Osama bin Laden dead!

[Duke]

Osama bin Laden has been killed by a team of American operatives in Pakistan. Obama gives a speech.

[Daniel Rutter]

Yep. I must say, I couldn't care less...

[paperkut12]

Good.

[Almohada]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68_3rjp0Rkw

[Bif]

That film is total crap!

While I'm retired from active duty I still have frequent contact with many still in uniform. We have an all volunteer force, NO DRAFT, all volunteers and when the orders were issued these fine troops picked up their packs, shouldered arms, and set off to do a job they believed in.

It is absolutely amazing how many still, after two or three deployments, stay in the service and go back again.

Yes, no WMD were found in Iraq. But the fact of the matter is Saddam Hussein "postured" as if he had them and as if he would use them; he pulled a colossal bluff. Every major nation's intelligence service came to the same conclusion, that he had those weapons.

After Sept 11th 2001 Saddam Hussein showed interest in allying with Al Quaida but Bin Laden never could stand him. Just the same Saddam Hussein opened up an Al Quaida training camp in Baghdad, and showed TV footage of it a few months before our troops went in. He tolerated an Ansar Al Islam training camp on the border with Iran. Al Quaida members retreating from Afghanistan found refuge in Irag and in many cases medical treatment and it looked very much like the next threat of attack on us could very well come from Iraq.

So this guy in this film is full of bullshit.

I no longer hold the clearance I had while working intel on active duty, and while working as a civilian photographer at an air force base where I had to get into the "tightest cracks" on base to document "whatever", but at certain military reunions I still get to sit in on unclassified briefings and still get a fair perspective on these things.

Bruce Foreman

[STUDIO32MID]

Perhaps footage of the Bin Laden showdown would be a great action sequence. Perhaps even reminiscent of the Vietnam days etc with choppers involved and perhaps dust hovering etc with these Navy seals. We need some footage!


That film is total crap!

While I'm retired from active duty I still have frequent contact with many still in uniform. We have an all volunteer force, NO DRAFT, all volunteers and when the orders were issued these fine troops picked up their packs, shouldered arms, and set off to do a job they believed in.

It is absolutely amazing how many still, after two or three deployments, stay in the service and go back again.

Yes, no WMD were found in Iraq. But the fact of the matter is Saddam Hussein "postured" as if he had them and as if he would use them; he pulled a colossal bluff. Every major nation's intelligence service came to the same conclusion, that he had those weapons.

After Sept 11th 2001 Saddam Hussein showed interest in allying with Al Quaida but Bin Laden never could stand him. Just the same Saddam Hussein opened up an Al Quaida training camp in Baghdad, and showed TV footage of it a few months before our troops went in. He tolerated an Ansar Al Islam training camp on the border with Iran. Al Quaida members retreating from Afghanistan found refuge in Irag and in many cases medical treatment and it looked very much like the next threat of attack on us could very well come from Iraq.

So this guy in this film is full of bullshit.

I no longer hold the clearance I had while working intel on active duty, and while working as a civilian photographer at an air force base where I had to get into the "tightest cracks" on base to document "whatever", but at certain military reunions I still get to sit in on unclassified briefings and still get a fair perspective on these things.

Bruce Foreman

[KingDucky]

I think it's stupid how everybody here is celebrating and having parties and everything, all over his death. He's just one guy. If obama was shot would america completely shut down and stop? no.

[Gillvane]

Every dead radical Islamist is progress.

Radical Islam is just the new face of Communism.

Just replace Marx with Muhammed. Either way, it's totalitarianism and oppression.

If they send the Navy Seals after you, kiss your ass goodbye. They are bad ass.

[Gillvane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68_3rjp0Rkw



And there are aliens at Area 51, Obama wasn't born in Hawaii, The US planned 9/11, Elvis isn't dead, Princess Diana was killed by the Royal Family, and no one ever REALLY landed on the moon.

funny video.

[blondandfun]

It was worth every penny of the $1 trillion spent...

[Bif]

I think it's stupid how everybody here is celebrating and having parties and everything, all over his death. He's just one guy. If obama was shot would america completely shut down and stop? no.

This "just one guy" gave the approval and "marching orders" for the attacks of Sept 11, 2001 where just short of 3000 persons were murdered. Picture female flight attendants aboard the aircraft slashed with box cutters until they bled to death, picture people aboard the flight that hit the Pentagon realizing they were not going to survive much longer. Picture the folks trapped in the higher floors of the Trade Towers who called home to say goodbye to loved ones, knowing they were not going to get out of there alive...

Reflect on these things and then tell me how "stupid" it is "how everybody here is celebrating".

How soon America forgets...

Bin Laden got off too easy with just a bullet to the head, way too merciful.

Bruce Foreman

[paperkut12]

Bin Laden got off too easy with just a bullet to the head, way too merciful.

Exactly! Agreed with everything you said, Bif. This guy is pure evil and people SHOULD be celebrating and hope it brings at least a little relief or whatever the word, to people who lost loved ones due to his heinous acts. He's a symbol of what she be eliminated from this world.

[KingDucky]

I never said I wasn't glad he was dead, I am. But I think it's ridiculous how people are shooting off fireworks and having party's and declaring this a national holiday. It's bogus. ITS ONLY ONE GUY IN A HUGE NETWORK OF AWFUL PEOPLE. We need to eliminate all of them...

And people somehow think Al Queda is going to magically stop because we killed their figure head?! Smh.


This "just one guy" gave the approval and "marching orders" for the attacks of Sept 11, 2001 where just short of 3000 persons were murdered.
Because I'm sure no one in this country has ever given orders to kill innocent people in the middle east..



I'm not arguing or saying that is death was a bad thing. It's great they finally got him, and he deserved to die, but we didn't win a freaking war here, just got rid of a mascot...IMHO.

[VideJo]

And there are aliens at Area 51, . . . .
And that is exactly where Bin Ladens body is stashed away now!

[VideJo]

Radical Islam is just the new face of Communism.
Nice to make your aqcaintance, Mr. McCarthy!

[Daniel Rutter]

Because I'm sure no one in this country has ever given orders to kill innocent people in the middle east..
This.

Bif, I don't want to disrespect the fact that you served... but I believe this "war on terror" is utter bullcrap. There is evidence that Bin Laden could have been caught and punished for his "crimes" a damn sight earlier in the piece than now. The U.S Government chose not to go after him. Then 9/11 happened.
When this joker declared war on America, they should have done what they do to any other joker... shoved a bomb up his ass and let him rot in hell.

I'm with Ducky here... he's dead. Wow... Who cares? He belonged to a whole network of people that are executing their "Holy War" or whatever they call it. Cutting of the head of this snake doesn't do anything... there'll be another snake, another body and another head...

I honestly don't understand this. Bin Laden didn't singlehandedly kill these people. He ordered the attacks (supposedly), and his "henchmen" carried out the orders. The only reason people are even celebrating is because the U.S Government laid all the blame at Bin Ladens feet. Giving the people what they wanted, someone to blame.

But, even then... how true is this thing anyway? Is Bin Laden really dead? Or is it a way for the U.S to make it's citizens feel all warm and cozy? If he is dead... don't expect it to become peaceful. If anything, it's just opened a whole new can of worms and we (as allies of the U.S) can all expect much much worse to come our way.

[blondandfun]

I don't understand it

You do not understand it because you didn't have to work for it, plain and simple.

I have relatives here in the south who's power has been out for a full week from tornados, and they were more ecstatic about this news than their power being restored.

Nothing good comes without hard work and sticking with it. That guy from Harvard in the video and many others wanted Obama to pull everyone out within 6 months of his term.

[Bob Sanders]

This guy is pure evil

Nah.
No more or less evil than any other fueled by American hate. The USA has seen it before... even from their own people. What's so amazing and evil is the fact that it took dam near tens years and who knows how many millions to get him.

[Bob Sanders]

After Sept 11th 2001 Saddam Hussein showed interest in allying with Al Quaida but Bin Laden never could stand him. Just the same Saddam Hussein opened up an Al Quaida training camp in Baghdad, and showed TV footage of it a few months before our troops went in. He tolerated an Ansar Al Islam training camp on the border with Iran. Al Quaida members retreating from Afghanistan found refuge in Irag and in many cases medical treatment and it looked very much like the next threat of attack on us could very well come from Iraq.

Sorry Bif... THIS is crap.

Iraq and the twin towers had NOTHING to do with one another and Bush had NO business sending American troops in there. There were no WMD and they bloody well knew it before they even went in. Bush didn't like Hussien and was looking for a reason to kill him over the threat on Bush senior. Bush used the American military and the American people for little more than personal vendetta.

I remember what our Canadian Prime minister said when Bush came knocking on the door for support.... "You can't invade a Country just because you don't like its Government".
I have never been more proud to be a Canadian.

Bush is a murderer who deserves to be strung up.

[Ian-T]

Joseph Stalin

George Bush

Adolf Hitler

Who's the better man? (rhetoric) ....ok...this might be a bit extreme...but you get my point

I served my country proudly also. But right is right and wrong is wrong. I'm glad they finally nabbed this nutcase however. He was the person we should have gone after from the start. Saddam was a scapegoat. He deserved to be strung up like he was. But there's a right way and a wrong way to go about it. In that case our administration went out on their own to get their own justice.

What Obama did was go about it correctly. All the way down to how the nutcase was buried.

Though the end result of the Iraq war (hanging of Saddam) was what we wanted...I just can't go on defending George Bushes actions. Why people still....to this day....defend the man is beyond me.

[HueyNRolf]

Joseph Stalin

George Bush

Adolf Hitler

Who's the better man? (rhetoric)

Hitler and Stalin had mustaches ?

[Ian-T]

Hitler and Stalin had mustaches ?

Ha ha ha.. Is that what it was?

[paperkut12]

And people somehow think Al Queda is going to magically stop because we killed their figure head?! Smh.

I don't think anyone is expecting that..

[KingDucky]

Paperkut some people are. Which is why I put Smh. Shake my head.

[Bif]

Sorry Bif... THIS is crap.

Iraq and the twin towers had NOTHING to do with one another

I never said it did.

We put assets in place to bomb in Afghanistan in support of the Northern Alliance who with that support were able to begin "kicking Taliban ass". We had co-ordinators and observers in with the Northern Alliance. Then we put in ground troops to the extent we could without being seen as "invaders" (read Afghan history to see why we had to do this, no foreign military has ever lasted for long in Afghanistan).

We and the Northern Alliance had Al Qaida and the Taliban cornered in Tora Bora but we had to let the Afghans take the lead and they were just slow enough the "bad guys" slipped away retreating into Pakistan, Iraq, and Iran. The "elements" retreating into Iraq to some extent tried to hook up with Ansar-Al Islam on the border with Iraq, others received medical treatment in Iraq and began looking to link up with supporters in Iraq. Saddam Hussein had double agents feeding us false info about what weapons of mass destruction he was prepared to employ.

Our intel was faulty. The Carter administration had pretty much "gutted" our HUMINT capabilities so we had very few to none in the way of agent/contacts on the ground. (In the course of my job at an air force training base I did "emergency" passport photos of definitely Middle Eastern individuals as we obviously tried to recover some of that capability during the first Gulf war).

If you haven't worked in "intel" you don't understand that it is not an "exact science". You deal in "indications", you deal with "flow" of communication, movement of materials, persons, and vehicles and you analyze all that and try to see what conclusions you can draw. And if you don't have agents on the ground with contacts that can provide details from inside (HUMINT) the conclusions may not be correct but may LOOK accurate.

And that's what happened with the WMD. I'm not working in intel anymore but at annual re-unions of those of us who served in a command that had that as it's mission, I get to sit in on a briefing (not the currently classified stuff) of what's happening and what "our command" is involved in. The "intel" indicated strongly the next attack on us would likely come from Al Qaida "assets" reconstituted in Iraq with Saddam Hussein's support.



Bush didn't like Hussien and was looking for a reason to kill him over the threat on Bush senior. Bush used the American military and the American people for little more than personal vendetta.


Unfounded conjecture. Those who promote this know nothing about the man.

I have met Bush, had a conversation with him when he was Governor of Texas and just before he declared his candidacy for the president's office. I got to "take the measure" of the man face to face, plus I've talked with several folks who knew him personally. He has a strong sense of integrity and if he didn't Laura Bush wouldn't put up with him.

The "Bush lied" crowd have not met him personally and flat don't know anything about what they are "braying". They are either politically motivated or have simply listened to others and don't think for themselves.

Here's another "sign". The military retirements I photographed very few received letters of congratulations from President Clinton. It was offered, they chose not to have this happen. Very shortly after Bush was inaugurated a letter from the President was presented at EVERY MILITARY RETIREMENT I was assigned to photograph. Our military trusted him.



I remember what our Canadian Prime minister said when Bush came knocking on the door for support.... "You can't invade a Country just because you don't like its Government".
I have never been more proud to be a Canadian.


Each government makes it's own choice and commitment. Great Britain stood by us (I almost choked when President Obama sent back the bust of Churchill Prime Minister Blair had presented to us as a sign of their moral support after Sept 11th).

But I am proud to have Canada as a neighbor. We can have much in common.



Bush is a murderer who deserves to be strung up.

Unfounded bunk.

Bruce Foreman

[Bob Sanders]

Though the end result of the Iraq war (hanging of Saddam) was what we wanted...I just can't go on defending George Bushes actions. Why people still....to this day....defend the man is beyond me.
HUH??
Agreed... defending George Bush is stupidity. He should have been strung up right beside Saddam. But Saddam wasn't even on the American people's minds.... until Bush conveniently stuck him there...so it's not what "WE" wanted... it's what BUSH wanted.

Regardless to all of that... and regardless to the rather cruel dictatorship that Saddam held.... Iraq WAS in fact a somewhat stable Country and the ONLY thing Bush accomplished with his illegal invasion was to destabilize it. Well.... like it or not... the great USA now has a responsibility to the Iraq people to once again deliver stability, regardless to the cost.

[Bob Sanders]

I never said it did.

We put assets in place to bomb in Afghanistan in support of the Northern Alliance who with that support were able to begin "kicking Taliban ass". We had co-ordinators and observers in with the Northern Alliance. Then we put in ground troops to the extent we could without being seen as "invaders" (read Afghan history to see why we had to do this, no foreign military has ever lasted for long in Afghanistan).



We and the Northern Alliance had Al Qaida and the Taliban cornered in Tora Bora but we had to let the Afghans take the lead and they were just slow enough the "bad guys" slipped away retreating into Pakistan, Iraq, and Iran. The "elements" retreating into Iraq to some extent tried to hook up with Ansar-Al Islam on the border with Iraq, others received medical treatment in Iraq and began looking to link up with supporters in Iraq. Saddam Hussein had double agents feeding us false info about what weapons of mass destruction he was prepared to employ.

Our intel was faulty. The Carter administration had pretty much "gutted" our HUMINT capabilities so we had very few to none in the way of agent/contacts on the ground. (In the course of my job at an air force training base I did "emergency" passport photos of definitely Middle Eastern individuals as we obviously tried to recover some of that capability during the first Gulf war).

If you haven't worked in "intel" you don't understand that it is not an "exact science". You deal in "indications", you deal with "flow" of communication, movement of materials, persons, and vehicles and you analyze all that and try to see what conclusions you can draw. And if you don't have agents on the ground with contacts that can provide details from inside (HUMINT) the conclusions may not be correct but may LOOK accurate.

And that's what happened with the WMD. I'm not working in intel anymore but at annual re-unions of those of us who served in a command that had that as it's mission, I get to sit in on a briefing (not the currently classified stuff) of what's happening and what "our command" is involved in. The "intel" indicated strongly the next attack on us would likely come from Al Qaida "assets" reconstituted in Iraq with Saddam Hussein's support.

What a total load of BULLSH!T.

The USA didn't invade Iraq because 'the bad guys slipped away into iraq'. They invaded because of WMD... or at least that was the 'story' they were going with. Before they even went in they had knowledge that the 'intel' may be faulty (and there is plenty of evidence to this effect today).... they just didn't give a crap.

Once again The Taliban and Bin Laden had very little to do with Iraq... UNTIL.... the USA invaded.

The Carter administration??? Bush invades a Country illegally and somehow its Carter's fault??? What planet are you living on???
There was a TOTAL breakdown in communication between the head spy agencies.... CIA... FBI... etc. This breakdown had ALWAYS been there. It was there LOOOONG before Carter. That's what caused the initial confusion. By the time they put it all together, Bush made up his mind that it didn't matter anymore.


If you haven't worked in "intel" you don't understand that it is not an "exact science".
Yes well other Countries managed to work out the inexact science pretty well didn't they:hv20-smilie77: Almost all other Countries (excluding Britain) saw this as an illegal invasion without just cause. Now is the USA REALLY that dumb


. The "intel" indicated strongly the next attack on us would likely come from Al Qaida "assets" reconstituted in Iraq with Saddam Hussein's support.
There is absolutely NO evidence in any way, shape, or form to this date to support that. That was nothing more than pollitiaicians screwing with the brains of the American people... in other words... the Government lying to its people.... after the fact I might add.


He has a strong sense of integrity
Bush was little more than a drunk who rode Daddy's coat tails all the way to the White House... and you see integrity in this??? [I shake my head]

[HueyNRolf]

<-- Pulls up a chair.

[Almohada]

Hey Bob, did you see the link I posted with Bugliosi?

[Bif]

This.

Bif, I don't want to disrespect the fact that you served... but I believe this "war on terror" is utter bullcrap.

Sept 11th 2001 was the day after my 63rd birthday. I had been fully retired from federal civil service just 3 weeks short of a year (25 years since retiring from active duty military) and I had to stay glued to the TV watching the second plane slam into the undamaged tower, watching people including some women jump to their death to avoid being "seared" to death. I listened to recordings of folks who knew they were going to die both in the air and in the upper floors of the towers.

One of the Pentagon casualties was a woman who used to work here at our training base and was very highly thought of and liked.

I suppose I could go on and on, but I take all that happened seriously. Had I not been over 60 I would have volunteered to be "recalled", and would willingly have shouldered my pack and picked up an M-16. I take this "war on terror" very seriously. We face a fanatic unrelenting enemy, whose "combatants" don't even care whether they survive the battle or not. They don't respect life, their own or others as is evidenced by the degree to which they try to wreak carnage among not combatant populations.

Have you watched the videos of any beheadings? I have, to try to comprehend the enemy we face (I've seen Nicholas Berg's beheading at the hands of Al Musab Al-Zarqawi). Think it's just us, Americans?

Aussies were targets in the bombings at Bali.

EVERYONE was "fair game" in Mumbai. I've read and studied accounts of survivors of that one (pass out a printed handout of that with every Defensive Shooting class I teach).



There is evidence that Bin Laden could have been caught and punished for his "crimes" a damn sight earlier in the piece than now. The U.S Government chose not to go after him. Then 9/11 happened.
When this joker declared war on America, they should have done what they do to any other joker... shoved a bomb up his ass and let him rot in hell.

This is correct. I blame the Clinton administration for this. It seems Democratic Party administrations are so "politically correct" they don't want to act on something like this. They did toss a "token" missile in and hit an aspirin factory and they made a half hearted missile attack on his training compound in Afghanistan, but stopped there.



I'm with Ducky here... he's dead. Wow... Who cares? He belonged to a whole network of people that are executing their "Holy War" or whatever they call it. Cutting of the head of this snake doesn't do anything... there'll be another snake, another body and another head...

He was the "figurehead" although his actual influence and control over Al Qaida had waned and was not likely effective when he couldn't dare "stick his head up". Taking him out does send a clear message, we can go in and get guys like him if we persist.

Sure. Ayman Al Zawahiri will probably step up and declare himself head of Al Qaida. But he's not Bin Laden, he just sat at Bin Ladens feet as second and we'll eventually get him. But long before we got Bin Laden we had disrupted Al Qaida enough to where the main threat recently has been from "splinter" groups. The battle, war, whatever is far from over.

But I admire how Seal Team 6 (it's a fictional label) did it, the precision, the skills, and the fact they got in, engaged the guards, cleared the house, and took him out. Identified him, took the body out, loaded up in the 3 choppers still functional, destroyed the one that wouldn't fly, and got out of there with only 40 minutes on the ground and no US casualties.

These guys train hard and you don't even want to see them behind gun barrels. Whatever "hard as nails" guards Bin Laden had in that compound were no match for them. It gives me a great amount of satisfaction that the last thing Osama Bin Laden saw in this life was Americans pointing guns at him.



I honestly don't understand this. Bin Laden didn't singlehandedly kill these people. He ordered the attacks (supposedly), and his "henchmen" carried out the orders. The only reason people are even celebrating is because the U.S Government laid all the blame at Bin Ladens feet. Giving the people what they wanted, someone to blame.

Well, I saw the video of him after the attack of Sept 11th, grinning and saying "Allahu akbar".

More than good enough for me. There was plenty of evidence, confirmed by interrogations of the "high value targets" like Kalid Shaik Mohammed in which they bragged of being behind it under Bin Laden.

Bruce Foreman

[Bob Sanders]

<-- Pulls up a chair.

Yes... well just talking about this A$$HOLE makes my blood boil. Bush has to be about the biggest dick to walk this earth. And it's not just him... but his whole crooked administration. There's Dick Chaney... every single word out of the guys mouth is a lie... There's the one (forgot his name) who leaked CIA names and got off scott free because Bush pardoned him... and then Rumsfeld with his "shock and awe" rubbish. I'm absolutely amazed that these TOTAL CLOWNS didn't get us into WW3 with the Russians or something.

[Bob Sanders]

Hey Bob, did you see the link I posted with Bugliosi?

Yes. I hope they string Bush up.

[Bob Sanders]

I blame the Clinton administration for this.

Yes... you would wouldn't you. Carter... Clinton.... there seems to be a common element here :hv20-smilie77:

Well just for the record... it was a DEMOCRAT that finally got Bin Laden.... after the A$$HOLE republican failed.... big time.


But I admire how Seal Team 6 (it's fictional label) did it, the precision, the skills,
Oh please... how about right time.. right place... and lots of luck. If it was all about precision and skill then why did this take almost a decade???

Off on a side note....
I should also point out that it's a DEMOCRAT that's having to clean up the Republican generated Wall Street Housing mess.... but somehow I think you'll find reason to blame that on Johnson... or Kennedy... or Dwight.... anyone BUT a republican.... right

[Almohada]

Who thinks they're going to release his picture? I still want proof.

[Bif]

Yes... you would wouldn't you. Carter... Clinton.... there seems to be a common element here :hv20-smilie77:

If you're implying that I'm a Republican party member...I'm an independent. An independent conservative who has read our nation's Constitution, something our lawmakers obviously didn't do until the new "Tea Party" supported majority made our House of Representatives do immediately after being sworn in. And no, I'm not a Tea Party member either, although I've been to a couple of rallies and seen for myself they are most lied about bunch in our mainstream media.

Carter's administration cut back our intel capabilities, broke off contact with our HUMINT (Human Intelligence) contacts, discredited the CIA, and set the stage for the Islamic Revolution in Iran (he pulled the rug out from underneath the Shah. The Shah may not have been the nicest ruler going but he was worlds better than Ayatollah Khomeini).

Clinton managed to lose the trust of our military, failed to take Bin Laden when offered him on a platter. Further weakened the CIA.



Well just for the record... it was a DEMOCRAT that finally got Bin Laden.... after the A$$HOLE republican failed.... big time.

No it wasn't. It was solid CIA intel done by those who hadn't left when Obama damaged that organization with publishing classified interrogation techniques and declared CIA operatives could find themselves prosecuted for some of what they do (there was a bit of an exodus of experience over that). HUMINT contacts the CIA had managed to finally reestablish suddenly could no longer trust CIA operatives. But some stayed on board.

The best intel seems to have come from Guantanamo (good thing they weren't able to really shut it down) and from some of the now banned techniques (Our aircrews go through training in which they experience these same techniques from the detainees point of view). It takes a long time, seems like it took two years to get the identity of the courier they finally were able to track to the compound. And awhile to realize it was probably Bin Laden there (it was almost unbelievable he wasn't staying in a cave somewhere).

Then the team that went in. They get the other part of the credit.

Presidents don't achieve this. There has been a standing "capture or kill" order out on Osama Bin Laden under two presidents. One Republican, one democrat. Each one has regularly consulted their director of the CIA on what could be happening. Leon Panetta, to his credit, attempted to support the CIA and limit the damage done to it by President Obama, Obama near "eviscerated" that organization.

The credit goes to intel operatives both in and out of the CIA who "stayed on the job" and did their best in our country's interest, not as political personages, but as people dedicated to what they were hired on to do. And to the military folks, the Seals, who meet unbelievable standards and train to a degree we can only image, then go in a do the job.



Oh please... how about right time.. right place... and lots of luck. If it was all about precision and skill then why did this take almost a decade???

There is always some of that.

[HueyNRolf]

So that's mission accomplished in Afghanistan, right?
When are the troops coming home?

[Almohada]

...it was almost unbelievable he wasn't staying in a cave somewhere.

Why would he stay in a cave? Isn't the best hiding spot located in a place where no one will check? Right under their nose.
I don't think the most wanted man would live in a cave...

[Bif]

So that's mission accomplished in Afghanistan, right?
When are the troops coming home?

I'd like to see them come home. History shows that no foreign army has been able to remain in Afghanistan for the long haul. The British couldn't, the Russians tried twice, that place is just too lawless and too stubborn in ways we don't understand.

But if we pull out too soon, the Taliban moves right back in, Al Qaida "reconstitutes" with the blessings of the Taliban and the planning for attacks on America start again. And we're just the first "in line", they'll start in on other nations when they have us.

Bruce Foreman

[blondandfun]

Bush was little more than a drunk who rode Daddy's coat tails all the way to the White House... and you see integrity in this??? [I shake my head]

He stopped drinking at 40. In the business world you're called a "kid" at 40. I can name you several self made Billionaires who admitted to heavy drinking and drugs throughout their youth.

Regarding riding dad's coat, Intelligent people use the resources they have at their disposal. Nobody forced him into politics, it was his own success. His dad did not force everyone's hands to vote for him...twice.

[Almohada]

"The at-sea burial of Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden was videotaped and probably will be publicly released soon, two Pentagon officials said Monday."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42859914/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/?GT1=43001

[Bob Sanders]

Carter's administration cut back our intel capabilities, broke off contact with our HUMINT (Human Intelligence) contacts, discredited the CIA, and set the stage for the Islamic Revolution in Iran (he pulled the rug out from underneath the Shah. The Shah may not have been the nicest ruler going but he was worlds better than Ayatollah Khomeini).
Top dogs in the CIA stepped down during the Bush administration... not the Carter.
You just gave Clinton crap for not coming on strong enough with Bin Laden, and now you're giving Carter crap for over doing it with Shah?? Which way are you going here???


Clinton managed to lose the trust of our military If that's the case then it's the military who failed. This isn't a democracy... the military takes orders from the Pres.... trust is a non issue.


failed to take Bin Laden when offered him on a platter. I would suggest that much the same happened with Bush.




No it wasn't. It was solid CIA intel done by those who hadn't left when Obama damaged that organization with publishing classified interrogation techniques and declared CIA operatives could find themselves prosecuted for some of what they do (there was a bit of an exodus of experience over that). HUMINT contacts the CIA had managed to finally reestablish suddenly could no longer trust CIA operatives.
Let me get this straight... It was the Bush campaign who illegally leaked a CIA name to the press thereby ending a career and endangering lives... but you're saying the Obama Admin is the one who did the damage when they opened the book on ILLEGAL interrogation techniques???
You're also saying that Obama was not at all notified and issued no instruction what so ever in the capture/death of Bin Laden??
Come on... don't be silly.


The best intel seems to have come from Guantanamo Those in Guantanamo had been there for YEARS. Please don't try and tell me that intel up to 4 years old was actually any good today. And BTW please tell me where you're getting this info from because something tells me you're making it up.


(good thing they weren't able to really shut it down) and from some of the now banned techniques They were banned BEFORE... that's why this took place in Guantanamo and not on US soil. Guantanamo is a perfect example of why Americans are hated in the first place. You talk justice, honesty and integrity on one side of the mouth... and then pull this rubbish on the other side.


Presidents don't achieve this. Sorry... you're wrong. This will go down in the history books as "Bin Laden dead on Obama's watch"


The credit goes to intel operatives both in and out of the CIA who "stayed on the job" and did their best in our country's interest, You mean 'did their best to salvage and correct the crappy intel they spewed all over in the beginning'

[Bob Sanders]

He stopped drinking at 40.

Yeah... sure he did ;)

Tell me... did you ever see that tape where he talks about seeing ghosts in the oval office?

[Almohada]

Tell me... did you ever see that tape where he talks about seeing ghosts in the oval office?

Link us!

[Daniel Rutter]

"The at-sea burial of Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden was videotaped and probably will be publicly released soon, two Pentagon officials said Monday."

Reading this, I find it funny they want to "prove" he is dead.
Well... it would raise questions whether these "allegations" are true as to whether or not he is dead.

This argument has gone way over my head. I'm not even remotely interested in politics or "army talk".

As far as "Not having my own opinion"... that's bullshit. I have an opinion, none that is influenced by any one "source". I take my opinion on the fact that Bush cheated his way into politics, he invaded a country on the grounds of false information and someone pinned all this other crap on some guy they all knew.

As far as knowing it from any one side... I hear it from all sides... and it all sounds like bullshit. One thing is completely obvious, and this will no doubt insult a few of you. America has many a murderous man among them, and they all call for blood on any homeland attack. God forbid any country that doesn't toe the American line. Who knows, Australia might tell your government to suck a nut... and we'll get nuked on grounds of "WMD's" or "Harboring terrorists".

As far as "terrorists" go... America needs to sort out it's problems inside it's own country first before wandering out into the world and "trying to fix other people's problems".

[VideJo]

Remember the corps of AH, the Russians hid after WWII? Lots of people doubted the fact that Hitler died in april 1945. Until his remains were thorouhly inspected and proof cam up. So I think this will also ahppen in this case. people want to see him dead.

[Daniel Rutter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpBPVkpmoeg&

Wow. The funny thing is, I agree with this guy... it's a hoax. There's a lot of "conspiracy theorists" floating so many different bowls of crap... that it's just lost in a sea of confusion.

I do think though, it's rather convenient that they dumped his body at sea.

[Almohada]

Everyone wants to know... everyone wants to see it. The truth will be revealed sooner or later. It will spread like wildfire

Hey did you guys know that Dwayne "THE ROCK" Johnson 'tweeted' about Osama before anyone had known? He said something about just receiving news that will shock the world or something like that.

[Daniel Rutter]

I bet this was written by an American (http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2011/05/02/news/ubl-dies-a-cowards-death/).

Seriously... where did this guy get his info on the whole "hiding behind a woman" thing?
The internet is literally spewing this lalalala. If you're reading this and believing any of it... I'm not surprised.

[cgbier]

http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html

[Janke]

Hey, don't you know that Walt Disney is cryogenically preserved, and will be revived in the future...

http://www.snopes.com/disney/waltdisn/frozen.asp

Why else do I carry those ears... I want him to recognize me! ;)

[Bob Sanders]

God forbid any country that doesn't toe the American line. Who knows, Australia might tell your government to suck a nut... and we'll get nuked on grounds of "WMD's" or "Harboring terrorists".

As far as "terrorists" go... America needs to sort out it's problems inside it's own country first before wandering out into the world and "trying to fix other people's problems".

Well... the USA can be a little outrageous and overbearing sometimes as Canada can knows full well by sharing one of the longest unguarded boarder with them but I don't think they're that outrageous. Of course I should bite my tongue because we're getting ready to get into a scuffle with the yanks over our Northern territories (As our great white North melts, more and more oil laden land becomes accessible.... There are some American Politicians beginning to "question" our Canadian borders in the North claiming the maps are wrong and a lot of that land is up for grabs:hv20-smilie108:

I will agree with you though... the USA has enough of its own problems to concentrate on. It has been noted on record that when Americans travel in that part of the world these days, they Don the Canadian flag and hide the American one. They need to have a much more careful look at why they're hated so much in the first place because it has nothing to do with 'hate for freedom and democracy'. We (Canada) are free and democratic and don't wear the kind of hate the Americans do. It seems to me that winning the war on terror has more to do with this than anything else.... try to get an American to see this though.

[HueyNRolf]

Bin Laden isn't qualified to be dead until Donald Trump sees the death certificate.

[Shaunp007]

Please don't try and tell me that intel up to 4 years old was actually any good today. And BTW please tell me where you're getting this info from because something tells me you're making it up.

This was reported in the LA times.
"Crucial information about the trusted courier who owned the compound came years ago from CIA interrogations of 9-11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohamed, the official said...."We were able to get pieces of information from detainees," the official said. "That took years and these guys don’t give it up all willingly."
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-osama-bin-laden-cia-20110502,0,6466214.story

Apparently, sometime between 2002 and 2007, KSM and/or al-Libi revealed the courier’s pseudonym to the CIA while at a secret prison; then, four years ago, the CIA finally figured out the courier’s real name, which was the first big break in tracking him to Bin Laden’s door. The NYT, however, says that the CIA got the courier’s pseudonym from detainees at Gitmo. Perhaps they corroborated the info gleaned from KSM and al-Libi at the black sites, or vice versa? Bear in mind too that al-Libi wasn’t one of the three high-value detainees who were waterboarded. He coughed up the courier’s name after some sort of lesser enhanced interrogation, and not until we have a precise timeline on KSM will we know exactly when in the process he gave them the name.

There appears to be a disagreement between the NY time and the LA times about where the couriers name was aquired but it was agreed that it has taken a long time to piece this puzzle together.

[LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS]

did they use a DOF adaptor to shoot Bin Laden?



(sorry, couldn't help it, been away from the forum for quite a long time, missed ya guys! =D )

[LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS]

seriously though, I agree in part with what Biff said at the beginning of the thread. He might have been "just one man", but history has shown us what "one man" can do to a whole bunch of people... and even in Sicilian Mafia, you don't go after the button men to make your power move, you go and killl at least a caporegime or if you're bold enough, go after their Don...

(sorry, been reading Mario Puzo's novel too , great book! )

[Almohada]

You guys think he didn't tell his men what to do next? He knew they were going to get him soon
I just heard on the news that he was unarmed.

[Janke]

BBC: "500 euros ($745; £450) were also found stitched into Bin Laden's clothing, there in case he needed to make a quick getaway."

Obviously, he didn't trust the US Dollar... ;)

[cgbier]

Well, there are rumors that the Iraq was liberated because Saddam wanted to talk the OPEC into writing their invoices in €....

[Janke]

OPEC into writing their invoices in €

Oooh, that would have become expensive for us youroopeans...

[cgbier]

It would have strengthened the value of the €, so gas would have gotten cheaper in .eu (contrary to the US). However, knowing the European, especially the German, governments, they'd have just added some taxes on the oil to balance out the savings.

[Andoru]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68_3rjp0Rkw

Can anyone tell me how to find this deep rumble in the background, or what it's called so I can search for it on a free noise site or something.

And a lot of people think Osama has been dead for years, which makes sense. If I find whatever I was reading last year, I'll show it to you. You could probably find a million things about it on google, however.

[cgbier]

Fox News had reported his death on Dec. 26, 2001. An Egyptian newspaper brought the message about two weeks earlier. It is said he died in Oct 2001 from either pneumonia or kidney failure (he was dialysis patient).

[Janke]

some taxes on the oil to balance out the savings

Currently, gas prices here in Finland are around 1,70 euros per liter for 5% ethanol-adulterated gas... that's more than $ 9.00 per US gallon...

[cgbier]

Why do you think I left Europe? ;)

[Shaunp007]

Obviously, he didn't trust the US Dollar...

Lol...we in the states don't either. Our FED is currently printing money to buy our own Treasury bills which is buying our own debt, they call it "Monetizing the Debt". They are doing this because our latest T-Bill sales have not been going so well. They are doubling down on a monetary policy that sucked already.

[Daniel Rutter]

The only good thing I see about the whole... value of the U.S Dollar is, that I can buy stuff from the U.S for a damn sight less than it was going to cost before. $400 GH1? Alrighty, I'll pay $380AU for that. Thanks!

But seriously, what has the value of the dollar got to do with the fact that some Arab fellow got noggined?

[cornreaper]

I can buy stuff from the U.S for a damn sight less than it was going to cost before

Hells yeah! Of course, the Canadian dollar being worth more than the USD hurts us in the long run....but for now, CHA-CHING!

[Almohada]

Fox News had reported his death on Dec. 26, 2001. An Egyptian newspaper brought the message about two weeks earlier. It is said he died in Oct 2001 from either pneumonia or kidney failure (he was dialysis patient).

Here is the article:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

By the way, that article was online until the news broke about Osama, then they took it down. I couldn't access it for about an hour or two then it went back up. Hmmm...

[cgbier]

But seriously, what has the value of the dollar got to do with the fact that some Arab fellow got noggined?
A lot.
In Saddam's case: Part of the dollar's value is based on the fact that the whole world needs it to pay their oil bills. Had the OPEC changed to the Euro, the dollar wouldn't be worth the paper it is printed on.
OBL: The USA has spent a couple of trillions she doesn't have to "get that guy". Somehow they have to pay that money back. The easiest way is to paint a zero behind the 1 on a dollar bill and sell it as a ten.

[LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS]

there's a whole world of pain behind the federal reserve and its self-generating debt as the money is being printed out... neverending story