Are all 35mm adapters blurry and dark?

[redbird_is]

I own an HV20, and have been researching long and hard about what type of 35mm setup to get (I want some basic DOF to get a "film-look").


The only thing is for nearly every video I see online that was shot with an HV20 + 35mm adapter, the foreground is not crisp at all. Everything looks quite blurry and dark (almost like a super 8 camera).

One example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a4meHVNpDQ&feature=related


The only video I've ever seen with crystal clear picture + a 35mm DOF adapter is this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw5s3CvvDko



The DSLR's are looking very tempting, however given that I already have an HV20 I want to try and make things work. DOF aside, the HV20 shoots incredibly crisp picture.


The adapter I'm specifically looking at buying is from Brevis, used for $300.


So that begs the question. Do all 35mm adapters make video blurry and dark?

[Erik Bien]

Hi redbird, and welcome to the forum!

In my experience, a properly set-up Brevis gives bright, clear, sharp results. See for example this thread (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?11213-HV30-and-Brevis35-MP.1-Excellent).

[drapeama]

Here's another forum user-made 35mm adapter (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?31960-Kiwi35-Spinning-Adapter&highlight=kiwi35) (kiwi35) that I used to shot this video:

http://vimeo.com/19642240

Otherwise, a static adapter on which I cleaned the focusing screen using paint thinner, here's how it looks:

http://vimeo.com/24806498
The result is, to my taste, quite good. Gives an interesting look.

Here's some pictures (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?31960-Kiwi35-Spinning-Adapter&p=375750&viewfull=1#post375750).
Some other videos (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?31960-Kiwi35-Spinning-Adapter&p=408425&viewfull=1#post408425).

If you're using a good achromat (quality built) and if the GG is well aligned and at the right distance, provided your adapter is made with a good quality GG, you should get something very clean. Never as DSLRs, but a more organic look and something very unique lookin'. But if you're looking for something crystal clear, you might want to move to DSLR.

[redbird_is]

Thanks guys, very helpful.


After seeing the videos, this brings up another question:

Regarding the frame rate, my assumption was that it's better to film at 30 fps (in case you need to add in any slow motion for example), and then compile the final edited project in 24 fps using something like Adobe Premiere.

Would you recommend shooting at 24 fps in both situations (with & without 35mm adapter)?

[drapeama]

Would you recommend shooting at 24 fps in both situations (with & without 35mm adapter)?

If you plan to render at 24p, yes. If you know you'll use some footage especially for slow-motion (read: not "the film-look") then just shoot 30p/60i depending on your slow-motion workflow/method. But whatever you do, don't mix both fps for regular speed, unless it's intended that way : home-recording footage within the movie, as example.
If you prefer the look of 30p over 24p (being a little more fluid for action/fast movements) then just shoot everything 30p, just don't mix the fps.

[redbird_is]

If you plan to render at 24p, yes. If you know you'll use some footage especially for slow-motion (read: not "the film-look") then just shoot 30p/60i depending on your slow-motion workflow/method. But whatever you do, don't mix both fps for regular speed, unless it's intended that way : home-recording footage within the movie, as example.
If you prefer the look of 30p over 24p (being a little more fluid for action/fast movements) then just shoot everything 30p, just don't mix the fps.

Would Blu-ray and computer playback (not on the web) be the only means to view the true 24p movie? With all other modes, don't you need to convert back to 29.9 fps when rendering?

Does video shot in 24p and then converted to 29.9 fps have a better "film look" than video shot originally at 30p/60i?

[drapeama]

Would Blu-ray and computer playback (not on the web) be the only means to view the true 24p movie? With all other modes, don't you need to convert back to 29.9 fps when rendering?
Does video shot in 24p and then converted to 29.9 fps have a better "film look" than video shot originally at 30p/60i?
1) No, it's not the onlky way. If your monitor is set to 60hz or 75hz, your video will still playback at 24hz (24pfs) but each frame will be played 2.5x for 60hz and 3.12x for 75hz. The real true way to watch 24p would be to plug your monitor with an HDMI cable and set it to 24hz, same applies for your TV with a blu-ray player.
2) No, you don't need to convert to 29.976fps. As I mentionned, the player (media player/quick time/VLC player) will play each frame in a multiple of the display's refreshing rate (hertz).
3) Well, in fact, when you watch a movie on DVD, the original framerate is 23.976fps but your player read the video's flag and add the missing frame in order to play it at 29.976fps for compliency playback. Even if 23.976 is part of the DVD specs, it still needs to be played at 29.976fps. Most players can do it, but older players (around 2000) won't be able to play it unless the video is flagged or, 29.976fps encoded. DVD specs here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video#Frame_size_and_frame_rate) and info about pulldown here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#Frame_rate_differences). All that to say, as you're using an HV20, what you could do would be to shot PF24 (which is 23.976fps wrapped in a 60i container) and edit as 60i (29.976fps interlaced). That way, it'll look more film-like and will be compliant with every standards. That would be the most simple way. Other than this, you can remove the pulldown of your videos before you edit them, and use a 24p timeline to do the edit, then render at 24p (23.976fps) directly to DVD and/or bluray. As I said, the DVD player will be able to read it and add the flags properlly. For bluray, it's already one of the compliant fps. Dependind on how hard you want to work on the videos, leaving all PF24 would be simpler and still looks more "film-like" than just 60i.