DIY Cheap Monitors

[jeramiah1945]

I am looking to build my HV20 into a 'rig' like so many other users have. I have ordered the parts for the 35mm adapter and also have a rod support system on the way. One of the parts I haven't figured out yet is the monitor. I need something decent but I don't want to spend much money. I was fishing around on ebay and I think I have an idea. There are lots of used portable DVD players for sale with 8" screens that are pretty cheap. Even cheaper are players being sold for parts as the player doesn't work. Of course all we would need is the monitor. I am going to see if I can get one cheap and take it apart for the monitor. Has anyone else tried this? Love to get your feedback on the idea.

Thanks!

[bluegrass]

I am looking to build my HV20 into a 'rig' like so many other users have. I have ordered the parts for the 35mm adapter and also have a rod support system on the way. One of the parts I haven't figured out yet is the monitor. I need something decent but I don't want to spend much money. I was fishing around on ebay and I think I have an idea. There are lots of used portable DVD players for sale with 8" screens that are pretty cheap. Even cheaper are players being sold for parts as the player doesn't work. Of course all we would need is the monitor. I am going to see if I can get one cheap and take it apart for the monitor. Has anyone else tried this? Love to get your feedback on the idea.

Thanks!

First of all, a cheap 8" monitor isn't going to buy you that much over using the built in LCD panel because a cheap one or a portable DVD player is going to be low resolution composite video input which incidentally, if you go that route be sure and know whether it has a video input.

Second the only way your going to get one that will be valuable for focusing (especially for use with the 35mm adaptor) is to get a high def monitor. There is a thread here on this forum about how to go about purchasing a kit for about $400 and building your own case. Before the kit was discovered, there was somebody named Brian that was building some high def monitors as a side thing and selling them for about $800. That may seem high but in reality if you go and buy a small high def monitor your not likely to find anything less than $2000. Yes that sound rediculous but in fact that is where the technology price point is at this time. I'm sure with all the high def camcorders and TVs being marketed today, this will change in the next year or so.

Thirdly since you're investing in a 35 mm adaptor which is probably going to be another $1000 investment at minimum by the time you're through, you probably would be able to fund a good monitor and not think about a portable DVD substitute. I speak from a lot of research on this subject that I did before I concluded I needed a $800 investment to get the ability to do fine focus adjustments. To prove what I say, why don't you take your HV20 into Best Buy or CC and ask someone (if you can find anyone that will help you) to attach your HV20 to a portable DVD player and do some point and focus around the store while viewing it on the DVD player. Take your av cable that came with the HV20 with you by the way. Also get your settings figured out and tested with your VCR or TV at home first.

I would forget the idea of separating the LCD panel from the controller built into a portable DVD player. That won't be practical to do, besides if one of these portable DVD players would work to your satisfaction, they are so compact anyway, there isn't really a need to separate the flip up screen from the base unit. Now if they would start building an HDMI input into a laptop, we would really have something practical for mulitple usage.

[jeramiah1945]

I don't think it would be that difficult to buy an HD monitor for $800 and frankly, that is too much to spend. I am willing to give up some resolution just to get a better view of the frame and for focusing. I don't know if you have noticed but the frame that the camera records is a bit bigger than the frame displayed on the onboard monitor. Very frustrating!

If I could build the monitor for $30 or so, I think it would be well worth it.

[bluegrass]

I don't think it would be that difficult to buy an HD monitor for $800 and frankly, that is too much to spend. I am willing to give up some resolution just to get a better view of the frame and for focusing. I don't know if you have noticed but the frame that the camera records is a bit bigger than the frame displayed on the onboard monitor. Very frustrating!

If I could build the monitor for $30 or so, I think it would be well worth it.

If you can build a high def monitor with an HDMI interface for $30, you can probably make a million.

Take a look at the DYI monitor thread for more info on this.

[Tosh Layton]

If anyone builds a $30 monitor I will pay at least twice that. thats a 100 percent profit man. I have $60 cash right now,,,,, and,,,,,,GO!

[jeramiah1945]

You guys don't read so good huh? I expect to make a $30 monitor that is NOT HD. I would expect we should all provide a supportive environment for the exchange of ideas instead of acting like a bunch of adolescents...

[Mal]

You guys don't read so good huh? I expect to make a $30 monitor that is NOT HD. I would expect we should all provide a supportive environment for the exchange of ideas instead of acting like a bunch of adolescents...

:hv20-smilie81:

[RicanJoe]

You guys don't read so good huh? I expect to make a $30 monitor that is NOT HD. I would expect we should all provide a supportive environment for the exchange of ideas instead of acting like a bunch of adolescents...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Insignia-NS-7HTV-7in-Portable-Digital-LCD-TV_W0QQitemZ290190741510QQihZ019QQcategoryZ11074QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Insignia-7in-16-9-Portable-LCD-Monitor_W0QQitemZ120194066314QQihZ002QQcategoryZ94 848QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.amazon.com/Curtis-RT700-LCD-widescreen-portable/dp/B000P22EQ6/ref=pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1197498057&sr=8-4

Bid/buy away :hv20-smilie03:

[jeramiah1945]

:hv20-smilie81:

You couldn't proven my point any better!

[Lunchbox]

I'm selling one on ebay. Come on.. bid!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130181127255&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=003

[RockyRoad2929]

Yeah,

Can I buy one of those $30 buck monitor? I'm in!!!

PM me.

Cheers...Ha Ha...!!!

[RicanJoe]

I'm selling one on ebay. Come on.. bid!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130181127255&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=003
Thats a great deal!

[SalaTar]

You guys don't read so good huh? I expect to make a $30 monitor that is NOT HD. I would expect we should all provide a supportive environment for the exchange of ideas instead of acting like a bunch of adolescents...

Foot in mouth disease?
Or ID ten T error

[Cinemacuteo]

Best resolution ever for the price.
dvi 19" WS monitor and HDMI converter

$165

[koolpenguin89]

If Resolution is not a concern, and portability is a must, try this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=497468&is=REG

[Mal]

If Resolution is not a concern, and portability is a must, try this
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=497468&is=REG

HUH?????

What's up with that price???

That thing sells for $170 elsewehere, why is it only $40 at B&H?

Weird...

[attowatt]

HUH?????

What's up with that price???

That thing sells for $170 elsewehere, why is it only $40 at B&H?

Weird...

I just called bh photo to confirm that price... yep it $39.95 and will ship at the earliest Wednesday 26th. Am seriously contemplating ordering it.... before bh photo changes their mind.

[koolpenguin89]

yeah, b&h has some wierd deals some times, like theyre prices for the vegas programs. i didnt know that is was more expensive other places, but when i saw it i thought "wow, thats a good deal" IMO, 3.5" is the perfect size for an lcd screen. i remember the first time i used the dvx100, i said to myself "this is alot better than im used to"

[molder101]

This player only has a 3.5", I can't find out how many pixels it is, and from what I can see it's full screen. Seems like keeping the $40 in your pocket is a better idea.

[RicanJoe]

Well, according to Walmart (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5244545)
the display resolution is "320 x 240". But the advantage it is that for $40 you could have and up right screen. You could probably even attach it (tape) right over the fold out lcd.

[attowatt]

$40 bucks is pretty cheap considering walmart has it for $160. I ordered it Monday and it should be here next week. I will be using autofocus on camera, so I only need it to remotely center my subject.
oh yeah... if it doesn't work out, i will return to B&H.

[alanz]

I picked up one of the RCA x2400 units during a visit to B&H yesterday. This could be a handy thing to have around.

I've only done a little preliminary testing, but here are some observations.


I connected the HV20's composite av cord to the hv20 av/headphone out port
I connected the x2400's composite av cord to the x2400 av/headphone out port
I connected the male yellow ends of the two cables with an rca style female to female coupler. So, at least this way the video from the HV20 gets to the x2400. I could do a similar thing by coupling the red and white audio cables, but I only had one coupler laying around the house. I haven't looked yet, but there may be a mini-plug to mini-plug composite av cable available somewhere.



I played some recorded video from the HV20 onto the x2400, and it letterboxed... very reasonable.

I then switched the Hv20 to camera mode, and the screen displayed on the x2400 (which was what i wanted to do all along as a remote monitor for times when the camera is mounted high on a tripod.


Interestingly, no matter what I set the camera output to (HDV, DV, wide, etc) the entire x2400 display is filled (that is, no letterboxing). Nothing is cut off, it's just expanded top to bottom
All grids, timers, icons, etc that normally display in the hv20's lcd display just fine on the x2400


So, it looks very promising... and at $39 it's a bargain!

One other note.. on my particular unit, the button that does double duty for record/start/stop and speaker/headphone toggle, is a little funky. It takes more of a rolling press from side to side rather than a simple press. I thought the unit was faulty because I couldn't start/stop recordings or toggle the speaker with a simple button press. However now that I know the secret handshake that this unit requires, it's fine... perhaps with some use, the button will become more sensitive.

I hope this is helpful to those considering this little toy.
Let me know if there's anything you want me to test.

[bluegrass]

A couple questions. What is the H to V ratio of this little unit? Is it the same ratio as the one built on to the camera? Is this unit any bigger than the one built onto the camera? Just curious, does B&H have a large and impressive store? Is their sales staff helpful and courteous?

I can see the usefulness of a detached monitor when it is impossible to see the small LCD on the camera but you can point the LCD downward when the camera is up a foot or so above your head on a tripod, so I question whether it is that much help in that situation. Perhaps if it is truly much bigger than the built in LCD, than it would be useful. Certainly the resolution isn't enough to help with focusing but at $40, it could be just fun to have and mess with.

[Mal]

...does B&H have a large and impressive store? Is their sales staff helpful and courteous?


The B&H store is a MUST-visit for anyone who goes to NYC; great store, and I've always been impressed with the help I got there (although I have heard complaints in that respect, but I don't share that experience).

This is a low-rez, 3.5" displaythat can record and playback.
For $40 it is INSANE I tell you; INSANE! :)

(I bought 5....)

[alanz]

Mal,

I considered buying another one too... for the price of a battery (if you could find one), you'd get another unit.

[alanz]

Here's a photo of the x2400 next to the hv20
Note that the entire image is there, but the aspect ration is taller than the LCD on the hv20.

Also, the x2400 image is slightly darker than the camera's LCD (I don't see a way to adjust that, but perhaps there is a way)

http://www.zenreich.com/ZenWeb/video/images/x2400_hv20_6x.jpg

[bluegrass]

I just ordered 3 but not for use with my camera. A small portable device to play sample video and photos that I can carry in my pocket can come in handy. I bought extras for presents later.

[attowatt]

Nice review alanz,

Is it possible to use strictly as a monitor, as in not recording to the 2800?

Is the battery life 3.5 hour?

Is there an "external dc" input to use a separate dc source?

Thanks,
Jim

[shenzo]

Great discovery! Ordered one! Good news is that the model is PAL & NTSC and I am in the US right now...!:hv20-smilie45:

[alanz]

Yes, you can use it as a monitor (that's what I'm intending to do).
You simply go to the AV Recorder menu choice (which immediately starts showing any video input on the screen), and *don't* press the record button.

I don't know how long the battery will last... not yet <s>

The AC charger put out 5 volts 2 amp to charge the 3.7 volt lithium ion battery though a small coaxial charging port. So it shouldn't be difficult to rig up an external battery pack.

[koolpenguin89]

wow, when i brought this up, i had no idea all you guys would go so crazy for it. i havent bought one yet (dont have the HV20 yet...hopefully january) but i will definantly be buying for myself one. im glad your all enjoying them.

dylan

[attowatt]

Thanks alanz... only thing now is the "slightly darker" display adjustment. :hv20-smilie110:

[koolpenguin89]

Also, if anyone was looking for a way to mount this to the hv20, i think ive figured out a good way. Simply buy one of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHOE-MOUNT-3-On-Camera-LCD-Mount-LCD4Video_W0QQitemZ180170394703QQihZ008QQcategoryZ 21517QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://i22.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/99/97/5ae3_2.JPG

And Glue a 1/4" bolt to te back of the monitor. Then you can mount it to the cameras shoe, or a shoe on a flash bracket. Just a thought

[alanz]

My original tests coupled only the video signal to the x2400. I just tried again with all three lines connected.

Here's a photo of the (one piece, color coded) Radio Shack In-Line Triple Phono Plug Coupler (part #274-898) connecting the HV20 and x2400 AV cables (plugged into each device with the 3.5mm plugs).

http://www.zenreich.com/ZenWeb/video/images/x2400_hv20_coupler.jpg

One thing I found out very quickly is that you have to turn off the external speaker on the x2400, or you'll get feedback.

The other thing is that because the hv20 av/headphone port is in use by the av cable, any headphone needs to be attached to the av/headphone port of the x2400. You can adjust volume on the x2400, but it's likely that I should find the volume setting on the x2400 that matches the volume of the hv20. However, I do find myself watching the db scale in the viewfinder as a way of monitoring the sound level, so the actual volume at the earphones is probably not that important.

[David B.]

does anyone know if you can flip the image for adapters

[Mal]

Yes you can; by flipping the monitor up-side-down!
:)

[Waidar]

Will this one - the x2400 - be compatible with the PAL version of the HV20?

[koolpenguin89]

No, its an NTSC system

[Casey Pegram]

I got one of these and it's... okay. Certainly just having it as a video/mp3 player is kinda cool, with a nice screen for watching stuff. As an HV20 monitor though, I think it's a little too low-res for judging critical focus, and if you take it outside during the day it's almost useless because of the glare. I'm still glad I got one though, just don't expect miracles. Still saving up for an Ikan or a Marshall...

[zcream]

Just about to get 3 myself - price has gone up to 54.95 though..Just to confirm that this is indeed PAL AND NTSC input ??

[zcream]

Hi! Just to confirm, have you tried to see if the x2400 can play or record 576i PAL signals ?
Could not find details on the tech specs..


Great discovery! Ordered one! Good news is that the model is PAL & NTSC and I am in the US right now...!:hv20-smilie45:

[koolpenguin89]

i dont think so, it specifies ntsc http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/pwr2thepenguins/screen2.jpg

[thewinelake]

Interesting stuff, guys! That's quite an amazing price (even the higher one). I suppose that the Archos 504 would be a rich man's version (4.3" screen, 16:9). I was also wondering if it would be possible to do something to enable the iPhone to be a viewfinder. I guess a little PC with Firewire input could send the output over wifi (once the SDK's out, I suspect the software for the iPhone would be easy - one could probably use a VNC client), but a "little PC" isn't going to be that small or cheap. An Asus eee with firewire in would be the sort of thing to have, I suppose. What a shame camcorders don't do bluetooth monitoring output...

[koolpenguin89]

What a shame camcorders don't do bluetooth monitoring output...

ive been saying that for years.....lol

[zcream]

There was a post by Shenzo. It said that it was NTSC and PAL. Maybe it takes PAL input though it says it does not ...
Hoping...


i dont think so, it specifies ntsc http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/pwr2thepenguins/screen2.jpg

[mattias]

i use an archos. it has a great screen that actually works quite well in daylight. downsides are that it has a very noticeable latency, making it hard to track fast motion, that it only has a built in battery and when that's empty you're toast, and that it's composite in only. you do get component in if you use the docking station though, so it shouldn't be impossible to diy hack a cable.

it works ok for focusing if you use the focus assist zoom, otherwise it's not an option since there's no peaking, which in my opinion is more important that pixel count. i usually use the built in screen for focusing, and the archos for framing the otherwise upside down image.

/matt

[koolpenguin89]

well maybe he could shed some light on this, but how would he know if he hadnt bought it yet?

dylan

[jackinthebox]

For a "Medium Definition" monitor like the Ikan V8000HD at a quarter of the price:

7" Lilliput 800x480 VGA monitor (http://cgi.ebay.com/Lilliput-7-Touch-screen-TFT-LCD-VGA-CAR-PC-MONITOR-619_W0QQitemZ370019890167QQihZ024QQcategoryZ3698QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Component to VGA adapter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/303609-REG/Canon_9270A001_LVCA32_Component_to_VGA.html)

Original thread (http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=7012)

[mattias]

so is it confirmed that the lilliput handles interlaced vga signals? not all monitors do and you can't switch the hv20 component out to progressive afaik. all this adapter does is generate the proper vga sync signals, it's still 720x576/480 50/60i.

/matt

[zcream]

Can I get a dummies version of the post ?
Which Archos model is it ?
Also, what does this mean - "since there's no peaking, which in my opinion is more important that pixel count"?

:-) Sorry


i use an archos. it has a great screen that actually works quite well in daylight. downsides are that it has a very noticeable latency, making it hard to track fast motion, that it only has a built in battery and when that's empty you're toast, and that it's composite in only. you do get component in if you use the docking station though, so it shouldn't be impossible to diy hack a cable.

it works ok for focusing if you use the focus assist zoom, otherwise it's not an option since there's no peaking, which in my opinion is more important that pixel count. i usually use the built in screen for focusing, and the archos for framing the otherwise upside down image.

/matt

[zcream]

Ditto that! Its not that easy, the TTL levels are also probably different. Has anyone tried to actually use a VGa to component adapter with the Lilliput monitors ??


so is it confirmed that the lilliput handles interlaced vga signals? not all monitors do and you can't switch the hv20 component out to progressive afaik. all this adapter does is generate the proper vga sync signals, it's still 720x576/480 50/60i.

/matt

[jackinthebox]

so is it confirmed that the lilliput handles interlaced vga signals? not all monitors do and you can't switch the hv20 component out to progressive afaik. all this adapter does is generate the proper vga sync signals, it's still 720x576/480 50/60i.

/matt

This guy used the lilliput 619 successfully:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/archive/index.php/t-103949.html

Although he did use this (http://www.x2vga.com/product) instead of a passive cable adapter. It's about the same price, actually. I'd like to find out if the canon cable is enough, eliminating the need to power another device in the field.

[mattias]

"since there's no peaking, which in my opinion is more important that pixel count"?
it simply means that it doesn't have peaking and i want peaking. if you don't know what peaking is you have a very cool and extremely useful new thing to discover in your hv20 menu. dig into it.

/matt

[mattias]

he did use this (http://www.x2vga.com/product) instead of a passive cable adapter

sure, that's a no brainer. the question isn't whether the lilliput supports vga or not, i mean it does have a vga port, but does it support interlaced vga, i.e. via the passive cable? ;-)

thanks for the heads up though. nice to see what people are up to.

/matt

[jackinthebox]

After careful consideration, I don't think the canon cable I posted has anything to do with Component YPbPr. It most likely has everything to do with Component RGB. If it converted from YPbPr to RGBHV VGA, it would need some kind of circuit to separate the sync signal and extract the RGB channels and thus would require external power. I could be wrong, but I think Mayflash unit that guy in the dvxuser forum used is the only way to go.

[mattias]

oh, i thought the hv20 had rgb component, i guess because of the color of the included cables, but after some googling it seems like you're right. the "passive" cabe won't work then. too bad.

/matt

[koolpenguin89]

Grrr, i finally whent to order the x2400 that i suggested in this thread a couple months back (hadnt needed it until now), and all was fine, until i waited one day to purchase, and then when i go to check out, i see this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/497468-REG/RCA_X2400_X2400_Lyra_Personal_Multimedia.html)! Im so pissed, who knows when it theyll have it again, it could be months! And i cant find any other small monitors for this price. :(

Dylan

[koolpenguin89]

Gah, and now its discontinued!!! Would anyone be willing to sell theirs?

Dylan

[xbourque]

For semi-cheap small LCD monitoring options, check out this site:

http://lcdtft.com/index.asp


Also, just a few notes about resolution and focusing.

First, dont forget the useful "FOCUS ASSIST" button (the "STOP" button on the LCD). This is the easiest way to "double" the resolution of any monitor. (It's a shame that the camera doesn't do "peaking" on the video output though as this would beat raw resolution hands down).

Second, if you are stuck with a monitor that has only NTSC composite inputs, you can use the luminance output of the compnent cable instead of the composite cable.

The image will be black and white, but at least you won't have all the dot crawl associated with composite.

To do this, first set the component resolution to 480i in the camera menus. Then, plug the GREEN output of the component cable that came with the HV20 and plug it into the composite input (usually YELLOW) of your monitor.

An added bonus is that this frees the AV/Headphones output for actual headphones. Or, if audio monitoring is not useful to you, you can plug both to your monitor (if it has 2 inputs) and switch between the 2 inputs for color/crappy composite and black & white, less crappy component.

If your LCD TV/Monitor has a "sharpness" control, try to crank it all the way up to emulate peaking. Combined with the "focus assist" function, it might be enough to focus properly.

Another thing I've been thinking about is that you could use the luminance of the 1080i component output and feed it to the RGB pins of a VGA cable to have a poor man's YPrPb to VGA converter. Again, this means black and white only, but if resolution is all that you are after... The only thing I'm not sure about is how a typical computer monitor will react to a 1920x1080 *interlaced* signal...

-- Xavier

[koolpenguin89]

Thanks for the link xbourque. Those are a little out of my price range though. The appeal of the lyra was its small size, largeish screen, and low cost ($50). Im just going to order the full kit from LCD4VIDEO.com.

Dylan

[den59]

They got nice prices, I think, the only problem (for me) is that the do only
"Mirror Image ’Horizontal’ Flip", so u will have to pug monitor upside down to have proper picture?

[kruzer]

I got a bunch of links here for LCD monitors.
Anyone bought these?

http://www.bargain-camera.com/store/product.php?productid=16254&cat=273&page=1
http://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/v7000/index.htm

This one I really like but has no housing and it's a kit.
http://lcdtft.com/Detail.asp?Product_ID=006.510_LCD7XL
looks like it has good rez.
What's your opinion?


http://lcdtft.com/Detail.asp?Product_ID=006.510_LCD7XL

[den59]

As far as I find out now, they wont work to manual focus with DOF adapter since the resolution is too low. There is also a marketing trick with 1440x234 pixels, which means actual resolution 1440/3 (or something) - they count it together for each channel...
Otherwise, if it is only for framing, should work...

Cheers,
Denis


I got a bunch of links here for LCD monitors.
Anyone bought these?

http://www.bargain-camera.com/store/product.php?productid=16254&cat=273&page=1
http://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/v7000/index.htm

This one I really like but has no housing and it's a kit.
http://lcdtft.com/Detail.asp?Product_ID=006.510_LCD7XL
looks like it has good rez.
What's your opinion?


http://lcdtft.com/Detail.asp?Product_ID=006.510_LCD7XL