to focus with the BR-3 if you have an achromat? I'll look into that. I just want to minimize the glueing. :P

It should work with a achromat.

ForwardLooker

2007 July 1st, 07:24

My adapeter setup is complete now and I will be posting some test footage and pics of my setup shortly.

1 TIP! when you are setting up your adapter and working out how much you have to zoom in on the focusing screen do it thru your editing software first (edius, premier, avid etc).
I noticed on the hv20 lcd (I did experience this with the pany gs400 to) it dosent show the whole picture. it may appear like the gg-holder is out of frame but sometimes it isnt tho it may appear so.

Worley

2007 July 1st, 07:40

I look forward to the clips you'll post...

ForwardLooker

2007 July 1st, 12:18

The setup:
http://hv20.info/yopu/front.jpg
http://hv20.info/yopu/rear.jpg

Ok heres the first proper bit of test footage that i'm happy with. Just some shots of some kit in my studio. No colour correction.

It was filmed with no natural light with a 500w lamp.

I used a Nikon 50mm f1.4 lens, some of the shots were done with a 52mm thread macro set which are very good for real close ups.

http://foxfoto.eu/auctions/zm52.jpg

screen grab:
http://hv20.info/yopu/micsample.jpg

footage:
http://hv20.info/yopu/studio_montage.wmv

Norbert

2007 July 1st, 16:32

Looking pretty sweet for a home made adapter! Though I noticed some barrel distortion, maybe an achromat would do good. ;)

ForwardLooker

2007 July 2nd, 06:05

Looking pretty sweet for a home made adapter! Though I noticed some barrel distortion, maybe an achromat would do good. ;)

thanks Norbert, yeh I noticed that too but i'm not sure that an achromat would help as I'm only around 1-1.5cm away from the focusing screen as it is.
As far as i'm aware achromats are used magnify onto the focusing screen. the refining never stops..:hv20-smilie03:

Norbert

2007 July 2nd, 08:26

Maybe a plano convex lens between the camera and GG with the curved side against the GG would get rid of the distortion. I had one in my previous adapter with the plano side against the GG and that caused some barrel distortion on it's own. Turning it around must have the opposite effect?

Anx

2007 July 2nd, 13:00

Hey ForwardLooker, your video looks fantastic, and now I need a DOF adapter badly! :)

Can you provide links for the sources of the parts you used? My knowledge if 35mm accessories is about 0, and I would like to avoid buying the wrong stuff as much as possible - and since you've already done it for the HV20, you know exactly what it needs...

Also, have you considered getting a follow focus to use with your setup? I've been looking at a couple, but not surprisingly the best bang for the buck looks like this one:

http://www.jetsetmodels.info/focus.htm

Thanks for any help you can give me, and your footage looks great - nice job!

ForwardLooker

2007 July 2nd, 15:06

1 x Nikon macro extension tubes (eBay, £10)
1 x Canon Ee-S focussing screen (eBay, £20)
1 x 43 mm to 49 mm step up ring (eBay £5)
1 x Nikon 50 mm F2.0 lens (eBay £67)
1 x gg-holder + motor (Daniel, £48)
2 x custom uv filter holder for 49mm multicoated uv filter (Daniel, £10.10)
2 x 49mm hoya multicoated uv filters (ebay, £11)
Old microphone cable
PVA glue or bathroom sealant
1 x Soldering Set (www.conrad.com, £7)
1 x Potentiometer (conrad, £3)
1 x box (Maplin £2)
1 x switch (Maplin (£1)
1 x battery holder (Maplin, £0.50)

I would also suggest getting a 35mm lens with a f number of 1.4 or 1.8 eg Nikon 50mm f1.4

this my actual lens:
http://www.shueido.com/ebay-img/used-11-30-06/028/3.jpg

Thanks for the compliment Anx,

Worley did a great job of listing the parts so I quoted his list as its pretty much identical to mine but I also added and changed some info in there.

I would love a follow focus setup but the only thing stopping me is the fact that you have to have a railling system and i dont want one. I'm trying to keep my setup as compact as possible really.

:hv20-smilie03:

Worley

2007 July 2nd, 15:16

ebay is filled with Nikon lenses. Try to get the fasted you can (anything with an f value less than 2 should be fine).

Anx

2007 July 2nd, 17:03

Ok, let me know if these look correct:

Nikon macro extension tube ($15.95):
Is this the best choice? I would have preferred to get something from B&H, but couldn't find something comparable...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Macro-extension-tube-ring-set-for-Nikon-F-D70-D100-D50_W0QQitemZ110058436355QQihZ001QQcategoryZ30059Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Canon Ee-S focus screen ($34.95):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/402221-REG/Canon_0830B001_Ee_S_Super_Precision_Focusing.html

43mm to 49mm setup ($6.95):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/98809-REG/General_Brand_43_49_43mm_49mm_Step_Up_Ring_Lens.ht ml

Nikon 50mm F2.0 lens (either $114.95 or $284.95):
Would either of these work, and which would be better:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/97413-USA/Nikon_1902_Normal_AF_Nikkor_50mm.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/247091-USA/Nikon_2137_Normal_AF_Nikkor_50mm.html

49mm hoya multicoated uv filters (2x $17.95):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/23728-REG/Hoya_493033_49mm_Haze_UV_0_HMC_.html

Lens support ($64.95):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/126662-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_3420_3420_Telephoto_Lens_Support.h tml

And I'm buying everything I can from Daniel :) Does his VH-57X kit include everything I need from him?
http://www.jetsetmodels.info/vibrating.htm

Ideally this will help someone else out, since everything is sourced from places you can get it new, except for the macro tubes... The wires and other misc small things I'll just pick up at Radio Shack. Am I missing anything, or are there some better components to get?

Worley

2007 July 3rd, 02:35

The lenses you have selected are auto focus. I don't know if that makes a difference to the way they behave. I mean, I'm sure you can manually focus them - the auto focus part won't work in the adapter. If they do work, I'd be tempted by the 1:1.4 one.

(Sad, I know, but in my dreams last night I was getting to grips with lenses and f values. My dreams taught me a lot, despite the mathematics they presented to me).

Everything else looks fine.

As far as the parts from Daniel are concerned, I ordered the VH-54 gg-holder from him. Ensure that you measure the internal diameter of the extension tubes accurately, otherwise you may end up with the wrong gg-holder. Daniel was very helpful when I ordered from him. I also bought the motor from him, and he had very kindly already glued it to the gg-holder.

Honestly, the hardest part is finding the components. But once yo have them, the adapter is relatively easy to assemble.

But words of advice...

1. Practice soldering if you've not done it before, or if you're a little rusty! It will pay off when working with those delicate wires on the motor, and the other circuitry

2. Take your time. Do not rush. Really, be methodical, and keep calm.

3. Assemble the tubes, attach them to the HV20, and mark the tubes so that you can correctly align the gg-holder, and drill the hole for the (phone) cable in the right spot. Careful not to drill the hole close to the thread!

If you don't align the gg-holder correctly, the screen with be at an angle and you'll have to zoom in too much, or crop the video in post.

I'm about to embark upon my 2nd project, and this time I'm going to get a better lens.

ForwardLooker

2007 July 3rd, 05:45

I wouldnt reccomend an auto focus lens as they have gears in them which will have resistance when you are trying to focus smoothly. plus the build quality of the newer lenses are not as good, theyre more plastic these days.

Norbert

2007 July 3rd, 07:55

And I'm buying everything I can from Daniel :) Does his VH-57X kit include everything I need from him?
http://www.jetsetmodels.info/vibrating.htmAbout the VH-57X kit it says "Vibrating GG-Unit for the cheap Canon EOS extension tubes". I don't know but it sounds like it wouldn't fit the Nikon tubes. Or are the tubes the same apart from the lens mount?

ForwardLooker

2007 July 3rd, 08:03

you are right Norbert,

there are two nikon tubes about 1 have an inner diameter of 54.4mm and the other 55.3mm. if you can Anx contact the seller and check as you will need the right size gg-holder. the canon tube is 57mm.

tkmslee

2007 July 3rd, 11:39

Where did you get the little monitor and its mount? It's perfect for what I want.

ForwardLooker

2007 July 3rd, 14:21

Where did you get the little monitor and its mount? It's perfect for what I want.

Hi tkmslee, the monitor is actually a PMP used in preview mode. I bought it in ebay for £100 including delivery. It was bundled with loads of stuff:

http://www.tecyo.co.uk/MP4/images/mim8.jpg

# AVI converting software
# earphones
# Portable flat speakers housed in player case with shoulder strap
# Protective player glove with straps
# Scart to phono plug
# Anti slip mat
# USB cable
# Car charger
# Mains charger
# AV cable
# 1GB SD/MCC card

It has a samsung 16million pixels screen so you get a crisp picture. 1 word of warning tho is that preview mode is in 4:3(3.5") not 16:9(4") (which is what i wanted) but it really isnt that bad at all the picture is just a little squashed. You still get a 3.5" preview the right way up, cant complain. I have emailed them to find out if there is a you can preview in 16:9 and still waiting for a response...

Manufacturer website: http://www.tecyo.co.uk/MP4/miM8_DIVX-PLAYER.html

The great thing is when you are out and about you get to watch back any projects youve made or are working on! and the picture quality is reaaaally good.

The main mount is one of these:
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/5449/shoemountvb3.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170108077145

I bought a round quick release plate so whatever you mount on it will be able to be mounted at any angle.

very similar to this one and i took the mount screw out of the quick plate:
http://www.adorama.com/images/Product/GTQRP500.JPG

The monitor is held in an old ipod case with an area as big as the screen cut out. it has a plastic clip on the back which I glued to the quick release plate.

Anx

2007 July 3rd, 17:38

That was what I was afraid of, and I really appreciate your help in identifying the right lens for the project... So the pure manual focus len's I've found are in the more pricey range, such as this one for $299.95 - granted it looks like a good lens, so is this more along the right lines:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/36977-GREY/Nikon_1433_Normal_50mm_f_1_4_AIS.html

I'm also surprised I can't find those macro extension tubes seemingly anywhere except on ebay - is the another source (in the US) for them?

I'm fairly adept at soldering, so I'm not too concerned with it, but sourcing the right parts is key for me also (especially considering that my knowledge of len's is minimal). One thing that concerns me is that the 'cheap asian extension tube' he references:

http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/tube_eos.jpg

looks really similar to the ebay item I listed above... On the bright side, hopefully anyone who wants to build on of these after me will know EXACTLY where they can go to buy the parts (they will obviously be paying a bit more to get new parts)... :) Anyone have any suggestions on where to get the right extension tube new?

Ok, so it looks like the VH-57X is not what I want, but instead either the VH-54 or 55 plus a the pancake motor ($14).

Norbert

2007 July 3rd, 18:23

Anx: If you find a place where you can buy the extension tubes, then let us know. I've been looking for them everywhere but I can't even seem to find out who manufactures them. As I don't live in the US I want to explore all possible options before I go ebay.

XFR

2007 July 3rd, 19:10

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/36977-GREY/Nikon_1433_Normal_50mm_f_1_4_AIS.html

I bought that exact lens a few days ago on ebay for $220 including shipment (USA to Netherlands)
I actually ordered a lot of stuff on ebay to build my own adapter, about a week ago, and already received some stuff from all over the world :hv20-smilie03:
I paid about $37 (€25) for 2 sets of new Canon EOS extension tubes including shipment (Hong Kong -> Netherlands)

Here's also a nice site which explains something about the different Nikon lens models:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/nikortek.htm

Worley

2007 July 4th, 02:20

You don't need the Asian extension tube. For may adapter, I bought two sets of Nikon macro tubes, but required just one.

I am embarking upon my second adapter, and I'll post full details as soon as it's ready. Last night I won a Nikon lens (f=1.4) from Germany for €77/£52 including postage. Ebay is swarming with lenses like this. Just red the description carefully to make sure the lens is not scratched and is in good condition.

www.conrad.com is the place for unusual electronics such as the 25 ohm rheostat. It costs about €5. Conrad is based in Germany.

vibrations

2007 July 4th, 08:02

hi forwardlooker

in your parts post you talk about
'2 x custom uv filter holder for 49mm multicoated uv filter (Daniel, £10.10)'
how did these fit into the master plan?

uFx

2007 July 4th, 08:18

Norbert

2007 July 4th, 10:58

Wider angle usually means more vignetting, but sure, you can use all sorts of lenses with the right mount.

ForwardLooker

2007 July 4th, 11:57

hi forwardlooker

in your parts post you talk about
'2 x custom uv filter holder for 49mm multicoated uv filter (Daniel, £10.10)'
how did these fit into the master plan?

Hi vibrations, the holders are for holding the uv filters. 1 filter goes infornt of the focusing screen and 1 goes behind. they are for protection.
the rear uv filter also doubles up as a mount to the hv20 as the extension tube I have doesnt have a common thread.

ForwardLooker

2007 July 4th, 12:17

I was wondering: everyone is using these adapters with 50mm 1.4/1.8 lenses. But is it possible to use other lenses like wide angles on a 35 mm adapter? I've got several Canon/Tokina lenses and I like to use them for video :)

hi ufx, do you meen putting a wideangle lenses straight on the adapter, on a 35mm lens or a wideangle lens on the 35mm lens?

I use a 28mm f2.8 wideangle as well.

uFx

2007 July 4th, 14:24

hi ufx, do you meen putting a wideangle lenses straight on the adapter, on a 35mm lens or a wideangle lens on the 35mm lens?

I use a 28mm f2.8 wideangle as well.

Great! I've got a Tokina 12-24mm wideangle. Now I can start ordering the parts for the home-made 35mm adapter :hv20-smilie77:

vibrations

2007 July 4th, 14:42

the holders are for holding the uv filters. 1 filter goes infornt of the focusing screen and 1 goes behind. they are for protection.
the rear uv filter also doubles up as a mount to the hv20 as the extension tube I have doesnt have a common thread.
this is the same as in daniel's video - though he uses a larger diameter tube and two 52mm hoyas
i take it the 49mm filters were too small to fill the nikon tube you used and daniel made you some kind of shim to make them fit snugly?
perhaps you could post a photo of the 'non-35mm-lens' end of your adapter so i can see how you put it together...
much prefer your compact design to daniels' longer tube version described in his video - and was impressed with the quality of the footage you posted!

ForwardLooker

2007 July 5th, 19:19

this is the same as in daniel's video - though he uses a larger diameter tube and two 52mm hoyas
i take it the 49mm filters were too small to fill the nikon tube you used and daniel made you some kind of shim to make them fit snugly?
perhaps you could post a photo of the 'non-35mm-lens' end of your adapter so i can see how you put it together...
much prefer your compact design to daniels' longer tube version described in his video - and was impressed with the quality of the footage you posted!

Thanks vibrations,

Daniel uses a canon extension tube so both his tutorials (pdf/video) are based around that spec, which are a bigger thread size.

Daniel suggested the sizes to me (49mm uv filter) and then made the holders.
I originally got the uv filters just purely for protection then when I couldnt use the br-3 to mount my adapter I was going to ask daniel for some advice on how best to mount and by coinsedence he made the video tutorial which answered my question.

I will post the pics you want when i have the time....

:hv20-smilie03:

daniel schaumberger

2007 July 6th, 02:14

Finally I got my HV20 and now I can do some tests :-)

Heres what I found out.

1. If you build your DIY35 dof adapter with only one tube and without achromat you can focus on the screen but you will see some barrel distortion in your footage.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1305/1tubeix6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot at 2007-07-05

2. To correct this you have to use 2 Canon EOS extension tubes and an achromat. The exact size and focal length I dont know yet - I have to experiment to get the best image quality.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/5029/2tubesup4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot at 2007-07-05

3. Also the CMOS sensor of the camera is not centered well with the 43mm threading. I did the same with my 10years old sony cam it was perfectly centered. Thats a shame canon! You could do it better next time!

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9916/notcenteredwellhb6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot at 2007-07-05

When I have all details I will release a quick tutorial update for the HV20 and needed parts. Maybe also a HV20 kit with rails.

best regards
Daniel

ForwardLooker

2007 July 6th, 04:28

Hi Daniel, thanks for that info. I also noticed that the censor wasn't centered well and found that abit weird:hv20-smilie50:

ForwardLooker

2007 July 6th, 06:36

Daniel, where you getting any focusing issues with the 2x extention tube setup?

vibrations

2007 July 6th, 06:38

daniel, any hints on places to get a good cheap achromat? (ideally, one that would fit inside the chinese canon macro tube...)

thanks for your cool barrel distortion photos - illustrates the issue nicely

daniel schaumberger

2007 July 6th, 08:30

to forwardlooker:
when I use both extension tubes (full length) then barrel distortion is away but I cant zoom in to fill the 36x24 frame and also no focus possible.

When shortening the extension tube a bit then you can focus but barrel distortion is slightly visible. By using only one tube barrel distortion is visible like in the above pics. Ive done several tests with different lengths and I dont like the quality. At the moment it looks like the only way to do it with one tube and good image-quality is to use an achromat.

to vibrations:
If you live in the states search here:
www.surplusshed.com
They have very cheap achromats also with antireflective coating.
If you are from europe then ebay.

best regards
Daniel

Norbert

2007 July 6th, 08:37

When I have all details I will release a quick tutorial update for the HV20 and needed parts. Maybe also a HV20 kit with rails.That sounds fantastic, I will probably be the first in line! :D

Norbert

2007 July 6th, 08:40

to forwardlooker:
when I use both extension tubes (full length) then barrel distortion is away but I cant zoom in to fill the 36x24 frame and also no focus possible.What happens if you use an achromat when you use both tubes?

Worley

2007 July 6th, 10:34

At the moment it looks like the only way to do it with one tube and good image-quality is to use an achromat.

But there is very little room for an achromat, at least in my set-up. The HV20 is no more than 2cm from the focussing screen. So how can you fit an achromat in such a small space?

Worley

ForwardLooker

2007 July 6th, 10:57

vibrations

2007 July 6th, 12:14

brevis use an achromat (and lots of lovely carbon fibre)
you can buy the achromat seperately
http://www.cinevate.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=33
US$224.10

here's a pic of the hv20 with the brevis
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10380/1175240235.jpg
looks like a 72mm tube stepped down to 43mm

would a 43mm 2x diopter macro lens between the hv20 and the 35mm adapter tube help with the 2 extension tube method?

daniel schaumberger

2007 July 6th, 12:59

to Norbert:
When using both extension tubes with the little achromat I have I get a pincushion distortion on the test grid. I think the solution here is using one tube + one tiny achromat.

Ok, I think I found a cheap and compact solution! :hv20-smilie77:
Good and clear picture without visible distortions with only a tiny achromat.
(The vignetting is due to the small achromat I had. Its only 25mm in diameter maybe a 30mm will do the job and the best of all they are much cheaper then those 72mm HD Achromats that you wont need anyway for the HV20 because it has a small lens.)

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/986/31tubeachromatju1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot at 2007-07-06

Heres how my protoype for the HV20 looks like.
Compact size incl. a tiny achromat at the back.
I ordered already a set of different achromats to test them all and to get the best picture quality.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1831/4prototypeyt3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot at 2007-07-06

Now waiting for the ordered achromats I will do some sexy rails especially for the HV20.

best regards
Daniel

Worley

2007 July 6th, 13:33

This is all very exciting. But the barrel distortion doesn't look too bad, and I'm sure I could live with it... Daniel, where can I buy a suitable achromat, and how would I affix it to the adapter (I'll make a guess, but it from you, and it will have all the necessary fixings?! You're a star! :hv20-smilie70:)

Norbert

2007 July 6th, 19:14

Daniel: That's good news! That little achromat seems to be the perfect solution. As long as you are making parts especially for the HV20, could you also do something about the fact that the filter thread isn't centered around the sensor? Like slightly offsetting the achromat and GG or something?

um3k

2007 July 6th, 20:11

As long as you are making parts especially for the HV20, could you also do something about the fact that the filter thread isn't centered around the sensor? Like slightly offsetting the achromat and GG or something?

That wouldn't be a good idea. The optics should all be kept aligned. If they aren't, additional aberrations will be introduced.

Norbert

2007 July 6th, 20:42

That wouldn't be a good idea. The optics should all be kept aligned. If they aren't, additional aberrations will be introduced.Okay, how about just offsetting the camera then?

um3k

2007 July 6th, 22:23

Okay, how about just offsetting the camera then?

When I say optics, I include the optics within the camera.

ForwardLooker

2007 July 7th, 04:48

Norbert

2007 July 7th, 11:46

When I say optics, I include the optics within the camera.So, that means the optics in the camera is centered with the threads and not with the sensor?

vibrations

2007 July 7th, 12:10

i think you need to keep everything aligned - the idea is to make an adapter that looks as good as possible, not skewed or distorted.
and yes, the optics are aligned with the thread. I guess the sensor is only partially used (remember, you can take a 3mp photo with the hv20, but only framegrab at 2mp)

um3k

2007 July 7th, 13:01

So, that means the optics in the camera is centered with the threads and not with the sensor?

Almost certainly. I can't say for sure because I don't have the camera. The way to tell would be to see if the front lens element of the camera is concentric with the filter threads. If it is (which is extremely likely), then the threads are aligned with the optics.

Norbert

2007 July 7th, 13:12

Almost certainly. I can't say for sure because I don't have the camera. The way to tell would be to see if the front lens element of the camera is concentric with the filter threads. If it is (which is extremely likely), then the threads are aligned with the optics.Hmm, so let's say the optics isn't aligned with the sensor, wouldn't that result in bad imagery? I mean, the sensor is not very big so I recon that even a slightly offset lens would have huge effects on the image, but it clearly doesn't.

um3k

2007 July 7th, 14:01

Basically, the sensor crops the image created by the lens. As long as the lens's image circle is large enough to accommodate the offset sensor, there will be no overall change in image quality.

motionpoet

2007 July 7th, 15:30

Love this thread, you guys are cutting edge here!!!
I've been hanging around watching long enough gotta jump in.

Got my hv20 3 weeks ago... love it.

Daniel, when shooting are you in HD mode? if so are you finding it still to be sharp and clear or does it pick up grain from the GG

I've never used a vibration gg before. i thinks its awesome and can't wait to try it all out.

the last Adapter i made was with a old cd case with a spining disk.. i can't wait to get away from that!

I shot a whole movie with it... here is the trailer link

http://brightstarprod.com/Rossvallytrailer2-3.wmv

Worley

2007 July 8th, 02:36

Look at some of the footage posted here, and you'll see that you don't see the grain (but that must, in part, be down to the strength of vibration and quality of focussing screen).

How do you make a spinning disk?

ForwardLooker

2007 July 8th, 05:42

How do you make a spinning disk?

Here you go worley: http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/dof/index.htm

http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/dof/dof2.gif

ForwardLooker

2007 July 8th, 06:03

I just came accross this static adapter pic online and the lens has a focus handle on it which i'm very interested in:

http://www.fortvir.net/gallery/d/881-2/mini35_adapter.jpg

Anyone know where i can get one from? seen only one on ebay and waiting for a response as to wether it fits nikon lenses.

Worley

2007 July 8th, 06:11

I'm going to be trying to make my own focus handle. My starting point will be a Jubilee Clip.

thanks for the spinning disk info. I prefer the vibrating disk.

Norbert

2007 July 8th, 07:54

I tried that spinning disk tutorial but the results were horrible. The vignetting and distorsion was extreme and the image flickered just like yours, motionpoet, because the disk was probably wobbling and/or not spinning fast enough on the cd motor. The bokeh wasn't that nice with a frosted cd either, it just didn't diffuse the light enough. Still this adapter lost a lot of light.
Apart from that, the whole thing was terribly noisy for some reason. It sounded like a miniature chainsaw.

The SGpro and possibly the M2 are the only spinning adapters I have confidence in. They have spent a lot of time and engineering on making them as good as they are.

This vibrating adapter just seems a lot easier to make and get far better results than with a home made spinning one. I have yet to see a good home made spinning adapter. Are there any out there at all?

vibrations

2007 July 8th, 09:08

you can actually use a chopstick and a couple of rubber bands as a focusing handle - the longer the lever the finer the focus!
looks pretty ghetto though

Worley

2007 July 8th, 10:07

How about this for a focussing device. £2.99 (http://www.betterware.co.uk/productdetails.aspx?pid=019100&language=en-GB) - bargain. :hv20-smilie77:

vibrations

2007 July 8th, 10:16

How about this for a focussing device. £2.99 (http://www.betterware.co.uk/productdetails.aspx?pid=019100&language=en-GB) - bargain. :hv20-smilie77:
actually tried one of those! (great minds think alike)
the handle is too heavy and pulls the focus off
seriously, chopsticks work really well - make sure to get the bamboo ones though, they weigh almost nothing

motionpoet

2007 July 8th, 10:54

Norbert,

I Agree with you the Spinning Disk is a pain I don't recommend it.
the disk wobbles during fast movement and it looks like a tommy gun tape to you Camera.

vibrating adapter IS the way to go.

Vibrations - do you have pics of your bamboo focus?

vibrations

2007 July 8th, 11:55

Vibrations - do you have pics of your bamboo focus?

pro kit or what!
bit of string helps too

Worley

2007 July 8th, 12:13

actually tried one of those! (great minds think alike)
the handle is too heavy and pulls the focus off

Thanks for the info. I'll not be buying one of them, in that case. But i may paint some chopsticks black...

chimneybrothers

2007 July 8th, 14:08

Worley

2007 July 8th, 15:05

Chimney, I wondered about this too, so I asked Daniel. More on this in a moment, but first, if you use a static adapter, then you will see any grain or patterning that exists on the focussing screen. This can be very intrusive and will ruin otherwise great footage. Vibrating the focussing screen masks these markings (and helps disguise dust and small scratches).

The patterning/grain/noise - all it what you like - could be removed in post, but this will impact upon the quality of the video to some extent.

Apparently the Canon Ee-D screen can be used in static adapter, but some people say it has a "focussing circle" on it, whereas others say it doesn't. Given the mixed reports, I would rather not take the risk of ordering something that turns out to be no use.

Right, back to Daniel's respone. He tells me that the screen with the least amount of pattern is his DIY wax screen. The tutorial is on his website. I'm going to have a go at making a few of these using various different wax combinations. My slides should arrive tomorrow...

Paraffin Wax is use to make candles, so I'm going to melt down a few different ones to find out what works for me. Votive or Tea Light candles look most promising as they are pure white. I don't know if I'll need bees wax; testing will help me decide.

Good luck!

ForwardLooker

2007 July 8th, 15:25

pro kit or what!
bit of string helps too

That is ghetto :)

ForwardLooker

2007 July 8th, 15:28

Hey, I had just a question about the necessity of the vibrating fuction. Daniel sells static holders as well. So obviously people use them, but how big of a change is it with out the vibrating?

I think i might be hesitant because i have never soldered before.

PS first post but ive been reading for awhile, great forum guys.

chimneybrothers, I would sujest buying a vibrating gg-holder to start with and use it static until you get confident with soldering.

Halsu

2007 July 11th, 06:15

I too am planning on making my own DOF adapter, based on the PDF tutorial on the site.

I will also make a frame for HV20 so that i can set it upside down - this is basically just a modified, readymade aluminium profile box.

http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/setpage.pl?http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?lang=en&dok=166287.htm

I will add a 7" LCD monitor on top of the contraption.

Here's my preliminary blueprints for the box (sorry for the finnish language) - regardless, you should be able to see where i'm heading...

http://eki.pp.fi/temp/Eki/HV20/35mm_adapter/Blueprints/

http://eki.pp.fi/temp/Eki/HV20/35mm_adapter/Blueprints/images/35mm_adapter_v02_small.jpg

Norbert

2007 July 11th, 16:21

chimneybrothers

2007 July 11th, 16:52

thats some real nice construction.

not to side track or anything but im wondering about after having my adapter and lens and such, is wide angle out of the question or does that just mean i need to get a different lens? i dont know anything about photography, therefore i dont know anything about 35mm lenses.
I am a painter/installation artist.

Halsu

2007 July 11th, 16:53

Nice, I have too been thinking about putting it all in a box to make it look more like a film camera. The only thing that worries me is how I'm gonna reach the buttons on the camera to control it.
By the way, what is all that empty space below the camera for?

On my rig, the camera is not really inside the box - only most the adapter and it's electronics are (area between the two panels marked with green outlines is the "box").

The area where the camera is has the sides cut off, so i can reach all controls easily, change battery and tapes etc.

Edit: here's another pic, which maybe shows the thingy a bit better...

http://eki.pp.fi/temp/Eki/HV20/35mm_adapter/Blueprints/images/35mm_adapter_v02_demo.jpg

The camera is attached to the top with (modified) Manfrotto 577 sliding plate holder, so it's easy to remove and move to a tripod.

The empty space below the camera comes from the default size of the box - 145*75*230 mm - it could be reduced by cutting away parts of the aluminum panels, but i will probably leave it as is, and build a custom XLR/Phantom adapter that fits neatly in that extra space.

XFR

2007 July 12th, 16:27

Today I received some of the final parts for my DOF adapter :hv20-smilie84:
Here are a few pics of the 'controller' I made today... I like it! :)

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/schaft/xf/IMG_0107b.jpg

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/schaft/xf/IMG_0106b.jpg

The adapter itself is standing here and waiting till the glue is dry... so tomorrow I will be testing it.
I made a quick sample movie with the focusing screen just randomly placed in the tubes and with a Nikon 35mm f2.8 lens (50mm f1.4 will arrive soon, I hope :()
UV filters and focusing screen have dirt on it, and it's off course not even vibrating, but it looks pretty although it's not representative :)

Sample footage (x264/720p) (http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/schaft/xf/xf_dof_quicktest.avi)

ForwardLooker

2007 July 12th, 17:20

very tidy box XFR!

Halsu

2007 July 12th, 18:03

very tidy box XFR!

Yep, nice work. Better to be, with a transparent box like that ;-)

I couldn't get that x264 clip to open... found the x264 cidec, installed it but still no go.

ForwardLooker

2007 July 12th, 19:05

Yep, nice work. Better to be, with a transparent box like that ;-)

I couldn't get that x264 clip to open... found the x264 cidec, installed it but still no go.

Download and use VLC player.

XFR

2007 July 12th, 20:52

Or get ffdshow (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/FFDShow.htm) :)

Halsu

2007 July 13th, 12:56

Or get ffdshow (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/FFDShow.htm) :)

Works now...

Looks good, no vignetting as far as i can see...

XFR

2007 July 13th, 17:40

I posted some more information, pics and the first footage in this (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1231) thread :)

Box of Chocolates

2007 July 16th, 02:15

Hey, I've been watching these forums for the past weeks and decided to become an active member on these boards.

Anyways, I was mainly interested if any progress has been made on determining the best achromatic lens for the HV20 adapter?

Norbert

2007 July 16th, 08:09

We are all waiting for the new HV20-adapter tutorial. :)

Box of Chocolates

2007 July 17th, 02:24

vibrations

2007 July 17th, 03:26

Could anyone enlighten me as to why one would would want to build an adapter? Thanks!

the shallow depth of field lends itself to a look that is more 'magical' and 'cinematic' than the 'focus to infinity' look of video
it isolates characters in their own space, giving them room to express an inner emotional feeling or drive
focusing out the background gives new life to mundane sets and situations

and adapters are fun to make!
lots of lovely 'well that makes sense now' moments...

Worley

2007 July 17th, 04:39

In low light, I would remove the adapter.

But if I were shooting a film, I'd artificially darken the scene to produce a night-time effect.

But Vibrations is right - they are fun to make. I'm onto my second, and planning a third (seeing as I have a load of spare parts sitting on my shelves).

Halsu

2007 July 17th, 06:21

I must question if you guys think that sacrificing low-light performance and other aspects of the picture fidelity is worth a shallower depth of field. Is DoF that important?

Footage that's shot with a 35mm adapter will always be of poorer technical quality than footage shot without.

The point of using one of these is to get "the look".

Oddly enough, all the artifacts an adaptor has usually contribute positively to this - reduced overall sharpness and contrast, shallower depth of field, even some vignetting become not faults, but part of the look.

And they're fun to make ;-)

I'm currently building my first for HV20, so far all adapter shoots i've done have been made with commercial adapter, namely P+S Technik Mini 35.

Here's some music videos to show the look one can get with the adapters:

http://poetsofthefall.com/videos/

"Lift" and "Carnival of Rust", were shot by me, with Sony HVR-Z1 and P+S Technik Mini35.

"Locking up the Sun", was shot with HDCam and P+S Technik Pro35, by Jean-Noel Mustonen.

I also did some 3D and compositing, in all of these.

ForwardLooker

2007 July 17th, 06:52

Reading this thread, there's definitely a lot of hype about these adapters. However, I must question if you guys think that sacrificing low-light performance and other aspects of the picture fidelity is worth a shallower depth of field. Is DoF that important? Maybe I'm missing some other benefits of one of these adapters. Perhaps not. Could anyone enlighten me as to why one would would want to build an adapter? Thanks!

Hi Box of Chocolates,

If you are questioning wether you need an adapter or not then you probably dont need one (yet):hv20-smilie03:.
I think if your artistic ideas demand depth of field you will want one.
I made an adaptor as I wanted to get the 35mm look as you would see in feature films and music videos. As others have stated already it seperates the character or object in the scene and draws the viewers attention to it/them.

Halsu, great work on those vids very professional!! I really like the Lift video could you possibly tell me what sort of and how much lighting was needed to film that?

tkmslee

2007 July 17th, 09:43

Halsu

2007 July 17th, 12:51

Halsu, great work on those vids very professional!! I really like the Lift video could you possibly tell me what sort of and how much lighting was needed to film that?

Thanks, glad you like it!

The video is all greenscreen, the backgrounds are all 3D / CGI, rendered in LightWave and 3DS MAX.

Here's some "behind the scenes" shots:

http://dmz.pp.fi/potf_lift/

The first one shows the big butterfly diffusor we had on top of the set - all light came through this (i recall it was 7m * 7m). We used the regular 1-4 KW tungsten fresnels that came with the studio, didn't count how many of those there were on the ceiling, let alone how many i actually turned on. Probably it was half a dozen or so. Oh, BTW, i'm the fat dude with blue T-shirt ;-)

Edit: whoops - brain fart! We actually did NOT use Mini35 on lift, it was shot with plain vanilla HVR-Z1 + wide angle lens. The DOF was done in post production, as all the sets were graphics.

Carnival Of Rust otoh WAS shot with an adapter, there were some real sets in it, so we had to work a little differently.

Anx

2007 July 17th, 13:39

I would add that it really isn't just music videos and films - many of the bigger TV shows use DOF to the extreme. I was watching 24 last night, and a good 50% or more of it is shot using DOF tricks.

For me, XFR's video is a great example of why these adapters are cool - he basically just taped playing with a kitten, but because of the shallow depth of field, it just looks cinematic. When it was over, I was trying to figure out what message he was trying to tell me... Then it dawned on me, build your on DOF adapter! :)

um3k

2007 July 17th, 21:00

Heroes goes absolutely nuts with the DOF sometimes--they like to mess around with tilt/shift lenses. The fun! The disorientation!

chimneybrothers

2007 July 17th, 23:15

i just came a cross a lens from my work that i could have for free. i dont know much about lenses so ill give you all the information i can.
Nikon AF Nikkor
70-210mm
1:4-5:6 D
I remember people saying Auto Focus lenses were no good with these adapters, but what do you think. other than that i'll probably settle for a nikon F1.8 on ebay. but since this is in my lap, i was just wondering. cool thanks.

daniel schaumberger

2007 July 18th, 04:09

Hi guys,
I got the ordered achromats for the compact HV20 dof adapter but none of them works like I want because the focal length was too long.
I assume that an achromat with diameter of 30mm and a focal length of 65mm should work fine with one extension tube. I ordered one from USA but I have to wait another 10days for shipping :(

Does someone knows a good source for cheap achromats in europe?

to chimneybrothers:
your 1:4-5:6 lens is too slow and you will get heavy vignetting.
Use only lenses up to f1:2.8 the smaller the number the better but also more expensive.

best regards
Daniel

chimneybrothers

2007 July 18th, 08:27

Daniel: yeah thats what i was affraid of. I've been trying to understand the whole F/stop situation. after a while of reading about it, everything goes in one ear and out the other. ha

I also want to know if a canon lens at F1.8 is equal to that of nikon or if they have dif. regulations between companies. Since i have the canon tube, i assume it could be fine just to buy the canon lens instead of having to get the adapter for nikon. I'm going to be shooting mostly dialouge so from my understanding 1.8 would give me a good focal depth for that. am I right?

daniel schaumberger

2007 July 18th, 13:43

If the canon lens is 1.8 then it will be ok its the same with nikon.
But because its an autofocus lens (I assume) you cant stop down the lens directly - only with a workaround in your SLR camera. With the old Nikon manual focus lenses you have full control. Thats the difference.

Box of Chocolates

2007 July 19th, 05:21

Hey! Thanks for the input everyone! I now understand that one would build an adapter mainly for aesthetic purposes. I am going to be shooting in lowlight situations, so an adapter might not be the best idea at this point. I originally planned to build an adapter so I could get a shallower depth of field and use one of my slr wide angle lenses. Perhaps, I should just get wd-h43 and forgo the shallower depth of field.

Anyways, I was wondering whether one could get a deeper or shallower DoF by using a bellows unit or any apparatus that would allow one to tilt the focusing screen back and forth, rather than the macro extension tubes? I know this is how some photographers get really interesting DoF's.

Another question, has anyone tried both the ee-s and ee-a focusing screens? Is there a noticeable difference between the two besides the impeded light performance with the ee-s focusing screen? Do any of the Nikon screens perform differently?

Sorry if I'm asking too many question. Thanks for all the help!

nmaxfield

2007 July 19th, 12:53

Hopefully I will get my parts today and tomorrow. I can't wait to get home and check the mail.

Has anyone used a MC Zenitar-M 16mm f/2.8 Lens? http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/zenitar_m_fisheye_lens.htm

It's completely manual. I have the canon mount version and have taken some awesome shots with it. I can't wait to test it out. Come on parts. Get here already.

The Canon 50mm 1.8 lens is a fantastic lens. It can be had for around $80 brand new.

nmaxfield

2007 July 19th, 12:55

There are lots of crazy Russian lenses that are very inexpensive and can be converted for not that much more. They are always completely manual.
http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/lenses.htm

I don't work for this company. Just did a search for my Zenitar-M

chimneybrothers

2007 July 19th, 18:17

The Canon 50mm 1.8 lens is a fantastic lens. It can be had for around $80 brand new.

yeah Ive seen these. I'm really excited to get mine. I just have to wait to pay daniel and get his parts now. and everything is a go

Box of Chocolates

2007 July 20th, 16:09

How does one go about mounting the achromat Daniel is selling on his website?

daniel schaumberger

2007 July 20th, 16:23

Hi guys,

I released a new tutorial especially for the HV20.
http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/vh57x_tut.pdf
This time I choosed the VH-57X Ver.2.0 with the interchangeable gg-holder plates. The adapter can of course also be build with the VH-57 Ver.1.1 but then you have to manually adjust the focal flange. I also integrated a small achromat inside the 43-55mm step-up ring to eliminate that barrel distortion. The kit with rails is also on its way - but I have to take a rest now.

to: box of chocolates
Ive cnc-ed some custom made achromat holders that is glued inside the tubes.

Daniel

Box of Chocolates

2007 July 20th, 17:55

Let me be the first (sorta) to say...THANK YOU!!!

chimneybrothers

2007 July 20th, 21:14

wow, daniel is too good to us. what a trooper

PS you mentioned a holder for the achromat. is this something that you are creating that is part of the step up ring, or it will fit inside the step up ring? Im wondering because i need to know if i should buy a step up ring yet or wait for your item. but if its just a small ring that fits inside that'd be great too. and what size achromat?

thanks

daniel schaumberger

2007 July 21st, 05:13

hi chimneybrothers,
yes I integrated the achromat into the step-up ring and this will be part of kit. I want to make the whole setup as compact as possible. If you wish I can also cnc a custom holder for your step-up ring but you have to give me the measures first because they differ from brand to brand. You can search for a achromat 30-40mm diameter / approx. fl=65mm.

Daniel

suta

2007 July 21st, 07:45

and the next: BIG THANKS !! :)

Norbert

2007 July 21st, 10:35

Big thanks from me also!

I recently came across a Nikon extension tube and the seller said the inner diameter was around 56mm so I guess that's the Ø 55.3mm tube. Now I'm wondering, has anyone else built this adapter with the 55.3mm tube? If so, then what uv-filters did you use? Will a 55mm filter fit perfectly in that tube?

daniel schaumberger

2007 July 21st, 11:42

Hi Norbert,

normally for the Nikon tubes a 52mm UV-Filter should fit. It has an outer diameter of 53.9mm.

Simon Hughes

2007 July 21st, 14:26

Jsut curious if anyone can confirm if there's any appreciable increase in DOF using the TL-H43? I.e, moving the camera back and using the extra reach to get essentially the same picture.

I would expect a certain amount of increase simply due to the telephoto (in still photography, this would allow more OOF on background elements due to the narrower plane of focus of the lens), but how much is the question. I have one on order but it's not in yet.

Halsu

2007 July 21st, 15:34

I guess you would also get slightly more DOF even at the exact same camera location and framing if you use full open iris, because you'd use less in-camera zoom (the widest possible f-stop you can get varies depending on the zoom level).

Fletch78

2007 July 23rd, 10:21

First of all a big huge thank you to Daniel for the tutorial! It looks quite easy to assemble.

I have a few questions for Daniel (maybe the others can help, too) that may be of general interest:

1. In step 6, where you explain how to make a standard threading of 55mm with a UV/Skylight filter, you say "Put some coins under the UV-Filter to get the right height". Now I've wondered: how do I know what's the right height? Is it self explanatory or has it to do with the proper focal range needed?
2. On your website, you recommend "enjoyyourcamera.com" for the extension tubes (Makro Zwischenringe). I've found them, but there's no statement there about the inner diameter. Do you know perhaps if they will be suitable without modifications/workarounds?
3. Still on your website, I've read you don't ship to Germany (don't understand why, but you'll have your reasons), but will you sell me your products to Switzerland?
4. As I'd like to use my 55mm Canon FD lens I already got very cheap, I'd need an EOS to FD adapter. Now I've seen on the net that there are those with a small lens and others without it. Which one would I need? And will it affect the focal range to the ground glass in any way, so that this would have to be considered when assembling the adapter?

Sorry for asking all those questions here, but I think some of them might be of general interest, that's why I'm not asking them directly by email (by the way, could I write in German when making the order?).

Many thanks in advance and thanks again for all your support!

unconsenting

2007 July 23rd, 10:39

First of all a big huge thank you to Daniel for the tutorial! It looks quite easy to assemble.

I have a few questions for Daniel (maybe the others can help, too) that may be of general interest:

1. In step 6, where you explain how to make a standard threading of 55mm with a UV/Skylight filter, you say "Put some coins under the UV-Filter to get the right height". Now I've wondered: how do I know what's the right height? Is it self explanatory or has it to do with the proper focal range needed?
2. On your website, you recommend "enjoyyourcamera.com" for the extension tubes (Makro Zwischenringe). I've found them, but there's no statement there about the inner diameter. Do you know perhaps if they will be suitable without modifications/workarounds?
3. Still on your website, I've read you don't ship to Germany (don't understand why, but you'll have your reasons), but will you sell me your products to Switzerland?
4. As I'd like to use my 55mm Canon FD lens I already got very cheap, I'd need an EOS to FD adapter. Now I've seen on the net that there are those with a small lens and others without it. Which one would I need? And will it affect the focal range to the ground glass in any way, so that this would have to be considered when assembling the adapter?

I know 1 and 2:

1) The UV filter should stick out enough so the threads are usable. This is how you will attach it to your camcorder.

2) All EOS tubes are the same size no mod needed.

I too noticed the EOS to FD adapter had some options, and looked expensive. I don't own lenses and will probably be going with the Nikon lenses instead.

Fletch78

2007 July 23rd, 13:47

Thanks for your reply, unconsenting.

I too noticed the EOS to FD adapter had some options, and looked expensive. I don't own lenses and will probably be going with the Nikon lenses instead.

"Problem" is, the Nikon (or Nikkor) lenses are bloody expensive compared to Canon FD lenses (and not that much better, from what I've heard). Those I've seen were almost 5 times as expensive. The EOS to Nikon adapter isn't much cheaper either, but it allows infinity focus without the aid of an additional lens in it. The Canon FD adapter without additional lens (I've seen one for about 40 Euro) disables infinity focus. But then again, I don't know if infinity focus is that necessary when shooting with an adapter (IMHO, if you want infinity focus, you just shoot without the adapter).

Oh, one more thing: I assume the UV/Skylight filter to change the threading to 55mm has to be multicoated as well, right?

Well, let's hear what Daniel has to say! ;)

twoneil

2007 July 23rd, 15:14

Thanks for your reply, unconsenting.

"Problem" is, the Nikon (or Nikkor) lenses are bloody expensive compared to Canon FD lenses (and not that much better, from what I've heard). Those I've seen were almost 5 times as expensive. The EOS to Nikon adapter isn't much cheaper either, but it allows infinity focus without the aid of an additional lens in it. The Canon FD adapter without additional lens (I've seen one for about 40 Euro) disables infinity focus. But then again, I don't know if infinity focus is that necessary when shooting with an adapter (IMHO, if you want infinity focus, you just shoot without the adapter).
;)

Hi all!

I'm using Canon FD, yes FD! on this adapter because it is less expensive, plus there are tons of FD lenses available on eBay.
What I did was glue the last ring to the FD lens, (the ring which you're supposed to connect the EOS camera) I used JB weld, and lots of it!
You could also use the FD-EOS adapter without the optics (glass) instead of gluing.

This is a great alternative, because the FD-EOS adapters with Optics is useless -->this is the proof (http://www.hv20.com/showpost.php?p=21826&postcount=1)
Take off the optics and the image becomes better. --->click here (http://www.hv20.com/showpost.php?p=21857&postcount=4)

You'll have to set the length of the focal flange at about 40mm. With this you'll get the infinity focused properly and maximum available macro.

twoneil

seider

2007 July 24th, 11:09

hey so i have a few questions here, they are (sorry if thay are newb questions, but everyone needs to learn some time, i have read all the 7 pages and looked thought the tutorials, i also tryed to answer some of the questions myself, so if i do get them partially correct could you inform me)

1. how does the 35mm adapter give "that effect" (is it just because you can use get a slimmer/smaller DOF?)

2. do you need to attach a lens to the end of the 35mm adapter?, what kind of lens? (tele or wide angle?) (im almost positive you need one, because i take it that the lens is what gives you more control over the DOF)

3. when useing the 35mm adpter do you have to lock (make all of them manual) all the controls on you camera, if so what would you set them at?

4. how short of a 35 mm adapter could you use for a hv 20?

5. when useing a 35mm adapter is it not good to shoot fast moving subject?

and finially the last one (not, due to edit)
6. could i use my dads lens from his old slr, for the 35mm adapter??

and now finally the last one
7. whats the difference/reason for vibrating or a static 35mm adapters

twoneil

2007 July 24th, 11:58

2. do you need to attach a lens to the end of the 35mm adapter?, what kind of lens? (tele or wide angle?) (im almost positive you need one, because i take it that the lens is what gives you more control over the DOF)

The best ones are lenses that have an F-stop around 2 or even lower. (i.e. 1.8 is good, 1.4 is even better, gives you more shallow dof)

The best lens I could find is a Canon FD, which is 50mm f1.8

I was disappointed with my zoom lens which has an f3.5 because it has a deeper DOF, meaning I can't achieve lots of blur on the background.

seider

2007 July 24th, 12:35

The best ones are lenses that have an F-stop around 2 or even lower. (i.e. 1.8 is good, 1.4 is even better, gives you more shallow dof)

thanks, so i take it that my dads old lens from his slr i could use, and it would be a dencent one decause it has an F-stop of 1.4.

thanks for answering that one question, if anyone else answers my others, it would be greatly apreicated.

Fletch78

2007 July 24th, 14:31

1. how does the 35mm adapter give "that effect" (is it just because you can use get a slimmer/smaller DOF?)

The "effect" and the purpose of all 35mm adapters is to get shallower depth of field. Because of the relatively small image sensor size (be it CCD or CMOS), this can't be achieved the same way as with a film or slr camera. That's when the adapter kicks in with its ground glass system. The ground glass, which is relatively large, takes the job of the image sensor of the videocamera. The camera itself just captures the image appearing on the groundglass. Other influences like light behavior etc. add to that special "look", which is very different from what the camera alone is able to see.

2. do you need to attach a lens to the end of the 35mm adapter?, what kind of lens? (tele or wide angle?) (im almost positive you need one, because i take it that the lens is what gives you more control over the DOF)

Part of that question has already been answered, I think, but: yes, you attach a lens to the end of the adapter. The adapter, like I said, kind of "replaces" the image sensor. Most people work with 55mm lenses, as wider lenses (for example 28 or 35mm) tend to give too much barrel distortion and vignetting.

3. when useing the 35mm adpter do you have to lock (make all of them manual) all the controls on you camera, if so what would you set them at?

What is definetely locked is the focus of the camera. Remember: it only captures the image appearing on the ground glass, therefore you have to manually set the focus to it and then lock it. Shutter speed should be kept low (i.e. 50/60), as higher shutter speeds tend to make the vibration of the ground glass visible. As far as I know, aperture should be kept as open as possible, without overexposing the picture, of course. The rest, the important part that is, will be set on the slr lens, depending on the lighting and how shallow you want depth of field to be.

4. how short of a 35 mm adapter could you use for a hv 20?

I think Daniel optimized the lenght of his adapter for the HV20 to the max. I don't think it could be done any shorter.

5. when useing a 35mm adapter is it not good to shoot fast moving subject?

The only problem I could imagine here is losing the focus, as you usually keep focus on a very specific "layer" (somebody's face, for example). If he moves out of that layer, you have to adjust the focus. If the subject moves in the limits of the layer (let's say to the left and to the right), it should be no problem.

7. whats the difference/reason for vibrating or a static 35mm adapters

The ground glass has a surface "structure". Additionally, there might be some dust on it. When the ground glass is static, the camera will see all of those "imperfections", which will lead to a grainy image. The trick is to keep the ground glass in a vibrating (or oscillating in other adapters) motion, so the grain and dust will be invisible to the camera because of motion blur. The projected image itself is not affected by that.

seider

2007 July 24th, 14:48

WOW... thanks sooo much Fletch

i just wanna clarify one more thing, so if you dont use the virbrating part of the 35mm adapter you if see lots of dust particles, or imperfections of the glass?

does anyone have footage of a vibrating 35mm adapter with the vibrator off?

4. how short of a 35 mm adapter could you use for a hv 20?

I think Daniel optimized the lenght of his adapter for the HV20 to the max. I don't think it could be done any shorter.

http://djspinz.co.uk/back.jpg
Plus my adapter is now 6.5cm! long which makes it extremely compact and light.

so how did he get his adapter to 6.5cm

seider

2007 July 24th, 15:10

sorry for the doulbe post

Fletch78

2007 July 24th, 15:16

(...) so if you dont use the virbrating part of the 35mm adapter you if see lots of dust particles, or imperfections of the glass?

Exactly! Even though the glass itself shouldn't have imperfections, it's more the structure you would see without the vibration. The glass has to have some sort of regular microscopic structure - if it were transparent and perfectly shiny, it would hardly display the image coming from the slr lens. A good example is how some people used to roughen up a plastic cd with sandpaper (the completely transparent "dummy" cds that often are on top of a new cd-r or dvd spindle as a protection) to build their own 35mm adapter.

so how did he get his adapter to 6.5cm

I don't think Daniel's "new" HV20 version is any much longer than that. In his original tutorial, however, you had to use TWO sets of makro extension tubes. Now it's only one, that's also what ForwardLooker did, before Daniel made the new tutorial.

twoneil

2007 July 24th, 15:28

I don't have my HV20 yet, but I've already build my 35mm adapter (Daniel's)
I want to make everything simple and compact, so I won't be putting a lens support for the adapter.

Is the lens support serves only as a precaution??? or is it just fine without it (and just be very careful with it)???

Answer: My adapter is short and light enough, so I don't need a lens support.

seider

2007 July 24th, 15:51

Exactly!
YES im finaly starting to understand some stuff.

I don't think Daniel's "new" HV20 version is any much longer than that. In his original tutorial, however, you had to use TWO sets of makro extension tubes. Now it's only one, that's also what ForwardLooker did, before Daniel made the new tutorial.

so whats the difference of using one markro extension compared to using two?

I want to make everything simple and compact, so I won't be putting a lens support for the adapter.
Is the lens support serves only as a precaution??? or is it just fine without it (and just be very careful with it)???

i dont even have a hv20 or even started to build a 35mm adpater, but i think i may be able to answer your question. The lens support (from what i think i know) just supports the lens so either the threads of your filter or of you camera dont strip (its just taking away the prussure from the connection of you 35mm adapter and you camera.
So depending how large and heavy you adpater is, i would want to use a support (that is why i want to make mine a shorter one :hv20-smilie03:).

please correct me if im wronge, because i jst started learning about these adapters yesterday.

tkmslee

2007 July 24th, 16:13

Hey, I had just a question about the necessity of the vibrating fuction. Daniel sells static holders as well. So obviously people use them, but how big of a change is it with out the vibrating?

I think i might be hesitant because i have never soldered before.

PS first post but ive been reading for awhile, great forum guys.

I shot some scenery the other day with my DIY static adapter. My screen is even scratched a bit. I thought it turned out really well. There are some spots but I have also seen spots on DIY vibrating adapters.

Here is my footage:

http://www.leetj.com/vlog/videos/cascadesprings.mp4

Fletch78

2007 July 24th, 16:28

so whats the difference of using one markro extension compared to using two?

I don't know details, but as far as I know it's got to to with the distance of the ground glass (focusing screen) to the camera and the ability of the camera to focus on it. To get a "good" area of the glass without too much vignetting, you have to zoom in slightly. However, this will make it difficult for the camera to properly get sharp focus on it if it's too close. Different cameras behave differently, so they may need a longer distance (or a macro lens/achromat) between the glass and the camera lens. Apparently, focusing with the HV20 is possible even with a relatively short distance. As Daniel said, he used the achromat only to get less barrel distortion.

It's a bit complicated, I know...! :hv20-smilie03:

By the way, I didn't start to build me own either...but I bought a cheap hot glue pistol today! :hv20-smilie03:

Tomtebo

2007 July 24th, 16:32

I shot some scenery the other day with my DIY static adapter. My screen is even scratched a bit. I thought it turned out really well. There are some spots but I have also seen spots on DIY vibrating adapters.

Here is my footage:

http://www.leetj.com/vlog/videos/cascadesprings.mp4

lovley footage, what lense did you use? f-stop and so on.

tkmslee

2007 July 24th, 16:44

lovley footage, what lense did you use? f-stop and so on.

Thanks! It is a Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens.

twoneil

2007 July 24th, 17:49

As Daniel said, he used the achromat only to get less barrel distortion.

http://www.leetj.com/vlog/videos/cascadesprings.mp4

So the achromat is only to get less barrel distortion, but does it also eliminate chromatic abberation?

Answer: Yes, the achromat reduces barrel distortion. Yes, it slightly eliminates abberation.

I've seen the video and it looks great, but I'm bothered with the color blue shifting a bit.
Are you using an achromat, tkmslee?

tkmslee

2007 July 24th, 17:56

So the achromat is only to get less barrel distortion, but does it also eliminate chromatic abberation?
I've seen the video and it looks great, but I'm bothered with the color blue shifting a bit.

Are you using an achromat, tkmslee?

No I am using a very cheap macro I took off of a wide angle lens. I am buying a higher end HD macro to see if it helps a little.

Fletch78

2007 July 24th, 18:33

So the achromat is only to get less barrel distortion, but does it also eliminate chromatic abberation?
I've seen the video and it looks great, but I'm bothered with the color blue shifting a bit.

An achromat doesn't eliminate chromatic aberration. By the way, an achromat is just a higher quality macro lens to make focusing on close subjects easier. Using a standard macro lens would give more CA than an achromat.

Box of Chocolates

2007 July 24th, 21:40

An achromat doesn't eliminate chromatic aberration. By the way, an achromat is just a higher quality macro lens to make focusing on close subjects easier. Using a standard macro lens would give more CA than an achromat.

I don't think anything truly "eliminates" abberation since no lens is perfect.

seider

2007 July 24th, 22:20

I don't know details, but as far as I know it's got to to with the distance of the ground glass (focusing screen) to the camera and the ability of the camera to focus on it. To get a "good" area of the glass without too much vignetting, you have to zoom in slightly. However, this will make it difficult for the camera to properly get sharp focus on it if it's too close. Different cameras behave differently, so they may need a longer distance (or a macro lens/achromat) between the glass and the camera lens. Apparently, focusing with the HV20 is possible even with a relatively short distance. As Daniel said, he used the achromat only to get less barrel distortion.

the one guy on here (ForwardLooker) made one with only one markro extension for a hv20, but im not sure if he ended up getting vinngetting

I shot some scenery the other day with my DIY static adapter. My screen is even scratched a bit. I thought it turned out really well. There are some spots but I have also seen spots on DIY vibrating adapters.

Here is my footage:

http://www.leetj.com/vlog/videos/cascadesprings.mp4

so this is filmed without using a vibrator? and whats a static adapter? i think i may just make mine without a vibrator.

and one last question, what is a achromat?

Fletch78

2007 July 24th, 22:42

(...) whats a static adapter?

A so called static adapter is an adapter with a non-moving ground glass.

i think i may just make mine without a vibrator.

I don't want to sound harsh, but if you plan to use your adapter seriously, you'd be better off by making a vibrating one, especially when using a HD camera like the HV20. In the end, the vibration part is not that one thing that is expensive or harder to assemble. tkmslee's footage does indeed look very very nice, however you have to be aware that his .mp4 clip is of quite low resolution and compressed for a small filesize. I'm sure the original footage would show lot's of static grain (still no offense, tkmslee, it looks sweet nevertheless!).

and one last question, what is a achromat?

When talking about 35mm adapters, an achromat (achromatic lens) means a higher quality macro lens. Basically a simple macro lens is a single lens, whereas an achromatic lens usually consists of two lenses (a so called "doublet") to reduce chromatic aberrations and barrel distortions.

There's a good explanation on Wikipedia, by the way. Just type in "achromat".

seider

2007 July 25th, 00:16

here is my dads 25y/o lens from his old slr, it would be sweet if i could use it for this 35mm adapter...could i??? (click pics for larger version
170

171

172

Fletch78

2007 July 25th, 00:36

You can use that lens with Daniel's adapter, you'd just have to buy a Minolta MD to Canon EOS adapter (that's the adapter's mount). There are different models, though, and I'm not sure yet which one to go for. There are some with a lens and some magnification of the image, some with no lens but without infinite focus ability, some with no lens WITH infinite focus ability...exactly the same with Canon FD adapters. I hope Daniel can shed some light on this.

That seems to be a fine lens, by the way. As far as I can see it's a 50mm, which should be ok (55mm seems to be a 'standard' with 35mm adapters). And with its minimal f stop of 1.4 you could get very shallow depth of field (not easy to control focus-wise, though).

seider

2007 July 25th, 01:18

And with its minimal f stop of 1.4 you could get very shallow depth of field (not easy to control focus-wise, though).

do you mean its not easy to control focus-wise due to the lens, or do you mean its hard to control focus at a shallow dof?

Fletch78

2007 July 25th, 01:54

(...) or do you mean its hard to control focus at a shallow dof?

Yeah, that's what I mean. At 1.4, DOF will be VERY shallow. I'm not speaking from my own experience, but from what I've heard from others, 1.6 or 1.8 are best. But you can always stop down the iris to a higher f stop.

tkmslee

2007 July 25th, 10:22

seider,

Yes the video I posted was made using an adapter I made without a vibrating gg (Ground Glass). I was going for as-cheap-as-possible. For now (for practicing) it will work, but when I get the cash I will run right out and get either a Redrock or Cinevate adapter which have a rotating gg or vibrating gg. Good luck and let us see what you come up with!

seider

2007 July 25th, 12:50

would this lens work
173

Fletch78

2007 July 25th, 13:59

All manual lenses (as far as I know, autofocus lenses won't work or only after modification) you can get a converter to the EOS mount of the adapter for (Minolta, Canon, Pentax, etc.) will work. Most users use 1.4 or 1.8 lenses, as anything higher (higher f stop number) than 1.8 as the lowest possible f stop apparently results in too much light loss. Some users experienced their 1.2 lenses to be less sharp than their 1.8 lenses from the same brand. And finally, most popular lenses seem to be the 55mm ones. Wider lenses seem to be hit or miss, as they tend to worsen barrel distortion and overall sharpness. "More tele" lenses (100mm) on the other hand, don't seem to be a problem, even though you have to remember that because of the zooming on the ground glass, a 55mm won't be a 55mm anymore when using the adapter (i.e. you lose 'wideness').

twoneil

2007 July 25th, 16:51

Focal flange is NOT difficult to achieve.

This is what my adapter looks like with the Canon FD lens.
http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/22227/2005562312060758401_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005562312060758401)

I followed Daniel's but modified some areas, like;

1. No phone wires and battery box.
2. No switch since the battery should last for 30hrs and I will always be using it all the time anyway.
3. No polarizing ring
4. Used a small resistor instead of a Rheostat. (got it from a penlight)
5. Modified focal flange.

Sorry I don't have a picture with the adapter and the HV20, since this is my only camera.

twoneil

2007 July 26th, 10:59

do you mean its not easy to control focus-wise due to the lens, or do you mean its hard to control focus at a shallow dof?

Yes, it's hard to focus on a shallow dof (low f-stop).

I've been practicing my new HV20 with the adapter and it 'appears' that focusing with the LCD screen is easy. However, when I put it in my PC in full HD, most of my footage are out of focus.

My shots were hand held so it's constantly moving. I guess it would have been better with a stable tripod.

Lens: Canon FD 50mm f-stop 1.8

Erik Bien

2007 July 26th, 11:25

twoneil,

Stopping your lens down will help some, and longer lenses generally have a deeper focal plane.

There's a handy web-widget for generating Custom Depth-of-Field Charts (http://johnhendry.com/gadget/dof.php) that should be handy for most 35mm adapter users ...

DanDOF

2007 July 28th, 17:53

This is what my adapter looks like with the Canon FD lens.
http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/22227/2005562312060758401_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005562312060758401)

I followed Daniel's but modified some areas, like;

1. No phone wires and battery box.
2. No switch since the battery should last for 30hrs and I will always be using it all the time anyway.
3. No polarizing ring
4. Used a small resistor instead of a Rheostat. (got it from a penlight)
5. Modified focal flange.
Getting the right focal flange was a pain, so I'd really recommend you get the VH57x or the VH72ND.

Sorry I don't have a picture with the adapter and the HV20, since this is my only camera.

Hi everybody!

That was essentially the information I've been searching for all week (i.e. attaching a FD lens to an EOS macro tube AS WELL AS adjusting the focal flange).

I still have a question about using mount adapter's instead of gluing.

Here is my email I recently sent to Daniel Schweinert at www.jetsetmodels.info

Daniel, I have a question:
If I buy a canon FD mount lens (f/1.4) and need to connect it to the EOS macro tube, I know I need to use an adapter from FD to EOS (EF).
However I am concerned about how this will effect the DOF adapter.

One issue (issue A) is the concern of adjusting the focal flange to be 41.6mm (see http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/konzept2.jpg) from bayonett outside edge to the gg-holder. This is to maintain "infinity focus".

Would I simply adjust the placement of the GG holder by how many milimeters the mount adapter adds beyond the bayonett, in order to maintain infinity focus? If so, I feel relatively capable of measuring a new placement for the gg-holder to accomodate the extra length of the mount adapter.

The other issue (issue B) is the concern of the size of the mount adapter's "corrective lens" reducing the size of the visible image for the focusing screen and therefore camcorder.
For example this particular mount adapter has a small "corrective" lens.
See: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160141662022&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.ca%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsea rch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D1 60141662022%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1

Is the "corrective lens" in the mount adapter even an issue?

If it is I would consider other options.
For example, there is a different mount adapter which has NO small "corrective lens", no optics at all to interfere. Are those a better option?
See:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Canon-FD-to-Canon-EOS-350d-20d-30d-400d-10d-5D-adapter_W0QQitemZ170134826082QQihZ007QQcategoryZ30 059QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I could alternatively just glue the Canon FD lens onto the EOS macro tube. But that seems messy and doesn't allow me to interchange lenses later, for example with a zoom lens.

I look forward to your advice, Daniel.

Thanks
Dan
Windsor, ON, Canada

Can anyone else give me an answer regarding these two issues?

Thanks
Dan

twoneil

2007 July 28th, 19:56

I've learned all these through the hard way; trial and error.
grrr....cost me time and money, so my advice to anyone making this adapter is to be patient and gather lots of infos.
You can never be too sure.

Would I simply adjust the placement of the GG holder by how many millimeters the mount adapter adds beyond the bayonett, in order to maintain infinity focus? If so, I feel relatively capable of measuring a new placement for the gg-holder to accomodate the extra length of the mount adapter.

Yes, adjust the placement of the GG holder.
From what I see, the focal flange of EOS lenses are different from the FD lenses.
So you can't interchange lenses between them, so we're stuck with FD.

To set the focal flange, I turn the FD lens to focus to infinity and point it at a far object (i.e. trees really far).
Once the image on the focusing screen is clear, you now have the measurement of the focal flange (~40mm).
This is the most important part since there is no turning back once you've glued the GG holder in place.
To be in the safe side, I've also subtracted 1mm to allow any margin of error.
Therefore you'll always have infinity focus even though you lose a tiny bit of macro.

Is the "corrective lens" in the mount adapter even an issue?

Big issue.
The FD-EOS w/ corrective lens allows you to interchange between EOS & FD lenses.
EDIT: FD-EOS w/ Corrective lens makes your image foggy ---> click here for an example (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=2780)
It lowers light by a stop and degrades the quality of your wonderful FD lens, which is definitely a no no for me.
The best FD-EOS adapters you can find are expensive (~$400) and are not readily available to consumers.

I could alternatively just glue the Canon FD lens onto the EOS macro tube. But that seems messy and doesn't allow me to interchange lenses later, for example with a zoom lens.

Don't even bother gluing since you've found a "mount adapter with NO small corrective lens". This mount adapter is better than gluing.
(agrhh...why didn't I search for this adapter in the first place???)

In conclusion:
1. Only use FD lenses
2. Don't buy FD-EOS adapter with corrective lens
3. Buy mount adapter with NO corrective lens
4. Adjust proper focal flange

DanDOF

2007 July 29th, 02:16

Thank you so much for your reply.

To set the focal flange, I turn the FD lens to focus to infinity and point it at a far object (i.e. trees really far).
Once the image on the focusing screen is clear, you now have the measurement of the focal flange (~40mm).
This is the most important part since there is no turning back once you've glued the GG holder in place.
To be in the safe side, I've also subtracted 1mm to allow any margin of error.
Therefore you'll always have infinity focus even though you lose a tiny bit of macro.

Do you mean subract 1mm so the gg holder is closer or farther away from the lens?

Don't even bother gluing since you've found a "mount adapter with NO small corrective lens". This mount adapter is better than gluing.

Wow, great, I'll buy that right away so it arrives around the same time as my other shipments.

Hey I guess I could order 1 more EOS tube so that I could have an extra ring #3 (or is it a bayonett?) for connecting EOS lenses later.

Just to be clear, using a FD ZOOM lens will require exactly the same distance as any other normal (i.e. prime) FD lens, right?

Also, I spoke with a photographer at a wedding I was at tonight and asked him about differences between Nikon (Nikkor) and Canon lenses. He said he could actually see the difference, specifically that Nikon lenses produced better sharpness than Canon lenses. Anyone here agree or disagree? Anyway, on Monday I'm gonna go buy a Canon FD 50mm f/1.4 lens for $75 CDN (Canadian).

In conclusion:
1. Only use FD lenses
2. Don't buy FD-EOS adapter with corrective lens
3. Buy mount adapter with NO corrective lens
4. Adjust proper focal flange

That was really clear, I'm glad this forum exists as a resource.

I got another question though: its regarding gluing a Canon focussing screen (e.g. EE-A or EE-S) into a gg-holder, such as the one I purchased on www.jetsetmodels.info

A) What type of glue can I use other than a hot glue gun?

B) If I do use a hot glue gun, are there any tricks for temporarily protecting the focussing screen with paper or something? (I'm worred about getting hot glue on the glass.)

Thanks,
Dan

twoneil

2007 July 29th, 07:09

Do you mean subract 1mm so the gg holder is closer or farther away from the lens?

GG holder is 'closer' to the lens.
Notice that when you adjust the focus on the FD lens, the lenses moves farther. So you have a chance to add more length but you can 'never' subtract any length. It would be pleasant to set them perfectly. But due to the nature of the DIY project; it's worth subtracting a millimeter.

Just to be clear, using an FD ZOOM lens will require exactly the same distance as any other normal (i.e. prime) FD lens, right?

Yes, since FD cameras require FD lenses with same focal flange.

Also, I spoke with a photographer at a wedding I was at tonight and asked him about differences between Nikon (Nikkor) and Canon lenses. He said he could actually see the difference, specifically that Nikon lenses produced better sharpness than Canon lenses. Anyone here agree or disagree? Anyway, on Monday I'm gonna go buy a Canon FD 50mm f/1.4 lens for $75 CDN (Canadian).

I don't know which one is better but I know which one is cheaper, haha. Heck, I even got one of my lens for $2CAD. Anyway my main concern here is the price. Although, I notice that prices of FD lenses on eBay is climbing! (is it because of this tutorial? maybe not)

My problem right now is vignetting. The center is brighter than the edges. I don't know if it is caused by the lens or because I don't use an achromat.
I still strongly recommend getting an achromat from Daniel.

I got another question though: its regarding gluing a Canon focusing screen (e.g. EE-A or EE-S) into a gg-holder, such as the one I purchased on www.jetsetmodels.info

Daniel advised me that I could also use JB weld. I even use Elmer's glue.
I used a tiny spatula(or tiny screw driver) to apply the glue on the edge. Small amounts will do. Just be careful not to smudge the focusing screen.

Work in a dust free environment.
EDIT: NEVER touch the focusing screen. Caution w/ quetips use; you could easily scratch the surface of the focusing screen.

You could also use the FD lens as a microscope.
DON'T use superglue, don't even superglue anything near it, gases will destroy your focusing screen. Don't clean it with water or anything liquid; it will damage the layers.

I doubt about temporarily protecting the focusing screen since you might even smudge some glue if you accidentally moved the paper around.

seider

2007 July 29th, 14:19

im feel kind lost right now, so can someone explain what focal flange is, i looked on wikipida and all i found was this, and could someone please explain it in a more simple manner, and why i would have to worry about it when building my 35mm adpater.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance

twoneil

2007 July 29th, 15:10

Focal Flange = (in our case) is the distance between lens & focusing screen.

You would have to worry about this because if you didn't set the right focal flange, you will have some problems.

Examples are:

If the distance is too short: ----]
You will have infinity focus, but you will lose some macro focus.

If the distance is too long: -------------------]
You will lose infinity focus, but you will gain some macro focus.

If the distance is just right: ----------]
You will have infinity focus and you will have the maximum macro focus available.

Legend:
Infinity focus = Far far away object looks clear
Macro focus = close-up object looks clear

The most pain I have is connecting the wires to the vibrating motor. So if you're a starter, get the SH-57EE from Daniel and build a static adapter for now. If you're used to building DIY projects and adventurous of some sort; then you could pursue in building a Vibrating adapter.

seider

2007 July 29th, 15:16

twoneil

2007 July 29th, 15:43

ok, well i dont plan on shooting many marco shots, i will mailny be shooting long shots, and i dont think will never be ever be really close to my subject (a skiier), and even if i was i wouldnt dont think i will need great macro focus.

What I mean by macro is the close ups, like 0.5 - 2 meters object from the camera.
You will lose that distance if the focal flange is too short, even just 5mm, you might lose up to 1meter of distance. So set it as close as possible to the perfect focal flange.
But yeah, I think in your case you won't be shooting a lot of close-ups.

so you think i could go with a shorter focal flange?
Yeah why not. So just to be sure, set it 1mm shorter from the true value. Shorter than that would be a waste.

seider

2007 July 29th, 16:29

ok, well when i do close ups, it will probally be a follow cam, and i wouldnt wanna use my 35mm adapter on a follow cam anyway.

and another point is that how do you adjust/find out the perfect focal flange, and what do you mean by the 1mm shorter from the true value?

ForwardLooker

2007 July 29th, 16:32

ok, well i dont plan on shooting many marco shots, i will mailny be shooting long shots, and i dont think will never be ever be really close to my subject (a skiier), and even if i was i wouldnt dont think i will need great macro focus. so you think i could go with a shorter focal flange?

o and thanks for the help

I would suggest setting up your focussing screen with the correct focal flange for infinity focus. Its the lens you use that will give you the shot you want. long shots - zoom lens. this way if you do decide to shoot macro you wont have to alter your adapter just get a macro lens. you never know what you may end up filming in the future.

Fletch78

2007 July 29th, 18:35

ok, well i dont plan on shooting many marco shots, i will mailny be shooting long shots, and i dont think will never be ever be really close to my subject (a skiier) (...)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main goal of using a 35mm adapter getting shallow DOF even on relatively close subjects, without having to zoom in from farther away?

I've done some SLR (analog) photography in the past, and in my experience, you get very little bokeh (=shallow DOF) when shooting subjects farther away than 2 metres, even with the iris full opened. Unless you zoom in, but then you could get the same effect from your videocam without the adapter. You'll hardly get selective focus in those long shots you're talking about. That's why even in million dollar Hollywood movies the long and wide shots have almost infinity focus. It's the closeups and the medium wide shots where shallow DOF is involved.

Or am I completely wrong?

seider

2007 July 29th, 19:36

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main goal of using a 35mm adapter getting shallow DOF even on relatively close subjects, without having to zoom in from farther away?

I've done some SLR (analog) photography in the past, and in my experience, you get very little bokeh (=shallow DOF) when shooting subjects farther away than 2 metres, even with the iris full opened. Unless you zoom in, but then you could get the same effect from your videocam without the adapter. You'll hardly get selective focus in those long shots you're talking about. That's why even in million dollar Hollywood movies the long and wide shots have almost infinity focus. It's the closeups and the medium wide shots where shallow DOF is involved.

Or am I completely wrong?

ok, well i didnt really explain my self, and i also wasnt really thinking when i typed that last post (sorry about that), and im also not that knowledgable in filming/photography but this site and tought me a lot (thanks everyone). so i know how hard it is while focus on a moving subject that is why most of the shots that i will do with it (while im filming skiing) will be of mainly rails, because filming jumps with it is poinless because i would have to be on the side and i couldnt really have anything that woulndt be in focus. so i will use it on urban rail sessions, and just rails in the park (on the hill), and then just filming other random stuff. So i came to a conculsion (thanks for your convincing and very great help) i would want to have the correct focal flange for infinity focus.

And i have a few more questions involving zoom lenses (just curious and wanting to expand my knowledge)

would they work with the 35mm adapter (if you zoom will it screw up the focal flange)
and how much optical zoom do average zoom lens'es come with
whats a resionable price i could get a decent on for?

DanDOF

2007 July 29th, 19:38

seider

2007 July 29th, 19:43

Ya, I'd agree.
Seider, just plan for having the option to shoot anything.

Curious how you plan to hold your camcorder + adapter + lens while skiing?
I hope you will use lens support. Would you use a DIY steadicam?

i wouldnt use the 35mm adapter and ski at the same time, i would be using a tripod. but now that i think of it if i do do follow cams with the 35mm adapter and stay the same distance away from the skiier at all times and have a kind-of shallow DOF it would look pertty cool exspecially off of jumps (if i go either behind or beside or even infront the skiier), but to do that i would definitly want a really stong support for it and a either purchase a steadycam or make one myself

twoneil

2007 July 29th, 23:00

Shooting with this adapter on sports could be frustrating. Today I tried filming basketball & volleyball; I wasn't impressed with the shallow DOF.
I say in a controlled environment (such as filming) shallow DOF will truly show it's beauty. Following the players and the ball with a clear focus is close to impossible (unless that's the effect you are looking for). So I end up using a tripod and frame a shot, then hope for a better editing on post.

EDIT: Can't believe I did this. Of course you should not use shallow DOF on sports. pfffft

seider

2007 July 29th, 23:23

Shooting with this adapter on sports could be frustrating. Today I tried filming basketball & volleyball; I wasn't impressed with the shallow DOF.
I say in a controlled environment (such as filming) shallow DOF will truly show it's beauty. Following the players and the ball with a clear focus is close to impossible (unless that's the effect you are looking for). So I end up using a tripod and frame a shot, then hope for a better editing on post.

but when i will be filming the skiiers i know where and what they will be doing so i can plan ahead, let just say they are hitting a rail. i could set the camera right by the jump for the rail and have it focused on the begining of the rail then when the get on it start focusing further down towards the end of the rail

twoneil

2007 July 29th, 23:38

duketh

2007 July 30th, 05:58

I've been hooked on this thread for the last two weeks. Was just wondering if anyone knows if Daniel is still making parts?

Want want want want want :P

cant wait to start putting one of these together

twoneil

2007 July 30th, 06:43

ok, so I only broke the springs of the gg holder but it proves to me one thing; static adapter is still very good considering you keep your focusing screen clean. I only notice a slight difference between the vibrating gg and static (the fact that there is not a single dust).

If you are on budget you will go with a static gg holder (SH_57ee (http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/sh_57ee.jpg)). Otherwise, go get the VH57X.
You don't have to worry about the focal flange. I'm also guessing that it has larger vibrations and produces less noise.

So you would either go static SH-57EE or vibrating VH57X.

Here is my sample footage.
http://www.uploading.com/files/SMZDT...ic_GG.wmv.html

seider

2007 July 30th, 11:40

That's great for you; cause in my case, I came unprepared. Anyway, it was only a practice. Next time I have to come up with a list of things to shoot so that it will make sense in the edit. Today's also a bad day. I'm depressed right now cause I broke my vibrating gg holder (adapter fell of a table). Guess I better sleep it off.

darn, that sucks, i hope you feel better, and i hope your vibrating gg holder recovers quickly.

I only notice a slight difference between the vibrating gg and static (the fact that there is not a single dust).

so any tips for keeping it clean? would compressed air work?....

PS: happy birthday

tkmslee

2007 July 30th, 12:09

darn, that sucks, i hope you feel better, and i hope your vibrating gg holder recovers quickly.

so any tips for keeping it clean? would compressed air work?....

PS: happy birthday

I usually use a cleaning kit with a nice soft cloth to clean the gg every once in a while. I have the whole thing sealed when it's put together so a minimal amount of dust even gets in. I know it's rudimentary, and a compressed air can would certainly be nice to have on hand, but I just blow off the gg when I start to notice dust. Here are my results of my static gg holder:

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1546

BTW I actually made scratches on my gg when I used a quetip...I was so pissed. Stay away from quetips. Once I replace it I know I'll be happy with the footage.

twoneil

2007 July 30th, 13:04

That's a great footage, I didn't notice any vignetting. Mine gradually shades off, is because of the lens I'm using?

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1546
this video is a great improvement from your last video. There is also less chromatic aberration and the images are clearer. How come??

(last video)http://www.leetj.com/vlog/videos/cascadesprings.mp4

tkmslee

2007 July 30th, 14:31

twoneil,

Thanks! I bought a simple HD 10x macro for it only $45. A lot cheaper than an achromat. I am quite satisfied with the clarity of it.

ForwardLooker

2007 July 30th, 15:54

twoneil,

Thanks! I bought a simple HD 10x macro for it only $45. A lot cheaper than an achromat. I am quite satisfied with the clarity of it.

wow tkmslee, your footage is looking great!! where can I buy one of those HD 10x macro?

tkmslee

2007 July 30th, 16:18

wow tkmslee, your footage is looking great!! where can I buy one of those HD 10x macro?

I got mine of fleaBay for about $45:

http://cgi.ebay.com/10x-HD-Pro-Macro-Lens-for-Fuji-Finepix-S7000-S602-6900_W0QQitemZ280137004471QQihZ018QQcategoryZ48528 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It is a 52mm thread or something like that. I had asked them to send one that is 58mm, just so I could get a bigger one and be able to use the sweet spot better. They sent the smaller one. But I tried it anyway and I liked the results. It is actually pretty small and doesn't look like it would fit into the macro tubes. But they also sent a macro adapter which increases in size as it gets to the end. So I was able to screw the lens to one end, then shove the macro it came with into the extension tubes and it ended up fitting perfectly...a very tight fit, then I just added some cement glue to it to hold it in. Just make sure you request bigger threads so they will send you the macro tube to use.

ForwardLooker

2007 July 30th, 16:40

Thanks for that info tkmslee, what exntension tube did you use for your adapter?

tkmslee

2007 July 30th, 17:27

Thanks for that info tkmslee, what exntension tube did you use for your adapter?

Just the cheap ones from ebay

ForwardLooker

2007 July 30th, 17:52

sorry i meant the size? (inner diameter etc..)

Fletch78

2007 July 30th, 19:15

Daniel recommends the macro extension tube from enjoyyourcamera.com. He did even confirm they were right when I asked him by email:

See here:

http://www.enjoyyourcamera.com/Canon-Accessories/Extension-Ring-Set-for-Canon-EOS-EF-SLR-und-DSLR-zB-350D-30D-20D-300D-5D::40.html

Might be the one to buy if you really want to be sure to get the right one. They ship worldwide, have a good reputation and prices are reasonable (even shipping).

ForwardLooker

2007 July 30th, 19:29

Hi Fletch, thanks for that but I was asking tkmslee those questions as I want to add a 10x HD macro to my adapter and I already have a nikon tube with the inner diameter of 54.4mm.

p.s I introduced daniels site to this forum, you can see my adapter in the first page of this thread - http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=489

white_2kgt

2007 July 30th, 20:37

ok, so I only broke the springs of the gg holder but it proves to me one thing; static adapter is still good considering you keep your focusing screen clean. I only notice a slight difference between the vibrating gg and static (the fact that there is not a single dust).

If you are on budget you will go with a static gg holder. Otherwise, go get the VH57X. Daniel's new design of VH57X is far more superior than the VH57.
You don't have to worry about the focal flange. I'm also guessing that it has larger vibrations and produces less noise.
Get the new one, you wouldn't regret it.

So you would either go static SH-57ND or vibrating VH57X.

Here is my sample footage.
http://www.uploading.com/files/SMZDTYV5/Static_GG.wmv.html

Dude, that was awesome! Video looked great but so was the way it was all put together! The acting was great too! damn!

twoneil

2007 July 30th, 21:39

Dude, that was awesome! Video looked great but so was the way it was all put together! The acting was great too! damn!

Sorry white for the big file, I'm still working on a smaller .mov compression.

white_2kgt

2007 July 31st, 09:02

Sorry white for the big file, I'm still working on a smaller .mov compression.

Not a problem for me, I have a Fiber Internet connection to my house :hv20-smilie24:
Post up some more video!!!

twoneil

2007 August 1st, 08:55

Does anyone have both Brevis and diy adapter. How does it compare to one another? Considering the big price difference, is there also a big gap between the image qualities on an HV20?

XFR

2007 August 1st, 09:10

I think the best thing about the Brevis is the loss of light, which is almost none. Would be fun if someone opened up their Brevis and see what's exactly inside :)

rwp230

2007 August 1st, 13:46

Hi, I have been thinking about putting together my own HV20 35mm adapter but i have a few questions. I was thinking of using a macro lens with the adapter, for example one like tkmslee mentioned before:

http://cgi.ebay.com/10x-HD-Pro-Macro-Lens-for-Fuji-Finepix-S7000-S602-6900_W0QQitemZ280137004471QQihZ018QQcategoryZ48528 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Does this 'crop' the image from the attached lens so that only the centre can be seen (i.e. not getting the "full image" from the lens - and therefore i would have to use a wider lens than otherwise would be needed). Also on If this is the case would an acromat to avoid that effect?

Also, on the DIY tutorials there seems to be quite a few UV filters added - are all of these needed? My main worry was that the more glass in the adapter would mean it would require more light is that true?

And one last thing, which viewing screen would you recommend for the adapter? I heard the Canon Ee-S / Ee-A both had their advantages/disadvantages in terms of brightness + ease of focusing but any suggestions?

twoneil

2007 August 1st, 14:31

........thinking of using a macro lens with the adapter...........
Does this 'crop' the image from the attached lens so that only the centre can be seen (i.e. not getting the "full image" from the lens - and therefore i would have to use a wider lens than otherwise would be needed). Also on If this is the case would an acromat to avoid that effect?

You will need it to avoid barrel distortion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_distortion).
You also need to 'crop' the image from the lens to avoid vignetting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting).
It is preferable to get a normal lens, like the 50mm SLR lens.

Also, on the DIY tutorials there seems to be quite a few UV filters added - are all of these needed? My main worry was that the more glass in the adapter would mean it would require more light is that true?

No, no light lost on the UV filter. It's better to have those since it will be very difficult to remove dust from your focusing screen.

tkmslee

2007 August 1st, 14:33

Does anyone have both Brevis and diy adapter. How does it compare to one another? Considering the big price difference, is there also a big gap between the image qualities on an HV20?

I really really want to get the Brevis for many reasons. But until I can really afford one, I have compared footage from my adapter ($200 approx) and the Brevis Adapter ($1200 approx) and I ask, is there really a difference worth $1000 here:

Footage 1 (http://hv20.info/yopu/lehi1.mov)

Footage 2 (http://www.sabipictures.com/heartofnow/vx/HV20Brevis_test3.mov)

I know there are differences because the Brevis uses great components, but I think that if you work hard to get good results out of your DIY adapter, you will be happy with it until you can get the best.

Fletch78

2007 August 1st, 16:58

(...) and I ask, is there really a difference worth $1000 here:

Footage 1 (http://hv20.info/yopu/lehi1.mov)

Footage 2 (http://www.sabipictures.com/heartofnow/vx/HV20Brevis_test3.mov)

In my opinion the difference is so subtle (if there is at all), it looks more like a post color correction (contrast enhancement) to me. The slight vignetting is almost the same on both clips, as well as the overall sharpness (it's hard to believe your adapter is homemade!). My final judgement would be: in no way the difference is worth $1000, even considering the Brevis is said to have a very low lightloss. And judging from your footage (which still amazes me: good camerawork and great picture quality!) your adapter can't be that bad in that matter.

ForwardLooker

2007 August 1st, 20:31

tkmslee, i wondered why you said you wanted a brevis!?! i think the results your getting are really very good!! I'm not saying don't buy a brevis but I think you have to remeber that the brevis also came from a DIY project and i'm guessing it was somthing very similiar to what we have made through Daniel.
I think what you really need to ask your self is are you gonna be able to justify spending $1000 on a adapter when you have built one for a quarter of the price that works just as well?

What are the many reasons you want the brevis?

Fletch78

2007 August 1st, 21:51

I've just reread Daniel's tutorial and I've just wondered, as I'm planning to use the adapter with Canon FD lenses and an EOS->FD converter (without corrective lens), how to adjust the focal flange. I understand that the ground glass has to be moved closer to make up for the additional lenght of the converter, but I don't see how this can be done. Those very fine "pins" between the ground glass holder and its basering don't look as if the could be shortened. The basering itself looks smaller in diameter than the bayonetring of the extension tube, so I guess it can't be simply "pushed" further inside.

Any ideas on this matter? How did you adjust focal flange on your adapter, twoneil? And are you relly sure the UV filter don't eat light? Daniel told me any lens will eat light. Or is a UV filter not considered a lens itself (is it just a "glass")?

ForwardLooker

2007 August 2nd, 07:19

are you relly sure the UV filter don't eat light? Daniel told me any lens will eat light. Or is a UV filter not considered a lens itself (is it just a "glass")?

Hi Flectch78, I have had my adapter without and now with the uv filters and I cant notice any diference in light loss, you have to make sure that you get good quality multi coated filters like these hoya ones:
view (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Hoya-HMC-Multi-coated-49mm-UV-filter-Made
-In-Japan_W0QQitemZ300135049723QQihZ020QQcategoryZ1521 9QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

As you want to defintely avoid internal reflections within the adpater.

ForwardLooker

2007 August 2nd, 07:28

I have noticed quite a few of the same basic questions being asked over again which are answered earlier in this thread. maybe people should read through the thread before posting a question.

just a thought.....

:)

twoneil

2007 August 2nd, 08:01

.....adapter with Canon FD lenses and an EOS->FD converter (without corrective lens), how to adjust the focal flange. I understand that the ground glass has to be moved closer to make up for the additional lenght of the converter, but I don't see how this can be done. Those very fine "pins" between the ground glass holder and its basering don't look as if the could be shortened. The basering itself looks smaller in diameter than the bayonetring of the extension tube, so I guess it can't be simply "pushed" further inside.

How did you adjust focal flange on your adapter, twoneil?

If you want to adjust the focal flange, you will have to use the VH57 gg holder or SH57; and not the VH57X (since the focal flange is already fixed).
I can't measure the focal flange in my adapter now cause it's already inside, you have to adjust it yourself. It should be between 40mm - 34mm (not sure).

I temporarily glue the gg holder and check it frequently to see if I get the infinity focus and the maximum range of the lens. Once I have the perfect placement, I glue it permanently.
http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/22874/2006115694077225991_rs.jpg

cakewalkr7

2007 August 2nd, 08:40

I really really want to get the Brevis for many reasons. But until I can really afford one, I have compared footage from my adapter ($200 approx) and the Brevis Adapter ($1200 approx) and I ask, is there really a difference worth $1000 here:

Footage 1 (http://hv20.info/yopu/lehi1.mov)

Footage 2 (http://www.sabipictures.com/heartofnow/vx/HV20Brevis_test3.mov)

I know there are differences because the Brevis uses great components, but I think that if you work hard to get good results out of your DIY adapter, you will be happy with it until you can get the best.

I've been watching this thread and am hoping to build this but the first link here scares me about the results of this DIY gizmo. The whole video is shakey. I haven't noticed that in others that have been posted. What caused that? The 2nd one seems okay but there's enough movement that it could be hiding the shakiness so I just wanted to make sure that if I had this thing on a tripod I wouldn't have to worry about my footage looking like it was having a seizure.

As I've read through this thread I get very intimidated because I don't have a background in photography or video, so a lot of what is discussed is greek to me. Is this still something I should be able to put together on my own? If not, where do I start learning about the concepts needed to understand how this adapter and it's components work? Thanks!

ForwardLooker

2007 August 2nd, 09:13

Hi cakewalkr7, I would say the wobbling is down to the tripod used and you have to get used to handling the adapters as you are focusing with your hand right on the lens so you have to be gentle etc..
you have to take into consideration that most of the video posted is test footage from people who have just made there adapters and are new to them.

cakewalkr7

2007 August 2nd, 09:26

tkmslee

2007 August 2nd, 10:36

Really:hv20-smilie51:? The tutorial calls it a vibrating adapter so I figured it was something in the adapter? Thanks.

The links I posted above, the first one is the one that I made with my home made adapter and crappy tripod. It is having a seizure because my tripod is not the best and the resistance it gives when I pan is not correct...plus since it has an appendage on the end of it (the 6" adapter) it was bouncy. That clip was made using a static adapter so it was not the vibration of the adapter. The second clip I posted was from someone using the professional adapter called Brevis35. This is a vibrating adapter but that is not what makes the image shake. It looks like whomever made that clip did all handhold work...which is different from the seizure look and feel. I personally like handhold stuff sometimes.

So don't get discouraged by these two clips. If you get a good tripod and solidly stabilize the camera and adapter, the footage will be fine. These are things that plague every adapter...not just DIY ones. That's why the professional adapters are commonly sold with super solid support rails that makes your whole rig very sturdy when set up.

Bottom line though, if your tripod sucks, don't expect to have nice flowing movements. Good luck!

ForwardLooker

2007 August 2nd, 11:28

Really:hv20-smilie51:? The tutorial calls it a vibrating adapter so I figured it was something in the adapter? Thanks.

this is the size of the motor from Daniels tutorials :

http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/black_mamba_tn.jpg

Very small!

Have a look at this: http://hv20.info/yopu/studio_montage.wmv

twoneil

2007 August 2nd, 12:44

The links I posted above, the first one is the one that I made with my home made adapter and crappy tripod. It is having a seizure because my tripod is not the best and the resistance it gives when I pan is not correct.....This is a vibrating adapter but that is not what makes the image shake. It looks like whomever made that clip did all handhold work...which is different from the seizure look and feel. I personally like handhold stuff sometimes.

I made this test video to show hand held work from an HV20 w/ 35mm adapter. Some footage are static but most of it are hand held. The video is not smooth at all, specially at 24p but I like the inward movement of the camera.

This is NOT the best video I could create with a static adapter; no achromat and a cheap FD lens. It's an OK footage.
http://www.mediafire.com/?1txedrhabnm

tkmslee

2007 August 2nd, 12:57

twoneil

2007 August 2nd, 13:08

Twoneil,

I liked the video, really. Some people might say it's too jerky because you moved quickly with the camera and the 24p makes that look unsmooth. But it totally gives it a new perspective and artistic feel...which is what the film industry is all about.

Thanks a lot! Cause I felt so unsatisfied with my adapter when comparing my videos to others. I won't be too hard on myself next time.

tkmslee

2007 August 2nd, 13:13

Thanks a lot! Cause I felt so unsatisfied with my adapter when comparing my videos to others. I won't be too hard on myself next time.

I am about to go and shoot a commercial for web use for somebody and I am going to use my static adapter, HV20, and do some hand held work as well. I think I am going to try and get some of the different perspective shots like in your video just to see what happens.

xcgeek

2007 August 2nd, 17:57

Thank you twoneil for all of your great posts, diagrams, and explanations. I have been following this thread carefully since the beginning, and you have perfectly answered many of the questions and issues I had been wondering about. I think I may actually take the plunge on this project thanks to all the great advice.

Fletch78

2007 August 2nd, 20:17

If you want to adjust the focal flange, you will have to use the VH57 gg holder or SH57; and not the VH57X (since the focal flange is already fixed).

Thank you, twoneil, for clarifying this. That's what I suspected. So it won't be that simple to assemble an adapter ready for Canon FD lenses - thinking about getting the focal flange right and having to use glue to fix it makes me a little bit nervous.

I just wondered: the VH57X with the fixed focal flange has got those carbon pins, which make glueing of the gg holder unnecessary. The holder itself seems to have some space inside the extension tubes to move (at least it looks like this, but I might be wrong). Now I asked myself how the vibrating motor is supposed to move the gg holder if it's fixed with glue. Is there a right amount of glue to use to keep the holder a little bit loose, or is the motor that strong, or is the gg holder actually consisting of two parts of which one is not completely fixed?

I hope someone can solve this last "mistery" for me!

ForwardLooker

2007 August 2nd, 21:17

Thank you, twoneil, for clarifying this. That's what I suspected. So it won't be that simple to assemble an adapter ready for Canon FD lenses - thinking about getting the focal flange right and having to use glue to fix it makes me a little bit nervous.

I just wondered: the VH57X with the fixed focal flange has got those carbon pins, which make glueing of the gg holder unnecessary. The holder itself seems to have some space inside the extension tubes to move (at least it looks like this, but I might be wrong). Now I asked myself how the vibrating motor is supposed to move the gg holder if it's fixed with glue. Is there a right amount of glue to use to keep the holder a little bit loose, or is the motor that strong, or is the gg holder actually consisting of two parts of which one is not completely fixed?

I hope someone can solve this last "mistery" for me!

If the holder isnt loose, I think the design of the gg-holder will be sprung:

http://djspinz.co.uk/35mmside.jpg

If you look at the edge of the holder it's actually sprung which gives the inside part of the holder enough room to vibrate. so glueing the holder dosen't effect anythin. If you use bathroom sealant as your glue its great cus you can just peel it off if you need to. I even got some on my focusing screen, i waited till it dried and peeled it off and it didnt effect it at all!

Hope that helped

twoneil

2007 August 2nd, 21:21

Thank you, twoneil, for clarifying this. That's what I suspected. So it won't be that simple to assemble an adapter ready for Canon FD lenses - thinking about getting the focal flange right and having to use glue to fix it makes me a little bit nervous.

It's actually very simple once you know what to do. It's like using a hammer and hammering with the heavy side rather than the wooden side. Simple knowledge makes a difference.

Thank you twoneil for all of your great posts, diagrams, and explanations. I have been following this thread carefully since the beginning, and you have perfectly answered many of the questions and issues I had been wondering about. I think I may actually take the plunge on this project thanks to all the great advice.

Thanks a lot for all your comments. It takes away my depression from destroying 2 of my lenses and gg holder. hahaha. I'm ok now, and the lenses & gg holder are fine now. Check out my footage on the 'Really good 35mm FOOTAGE COLLECTION (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=2621)'.
(I'm doing these experiments so you don't have to....)

Fletch78

2007 August 2nd, 22:00

Thank you ForwardLooker, that's what I wanted to know.

Thank heavens you won't be following my gruelling experience on setting up the focal flange for the FDs. It's just not worth it if you are a beginner and if you don't have a huge collection of FDs (which is in my case).
I didn't know about the new VH57X when I was building my adapter so I went for the basic VH57. If only I knew......

There's just one problem: those EOS lenses are damn expensive compared to FD lenses (the cheap ones are mostly zoom lenses with a minimal f stop of 3.5). I don't own a FD collection either, I just know they're good and cheap (I bought a used FD 1.8 55mm a few weeks ago, looks as if it's never been used, perfect condition, for about 15$). But if it's such a "kerfuffle" to get a proper focal flange with the VH57, it might be better to get the hassle-free VH57X, start with a cheap FD converter (if you own a FD lens like me) and live with the inability of infinity focus and wait for a good occasion to buy a cheap EOS lens.

DanDOF

2007 August 3rd, 01:30

I plan on using my FD to EOS adapter.
I don't see what's the big deal about measuring a new position for the gg-holder. I'm just going to measure the same exact distance (41.6mm for a Canon SLR lens according to this (http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/konzept2.jpg) diagram), but instead of measuring from the bayonette's edge, measure from the FD adapter's edge until 41.6mm into the EOS macro tube.

Twoneil's diagram (http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/22874/2006115694077225991_rs.jpg) illustrates this idea. He said ~40mm (around 40mm). I'm pretty sure the focal flange should be 44mm though, but because the gg-holder is kind of thick you gotta aim for between 40mm and 44mm to get around 41.6mm.

Hey, I'm a little nervous about measuring wrong, but with a little patience I know I can do it, and so can you! :hv20-smilie64: :hv20-smilie77: :hv20-smilie01:

Just remember you can always use your eye to test whether infinity focus has been achieved (i.e. if you've measured correct). Try to adjust your lens' focus on something far away: check! Then, focus on something upclose: check? Well, then you got infinity focus. :hv20-smilie31:

ForwardLooker

2007 August 3rd, 05:36

Just remember you can always use your eye to test whether infinity focus has been achieved (i.e. if you've measured correct). Try to adjust your lens' focus on something far away: check! Then, focus on something upclose: check? Well, then you got infinity focus. :hv20-smilie31:

Thats how I did mine, I have a nikon tube and the focal flange is 45mm. I put the gg-holder roughly 45-47mm away from the lens then held the adapter up and looked at the gg to check the focus, at this point you can clearly see a picture on the gg. I kept pushing the gg-holder in bit by bit until i had infinity focus. it was very quick and easy.