Flip "Hack" for HV20 LCD [Archive] - High Definition Digital Video Forum

tgtn

2007 May 28th, 19:27

I will! This a major breakthrough. One of the most hassles of owning an adapter is not being able to see the image on the LCD correctly. It doesn't matter if you invert the camera, the image on the LCD will still be inverted. It's the nature of the adapter. With this, I invert the camera so it captures to tape properly plus I can see the image right side up! This is unbelievable.

I just tried it 2 minutes ago and it works. I just have to figure out how to be able to switch it back and forth without opening the plastic cover all the time.

Thank you for the link Forwardlooker.

ForwardLooker

2007 May 28th, 20:19

No problem tgtn, I think its a great hack to as I also have a 35mm adapter, I just dont wont to make a mistake and damage anything.
It's definetly alot cheaper and obviously less compact than haveing an external LCD setup.

tgtn

2007 May 28th, 22:41

ForwardLooker

2007 May 29th, 02:37

tgtn, how hard was it to get the cover off?

I tried this hack when Dennis discovered it for the Panasonic GS400 but couldnt even get the cover off.

tgtn

2007 May 29th, 03:14

Easy. They are just tabs you push down with a small screw driver. You will notice some spacing going on once you've push far enough. Then just pull the cover right out. Just be careful not to slip, you might scratch your LCD.

I am going to be adventurous on this because I think the switch is a reverse mini breaker, when you press down it connects the pos and neg and then when you release the connection is disrupted, which means you can build an external switch outside the camera to switch on and off.

I have already taken off the original switch and will patch two thin wires, one pos, one neg, that will be passed through the cover through a small hole I will drill on it and then attach the wires to a small push button switch which I can then velcro to the outside of the cam. I just have to figure out how to do the horizontal switch, which is turned on and off when you close the LCD. I don't know what workaround I will have for this.

I will post pics next week, if I don't break this thing first.

ForwardLooker

2007 May 29th, 05:22

wow, yeh let me know how u get on.

nyvz

2007 June 8th, 18:41

tgtn, any luck with that? im working on making a mini switch isnt so much external but is housed right under/inside that little cover that you pop out to access the switch.

DangerZone

2007 July 8th, 00:10

That's amazing!

chimneybrothers

2007 July 8th, 14:27

I've been wondering about the whole flip situation. When you are using the adapter, you say the image is flipped on the LCD, but its not flipped when it's captured? And what is the degree of the flip? is it mirrored/upside down/both?

Im awaiting parts for my adapter, so im just wondering what to expect.

Worley

2007 July 8th, 14:56

The flip is a 180 degree rotation. So, flipped both horizontally and vertically.

chimneybrothers

2007 July 8th, 15:01

ok ok thanks

i take it then that i was right about it not capturing flipped?

Worley

2007 July 9th, 01:55

The footage IS rotated when captured, so yo have to rotate it again during editing. Otherwise your footage is upside down. What you see on the LCD is what you get on your computer.

Hope that helps.

um3k

2007 July 9th, 15:12

If I'm not mistaken, mounting the camera upside-down will result in the footage being right-side-up.

XFR

2007 July 9th, 15:17

If I'm not mistaken, mounting the camera upside-down will result in the footage being right-side-up.
Yep, but the LCD itself is upside-down then :hv20-smilie03:

um3k

2007 July 9th, 16:10

Yep, but the LCD itself is upside-down then :hv20-smilie03:

I thought that was what the "flip hack" was supposed to fix. Before you discount what I said, try it. You may be surprised. Or I may be wrong. We'll only know if someone tries it.

XFR

2007 July 9th, 16:52

Yeah, if you use the flip hack it will show the right side up if the camera is mounted upside down. I thought you meant that the LCD would show the right way up if the camera was upside down (without the flip hack).
But with the camera mounted upside down, the LCD is at the right side of the cam... so that's a new problem.
Upside down is what I prefer, but a good quality external monitor/viewfinder is pretty expensive...

chimneybrothers

2007 July 9th, 17:42

i dont know about the whole mounting the camera upside down. does someone have a picture of how to do it securely? But i dont think id mind flipping things in FCP.

CBarce

2007 July 9th, 23:35

See how I did it at post 45 in this thread:

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=8&page=2

twoneil

2007 July 25th, 18:30

I received my HV20 today and I just can't wait, I did the flip lcd on my new HV20; successfully. I just taped the switch with masking tape and put it right back in. The case is very easy to open but putting the tape takes longer. I used a pair of tweezers and small nail cutters to accomplish this.

I personally don't like to flip the image on post, it takes more time on an already time consuming HD video. Besides the HV20 doesn't look bad, it's almost symmetrical.

Also be aware that your viewfinder will also be turned on with the lcd; so some battery power will be lost.

Jerry Lee

2007 September 11th, 12:31

Open My HV20 for LCD image Flip. :hv20-smilie03:

Easy to open & Easy to put it back together

twoneil

2007 September 11th, 14:44

Jerry,
what wires inside should I connect (easily) to flip the image of the LCD 'permanently'.

I damaged the vertical switch and cut them off, so I need to trace the two wires inside the HV20 and join them together. (I don't have a solder so maybe i'll tie them with a wire)

bluegrass

2007 September 11th, 14:54

Open My HV20 for LCD image Flip. :hv20-smilie03:

Easy to open & Easy to put it back together

For who?

I hope I don't ever see my camera looking like these pictures or it will never work again.

Jerry Lee

2007 September 11th, 15:19

Jerry,
what wires inside should I connect (easily) to permanently flip the image of the LCD 'permanently'.

I damaged the vertical switch and cut them off, so I need to trace the two wires inside the HV20 and join them together. (I don't have a solder so maybe i'll tie them with a wire)

twoneil,
You need use the (20w) solder .
I use my old ATA Hard driver Cable , split 4 wire

If only open LCD side cap do the flip hack , you are easy damaged the "vertical switch".... so I open the Body solder 4 wire to the body outside & solder to 2 switch .

Now I have :
Flip LCD switch on My HV20 ...is done
Canon ESO extension tubes x 2
Step- down ring form 60mm - 58 mm x 1
Canon Es-A focusing screen x 1
Nikon D (erd dot) focusing screen x 1

I have HVX100A & HVX200 ,Redrock M2 system , HV20 . I want to try DIY (from Daniel gg-holder )

sorry My english is not good.

Jerry Lee

2007 October 26th, 11:34

[QUOTE=HalD]
Jerry,
Interesting pictures. I want to remove the door over the AV/headphone plug. How is it held in the camera?
It would be cool if you could post some pictures of the sequence of taking the shell off.
Cheers

Jerry Lee

2007 October 26th, 13:11

Hello Guys ,

My HV20 LCD image Flip is Done.

HalD

2007 October 26th, 13:28

Jerry Lee

2007 October 26th, 14:07

Jerry; Thanks for the pictures of the A/V door attachment. It looks like you either have to put up with a dangling door when using a mic and headphones, or, drill holes in the door large enough to pass the mic and headphones plugs, or, snip the hinge off the door with diag. cutters and put the door in a drawer.
Cheers,
Hal

HalD ,

The Photo just show the "Canon HV20 original" How to lock A/V door hinge
I am not drill holes .
If you can Open your HV20 "DIY Extend Cut off May be enough you need.
If you don't want to Open your HV20 ... You need snip the hinge off the door .

wolferic

2007 October 26th, 17:25

Hello Guys ,

My HV20 LCD image Flip is Done.

Jerry, that is truly beautiful... just a day late! I tried to do the flip trick without taking the casing off and now I can't re-seat the switch.

Your work looks really good. When I am brave enough I will try the same. Thanks again for sharing.

HalD

2007 October 26th, 22:41

Jerry; Looking at your last picture gave me an idea on how I might solve the 'dangling door'. Instead of just enlarging the slot (you show red) I might continue the cut all the way through on one side. then it could be pulled out all the way and later pushed back in to make a normal door.
I'm going to try it.
cheers.

Jerry Lee

2007 October 27th, 00:54

If you Open HV20, even remove the battery .Still Have "HIGH VOLT" inside.

pandarelated

2007 October 31st, 16:22

so, here's what bothers me. as is, when i turn the hv20 over. so its upside down. the screen shows things right side up. does this "fix" that? or does it flip the image so when your camera is right side up. the image (on screen) is now upside down? is one of those switches one that would keep the screen image upside down if i flipped the camera over? make sense?

tvr

Duke

2007 November 25th, 21:56

Hello Guys ,

My HV20 LCD image Flip is Done.

Hi Jerry,

When you installed the dip switches on top and wired them to the base of the existing internal switches? If so, does that mean when you turn the new dip switches off, it goes back to working the way it did originally? :hv20-smilie03:

Duke

funkg

2007 November 26th, 02:32

I'm assuming you disabled the original switches permanently? or at least fixed them in an off position? This mod is so tempting!

butterflies

2007 November 28th, 10:49

Open My HV20 for LCD image Flip. :hv20-smilie03:

Easy to open & Easy to put it back together

Jerry,
Would you think that I can remove the glass and focus body? I want to see the sensor directly.
Rob

butterflies

2007 November 28th, 15:11

Would it be possible to remove the glass? I need to see the sensor directly, with nothing in front of it.

Jerry Lee

2007 November 30th, 03:19

Hi Jerry,

When you installed the dip switches on top and wired them to the base of the existing internal switches? If so, does that mean when you turn the new dip switches off, it goes back to working the way it did originally? :hv20-smilie03:

Duke

wired them to the base of the existing internal switches?---> yes

when you turn the new dip switches off, it goes back to working the way it did originally?------------Yes .

Jerry

Jerry Lee

2007 November 30th, 03:23

I'm assuming you disabled the original switches permanently? or at least fixed them in an off position? This mod is so tempting!

No need to disabled the original switches .

Jerry

Jerry Lee

2007 November 30th, 04:14

2P DIP Swtich

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-4-6-8-position-DIP-switch-35pcs_W0QQitemZ230195392602QQihZ013QQcategoryZ5816 9QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Jerry Lee

2007 November 30th, 04:41

Jerry,
Would you think that I can remove the glass and focus body? I want to see the sensor directly.
Rob

I didn't remove this part before. If you have the courage,Of course,you can try it!

Jerry

will

2007 December 2nd, 17:58

Broke my vert and mirror switches. It's not the end of the world, since it just means that
1) when I flip the LCD 180 degrees, the image is upside down
2) when I close the LCD it doesn't turn off, so I don't think the viewfinder will turn on ever again.
3) when I flip the LCD 180 and push it back into the camera it doesn't mirror

Just a warning. The switches are very delicate, so if you try this mod do it with the understanding that there's a strong chance you will break one or both.

I'm pondering my next step. The primary issue is that the vert switch is really small, so replacing it with a custom switch is going to be hard. The other issue is that the switch rotates with the hinge, so any hard mod needs to be able to allow this unless you don't plan to close your LCD any more.

Duke

2007 December 3rd, 10:25

wired them to the base of the existing internal switches?---> yes

when you turn the new dip switches off, it goes back to working the way it did originally?------------Yes .

How did you solder the new wires to the original ribbon wires. Isn't a regular soldering gun hot enough to melt the ribbon the original switches are attached to?

Or did you use one of those electronic (cold solder) spot soldering guns that zaps them in a tiny spot?

Any idea what gauge wire you used?

Thanks,
Duke

funkg

2007 December 3rd, 13:46

Jerry, can you point to the screws needed to remove the side panel to access the switches? That would be so awesome if you did!

Thanks!

Jerry Lee

2007 December 4th, 11:30

How did you solder the new wires to the original ribbon wires. Isn't a regular soldering gun hot enough to melt the ribbon the original switches are attached to?

Or did you use one of those electronic (cold solder) spot soldering guns that zaps them in a tiny spot?

Any idea what gauge wire you used?

Thanks,
Duke

Duke ,
Is not solder to the original "ribbon wires", Is solder to original swtich solder point (yellow arrow).
I use Old ATA Hard driver Cable , split 4 wire
see Attach Files.

Jerry

Jerry Lee

2007 December 4th, 11:45

Jerry, can you point to the screws needed to remove the side panel to access the switches? That would be so awesome if you did!

Thanks!

Funkg, If you want to remove the side panel (LCD panel ) .You have to open
HV20 Body..
I need go to sleep now ... some other day I will take some photo show
how many screws needed to remove

Jerry

Jerry Lee

2007 December 4th, 11:52

Daniel gg-holder is Very Good !!

Jerry

sixty_cycle_hum

2007 December 17th, 21:53

I just finished this mod after about 3 hours of very delicate work.

THIS MOD IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART!

My camera is only a few days old. Thank God I didn't wreck it, because my wife would have castrated me. :hv20-smilie15:

No worries though... I have the leads poking out near the viewfinder. Everything is working! I just have to decide where to put my tiny switches.

If you do attempt this mod, please take your time and heed the warning about the flash capacitor. It doesn't feel good. :eek:

eoprod

2007 December 26th, 11:22

Hi Jerry

I recently found your post about fliping HV20.

Seems to work on vertical flip,
but the horizontal switch on my HV20 works only when I reverse the lcd close to the camcorder, otherwise the switch you show on pic is only an on/off for the LCD and the viewfinder, are u agree with this ?

mattias

2007 December 27th, 14:38

so to permanently flip the image i just short the switches? i'm definitely going to try this. thanks for breaking the ground.

/matt

eoprod

2007 December 31st, 12:08

CJ2008

2008 January 15th, 10:37

Hi,

Since the HV20 is so small, wouldn't it be easier to just mount it upside down like the M2 people suggested with their prototype shoulder rig? Wouldn't that take care of the flip problem?

mattias

2008 January 15th, 12:27

Since the HV20 is so small, wouldn't it be easier to just mount it upside down like the M2 people suggested with their prototype shoulder rig? Wouldn't that take care of the flip problem?
take your camera, turn it upside down. does the image on the lcd flip? i didn't think so. :-)

/matt

CJ2008

2008 January 15th, 12:29

Yes, right. It only solves the problem of correcting the image for recording or viewing it on a external monitor.

BlueDot

2008 January 17th, 02:40

Is there anyone doing these mods for neophytes like moi?

ODDNAME

2008 January 19th, 08:00

Could someone describe how to get the hingecover off?
I can "de-click" the 2 snappers that are visible, but after that I dont really get how to de-click the other 2, and bend with force seems wrong.

wilddog915

2008 February 2nd, 20:11

Ok
I did the flip today.
A scary experience when you re in, but afterall not so complicated.
An advice , note the positions of each screw, you can draw a scheme to help.
There are a lot of screws to remove.
You need to remove the plastic above the viewfinder at the back of the camera ( 2 screws near the battery place ), It will afford to disengage the topcover of the camera which is the start to access all the screws.

another thing, I noticed that this is the combination of the 2 switchs which will give the good flip ( horizontal and vertical )
at the beginning, my lcd was black, but after playing with the 2 switchs and finding the right order to switch, it has worked perfectly

trhanks a lot Jerry,
I will ost footage later

Happy new year everyone.

So i did it today too! all i can say is *****! That was scary! I have to say.. thank you for the advice about drawing a scheme of all the screw! What a life save. (PLEASE DO THAT IF YOUR GONNA TAKE APART YOUR CAM)

Anyways.. works wel, except that i could not get the the vert. micro switch back in place. But its ok, i added two dip switches in parallel ontop!

Thanks

PS... i sugg. putting lots of electrical tape all over the area where the capacitor is.. i just put it over a few places.. and i felt the pain when i touched the wrong area! OUCH!

PPS . Use thin stranded wire! at least 24 or 26 Gauge, it will make your life easier.

exte

2008 February 5th, 01:15

If someone is kind enough, I'd love to have multiple step by step videos of this! Like a ten part series or something. It would be most kind!

wilddog915

2008 February 5th, 08:12

Ha, sorry, not taking apart the camera again. If you have any questions tho, ill try and help.

matthias.martin

2008 February 21st, 05:38

Open My HV20 for LCD image Flip. :hv20-smilie03:

Easy to open & Easy to put it back together

It would be very helpful, if you could tell me what parts of the outer shell need to be unscrewed first. I once tried to begin with the LCD side, but nothing seemed to come loose, so I postponed the whole matter. I suspect that I would have to first remove the tape compartment cover - could you confirm that?

wilddog915

2008 February 21st, 07:39

The first thing that has to be removed in the battery. This will reveal 2 screws that hold the view finder in place. That is the true first piece that must be removed. I believe the LCD was the last piece i could get out.

sdeming

2008 February 25th, 16:16

hmmm....I'm really tempted to try this...

wilddog915

2008 February 25th, 16:44

i would do it, but i dont wanna take that risk... You can do it, it really isnt that hard. I assume you have some knowledge and skill in soldiering and wiring, etc..?

sdeming

2008 February 25th, 17:54

totally, it's just a scary endeavor. I've done a ton of soldiering and wiring in with amplifiers and guitars, but never with a camera....:hv20-smilie15:

jackinthebox

2008 February 25th, 19:34

this voids the warranty, I take it. can't do it.

PeterC

2008 February 27th, 21:20

Is there a better way to dust seal where the dip switches are? Just cutting out a circle without a seal seems like you're exposing the HV20 to much more potential problems by leaving the internals exposed like that...

AWESOME hack, though! ;)

matthias.martin

2008 March 7th, 08:48

Ok, here comes my contribution to the flip-hack circus.
http://www.vimeo.com/759825
I hated the ugly hole like a blowhole of a whale, that you get with the DIP-switch in the usual place . (http://www.hv20.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=364&d=1193418569) And actuating that switch would even require a tool like a ballpoint pen or so. My solution here actually uses a Microcontroller. Don't laugh - i didn't find a usable mechanical latching switch anywhere. Oh, and yes, the circuit is located in the large cavity behind the imaging sensor, also known as the "dope-box" ;-).
Maybe I could make a kit and a detailed HowTo-PDF, just like Daniel does it. I mean who would want to send his hv20 to Switzerland from, like, the US for example. But as mentioned elsewhere, taking this beast apart is not for the faint of heart. But hey, maybe i should just order a bunch of HV30s and resell them modified...

PeterC

2008 March 7th, 09:01

Dude, that's sweet! Microcontrollers scare me, though, because I have no idea how they work ;) A tutorial would definitely help, though! Do you have to program the microcontroller?

den59

2008 March 13th, 06:14

Hi guys,
I'm going to buy a HV-30 and make a hack. (also i'm waiting for details for 35-mm DOF).
Real How-to-PDF would be just in-f@@ing-credible!! :) Just a step-by-step.
With the list of parts/soldering guns/microcontrollers etc you need to do it.
2Matthias: that's really coll what you have done!

den59

2008 March 13th, 06:58

Hi everyone, just couple of questions:

Does this hack fix the problem on LCD ONLY or in viewfinder/tape also?
I guess these are switches only for LCD, unfortunately. BUT, if it's true, one can switch them once (like here http://www.cinevate.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=518)
and use LCD with 35 adapter, and viewfinder without it. But the date will be written to the tape according to the viewfinder, anyway.
It is true? Does it make sense?

Best regards,
Denis

leteeci

2008 March 13th, 07:26

Ok, here comes my contribution to the flip-hack circus.
http://www.vimeo.com/759825

Hey Mattias, I saw also on vime you are using fesserplatte groundglass..
Is it just me, or it is noticable pattern on that grundglass?

Did you tried to remove hotspot with PCX or DCX lens..

As I remembered, Nikon D screen have PCX lens inside that can be removed und used elsewhere ( and B, D, R, E an K should have removable Pcx also )..

Thanks,

david

den59

2008 March 13th, 08:15

by the way, watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyVOHGT559E
interesting idea, could be very compact and safe from damaging camera....

matthias.martin

2008 March 15th, 11:35

Hey Mattias, I saw also on vime you are using fesserplatte groundglass..
Is it just me, or it is noticable pattern on that grundglass?
...
david

Yes, there is a nasty rainbow-colored honeycomb pattern in addition to the more apparent black dots. The pattern is due to the way the glass fibres are packed together and the black dots are defective fibres (i guess).
http://www.us.schott.com/fiberoptics/english/products/healthcare/xray/faceplates.html
Fibre optic gg's are a fun toy and great to build night vision gear, but simply the wrong hardware for a serious DoF-adapter.
I got my VH54x from Daniel and am in the process of putting it all together using a Canon Ee-S focusing screen. Still waiting on the circular polarizing filter and the JB-Weld. Oh, yes, and the samples from Microchip. Once those are in, i think I'll design a PCB Which I then could turn into a kit for interested individuals.

phanatik

2008 March 15th, 11:47

by the way, watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyVOHGT559E
interesting idea, could be very compact and safe from damaging camera....

I just ordered one of these prisms from ebay. Will let all know what the usage and clarity results as well as ease of use.

PeterC

2008 March 20th, 12:15

Hello Guys ,

My HV20 LCD image Flip is Done.

Couldn't the Image Flip be done with a single DPST or DPDT switch? Since toggling between image flip and regular functionality requires activating both switches every time, couldn't you just connect the contacts to both switches in the LCD to one switch with double poles?

It would also make it much easier than programming a microcontroller like matthias has done (great work, by the way) and include the function by the flipping of a single switch (instead of two small dip switches).

leteeci

2008 March 20th, 14:13

[QUOTE=matthias.martin;64914]Yes, there is a nasty rainbow-colored honeycomb pattern in addition to the more apparent black dots. The pattern is due to the way the glass fibres are packed together and the black dots are defective fibres (i guess).
http://www.us.schott.com/fiberoptics/english/products/healthcare/xray/faceplates.html
Fibre optic gg's are a fun toy and great to build night vision gear, but simply the wrong hardware for a serious DoF-adapter.

I got my VH54x from Daniel and am in the process of putting it all together using a Canon Ee-S focusing screen. Still waiting on the circular polarizing filter and the JB-Weld. [QUOTE]

Thanks for info!

Yeah, I am also just order two vh-45, and I allready have two Minolta tubes and EE-A and EE-S screens.

What kind of porizing filters do you plan to use?? I saw that those from HAMA have screw to lock the position.. would they be appropriate solution??

Cheers to all DIY-ers..

:hv20-smilie70:

Ian Lim

2008 March 20th, 23:19

Phanatik, have you try the prisms from ebay?

phanatik

2008 March 20th, 23:52

Phanatik, have you try the prisms from ebay?

yes. Just got it 2day matter of fact.

pros: 1.) It works and no loss in quality.
2.) Don't have to "do surgery on HV20"

cons: 1.) prism does not fill all screen on LCD unless u get the exact dimensions, which I didn't.
2.) the image is right side up but it is flipped horizontally, which isn't that bad.
3.) have to make a holster for it to b attached to the cam/LCD.

Overall, it works and u can see the image. Just have some work arounds and less worries of breaking cam.

the cons are not even that bad...

but it does work. I haven't used it in the field though i will this weekend hopefull and let all know . Im also making a holster for it as well.

Ian Lim

2008 March 21st, 00:01

Thanks, phanatik! :hv20-smilie77:

Another questions, how much weight is the prism? also, can you point the ebay link where you bought this stuff?

den59

2008 March 21st, 06:32

Hi,

The prism could be found at e-bay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBX:IT&item=120231946905&_trksid=p3984.cALLBUY.m311.lVI

Donno what's exactly the dimensions of LCD, but should work...

Maybe it's easier to build a full-flip optically from LCD rather then having it between adapter and a camera.
Have a look this thread: http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=7085 and
these prisms:
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/b1025.html
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l1747.html

Cheers,
Denis

phanatik

2008 March 21st, 09:19

Thanks, phanatik! :hv20-smilie77:

Another questions, how much weight is the prism? also, can you point the ebay link where you bought this stuff?

The prism weighs the amount of a cell phone... maybe less. Bout a pound/ pound and a half. The link den59 points to is exactly where I got mine from. SurplusShed. What might even be better is that u measure the width exactly and height of the LCD, go to their site or call them and request prism with those dimensions. Bottom line is it works. I'm gonna make a case/holder today and will take pics.

Ian Lim

2008 March 21st, 09:52

Thanks a lot guys! Will buy the prism later. :hv20-smilie77:

Dannysuru

2008 March 21st, 14:40

I read the entire thread and am surprised no one mentioned what I use
A 1$ hinge mirror attached by rubberbands to the lcd!
works great and is cheap /light
only thing is it doesnt flig left to right

buzzmeekz

2008 March 21st, 15:46

I read the entire thread and am surprised no one mentioned what I use
A 1$ hinge mirror attached by rubberbands to the lcd!
works great and is cheap /light
only thing is it doesnt flig left to right

Could you show pictures?

Dannysuru

2008 March 21st, 22:01

Quote: Could you show pictures?

sure .
but im busy and dont know how to upload pics to hv20 forum yet! LOL
so check them out here
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=31423&id=629937014

the photos are without 35mm adapter attached hence,lcd image is upside down
hope this help
just noticed I really need to paint it Black!lol

Avene

2008 March 23rd, 21:36

I'm considering doing the full flip hack here, possibly tomorrow while my wife's at work. I won't even tell her about it for obvious reasons! I've had the camera for almost a year, so my one year warranty is just about up.

Now as far as I can gather, the biggest concern is the electrical shock. So I really need to cover that whole area of camera with electrical tape. That will definitely stop it? I'll be very careful not to touch that area anyway.

The other tricky part I gather would be pulling it apart and keeping track of where every screw goes. I've taken gear apart before, but nothing this small. So best to start with the 2 two screws under the viewfinder... Any idea what part would be best to unscrew after that? I'll be sure to take photos as I go along, and if all goes well I'll put together a PDF tutorial guide once i'm done.

Lastly the soldering and switch part. I'm assuming I need a fine tip soldering iron, but does it have to be at any particular temperature? My soldering iron doesn't have a temperature adjustment. Also, the solder needs to be the same type that Jerry used? For the switch, I'm going to see what's available at my local electronics store. If I can find a tiny enough DPST or DPDT I might try that, but will also buy a dip switch incase that doesn't work. Having it on the top of the camera isn't a concern for me. I'm not familiar with micro controllers though.

Any additional tips here before I begin would be much appreciated!

Dannysuru

2008 March 24th, 00:56

Avene I suggest you ask(not tell) your wife with some flowers first!
WHY?
1.The most important thing about the full flip hack is that YOU TAKE YOUR TIME!
do it right and dont force anything before your wife gets home

2.because sees gonna find out anyway

3.If your going to take a photo Log and your wife needs to use the camera or PC she might get a nasty surprise

I been trying to find a thread I read about a guy who takes the whole camera body apart and give pics!This actually looks like the best and safest way to do it with out breaking you small camera parts and it has a switch to revert back to normal LCD operation
if I find it ill give u the link

Dannysuru

2008 March 24th, 01:02

OK I FOUND IT !
the guys name is Jerry Lee (a brave genius)
you really should read this whole thread

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=429&highlight=lcd+switch&page=2

Avene

2008 March 24th, 07:47

Hi Danny, that`s this thread, isn`t it? Anyway, yes, I`ve seen all Jerry`s photos and wouldn`t even be thinking about doing this if I hadn`t seen those :) I`ll have them all open as a reference when I do it.

My wife shouldn`t be too concerned. I`ll show her what I`ve done once the job is complete. Then explain that I`ll no longer need the Manfrotto Magic Arm that used to hold the 7" LCD, so I can then sell that on ebay. Anything that brings in a few extra dollars is good :)

mattias

2008 March 24th, 10:39

Now as far as I can gather, the biggest concern is the electrical shock
not by far. it's very easy to avoid and if it still happens it's harmless (i've "tried" it many times, though not with the hv20 per se). worry about the actual mod instead.

/matt

Dannysuru

2008 March 24th, 10:46

LOL LOL ha ha !!
Someone hit me with a hammer !yes its page 2 of this thread!I read so many forum threads I get confused where i read stuff
Anyway glad u found Mr lee,s ideas and photos.And Good Luck!
let us know how things go and if u get stuck I geuss u could PM jerry since he's been dwn this road before

Avene

2008 March 25th, 08:06

Haha, yeah it gets like that at times :)

Ok, I installed it and didn't kill my camera! So I'm pretty happy. I just made a bit of a mess of the switch though.. But it works, so that's the main thing. Might try a different switch tomorrow.

The hazardous capacitor was not a problem. I just avoided it. The biggest problem was soldering the wires in the correct position so that everything fit back in place. I had to resolder a couple of times to get that done. Everything was marked on a piece of paper and all screws places on there with details of where they came from and drawings in some cases which helped a lot. When I started, I wanted to keep track of everything, but it just became too much, as I didn't want to lose focus of what I was doing to take photos or write down notes.

With the microphone in the top, there's no need to unscrew it, just disconnect the cable from the camera.

There's not much else. Best way is just to follow Jerry's photos and keep a track of where the screws go. I used his wiring diagram to the switch and it worked perfectly.

Now, since I no longer need an external LCD screen flipped upside down, I no longer need the Manfrotto Magic Arm rig that used to hold that in place.. So it's now on ebay here - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320231989393&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=011
Hoping to sell it for enough to buy a Cavision hand grip and shoulder support.

Before even thinking about doing this, I was considering a Letus Mini.. But at $1200 + $400 for the rods etc.. Kind of pricey... So I'll definitely be sticking with my old SG Pro (rev 1) - the original! Came with rods as standard and can still manage a really nice looking image.

Would I perform this hack again? Yes, but only if I bought a 2nd HV20 or a HV30. There's no way I'd try it on someone elses camera.

PeterC

2008 March 25th, 08:51

Congratulations on going through that heart-wrenching mod ;)

I was wondering what switch you ended up using, a DPDT or dip switches? Also, where did you end up mounting the switch?

Thanks,
Peter

Haha, yeah it gets like that at times :)

Ok, I installed it and didn't kill my camera! So I'm pretty happy. I just made a bit of a mess of the switch though.. But it works, so that's the main thing. Might try a different switch tomorrow.

The hazardous capacitor was not a problem. I just avoided it. The biggest problem was soldering the wires in the correct position so that everything fit back in place. I had to resolder a couple of times to get that done. Everything was marked on a piece of paper and all screws places on there with details of where they came from and drawings in some cases which helped a lot. When I started, I wanted to keep track of everything, but it just became too much, as I didn't want to lose focus of what I was doing to take photos or write down notes.

With the microphone in the top, there's no need to unscrew it, just disconnect the cable from the camera.

There's not much else. Best way is just to follow Jerry's photos and keep a track of where the screws go. I used his wiring diagram to the switch and it worked perfectly.

Now, since I no longer need an external LCD screen flipped upside down, I no longer need the Manfrotto Magic Arm rig that used to hold that in place.. So it's now on ebay here - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320231989393&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=011
Hoping to sell it for enough to buy a Cavision hand grip and shoulder support.

Before even thinking about doing this, I was considering a Letus Mini.. But at $1200 + $400 for the rods etc.. Kind of pricey... So I'll definitely be sticking with my old SG Pro (rev 1) - the original! Came with rods as standard and can still manage a really nice looking image.

Would I perform this hack again? Yes, but only if I bought a 2nd HV20 or a HV30. There's no way I'd try it on someone elses camera.

Dannysuru

2008 March 25th, 09:26

Wow Fast Work
Well done and glad to know you didnt break the baby (guess your still married)
plz post pics and diagrams for future bravehearts!

Avene

2008 March 25th, 11:42

Peter, currently there's a DIL switch attached much like a DIP switch that Jerry used and in the same place. I tried to glue it in place, but made a bit of a mess with the glue gun! Nothing too serious, but it definitely wasn't a good idea. So tomorrow I'm going to remove it and put a miniature DPDT in there. It should fit, but I'll be screwing it in from the top. I really need a switch I can get to easily for any adjustments. Using the joystick with the screen flipped may take a bit of getting used to!

Danny, yeah, I wasn't too popular for putting a hole in the top of the camera :) Pics, I kind of gave up taking early on as I didn't want to upset my concentration. But enclosed is one of a few of the screws.. For some reason I was going from right to left and there were only about 5 more sections after where I got up to here.

Dannysuru

2008 March 25th, 13:07

thanks 4 the pic ,Nice one!
interesting to see that your turning Japanese (right to left)lol

Avene

2008 March 25th, 13:49

Haha, yeah I thought that too. Probably more a case of being left handed.

PeterC

2008 March 25th, 18:14

I finished my flip hack with a DPDT switch. One flip to activate both switches.

Had a few struggles but it works like a charm :hv20-smilie77:

Definitely not for the faint of heart. Half way through it, I started freaking out :eek: thinking I couldn't put it back together... good thing I took photos to help me put everything back together!

Thanks to the photos provided by Jerry Lee and garm99, I wouldn't have had the guts to open up the camera otherwise.

Peter

Avene

2008 March 26th, 11:32

Peter, that's great. Looks like you've done a better job than me! I've found a DPDT switch to use. Still need to actually get it done though.

PeterC

2008 March 26th, 11:41

The switch I got is pretty small and doesn't have mountable screws.

The other mini switches I saw at radio shack are actually quite big, especially compared to the already small size of the HV20 ;)

When you get a chance, do post pics of your setup. I'd love to see it.

Peter

phanatik

2008 March 26th, 14:44

kmwf,

how'd u get those"thirds" lines on ur screen? Whutchu use?" And what exact switch did u use?

mattias

2008 March 26th, 14:57

mattias

2008 March 26th, 15:06

how'd u get those"thirds" lines on ur screen?
i'm guessing he enabled them in the menu.

Whutchu use?
his thumb most likely.

:-)

phanatik

2008 March 26th, 15:17

i'm guessing he enabled them in the menu.

good since you always learn something new.

as I just did.

his thumb most likely.

:-)

mattias the cunning one;/

PeterC

2008 March 26th, 15:25

i thought you needed to flip it vertically first and then horizontally, since otherwise the screen thinks it's folded back normally and is turned off. how does this work with the dpdt switch? is it enough that they're flipped at the same time then i take it?

doing the flip next week. it's been delayed but that's good since you always learn something new.

/matt

You don't have to flip it vertically first. If you had two separate switches, you could activate the horizontal switch, which would turn the LCD off and then when you activate the vertical switch, the LCD will turn back on with both flips.

So, yes, everything works fine with both switches activated at the same time.

There are a few other good places to put the switch, especially with a small switch like the one I used.
1) Along the lens barrel next to the BLC button. I think that would look really nice :hv20-smilie77:
2) Right above the miniSD card port, there is a small indention for your finger to fit in to access the access door. The switch I used is small enough and inside the HV20's casing, there is a cavity right behind it (you'll know what I mean once you open the badboy up). It would be pretty "invisible" if the switch was placed here.
3) There is also space beneath the lens barrel, at the sloping section between the lens barrel and main HV20 body. The switch could be hidden there as well.

If I get another HV20, I'll definitely mount it to one of those other locations :hv20-smilie03:

Peter

PeterC

2008 March 26th, 15:33

i'm guessing he enabled them in the menu.

his thumb most likely.

:-)

as I just did.

mattias the cunning one;/

BWAHAHAHA! Too funny! :hv20-smilie110:

phanatik

2008 March 26th, 15:37

kmwf,
What exact switch did u use?

radio Shack has some but need 2 know the exact item, please, if possible. Thinkin of "hackin" my cam as well.

PeterC

2008 March 27th, 11:51

radio Shack has some but need 2 know the exact item, please, if possible. Thinkin of "hackin" my cam as well.

I got the 0.3A, 6VDC Slide switch, #275-0007. It costs $1.99.

Good luck hacking your camera :hv20-smilie77:

Peter

PeterC

2008 March 27th, 11:57

I've been getting some PMs regarding the flip hack so I am addressing some of the questions on the thread so others can benefit as well.

Just keep in mind the precautions others gave like being mindful of the capacitor at the front of the camera when it's open. If you touch it, you'll feel a tingling buzz... it's not very painful but it may surprise you. It's pretty easy to avoid but be aware of it.

Also, soldering to the switches is a bit tricky. Make sure that however you solder the wires, that there is room around it for when you have to remount the switches and close the housing up.

Someone else mentioned that they had to resolder the wires a few times to get it right. Thanks to his forewarning, I was able to preplan how I would solder the wires.

As far as wiring diagrams or whatnot, the photos by Jerry Lee are pretty helpful and explanatory of what to wire and where.

Just be patient with the whole process. It can get frustrating at times trying to put things back in place. The vertical switch that's housed in the LCD hinge is pretty tricky and I was getting frustrated with it but finally got it to stay in place so I could close the badboy up.

And, of course, use common soldering sense, like not applying the soldering iron for too long so you don't melt anything or fry any electronic circuitry.

Good luck to all who attempt this mod,
Peter

phanatik

2008 March 27th, 12:22

thanks Peter and Jerry Lee.

not u mattias. j/k:hv20-smilie09:

phanatik

2008 March 27th, 18:43

uh ohh! Just got back from Radios Shack.

Got a soldering iron, some solder, the switch and wire... along with stopping @ Subway for a $5 foot-long tuna sammich. Gonna be doin the "hack." Definitely not tellin my wife about this. She already thinks I spent too much on lenses.

... to be continue.

Avene

2008 March 27th, 20:04

Just a couple of (terrible) photos here of how it turned out. My DPDT switch was actually quite big, but still no bigger than the smallest I could find at any of the local electronics stores. Excluding the DIL switch I originally started with.. But a DPDT is much better, and being kind of large makes it quick to adjust.

Getting the hole the right size for the switch took a while. I actually used the soldering iron to burn the plastic away to make the hole big enough! It worked and I bought a pack of M2 size screws, washers and nuts that I used to screw the switch in place. It worked well too. Then I cut some fine pieces of electrical tape, ran those around the soldered parts and the screw tip inside as you can see in the photo. Since I've covered the whole area it should stop any dust getting in through the tiny gaps around the switch. Unless there's there's some kind of sealer that can be used for those?

Anyway, the main thing is it works :) Now I just need to vacuum my old SG Pro 35mm adapter and make sure still works alright.

PeterC

2008 March 28th, 06:45

Then I cut some fine pieces of electrical tape, ran those around the soldered parts and the screw tip inside as you can see in the photo. Since I've covered the whole area it should stop any dust getting in through the tiny gaps around the switch. Unless there's there's some kind of sealer that can be used for those?

I just filled the area underneath with hot glue to seal the area from dust coming in.

mattias

2008 March 28th, 09:15

not u mattias
i did answer your question didn't i? thought i might as well have some fun in the meantime.

/matt

Ian-T

2008 March 28th, 09:31

mattias....he was kidding.........

mattias

2008 March 28th, 09:47

mattias....he was kidding.........
i'm not so sure. but then again if he's not maybe it's because he wasn't sure that i was in the first place. damn internet. no facial expressions...

/matt

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 12:52

I thnk I FAILED!!!!

It doesn't come back on!

Avene

2008 March 28th, 13:09

I just filled the area underneath with hot glue to seal the area from dust coming in.

I was actually thinking of doing that, but after making such a mess with the glue the first, decided to give a miss.

Phanatik, that doesn`t sound promising. Have you soldered all the wires to the switch in the same way as in Jerry`s diagram? That`s all I can think of. If they`re wired incorrectly you may not see anything. Just take your time checking it and be sure the soldering iron isn`t touching for too long. Just a few seconds to be safe, then let it cool for a bit.

Also, if it`s a DPDT switch, did you check that you didn`t connect the wires to both sets of outside pins?

PeterC

2008 March 28th, 13:32

If the actual camera isn't turning on, make sure all of the wire busses are properly seated back in their sockets. If they aren't all connected, the HV20 won't turn on.

Just don't freak out and take your time to retrace your steps. Take a break and relax a bit before going back to it and maybe an idea of what might have went wrong will come to mind.

Hopefully, it's just the LCD that won't turn on. In that case, the viewfinder should still work and you'll know it's something wrong with your soldering of the switches.

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 14:10

Phanatik, that doesn`t sound promising. Have you soldered all the wires to the switch in the same way as in Jerry`s diagram? That`s all I can think of. If they`re wired incorrectly you may not see anything. Just take your time checking it and be sure the soldering iron isn`t touching for too long. Just a few seconds to be safe, then let it cool for a bit.

Also, if it`s a DPDT switch, did you check that you didn`t connect the wires to both sets of outside pins?

It is a DPDT switch and they're 6 pins and I connected 2 from the vertical and 2 from the horizontal to the four of the outside of the pins.. so I hope its just this that wrongs. Im gonna unsolder them and try to turn on.

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 14:13

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 14:15

..or mayb I used the wrong type of wires to connect switch to vertical/horizontal.. I used 4 conductor 24 gauge wire. Nothing @ all comes on. No switching noise or anything.

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 14:17

If the actual camera isn't turning on, make sure all of the wire busses are properly seated back in their sockets. If they aren't all connected, the HV20 won't turn on.

Just don't freak out and take your time to retrace your steps. Take a break and relax a bit before going back to it and maybe an idea of what might have went wrong will come to mind.

... im not freaking out ... yet..

my wife is gonna stab me!

PeterC

2008 March 28th, 14:41

It is a DPDT switch and they're 6 pins and I connected 2 from the vertical and 2 from the horizontal to the four of the outside of the pins.. so I hope its just this that wrongs. Im gonna unsolder them and try to turn on.

The pins are two rows of 3 pins.

DPDT means double pole, double throw, which means you can connect two separate circuits (poles), and can be used to connecting to two different possible settings (throws).

In this case, one of the settings, or throws, is off, or unconnected.

So each row has 3 pins, the middle pin is the common line for the two edge pins, which allows you to connect the middle pin to complete two different circuits.

Connect one wire from each switch from the LCD to the middle pin. Then connect the other wire from each switch to the SAME side edge pin, on its corresponding row.

It would look something like this if you want the switch at left position to mean off, or to act normally:

(nothing connected) (horizontal switch) (other horizontal switch)
(nothing connected) (vertical switch) (other vertical switch)

If you connected the switch wire leads to only the outside pins, your LCD should act normally and sliding the switch won't do anything (once you get your camera to turn on, of course).

PeterC

2008 March 28th, 14:59

...by the way.. 2 of the top screws(shoe) could not come out. Kinda stripped... well stripped. and I dont have the cam fully off or open. With it in mid-surgery, I connected a battery jst to see if it's still alive. I can not get the front part all the way off either.

my HV20 now need double-bypass surgery.

Aflac!

Why can't you get the front to come off fully? Make sure you got all the screws out. There are two screws on the right side of the cam (the AV jack and below it) that hold the front in place as well.

Study garm's photos. He pretty much shows disassembly step by step.

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 15:07

Dont kno y its not comin off. Whos Garms?

PeterC

2008 March 28th, 15:15

Dont kno y its not comin off. Whos Garms?

He's Mr. Dismantlement. He removed the IR cut filter on the HV20 so he could take "Nightshot" video like Sony camcorders.

Here's a link to the photos: http://www.hv20.com/showpost.php?p=39251&postcount=68

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 15:21

the thing will not even turn over. when battery attached.. though still open-surgery. IM dwnldin pics now.

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 18:46

LCD does not turn on

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 18:57

no power LED comes on but I can put in/pull out a tape

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 19:55

AAAghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!:hv20-smilie119::hv20-smilie126:

Avene

2008 March 28th, 21:16

Oh no, it doesn't sound too good. :( If I was in NY I'd pay you a visit, see what's different. Do you have any photos? That might help. Another possibility could be that a couple of the separate soldered sections may be touching, perhaps a loose thread of wire. Don't give up!

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 21:54

http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/instramentalz/damaged%20HV20/

phanatik

2008 March 28th, 22:32

got 'er back. She's alive!! She's alive I tell you!

thank God, Thank Allah.

man! And just think, im doin a short film and Monday we come back from spring break and start shooting.

It's back. Got it workin:hv20-smilie09::hv20-smilie45:!!

phewww; and she'll never know.

Thank God!!

Avene

2008 March 29th, 01:16

That's good to hear! Nice one :)

Hey, I just noticed you've got an MPC4000... I used to have one of those myself.

robpowers3d

2008 March 29th, 02:01

With the help of a very kind technically "gifted" friend I was able to complete the flip modification today. I'll post details soon to try and help others. I didn't mind if the LCD was permanently hard-wired flipped because I will use the camera exclusively with a M2 Redrock adapter. Although the surgery was a bit tedious, overall it was pretty straight forward. It involved a sautering iron and some krazy glue. :)

phanatik

2008 March 29th, 10:13

phanatik

2008 March 29th, 10:16

That's good to hear! Nice one :)

Hey, I just noticed you've got an MPC4000... I used to have one of those myself.

Yeah the 4000 is a beast. I still make beats... when I can. Will show some stuff soon. As Soon as I get everything operational and functioning properly. I got a bunch of samples, crazy sounds and samples I need to chop n mess with. Gonna make a beatmaking/sampling vid real soon. Hopefully.

PeterC

2008 March 29th, 14:54

My focus isn't working properly.
it's like on AF. The focus scroll just scrolls with no resistance. Theres a dangly cord/wire; brownish that looks like it supposed to be hooked or connected to somethin over the lens but I do not see a connecting end or where it would go. Also, on the DPDT switch, one of the stems broke off so I soldered to the other end. I hope that the broken stem doesn't effect its operation. My LCD doesn't switch properly. It flips right side up then when switched the other end it only shows it in the viewfinder. I think mayb some wires mayb touching or somethin. I can fix that but the focus is now my concern.

Any suggestions??

Glad to hear you got the camera to turn on!

My guess is you didn't connect the wires to the same side of the switch. So, on one end of the switch, you're activating the vertical switch, but not the horizontal. Then on the other end of the switch, you're activating the horizontal and not the vertical, so the LCD turns off and the viewfinder turns on. Connect the two wires to the same side of the switch and it should work.

As for the dangly wire, is it on the top side of the lens or the bottom side. There are two wire busses on the front of the camera. The one on the bottom of the lens cover part connects to the main body at the front side underneath the lens area. There is another (I think it's thinner) bus on the top side of the lens cover part and it connects to the little white box looking thing at the top side of the main body near the lens.

I've attached some photos below.

Peter

phanatik

2008 March 29th, 15:18

Glad to hear you got the camera to turn on!

Peter
thanks

My guess is you didn't connect the wires to the same side of the switch.
Peter

Yeah thats what I did and ended up resoldering... got it fixed though.

As for the dangly wire,... (I think it's thinner) bus on the top side of the lens cover part and it connects to the little white box looking thing at the top side of the main body near the lens.

Peter

this is the freaking 1. I can't get to it because the top shell will not come of due to the unscrewable screws on top.

PeterC

2008 March 29th, 15:27

this is the freaking 1. I can't get to it because the top shell will not come of due to the unscrewable screws on top.

What do you mean the top shell won't come off? Do you have a picture? Everything does come apart pretty easily and you should be able to access it.

You can try using some pliers to try to seat the wire if you can't reach it with your hands.

Peter

phanatik

2008 March 29th, 15:33

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/instramentalz/damaged%20HV20/DSC00008.jpgu can c 2 screws are out but the remaing to will no longer turn. this whole part(top) will not come off.

PeterC

2008 March 29th, 16:03

It looks like you stripped the screws... When I was working with the camera, I didn't really need to apply force to the screws. There is a temptation to over-tighten the screws when putting it all back together, which will cause the screws to be stripped :(

If you have a dremel tool, you can try to cut a slit across the top of the screw so that you can use a flat-head screwdriver to unscrew the screws.

BTW, how did you take the front of the camera off without taking the top off?

Peter

phanatik

2008 March 29th, 16:09

phanatik

2008 March 29th, 18:43

FINALLYYYY!!!!!:hv20-smilie09::hv20-smilie77:

Got this thing off and got everything workin.

Doesn't physically look the same;aesthetically but its done.

PeterC

2008 March 29th, 18:49

Rock on, Shawn! Way to press on through it!

phanatik

2008 March 29th, 19:53

Rock on, Shawn! Way to press on through it!

Thank man. Will do... and more work 2 do.:hv20-smilie45:

matthias.martin

2008 March 31st, 15:25

Hello everyone
I thought I'd chime in again just so everyone knows that I'm still watching this. Um, congratulations to all the unfaint of heart who took the plunge.
I actually want point out what the really important points are, because, as already stated, it is not about avoiding the electric shock from the flash capacitor (some might even enjoy it ;-)).
The real things to watch out are these:

Dont heat the soldering points on the original switches longer than one second, they could disintegrate or come off the tiny piece of pcb (if you can, set your soldering iron to about 340°C).
Use really thin wires, so you will not get problems with mechanical stress on the solderings or with clearance. I used laquer insulated copper wires that i unwound from a tiny transformer. The insulation on that stuff can be stripped thermally using your soldering iron.
Be extremely careful not to overstress the flexible pcb stuff that attaches to the switches.
Take a lot of time to re-insert the flexible-pcb into the ZIF-connector on the main PCB, and make sure it is all the way in.

BTW, I received an upgraded microcontroller. Would anyone be interested in a video showing the whole dismantling process? Because I think I will now design a custom PCB carrying the uC and the switch. And then there might be a number of appearance concerned people who would like to go that route. And in the process I might just as well let my old sony TRV-125 capture the process of the disassembly. Argh, evil interlacing. But it hasn't been done yet. And I find the photos of Mister Dismantlement not quite as helpful as they could be.
On the other hand..., leaving things as they are is quite tempting too, having the camery revert to non-flipped on power cycle might even be practical sometimes... Seeking glory for myself is wrong anyway.
Attaching offtopic picture, just for fun. Did you know that those bolexes from the 60s had the same 43mm thread?

matthias.martin

2008 March 31st, 15:36

I had another idea to flip the image without altering the cam:

Find an old camcorder with CRT viewfinder.
Amputate the viewfinder and figure out the CVBS and supply wires.
Connect the viewfinder to the AV-output of the hv20.
Invert the vertical and the horizontal coil-connections on the yoke of the CRT.
Borgify yourself by attaching the hacked viewfinder to your skull.

Doing this you will look really dangerous - at least in the psychiatric sense :hv20-smilie79:

matthias.martin

2008 March 31st, 20:59

PeterC

2008 March 31st, 21:19

Nice pdf, Matthias!

Very clever of you in powering your microcontroller.

I also didn't know that you could connect just one side of the switch and the other to ground! That simplifies things ;)

For thin wires, I used the spare conductor cables that come with hard drives, cut off the connectors, and stripped off the number of wires I needed. These cables are shielded and very flexible.

You showed the easier of the switches but didn't include the taking apart of the LCD hinge and wiring the "more difficult switch."

I would guess the "dope box" is used for cooling purposes but smuggling illegal items could be another use... LOL

As far as using the space for modification boards, that's an idea! If you could program your microcontroller to accept LANC commands and activate switches internally, that would be VERY AWESOME!

Thanks again for taking the time to take the HV20 apart (again) to put together a disassembly manual... how ironic, eh? :hv20-smilie64:

Peter

phanatik

2008 March 31st, 21:36

hello everybody, I took my camera apart again, only to measure some things, and took some pictures.
I made a pdf, so everything is in the proper order and annotated.
Download it here (http://www.refgossau.ch/pdf/HV20-disassembly.pdf).

NOW u do this! I needed this 3 longs ass, tiring, ..@#!**%^ing days ago!

.. but I'll read it though. Thanks.:hv20-smilie81::hv20-smilie110:

Dannysuru

2008 April 1st, 00:31

Dude thanks !Nice pdf
thats a really huge help for the brave men and wowen who walk the earth and want to capture the beauty.
next Mod?
must be to insert a shrink/enlarge device in the dopebox to make the camera the size of a coin,put in your wallet for transporting and then enlarge the camera to the size of a horse when you get to your friends house and watch the LCD from the sofa!

matthias.martin

2008 April 1st, 12:23

NOW u do this! I needed this 3 longs ass, tiring, ..@#!**%^ing days ago!

I plead guilty. Sorry.
And I also admit to being a wimp for not opening the lcd-hinge compartment again.

Hey brother kmwf, thanks for the kind but undeserved words: This was the ugliest looking pdf i ever produced, i allowed myself to do this because a) i only had 4MB in that old crappy sony DSC-bla which accounts for the VGA-resolution of the pics and b) i guessed that the usefulness of the content was making up for the lack in style.
so long.
gm

Avene

2008 April 1st, 17:25

Matthias, great pdf! Looks like you removed a few screws in a different order than I had myself. This might have helped me a bit more. Will come in handy if I ever buy a second HV20.

phanatik

2008 April 1st, 18:49

I plead guilty. Sorry.
And I also admit to being a wimp for not opening the lcd-hinge compartment again.
gm

its kool Matthias, I have to go back in anyways. LCD keeps flippin in out.. blacks out or just flips vertically. have 2 better the connects or something.
Also, U only used 1 wire for each position(verical/Horizonal switch) is this true for using a DPDT switch as well?

thanks 4 the 2 the worl u provided and ur time. Appreciate. I will follow this as I go back in for the ..."TRIPPLE-BYPASS."

Peace!

jehugarcia

2008 April 2nd, 02:27

OK that is awesome, matthias you are the man!!!! I on the other hand am very....impacient i order some switches yesterday at work but when i got home I had a LED UFO thing i had ordered a couple of days to make some kind of video light for my cam and what do i see inside the UFO? thats right! a switch! So i got going and two hours i had a successful Flip hack on my HV20. Thanks everyone for all the info, i will also make a pdf of my surgery in hopes that it can be useful for someone. for now here are pictures http://gallery.mac.com/jehug#100040&view=grid&bgcolor=black&sel=3http://gallery.mac.com/jehug/100040/DSC04228/web.jpg

PeterC

2008 April 2nd, 06:43

Great job, JehuGarcia!

Now that you used the switch for the LCD flip, how will you turn on your UFO? :) Are you going to attach it like a macro light ring?

Glad to see more people getting bold about hacking their HV20s :hv20-smilie09:

Peter

matthias.martin

2008 April 2nd, 17:06

Congratulations - best flip-hack to date, not the prettiest, but the most functional.

jehugarcia

2008 April 3rd, 20:26

matthias.martin

2008 April 6th, 17:28

its kool Matthias, I have to go back in anyways. LCD keeps flippin in out.. blacks out or just flips vertically. have 2 better the connects or something.

Try using thinner cables. Sounds like they lack clearance. They might have gotten sheared off because of that.. dunno. The whole construction is really delicate, especially inside that hinge cavity.

Also, U only used 1 wire for each position(verical/Horizonal switch) is this true for using a DPDT switch as well.
Peace!
It can also be a DPST kind, it just needs to be the latching kind (two stable positions).
And yes, that switch only needs to be connected to one pole of each individual switch. In my PDF i showed only one of them, but just try it out for the other one, you can't break it by connecting it to the wrong pole of the switch. Just connect the broad flex-print, power the cam on and connect in turn each end of the tiny switch to ground potential (the copper skeleton for example), then you will see which end is the hot one.
If you or someon else figures this out and tells me I will update my disassembly PDF, so it will become even more useful.

matthias.martin

2008 April 6th, 17:35

Thanx guys, i think i might have to just look at the hot shoe to power my ufo LEDs, might not even need a switch! Matthias, have you look at the hot shoe as far as figuring out what leg does what? For this, I would only need to figure out where the power is and figure out how much i can draw. I could probably feed my DOF adapter as well! Does this sound like a good idea?

At the moment there is not a single pin on the hot shoe where you could actually draw power, as there seems to be some sensing magic going on. But you could draw power directly from the battery connector and use one of the signals on the hot shoe to switch it on and off. But you need to be somewhat well versed in building electronic circuits, FETs and stuff. Probably easier to supply it with it's own battery, because all those LEDs draw a considerable amount of current.

Sutebia

2008 April 6th, 22:56

Well i busted the horizontal switch with a small piece of card that i was using to push it down during filming.

Any suggestions? I hope i don't need to open her up.

matthias.martin

2008 April 24th, 17:17

Well i busted the horizontal switch with a small piece of card that i was using to push it down during filming.

Any suggestions? I hope i don't need to open her up.

Sorry to bust your hope - but yes, you will have to open her up, and do a full fliphack procedure... ;-).
Or you find someone to do it for you.
My disassembly guide might already be known to you, but here (http://www.refgossau.ch/pdf/HV20-disassembly.pdf) is the link again:

Get yourself a sliding DPST or DPDT switch - go for the smallest size.

Another solution would be to invest in an external HD-monitor, like this (http://izzotek.com/achat/index.php?catid=67) one. That would even allow you to actually do precise focusing, instead of guessing, like you have to using the internal LCD.

matthias.martin

2008 April 24th, 17:24

Hey, where is everybody? Is just everybody disillusioned about fliphacking? Has everybody deserted the camp and bought a panasonic HDC-SD9? The silence around here is scaring me.
Or maybe they all realized they spent too much time in these silly forums and decided to instead go out and make hd-movies. Which would be a very good thing.

jehugarcia

2008 April 24th, 18:10

Hey Matthias.martin people are still hacking they're just not posting check out this guys Hack. (http://otherish.com/images/hv30/flip_hack_cu.jpg) You can find the thread Here. (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=9921) He did a very clean job almost as good as yours.

Guys if you need this procedure done and even after reading Matthias' PDF (http://www.refgossau.ch/pdf/HV20-disassembly.pdf) you still don't feel capable just let me know I'll do it for you for a small fee.

matthias.martin

2008 April 26th, 12:10

If anyone is still reading this thread....
Here's the thing:
I you will be fliphacking your cam (http://refgossau.ch/pdf/HV20-disassembly.pdf), please take a picture of the vertical switch that makes clear which one of its two poles needs to be connected to our DPDT switch. And I will then incorporate your pic into my PDF (http://refgossau.ch/pdf/HV20-disassembly.pdf).
Thank you.
gm

nyvz

2008 May 7th, 20:43

Ok, I am interested in doing this hack. I tried it about a year ago but it wasnt well documented and I thought i might be able to install a switch right in the lcd hinge casing, but it didnt work out so i quit while my camera still worked.

matthias, is it necessary to remove all of the parts of the camera in the order you have documented? is it really not possible to only remove the lcd side panel and nothing else? seems that would be the least invasive.

another thing, would it be possible to instead of installing a new button, desolder leads from the BLC button and connect flip wires instead? i certainly never use the BLC button otherwise. i suppose it is probably only a momentary button, right? what about putting a small button in one of the screw holes in the lcd side panel instead of drilling a new hole. this might make the process somewhat reversible and also less invasive. the screw just left of the minisd slot seems it could be expendible. or is there no space over there? i guess it is really best to stick to the dope box for clearance reasons right?

Ian Lim

2008 May 8th, 02:04

If you dont have guts to do the flip hack, I'd suggest you to hire Jehugarcia to do it. Neat, safe and inexpensive! :hv20-smilie77:

dsynthuhsize

2008 May 11th, 14:14

Hi, I want to do the flip hack- but I don't want to have to open up the whole thing. Can I just do it like this? http://www.cinevate.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=518

I understand this may result in "breaking" the switch and permanently have the LCD upside down?

Now, if I am extremely careful- and slow...do you think I could do it with the method aformentioned?

Avene

2008 May 12th, 04:21

No, I wouldn't risk it. Better to do it properly. Just follow all the info in this thread.

duey101

2008 May 12th, 07:52

Very cool Mattias, good work. I have scheduled my new HV30 for surgery this week. I would suggest you all buy a set of Mobile Phone hand tools because they are really good for doing this kind of work. They make removing the small bits and pieces much easier to work with, and put back together. I always use these things when doing my hacks.

http://snackyserve.com/surgeons_tools.jpg

Mattias, do you have any updated PDF's or a guide for the second switch?

Cheers

chet_woolery

2008 May 19th, 23:35

The link to the disassembly seems to be down. Any chance you could take a look, or maybe repost it.

Thanks!

http://refgossau.ch/pdf/HV20-disassembly.pdf

winston vargas

2008 May 27th, 10:28

I do have an external monitor, but it's not a high resolution one and it doesn't do the HV20 justice when it comes to image quality. It's hard to focus properly.

But I was planning on getting a nice monitor later on, but with this hack, I don't think it's necessary.

Plus, with the adapter at the front and the 7 inch lcd at the top of the camera, not to mention the cavision rails at the bottom and the beachtek audio adapter I have attached, this thing is turning into a monster. I'm afraid the cheap casing of the HV20 is getting too much stress and might crack soon.

Check out my upside down rig with my medium format adapter, you're right.. It's no longer a small camera, but it works when you need all the accessories available for filming on the mount. www.youtube.com/vargas095 also check
www.freewebs.com/wvargas. I will be posting some photos on this site..

Jarekin

2008 May 31st, 17:17

What is a risk of too long soldering?
I know that I can burn the switch, but something else? polarity?

I soldered and it looks properly, but horizontal flip (lcd power on/off) switch doesn't work.
LCD works only when vertical switch is turned on.
It seems that the endings are connected somewhere out of the switch.
Please help.

MAGICOFPYRO

2008 May 31st, 21:55

I just got my small switch from radio shack today, and I've printed out matthias martin's pdf file (thanks matthias), may the force be with me as I take this bad boy apart tonight.

Oh, and thanks PETERC i just spent a half hour online trying to find how to solder this dpdt switch, even the guys at radio shack didnt have a clue, and I never found anything so your explanation was very clear.

MAGICOFPYRO

2008 June 1st, 04:50

jehugarcia

2008 June 1st, 18:59

ok, its 1:40 am in the morning and I should of quit while I was ahead

Everything came apart pretty easy, yes I did get shocked, installed my switch, soldered the first wires to the first switch, got the wires soldered on the switch thats inside the housing, then I go to put the switch back in the housing and all hell breaks loose. (I broke the whole thing off from the micro cable) cause I couldn't figure out which side went up or down, it's very tricky because the cable needs to twist also when you turn your lcd.

Any Ideas? I'm thinking that would be a hell of a soldering job to solder those small wires back if not impossible, what would happen if I left it broke, would it be flipped right for my adapter permanently

someone help !!! I got my camera strewn across the dining room table and I got to put it back together.

Ooh..... Its possible, I had one guy sent me he's camera and once opened i noticed he had tried himself and broke this switch, So what you have to do is, scrape the lamination on either side of the ribbon cable until you get to the copper then solder there. Now, that sounds easy but MAN!! was that hard, it took me twice to do this hack than a normal one , and i don't know how long the solder will hold because the solder point at the copper its so small.

jehugarcia

2008 June 1st, 19:31

Another thing is, as mentioned before you don't need to connect both sides of the switches, only one side and then from your new switch to chassis ground, here is a your pictures showing witch side:
http://gallery.mac.com/jehug/100211/Picture-201_3/web.jpg

MAGICOFPYRO

2008 June 1st, 20:34

Ooh..... Its possible, I had one guy sent me he's camera and once opened i noticed he had tried himself and broke this switch, So what you have to do is, scrape the lamination on either side of the ribbon cable until you get to the copper then solder there. Now, that sounds easy but MAN!! was that hard, it took me twice to do this hack than a normal one , and i don't know how long the solder will hold because the solder point at the copper its so small.

Thanks a lot for your reply but after 7 hours trying different things I finally took my dremel and sanded down the laquer like your saying and was able to get a small bead between the two exposed wires (talk about frustating), I used my achromat lens to mangnify while I was working.

But I got it!!! It works I put everything back together and it's flipped but the switch isn't activating the horizontal to flip so its still reversed.

If I hook the wire like your saying to the switch and then switch to ground should that do it?

thanks for the help

MAGICOFPYRO

2008 June 2nd, 03:14

I guess everyone is relaxing today, because I'm going nuts trying to get some answers and I just here crickets chirping.

But I've gotten it all sorted out, thanks for your input jehugarcia I tried to solder it to the copper like I suggested in the picture above but the solder wouldn't stick so I just unscrewed that speaker screw nearby and wrapped it around that then tighten it back up, what a memorable weekend this has been.

but i'm done and everything works good, coulnd't have done it without this site !

I love the HV20 community, VIVA LA hv20!!.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/2544577052_fe9b8d2589.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3070/2544577018_7f8ea02794.jpg?v=0

Mr. Mingo

2008 June 2nd, 22:44

Congrats. I dont think Ill be trying this anytime soon.
I dig your rig, is that a DIY follow focus?

MAGICOFPYRO

2008 June 3rd, 01:05

Congrats. I dont think Ill be trying this anytime soon.
I dig your rig, is that a DIY follow focus?

Thanks, It wasn't really that bad, the only thing that made it frustrating was the switch breaking off and having to short circuit that micro print circuit, but if I had to do it over again I would because it just makes life a lot more easier filming with the proper view, don't let my experience deter your attempt.

and yes i made the follow focus:

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=5668

greg.stephen

2008 July 7th, 06:38

Hi all,
ouaahh thanks matthias for your work :hv20-smilie03:
i read your great pdf.
Could you make a picture (schema) more easy with all item cause i'm not an electronician lol.
please...?
I ordered this microchip on ebay.
do you want to help me before i open my hv30 ??
I don't want to do mistakes :hv20-smilie119:

thanks
steph

MitchellStafiej

2008 July 15th, 18:46

MAGICOFPYRO

2008 July 16th, 22:28

Hey guys! So I'm trying to do the hack right now, without using switches or anything. I just want to hold down the switches already in the camera with something. But I don't know what to use...

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Mitch

the easiest thing you can do (if your taking the camera apart) to hold them down is to put a small dab of hot glue on it, that way it will hold it down and if you ever want to remove it you can just pull it off easy, or even a really small piece of scotch tape

RHKFilm

2008 July 17th, 00:08

Hi All,

Happy customer here. I sent my HV20 to Jehu Garcia in Rancho Cucamonga and had the flip-hack with the dip-switches installed. It arrived back a week later and works great. I tried to do this mod myself awhile ago and ended up with a permanently flipped LCD. This is skilled work folks and Jehu's hack is a bargain.

My only reservation about the transaction was that the unit was shipped back via USPS which took longer than UPS ground, did not require a signature and does not indicate any form of insurance. I know shipping is annoying and expensive, but I was fearful for a day or so that my camera didn't make it back to me safely and I might have no recourse. But it found it's way to my hands and I'm VERY HAPPY!

Thank you Jehu.

wcatbb

2008 July 20th, 14:20

I've been lurking this thread for about a week and have built up the courage to take apart my HV30. Congrats to those who have finished this successfully; truly inspirational. So far, the three most useful bits I have found for the hack are:

1. Print out the PDF and while you are dismantling, attach the screws to the paper by poking them through the exact spot where they were removed. That will make re-assembly much easier.

2. Use an old HDD IDE/SATA connector for your wiring, as they are flexible, insulated, and small. Just peel off and strip down the individual wires as necessary.

3. Watch out for the capacitor in the front. It can be shocking!

Seeing as how I've never taken apart the camera, the one trouble area I foresee is the vertical switch. I will be mounting a SPDT switch like the one used here (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=9921) and I'm still a bit fuzzy about how he is talking about making sure the switch is seated properly:

...make sure the vertical switch is SEATED on the bottom in that little metal slot, and that the top sits around the metal nub, otherwise you will eventually snap the lever I guarantee.

Of course, this is the one area that Matthias PDF does not cover because it is really difficult to get to. However, digging around I think I have found some images of the switch that JehuGarcia has uploaded.

I'm unsure what part would be soldered to ground and what would go to the switch. I'm also not sure how it would be "seated" properly. If it isn't, does that mean when the LCD is flipped, it will snap off? How much slack should I be giving my soldered wiring?

Any help on this before I actually dissect my HV30 would be greatly appreciated.

voltorben

2008 July 24th, 14:29

AUCH! i should have read the whole thread before doing the hack. I got some really big shocks from the capacitor, and i was really freaked out because i just could't figure out where it came from :p i still dont get it...
Anyways, i did the hack and all works fine! I installed two switches on the 'flippers' and ran the wires out on the top where you attach your mic. it was actually really easy IMO.

Good luck to the rest of you thinking about doing the hack.

I also recommend using solder paste when you solder small stuff. it just makes the job easier :)

wcatbb

2008 July 26th, 16:36

Did anybody else find that the screws on the bottom were almost impossibly tight when they first went in?

It's almost as if the base plate is off centered or too large and is pressing up against the threads. I can't get a good enough grip on the heads and fear I'll strip them because it's taking a lot more effort (using pliers to turn) than the others.

FRUSTRATION. Any tips? Maybe I should buy a dremel and just file the heads off until the plate sides out and then replace the screws? Superglue a metal rod on each of the faces and then use pliers to unscrew them? I mean, I'm breaking a sweat with the amount of pressure I am putting on these things...

wcatbb

2008 July 28th, 12:17

Finally got this sucker unscrewed! nearly stripped 7 of the screws, but stopped and re-thought it and went out and bought a dedicated #00 phillips head and it worked! Those cheap ones that come as a set crumble when you apply a bit of pressure to them.

Now on to the upsetting part.

The LCD won't power on now, even though I was extra careful. No switches broken or fried. The only thing that I can't quite seem to put back in place is the flexible zif connecter. I'm imagining that the LCD draws power from this because it is the only thing that is connected to the chassis outside of the red and black speaker wires on bottom. What were your strategies on getting this back in?

wcatbb

2008 July 30th, 02:00

I'm not too sure, but I feel like I have bricked my cam as the LCD and viewfinder don't power on any more, however I haven't completely put it all back together. Couple of questions to those that might know:

1) Do the LCD and viewfinder draw power from the large flex print or does the camera have to be put back together and attached to the capacitor before you can see if you have successfully done the mod?

2) I am 100 percent positive I have soldered the correct leads from the camera switches, but am unsure what pins I should solder to. Please see the attached jpg of my switch. Here (http://www.nkkswitches.com/drawings/G13AP.pdf) is the diagram. I suppose I solder a wire from the opposite support pin to the camera chassis/ground.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3040/2715511611_97c12fbdaa.jpg?v=0

JehuGarcia has been a great help explaining a few things to me, but I feel like I'm only missing a few key bits of information before I can get my HV30 back up and running. Please help!

jehugarcia

2008 July 30th, 02:16

A few posts back i posted this picture showing witch leads should go to the switch. I now realized that by also marking the other leads as Ground , some might understand it as being necessary for these to go to ground. Its not, they are already ground and you dont need to do anything to them. I drew this quick diagram to show what i mean, you only need to connect one side of the existing camera switches to the new switch and then to ground.
http://gallery.me.com/jehug/100040/Picture-2010/web.jpghttp://gallery.me.com/jehug/100040/Picture-201/web.jpg

Also A word of advise, I've hacked many HV20s and HV30s by now, I've bricked one, I am convinced that it was due to the fact that I decided to disconnect the big ribbons that connect LCD to main board. Why I think this is the reason?
Well 1 because its the only thing i did different.
and 2 because if you look at the ribbon connectors they look something like this
http://gallery.me.com/jehug/100040/Picture-2013/web.jpg

canon uses ribbon connectors that have 2 roows of contact points, so if the ribbon is not seated all the way in then not only are some of the contacts not connected but it is actually possible for them to be touching the wrong contacts and if you apply power then its possible to short out ICs. Of course this is just my opinion based on my observations.
So if you're attempting the hack, don't disconnect the ribbons, it is possible to work without disconnecting them, i do it everyday.

wcatbb

2008 July 30th, 03:03

Dude, Jehu, you're awesome. Yeah, that's what I thought initially when you drew out the quick diagram, so I ended up soldering a wire directly from the ground part of the camera switch to a screw instead of just soldering one wire on the cam switch to the DIP and then going from the DIP to the screw. Here's what I'm looking at now:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3286/2716451568_9f9b377265.jpg?v=0

Notice that I'm using a Single Pole "ON-OFF-ON" switch, so I have attached both leads to one of the ON sides. Not sure if this will work (any electrical engineers out there? :hv20-smilie03:) but it would be ideal to have the vertical and horizontal flip simultaneously.

Still waiting to hear how exactly the LCD and viewfinder draw power. I'd like to test the connections knowing I have everything plugged in correctly for a test. As of now, I just have the broad flex print that goes across the top connected to the ZIF connecter and the camera powers on and functions, but the LCD and viewfinder are dead. I've already lost a couple of screws due to stripping and dropping one, so I want to avoid putting everything back until I know it works.

Thanks again JehuGarcia! It's getting closer!

jehugarcia

2008 July 30th, 03:53

Notice that I'm using a Single Pole "ON-OFF-ON" switch, so I have attached both leads to one of the ON sides. Not sure if this will work (any electrical engineers out there? :hv20-smilie03:) but it would be ideal to have the vertical and horizontal flip simultaneously.

I think that center pin on your switch needs to go to ground
http://gallery.me.com/jehug/100040/Picture-2014/web.jpg

Also check this thread out, Might prove my theory right:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=13904

wcatbb

2008 July 30th, 04:17

Good suggestion. I'll go ground with that one, but thankfully I didn't get any of the symptoms mentioned in that other thread. Camera powers on fine except still nothing out of the viewfinder or LCD.

gaemihal2

2008 July 30th, 12:54

hi, wcatbb
I got my HV20 back from Canon AS center yesterday.
Before A/S, My cam was also "POWER-ON" and everything's well except LCD.
Yes, LCD itself was also alive then.

The problem was "MAINBOARD" that related to LCD.
(my viewfinder was still all okay. REC/PLAYBACK)

My mainboard was changed.
Mainboard is too expensive!!! :hv20-smilie36:
While i was soldering, it seemed that there was some electric shock to it.
(After the 1st test, I might have soldered without removing the battery...)
Mainboard + PCB(broken partially during lcd's flipping) = $440

Of course, i hope your cam's fine.
but... there might a REAL problem in the other part..
While my cam were not working properly,
I thought "NO,NO.. not dead.. it would work soon!. just a simple thing.."
and tried all night long to put together, take apart, solder other wires
& check every terminal & switch..........
but other problem that i didn't want.

Now i'm free from anxiety even though spent a lot of bucks.
(in fact, I'm gonna try a hack again hahaha:hv20-smilie45:)

Good Luck, dude!:hv20-smilie09:

gaemihal2

2008 July 30th, 13:01

I really want to send my cam to Jehugarcia for LCD-hack, but i'm not in US.
According to my country's Customs, I must pay the cumstoms duties
when i get it back.
To avoid that, I must make out some export/import-documents for duty-free.
but also commission!!!
So.. I gotta do it myself!

Hey, jehugarcia
I got a question.

Is there any difference between 'just 1 wire to new switch/ 1 wire to Ground'
and '2 wires to new switch & no ground' ??

(A)
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa187/gaemihal/connect.jpg

(B)
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa187/gaemihal/connect2.jpg

I know you used to do like (A), but someone does like (B).
I guess (A) is more easier! :)

btw, my (A) connection is correct??
Which pin of the new switch.. can be connected with GROUND?

please help me-

jehugarcia

2008 July 31st, 15:48

btw, my (A) connection is correct??
Which pin of the new switch.. can be connected with GROUND?
please help me-

Yes both (a) and (b) are correct, Just (a) is simpler and less work, less soldering, less chance to burn something.

It doesn't matter witch pin goes to ground as long as it connects to ground completing the circuit.

gaemihal2

2008 July 31st, 16:17

Thanks a lot!
I'll try soon

wcatbb

2008 August 4th, 04:26

After two weeks and thinking that I had shorted my HV30, I went back in today and now it works! Well...the viewfinder doesn't come on any more, but the LCD flips, and who uses the viewfinder anyways?:hv20-smilie03:

Even connecting both leads to the one end of the SPDT switch flips both horizontal and vertical! SO HAPPY! I thought I was out $400 to fix it back to normal after hearing the horror stories, but it turns out that the big zif connection wasn't sitting right (as Jehu suspected).

If you are going to do this, I highly recommend not removing that connection! You'll thank yourself later...

Big ups to JehuGarcia on this one, and good luck to those that are trying this for themselves.

If you're stuck, just take a break. I had my camera strewn all over the kitchen counter for a little over 2 weeks now, but I'm thankful I went as slowly as I did instead of trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

Granted, this was the first time I have ever soldered anything. I'm a dunce when it comes to mods, but the wealth of knowledge here in the forums here gave me the courage to try it out. Thanks guys!

gaemihal2

2008 August 5th, 03:31

Hey, Wcatbb
sounds great! you made it out-
Just start shooting the nice footage with it! :)

gaemihal2

2008 August 22nd, 07:05

After two times of failures and two times of A/S, i made it finally.. hahaha
works totally perfectly! so convenient and useful~

I use a small push switch which has 6 legs.
When pushed, LCD is vertiacally, horizontally flipped simply.

I used some thin wires out of a old hard disk cable.

Don't hesitate to do this ~!:hv20-smilie24:

suta

2008 August 22nd, 09:07

hey gaemihal2,

what switch you use and where get it ?

thx
suta

gaemihal2

2008 August 25th, 08:55

:hv20-smilie24:
hey gaemihal2,

what switch you use and where get it ?

thx
suta

This switch has 6 pins (2row X 3pins) - Push(on/off) switch.
Check out this pic. So small one.

I got it at a electric parts store, well..not in the US,
but you can get it more easier than my country.
There's lots of kinds at the store, and it's only 25cents!! :hv20-smilie24:

suta

2008 August 26th, 05:08

the max size is 7x7mm ?

I found this:
http://shop.unas.hu/shop_artdet.php?shop_id=2612&cikk=unas_908167

greg.stephen

2008 August 26th, 07:53

gaemihal2:

Did you do like on picture A or B?

Thanks
Steph
Which country are you?

gaemihal2

2008 August 26th, 14:53

:)
gaemihal2:

Did you do like on picture A or B?

Thanks
Steph
Which country are you?

Hi, greg.stephen.
I like your diy steadicam! i really want mine soon.

I worked like (B).
First time i tried to do like (A) and then confirmed it worked well. (really happy till this moment-)
But when i was assembling the cam, the worst thing happened again..
The mainboard was dead!! it was the 2nd time for my HV20.
Maybe... there were some problems with my ground-wiring...
Canon A/S engineer said like that.

Finally, I made it with (B) [no ground, each 2 wires from each switch)

Now so good!

thanks.

PS: i'm from Korea. of course, South Korea.

------------------------------------------------------
www.vimeo.com/kimhwan

gaemihal2

2008 August 26th, 19:24

the max size is 7x7mm ?

I found this:
http://shop.unas.hu/shop_artdet.php?shop_id=2612&cikk=unas_908167

From where to where is 7mm???
I don't know what's the max size exactly,
but my switch is

approximately ... looks like the attached pic.

I think, the most important size is (A)!
If you make a hole for this switch at the same place as mine,
The part (A) will stick out from that hole.
So, if (A) is way too long, it might scratch or break the LCD.
it's dangerous!

(A) of mine is about 5mm. it fits well.
you better get the similar one..

thanks

greg.stephen

2008 August 28th, 09:33

OK thanks;
Do you think I have the same problem if I'll make it?

Steph

gaemihal2

2008 August 28th, 12:28

OK thanks;
Do you think I have the same problem if I'll make it?

Steph

I'm not sure..
(A) is the way that I learned from Jehu Garcia, who has done the LCD-flip-hack without any problem a lot of times. He's selling 'LCD-Flip-Hack' service for $50 (+$20 shipping/handling) now.
I know he's doing lika (A).
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=10580

btw, it'll be a good choice to send your cam to him and make it well-done.
This work for flipping isn't way too difficult.. but it you make an unexpected mistake during work, It might take tooooo expensive price in various ways :)

Thanks!

greg.stephen

2008 August 29th, 08:55

ok thanks...
i think I'll do like on this picture...

gaemihal2

2008 August 29th, 12:48

ok thanks...
i think I'll do like on this picture...

Good luck, Greg!

greg.stephen

2008 August 29th, 16:33

except to remove the battery and to be careful to the capacitor 100v,
Do you have another advice? :hv20-smilie15:

Steph

jehugarcia

2008 August 29th, 16:37

except to remove the battery and to be careful to the capacitor 100v,
Do you have another advice? :hv20-smilie15:

Steph

Don't disconnect ribbons...... and for this switch connections should look like this:
http://gallery.me.com/jehug/100173/Picture-2015/web.jpg

wcatbb

2008 August 30th, 05:25

It helped to print out Matthias' PDF just for the sake of having somewhere to put all those screws. Also, make sure you have a dedicated Philips head to unscrew everything. Kit screwdrivers seemed to strip heads a lot easier. Good luck!

duey101

2008 August 30th, 10:18

Ok, seems some are having problems so before I go and do this I'll ask here. Jehu, thanks for your PM to me but I am still not 100% clear, therefore I attach the following images of what I am thinking would be the correct way to wire, one wire from each side of the switch grounded to the chassis and the other two joined and connected to one pole on my G13Ap switch, and then would I also need to ground the center pin on my switch?

Any suggestions would be welcome and wcatbb, since you have the same switch, maybe you can give your input also. Just want to avoid any mishaps on my HV30.

Option A
http://www.snackyserve.com/switch3.jpg

Option B
http://www.snackyserve.com/switch2.jpg

wcatbb

2008 August 31st, 04:26

Pretty much, what Jehu is saying is the exact way you should do it. He was a really big help for me.

Do not disconnect the ribbon connector from the chassis to the LCD. It'll probably be tougher to work with, but I unplugged it without thinking because it was in Matthias PDF and now my Viewfinder no longer powers back on (not a big loss, as LCD works perfectly). It was awkward and frustrating trying to get it back in once you have unplugged it, and I think I partially shorted something out in the process.

OK, so as far as placing DIP, I gradually drilled on the backside of the miniSD slot until the switch fit in snug and added a bit of superglue around the edges. It's just short enough so that the LCD can close all the way.

The switch that is inside the hinge is the trickiest because you have to cram everything inside such a small area and it doesn't seat right, so I found that adding a little JB Weld made everything stay seated just perfectly. If not, I could feel the switch unseat after closing everything up and twisting the LCD. When twisted back, the hinge began to crush the switch, so I'd have to open it up again and re-seat everything. I can see how this would easily snap off if I didn't glue it down.

Your wiring diagram is correct. Basically, you want both the horizontal and vertical switches activated when you flip the DIP and de-activated when the DIP is in neutral or on the opposite side. When grounding things, I initially tried soldering the wires down on top of the screws since the solder doesn't "stick" to the copper. This was too fragile and the leads broke off, so I just ended up screwing the wires underneath the heads.

Good luck with everything, and remember to take your time. I was extra cautious, and let things sit out for 2 weekends of off and on work, but everything turned out perfect.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2812715157_325bd82a3e.jpg?v=0"]http://farm4.static.flickr.com 3291/2812715157_325bd82a3e.jpg?v=0 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/2715514473_f27f96a1f6.jpg?v=0"]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/2715514473_f27f96a1f6.jpg?v=0 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/2715510017_d8677d408a.jpg?v=0 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/2715512331_f6edca12d1.jpg?v=0

duey101

2008 August 31st, 04:52

Ok, thanks a lot for your help and thanks to Jehu also. It's nice to have help from the experienced. I will give it a try, right now I am looking for and old transformer to get the wires from or I may use IDE cable wires. I will let you know how it goes. And again... thanks!

anglerinsider

2008 August 31st, 13:04

wcatbb

2008 August 31st, 18:36

will this switch work?
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062542&cp=&sr=1&origkw=mini+switch&kw=mini+switch&parentPage=search

one on each end and ground to the middle??

also will this be small enoug to mount behind the view finder above the SD slot? if not, any recommendations in US for a good switch?

Thanks!!

I went to Radioshack first, and checked out their switches, but none were small enough to fit above the miniSD slot, so I doubt that one will fit.

You'll have to order the G13AP pictured above from Fry's. It was around $10 IIRC, but a small cost compared to a Letus!

anglerinsider

2008 August 31st, 21:15

ok thanks. I didn't see that exact part on their website but I'll take a look again and go that route if I can get it.

anglerinsider

2008 August 31st, 21:35

ok found it, thought that looked like a push button switch but see now it is a toggle.. I'll go that route, nice and out of the way.. I like it. thanks.

Hearse

2008 September 1st, 00:18

WOW, just finished my mod on my brand new hv30. If you don't have patience DO NOT TRY. My girlfriend thinks I'm nuts, maybe I am for doing this mod. Very happy, thanks for all the advice.

duey101

2008 September 2nd, 12:36

Woooooooohoooooooooo! Got it! This is an awesome mod! Both flips with one flick of a little toggle switch.

THANKS!
1. Mattias for your great PDF, awesome job!
2. Jehu for your great help and wiring explanation and overall contributions to this forum.
3. wcatbb for your explanation and wiring photo. That helped me a great deal.

Now that it's done... not so hard. I didn't solder my negative wire from the hinge switch good enough so it came loose giving me the problems below, but the second round fixed it up. I would say anyone can do this if I can. The second time around I had it all apart in 10 minutes and took 3 minutes to fix the wire. Reassembled in 10 minutes. The key to this... tiny wires. I used minuscule wires from an old mini water pump. Those wires are insulated and super thin. Easy to work with, bend, wrap around stuff and so on.

TIPS:
BE PATIENT! The soldering is frustrating and you need to have a big magnifying glass strapped to your head like I did so you can see what you are doing.

Make diagrams of each screw's place and tape the screws to it or you'll forget where they go. Number the screws as well, take one out, tape it to the diagram, some are shorter than others, some longer, some stainless, etc.

The hinge switch is a nightmare to try and seat because when you solder on the negative side of the hinge switch, that little solder bead gets in the way of the slot where the tab that seats the switch goes, so I just glued on the outer edge with Cyanoacrelate which worked perfect.

Takes about 4 hours to do and that is going slowly and making sure to be very careful.

Listen to soothing classical music.

Walk away for a couple minutes when your soldering breaks off of the negative side of the hinge switch for the 7th time.

Just glue the hinge switch in place instead of trying to seat it again more than 50 times.

Don't touch that capacitor in the front!

FIXED: From yesterday...
Well, I had partial success anyway. Got the thing apart, wired it up, but when I turn it on and open the LCD, the LCD is blank. :hv20-smilie102:

Here are the modes as of now...

Open LCD: No image
But, if I put my finger on the bottom edge of the LCD and push up on the LCD slightly, it comes on, and if I flip the LCD forward (facing away from me, it comes on and stays on. Also, if I then rotate it back very slowly to the normal position (facing me) it will stay on until it almost gets back to the normal position, and then it goes off, but again, if I wiggle it upwards it will come on until I let go of it.
Flip LCD forward, get image like normal, on screen display is normal.

wcatbb

2008 September 3rd, 04:56

By the way, my switch is wired as in Option A in my post above. I think I got it all wired correctly, but maybe something is loose, or could it be the hinge switch isn't in tight? Anyway, any help is appreciated.

Jehu pointed out to me earlier that the "ground" part of the HV20/30 switch doesn't actually have to have a wire soldered to it. Leave that part alone and just ground wires coming from your DIP switch. That part wasn't clear to me at first, but it may be that your ground wires are messing with the completed circuit, especially if they are grounded to the same screw.

Also, the LCD hinge shouldn't be clicking when you open it. When I felt that, it meant that the switch in the hinge had become unseated. I JB welded the sides down and let it sit overnight, and once it was closed up, it stayed for good.

Hope this helps.

duey101

2008 September 3rd, 05:31

I also recommend using the G13AP switch which I got from mouser.com (http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=707CHyav%252bS5xOhkD%252btKh 2Q%3D%3D) and costs 4 bucks. I used a small diamond rat tail file to bore out the hole for my switch a little at a time until the switch went in with some moderate pressure, no glue, fits very tight, doesn't move, works perfect.

http://snackyserve.com/needle.jpg

duey101

2008 September 3rd, 05:34

Hey wcatbb, well, I didn't know that and mine works with the wires on there anyway so maybe I don't need to change them, wish I would have known that before, but anyway, mine works great!

The click went away when I put the screw in the front of the LCD plate. It wasn't fastened properly yet. All good now.

greg.stephen

2008 September 3rd, 09:03

It's not dangerous to connect the both switches (horiz+vertic) together on only one switch??
Or it's better to put 2 switches (with h+v separately)??
Thanks
Steph

PeterC

2008 September 4th, 18:56

It's not dangerous to connect the both switches (horiz+vertic) together on only one switch??
Or it's better to put 2 switches (with h+v separately)??
Thanks
Steph

You can connect both hinge switches to one switch if you use a DPDT switch: the one switch has two separate circuits inside so that you can connect two separate circuits simultaneously.

I wouldn't recommend connecting it with a SPST or a single DIP switch as I would assume a few problems:
1) You have to make sure to connect the signal wire of each hinge switch or else you may end up shorting one of the hinge switches. This would cause the LCD to turn off and the viewfinder to turn on instead.
2) If you get it to work properly, you won't be able to get the LCD to function entirely properly... i.e. when flipping the LCD to film yourself, normally only one of the hinge switches would be activated (the vertical hinge switch) but since the two signal wires are connected, when one of them get activated, they both get activated so the LCD will also flip horizontally.

Again, if you want to activate both hinge switches with only one switch, use a DPDT switch.

greg.stephen

2008 September 5th, 09:13

thanks Peter...:hv20-smilie77:
I'll remember it.

matthias.martin

2008 September 5th, 19:30

Hi everybody
Today I made some long overdue improvements to my PDF explaining the whole disassembly process, which now also includes all the relevant input from Jehu Garcia (superduper diagram) and some other things.
Just ignore the silly microcontroller stuff if you can ;-) .
Here it is:
http://www.cevigossau.ch/pdf/HV20-disassembly.pdf

Hope it will see some use.

anglerinsider

2008 September 9th, 11:31

how do you remove the flex circuit connectors? do you pull off the white connector to the pins? especially that one on the top of the camera, not sure how you get in to get that out and back in again...

duey101

2008 September 10th, 00:40

Hi anglerinsider, look at my disassembling/hack (http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=15926) video for a view inside. If you want to take off that small wire on the flex cable that connects the front assembly,this one...

http://www.snackyserve.com/flex1.jpg

You can just pull it off with your fingers, it comes out easy enough, easy to put back on too, just be very careful and DON'T FORCE ANYTHING!.

The flex cable on the top of the camera which runs to the LCD comes out when you push the black locking tab back on the white ZIF connector...

http://www.snackyserve.com/flex2.jpg

To get it back in, I hold the camera sideways (upside down) so the black locking tab drops down due to gravity, then I slide the cable back in and then push the black locking tab back into place and make sure it is in tight, and then check with a magnifying glass to insure it is in straight. This takes patience as that cable is a bit difficult to get back in. Use curved tweezers, or something similar with soft tips, like rubber tips or something. I used the rubber tips that came with the tweezers I bought and those were part of a mobile phone tool kit...

http://www.snackyserve.com/tools.jpg

You don't want to scratch or break any of those connectors, so just take your time. Maybe the videos will help you.

anglerinsider

2008 September 10th, 10:47

thanks, that is extremely helpful. I hadn't seen that video either, thank you very much!

scoggins

2008 September 15th, 17:55

Just finished the Flip hack on the Horizontal and vertical Switches with thanks to all these detailed examples from you guys and the PDF dismantling instructions really made it easier - Its not difficult but its hard opening your new Camera and soldering - cutting and modding and it all could fail. But it worked so thanks for everyone for sharing valuable information - If i can help anyone with pointers please ask but i am no expert - here is some photos of the finished Camera with static DOF - DIN flip switches behind the LCD and Velcro'd LCD sheild.

duey101

2008 September 16th, 12:05

Good job, looks nice and clean. :hv20-smilie03:

magicdude923

2008 September 17th, 19:32

hey everyone, i just purchased 2 of these switches from radio shack and since there is no real way to see what side is what in regards to soldering, maybe one of you guys can help.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?sr=1&support=support&accessories=accessories&origkw=switch&summary=summary&custRatings=custRatings&productId=3020764&cp=&kw=switch&currentTab=techSpecs&techSpecs=techSpecs&parentPage=search&features=features&tab=summary

koolpenguin89

2008 September 17th, 19:51

Magicdude, please do a search next time before starting a new thread.

Dylan

magicdude923

2008 September 17th, 20:15

sorry, i understood that there was a flip hack thread, i just wanted help with this specific problem

koolpenguin89

2008 September 17th, 20:55

You should be able to get that help here. I can't help though. I tried the flip hack and now my LCD doesn't turn off, lol. But someone should answer your question.

Dylan

magicdude923

2008 September 24th, 18:44

TeeSav

2008 September 25th, 07:33

AHHHH, don't hurt the HV's people. I nearly started crying when viewed the gruesome images especially those that Jerry Lee put up.
If you do that and you mamamama it up you've voided the warranty so then you'd have to buy another one or pay for repairs. try getting an external monitor you can get them cheep nowadays

jehugarcia

2008 October 2nd, 00:06

im gonna try to revive this thread and just wanna get some help with my hack, i have this switchhttp://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?sr=1&support=support&accessories=accessories&origkw=switch&summary=summary&custRatings=custRatings&productId=3020764&cp=&kw=switch&currentTab=techSpecs&techSpecs=techSpecs&parentPage=search&features=features&tab=summary but it has six prongs on the bottom, I have 2 switches and just need some help, maybe someone can map out the prongs on the bottom.

Your connections should very close to this: Except dont joint the 2 red wires just connect one on the top pin and the other on the bottom pin, and the 2 center pins go to ground.
http://gallery.me.com/jehug/100173/Picture-2015/web.jpg

magicdude923

2008 October 2nd, 02:21

I'm sorry I don't full understand what your are trying to tell me and before anything I would like to say thanks you for addressing my question. Maybe if you could
Draw up a schematic with my switch. That may be asking a lot. I will prob buy it from you anyways and also I asked on you adapter thread, where do you pit the concealed switch for the hack and if so a pic. Thanks so much

danielmarini

2008 October 22nd, 02:49

I'm sorry
anyone knows if there is a disassembling instruction for flip hack the sony hdr-hc9???
thx

matray

2008 October 23rd, 10:26

Hi,
I'm no expert in electronics (or english...) and i'm still wondering what kind of switch to use. So I gather all switches I've found so you can help me decide ! I'm thinking the 1 switch solution is more simple but seems more tricky to make. So here is a pic of what I've found here in Paris, France...
Which one would you or have you use ?
http://www.matray.org/xchange/switches-selectronic.jpg
And does 11W for the soldering is power enough ?

wentakura

2008 November 28th, 07:18

The footage IS rotated when captured, so yo have to rotate it again during editing. Otherwise your footage is upside down. What you see on the LCD is what you get on your computer.

Hope that helps.

Hi, I recently did the fliphack on my HV30 and so the image is rightfliped on the DISPLAY. Now when it comes to capture the footage in the COMPUTER the image is not right. It´s upside down and mirrored.
Did I understand it right? You only flip the CAMDISPLAY not the FOOTAGE or did I missed something here?