Chinaballs

[muroshi]

http://www.paperlanternstore.com/

Check the nylon ones.

What else do I need? I guess the tricky thing is constructing a harp.

[Erik Bien]

Hi muroshi,

I don't know how much heat the nylon ones can take (though I can't imagine they'd be much worse than the paper variety).

The lanterns I've bought have all come with a "harp" which holds the ball open, and usually has a way to thread a cord through the top such that it won't slide.

The trick is to buy a "lamp kit" meant for turning, say, a ginger jar into a table lamp. This should have a hollow, threaded tube with washers and nuts to fit it, a cord and a socket. If you can't find one with a porcelain socket (http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-58111/Detail), buy one to fit.

Screw one nut, two washers and the second nut on the threaded rod FIRST, then run the cord through, screw the socket on and wire it. (Be sure to tie an underwriter's knot (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=HomeDecor/MakeALamp#1) for strain relief.)

Now you can adjust the washers and nuts to grip the "cord hook" of the lantern's harp (you will probably need to bend it with some pliers) such that the bulb ends up in the middle of the lantern.

The best thing about doing it this way is your china ball can be used in any position, like a "light wand" (if you just dangle a socket on a limp cord, unless it hangs straight down the bulb will contact the paper or fabric and ... instant disaster!).

[Terfyn]

This is a new world with a language all of its own!!!
And I thought the Forum was about HD cameras of a Japanese manufacture. Silly me.

[Erik Bien]

I could counter that high-quality, low-cost camcorders are a natural fit with high-quality, low-cost lighting solutions ... :hv20-smilie110:

[muroshi]

Wow, this technical english is rather complicated, but I hope I will figure it out from the image. I don't think they are shipped with harps though.

I will use fluros and heard in another forum that 200-250W are ok with 18" and up to 500" with 24" chinaballs.

[Erik Bien]

Maybe some pictures (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/China-ball-Chinese-Lantern-rigid-yoke_W0QQitemZ7618665099QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3319QQc mdZViewItem) will make it clear what I'm trying to describe.

[RicanJoe]

Maybe some pictures (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/China-ball-Chinese-Lantern-rigid-yoke_W0QQitemZ7618665099QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3319QQc mdZViewItem) will make it clear what I'm trying to describe.
Nice, a picture says 1000 words :)

[muroshi]

What are the costs of doing this DIY versus buying the pole with harp? I guess not that much of an advantage or am I wrong? The only problem I see is we have 220V here. Although they write something from international.

The other question is, can I use those photobulbs from filmtools which are 120V with 220V current? I guess not.

[wolferic]

What are the costs of doing this DIY versus buying the pole with harp? I guess not that much of an advantage or am I wrong? The only problem I see is we have 220V here. Although they write something from international.

The other question is, can I use those photobulbs from filmtools which are 120V with 220V current? I guess not.

Depending on your DIY skills, you could save A LOT by constructing something yourself. I've bought lots of these from IKEA (less than 10 euros here in the most expensive nation in europe – and they come with a socket and yoke/harp). I've seen them even cheaper in other places. The poles that Erik B suggests should be available at most lighting supply shops. The only thing I've had a hard time finding is sockets that are rated for more than 100 watts, but I'm sure in a more civilized country you could find some cheap old lamps at most second hand markets that have much better sockets (and cables) for just a few euros.

I really like the idea of a straight rod that allows the mounting of a chinaball directly in front of the camera – thanks for the link Erik, I will be trying this next week!


This is a new world with a language all of its own!!!
And I thought the Forum was about HD cameras of a Japanese manufacture. Silly me.
True enough. This thread probably really belongs in the 'lighting' section, but useful information is valuable wherever we find it :hv20-smilie77:

[wolferic]

Here is a link to the Swiss IKEA site: paper chinaballs from 30cm to 60cm

http://www.ikea.com/ch/de/catalog/products/90103409

Has anybody used plastic chinaballs? Any experiences regarding heat and weight?

[Erik Bien]

Hi, wolf (other) Eric!

I haven't tried to use plastic globes for china balls, although I often use them to build props. The biggest problem is they don't come with any sort of "harp" or other way to rig them around a bulb; at least the ones I find at the home improvement stores in the US never have anything more than a "lip" meant to be gripped by set screws in a "proper" fixture.

They're made out of HDPE or a similarly "oily" type of plastic, so glues won't work: you'd need to drill holes to secure anything to them. Plus they're heavy, and who knows how heat resistant they are (the fixtures they're meant to fit normally say "60 watts max" or something similar).

Muroshi, I have no way of knowing, but I suspect "photo flood" globes should be available in 220V versions; a good photography store in your part of the world should be able to find them. They run hot and don't live very long (50 or 60 hours if you're really lucky), but they're about the cheapest way to get 500 watts of 5600K daylight. You can also use your china balls with compact flourescents (they run cool enough you may be able to fit two in a Y-adapter in a large lantern) or powerful tungsten-halogen medium-base bulbs for "indoor" white-balance situations.

And one other thing worth mentioning: the lanterns are cheap, so buy a bunch (http://asianideas.com/globelanterns.html). Their biggest drawback is a lack of control: they throw soft, diffuse light everywhere! Staple a bit of baking parchment or diffusion gel across the opening at the bottom, and get some flat black paint. Paint the top third of one globe, paint the back half of another (some people waste way too much time wrapping black foil or duvetyne around these things trying to get them to throw a nice pattern; paint is much faster and easier).

[muroshi]

they come with a socket and yoke/harp

Wolferic: Are this porcelain sockets?

Thanks for your suggestions Erik. I will see if I manage to construct something.

[muroshi]

What are the best lamps for thungsten? Is it possible to use fluros? I have seen thungsten fluros for lightbanks, but not small bulbs.

[Erik Bien]

Hi muroshi,

Here is one source (http://alzodigital.com/online_store/replacement_lamps.htm#ALZO%20cool%20lites) for compact flo's in 5600K (110V of course).

[muroshi]

I wonder if I could get flo's in 3200k anywhere?

[lordtangent]

3200k 200w 90CRI compact FLO:

http://www.coollights.biz/cl20032-cool-lights-200w-3200k-high-softbox-bulb-p-85.html

[Erik Bien]

3200k 200w 90CRI compact FLO:

http://www.coollights.biz/cl20032-cool-lights-200w-3200k-high-softbox-bulb-p-85.html

That's a mogul base; it looks similar to a standard medium-base bulb, but it's too large to fit a normal socket! Here's one (http://www.electrical-supply.net/product.asp_Q_promoid_E_6_A_parentID_E_582_A_subCa tID_E_601_A_prodID_E_2992) that should fit.

[muroshi]

But only 65W.

Which bulb brands do folks from Europe use? Speaking of fluro-bulbs.

[Erik Bien]

Here's the china ball on-a-stick in action ... (I'm the one in the middle impersonating a dolly grip).

[Erik Bien]

Not the greatest picture, but you can see another china ball on-a-stick up the aisle over my right shoulder, waiting to be deployed ...

[bimpatiens]

Maybe some pictures (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/China-ball-Chinese-Lantern-rigid-yoke_W0QQitemZ7618665099QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3319QQc mdZViewItem) will make it clear what I'm trying to describe.
Is this a broken Link? Looks an eBay item gone south?

[Erik Bien]

Yes; it was an Australian guy making and selling an item similar to the DIY version ... unfortunately I didn't add him to my "favorite sellers" and haven't been able to find a similar commercial version ...

[Erik Bien]

This isn't quite the same thing, but the same general idea (http://www.lanternlock.com/Pricelistcc.html).

[Charles Lowthian]

It might have been mentioned, but if getting paper lanterns for overhead lighting, make sure there isn't a hole at the bottom. Otherwise the un-diffused bulb will hit the talent, defeating the purpose of soft lighting.
I just made my own sockets from hardware store. Bit of cord, bayonet mount (or whatever your flavour), screw in bulb (200w), thread through top of lantern (wire frame has hook for cord at top), then hang over pvc stands, or if you got the $ - actual C stands.
:)

[bimpatiens]

This isn't quite the same thing, but the same general idea (http://www.lanternlock.com/Pricelistcc.html).
Thanks!

[Erik Bien]

One bummer about the old-school china ball has been the difficulty of getting anything but tungsten color temperature in them: photoflood (http://www.1000bulbs.com/stage/Photoflood_Lamps/30781/) bulbs aren't too expensive, but have a laughably short life expectancy (three hours!) and typically change their color output over the course of their brief lives. At the other end of the cost spectrum, a Joker Bug (http://www.lightsonretail.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=K0400JB&Category_Code=K5600) can be stripped down to a bare bulb for lantern use.

However, now that high output compact fluorescents are becoming cheap and ubiquitous, many are great candidates to stick inside a lantern for daylight-balanced shooting. Filmtools suggests an 85W for $32.29 (http://www.filmtools.com/eiko-85-watt-fluorescent-lamp.html), but I just ordered the same bulbs from Planet Bulb for $19.99 (http://www.planetbulbstore.com/sp85-med.html). These Eiko bulbs may need a sleeve of minus green gel (http://www.filmtools.com/31-lee-s247.html) to help their color rendition, but for around the same price the Full Spectrum ParaLite (http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/45w_power_compact_67_prd1.htm) 45W CFL is an option with higher CRI (if less output).

[David]

I just ordered the same bulbs from Planet Bulb for $19.99 (http://www.planetbulbstore.com/sp85-med.html). These Eiko bulbs may need a sleeve of minus green gel (http://www.filmtools.com/31-lee-s247.html) to help their color rendition, but for around the same price the Full Spectrum ParaLite (http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/45w_power_compact_67_prd1.htm) 45W CFL is an option with higher CRI (if less output).

You say that it needs minus green, do you know what the CRI is of the Planetbulbstore bulb? I didn't see it on the page.

Thanks

[Erik Bien]

for the SP85, Eiko's website (http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:fjtFgjtsO9gJ:www.eiko-ltd.com/Products.aspx%3FCatID%3D234%26ProductIndex%3DSP85/50/MED+eiko+SP85&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us) lists a CRI of 82.

[David]

Thanks Erik