CineForm products [Archive] - High Definition Digital Video Forum

David Newman

2007 November 25th, 17:33

ADMIN EDIT (25 Jan 2009):
THIS IS NOW OUTDATED, AND THERE
IS NO HV20.COM DISCOUNT GIVEN
BY CINEFORM.

In recent weeks we have been receiving more and more traffic from the HV20.com forum to the CineForm.com domain. We thank you for the attention. Unfortunately a lot of posts are themed on how not to use CineForm, while these posts acknowledge the convenience/quality our products offer, the hobbiest user is concerned by the expense of a product designed for professional customer base. Popular features like real-time capture, compression with automatic pulldown removal to 24p, were orginally developed for Canon XL-H1 over AJA Xena HDSDI cards, not for Canon HV20s via Black Magic Intensity cards.

To help with the hobbiest or part-time professional usage of CineForm tools, we are offering a promotion discount code on NEO HDV, NEO HD and Aspect HD (and now Prospect HD.) You can get upto $200 off using code "HV20Forum", a 20% discount from these products:

This will get you:
NEO HD for $479 (down from $599) - code HV20Forum
NEO HDV for $199 (down from $249) - code HV20Forum
Aspect HD for $399 (down from $499) - code HV20Forum
Prospect HD for $799 (down from $999) - code HV20Forum

P.S. Enter the Promomtion Code on Shipping Instructions page when ordering the product.

See http://www.cineform.com for product details.

tcindie

2007 November 25th, 17:52

That's very generous.. Thank you David. :)

harshvfx

2007 November 25th, 22:47

Im a noob, but does this mean that it wont do the auto pull down? Thanks

Eugenia Loli-Queru

2007 November 26th, 04:20

This rocks, thanks David. This was much needed, as the people who bought the HV20 are non-pros mostly, and they are in need of your tools.

tcindie

2007 November 26th, 04:31

Im a noob, but does this mean that it wont do the auto pull down? Thanks

I'm sure David will correct me if I'm wrong, but all three of the discounted Cineform products should be able to automatically remove pulldown from HV20 footage.

In fact I'm pretty sure he will confirm this.. In a comment on a blog entry discussing Working with 24p from Canon HV20 (http://www.hdforindies.com/2007/07/working-with-24p-from-canon-hv20.html), David said:

"All the CineForm PC products support real-time pulldown extract from any 24p camera (HV20 and V1U fully tested), whether from Firewire, disk/flash based media, or live from HDMI or HDSDI sources."

Eugenia Loli-Queru

2007 November 26th, 04:49

"Automatically", after you select the right settings that is.

tcindie

2007 November 26th, 04:57

well yes. that's why I said automatically.. not automagically. :)

africanmarty

2007 November 26th, 05:35

well yes. that's why I said automatically.. not automagically. :)

this made me luagh ;)

SalaTar

2007 November 26th, 07:04

Must be the Giving Season :D

David Newman

2007 November 26th, 10:32

Sorry for my confusing post, yes all our packages include the live, pre-recorded pulldown removal.

lordtangent

2007 November 26th, 15:14

Thanks for the great offer David!

Would somebody make this sticky please?

Rikki

2007 November 26th, 18:11

Its not often you get companies listening and responding to users and potential users. Pat on the back for that man! :)

David Newman

2007 November 26th, 18:59

It is the best way to advertise when you don't have the budget for anything in print (which is questionable use of money.) Everyone at CineForm tries to spend some time in forums, as it also lightens the load on support.

twoneil

2007 November 26th, 19:07

Ok, I found the comparison on the cineform website.

I'm choosing between the Neo HD and Aspect HD.

Which one should I choose??
Which one is the best for my system?

I use a laptop Core Duo 1.66ghz 1GB ram, and video captured through Firewire.
I have the premiere pro 1.5

The discount is very enticing I must admit.

Unless that is a recent laptop, it might a little under powered. If it is a core 2 duo, than you are likely OK.

NEO is a capture and conversion utility with encoding licenses for use in tools like Sony Vegas and After Effect etc. NEO HDV and NEO HD just vary in resolution (1440x1080 HDV vs 1920x1080 HD) and bit-depth (8 vs 10-bit.) More NEO info here: http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm

Aspect HD is everything in NEO plus direct integration to Premiere Pro. This enables batch capture directly into a Premiere project and real-time editing performance through the CineForm video pipeline. Real-time support include a range or transitions, color correction, motion, pip overlays, opacity and titling. More Aspect HD info here: http://www.cineform.com/products/Aspect-Prospect.htm

If you are using Premiere Pro, you will want Aspect HD (it is our most popular tool.)

All our software is available for a 15-day fully-featured trial.

GREAT! Thanks David for the quick response.
I will download the trial and see if it works on my very humble system.
I've been waiting to get the cineform for quite sometime.

David Newman

2007 November 26th, 19:20

What is the difference between them three? (Neo HD HDV....vs Aspect)
I'm looking at the cineform home page but I can't seem to find it. (I'll find it eventually)
I guess I would like to have a quick answer.

Which one is the best for the budget?

The discount is enticing.

I use a laptop 1.66ghz 1GB ram, and video captured through Firewire.

Unless that is a recent laptop, it might a little under powered. If it is a core 2 duo, than you are likely OK.

NEO is a capture and conversion utility with encoding licenses for use in tools like Sony Vegas and After Effect etc. NEO HDV and NEO HD just vary in resolution (1440x1080 HDV vs 1920x1080 HD) and bit-depth (8 vs 10-bit.) More NEO info here: http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm

Aspect HD is everything in NEO plus direct integration to Premiere Pro. This enables batch capture directly into a Premiere project and real-time editing performance through the CineForm video pipeline. Real-time support include a range or transitions, color correction, motion, pip overlays, opacity and titling. More Aspect HD info here: http://www.cineform.com/products/Aspect-Prospect.htm

If you are using Premiere Pro, you will want Aspect HD (it is our most popular tool.)

All our software is available for a 15-day fully-featured trial.

zcream

2007 November 27th, 07:21

Can Aspect HD be used with Premiere Elements ? Elements allows Premiere Pro plugins so..
Just wondering..

David Newman

2007 November 27th, 10:45

Can Aspect HD be used with Premiere Elements ? Elements allows Premiere Pro plugins so..
Just wondering..

I never seen or tried Elements, which gives you an idea of the market we normally service -- this has not come up before. You could experiment.

tcindie

2007 November 27th, 10:49

twoneil

2007 November 27th, 11:55

Ouch.. working with video on that must be brutal.. the speed isn't terrible though it could be better... but the 1gb of ram is certainly a bottleneck.

Do you think the speed will improve greatly if I add another 1gb?
(obviously yes; but how many times?)

I guess 2x 512mb are installed in my laptop.

David Newman

2007 November 27th, 12:07

Do you think the speed will improve greatly if I add another 1gb?
(obviously yes; but how many times?)

I guess 2x 512mb are installed in my laptop.

1GB is OK for CineForm tools, if you are not running Vista. 2GB help around 20% on getting reliable performance.

CBarce

2007 November 27th, 13:21

Nice offer David. To all of those who don't know it, Cineform has been around several years providing intermediate codecs and editing enhancements for professional editing systems. I have regularly recommended NeoHDV for people's 24p needs on this forum, and this offer sweetens the recommendation. I use NeoHDV for pull down for editing in Vegas, and regularly convert HV20 captures to 24p avi files without a problem.

brido

2007 December 1st, 20:28

I really have to plead poor (BUT not knocking the very generous offer of yours David) I have found moving to HDV "very" expensive with camera and upgraded software. (And I am an aged pensioner... I love my hobby!))

I do have PP2 and premiere CS3.

My question is will I be able to use the cheapest -Neo HDV- with Premiere Products. I accept that they will not be integrated.

I also am one of those who is having humongous difficulties with audio synch in CS3; do you think this will solve or help solve these difficulties.

PS would you consider buying out Premiere!!! :) You do a better job then they do!

RobPhoboS

2007 December 4th, 06:39

I think this offer is fantastic but to the Premiere Pro users, Aspect isn't much use to us as we cant capture at full resolution.
Now to be honest, I dont mind not capturing with Premiere so I presume I can use one of your other programs to capture full resolution from the HV20 ?

David Newman

2007 December 4th, 10:32

RobPhoboS

2007 December 4th, 17:36

Hi David.
So if I purchased Neo HD, I can capture the footage using your HDLink app (nice) BUT if I want to edit the footage in premiere pro I presume it wouldn't work ?
So I would end up needing Prospect HD anyway ?

Also, when we are using programs like Fusion and After Effects can they support the codec ?
Cheers!

p.s
I pray that you make the CineForm HDMI DDR, this would be soo useful... however I'm concerned about the possible price (not that I can see one).

David Newman

2007 December 4th, 17:54

Hi David.
So if I purchased Neo HD, I can capture the footage using your HDLink app (nice) BUT if I want to edit the footage in premiere pro I presume it wouldn't work ?
So I would end up needing Prospect HD anyway ?

And why not Aspect HD, with the discounts NEO HD and Aspect HD are the same price? That would enable real-time editing in Premiere Pro. Prospect HD is for those wanting a 10-bit workflow. NEO HD will work with the desktop mode of Premeire, just without real-time. Try out Aspect HD.

Also, when we are using programs like Fusion and After Effects can they support the codec ?

Yes both support the codec. We do all of testing in AE, and we have customers using Fusion. We also work in Combustion and we are looking into Nuke.

I pray that you make the CineForm HDMI DDR, this would be soo useful... however I'm concerned about the possible price (not that I can see one).

Our target is sub-$2000.

twoneil

2007 December 4th, 18:19

Can someone please convince me why I should buy the Aspect HD??? and not use the free software? Is it worth the buck?
I'm also thinking why not NEO HD???

David Newman

2007 December 4th, 18:27

Convince yourself and try the CineForm tools. If you use Premiere Pro/AE, try Aspect HD. If you use Vegas try NEO HDV.

jlaurie

2007 December 4th, 18:46

Hi,

I'm a home hobbyist with an hg10 and prempro cs3 q6600 2gig ram.
So if I spend $100 less (199 vs 299 for aspecthd) for neo hdv, can I capture my hd files to an intermediate form and then open premiere pro and import as asset and except for 'native batch capture' it's the same?

As a new hd cam owner, generally once I get to intermediate file should my editing experience (speed efficiency) be similar to when I edit dv files?

thanks,
Jack

RobPhoboS

2007 December 5th, 06:49

Cheers David for the info, I still think for me Prospect is probably the more ideal choice because I can capture at 10bit (since I do a lot of post production).

digvid

2007 December 5th, 10:53

David Newman

2007 December 5th, 10:55

Jack,

We don't recommend NEO HDV for Premiere Pro, but you might find it okay. Try the software first. If you tryinh both NEO HDV and Aspect HD, only have one installed at one time.

David Newman

2007 December 5th, 10:57

Cheers David for the info, I still think for me Prospect is probably the more ideal choice because I can capture at 10bit (since I do a lot of post production).

For an 8-bit source (like HV20) Aspect HD and Prospect HD, both will capture the same way over Firewire. Prospect HD's advantage kicks in for post manipulation.

jlaurie

2007 December 5th, 12:44

I installed aspecthd and it wouldn't see the connected device (although the device is connected and I can see the files in explorer). I then installed the dv editing software that came with the hg10 and used it to download the files from the cam to the pc (of course could have just dragged themf rom explorer too) Anyway still not showing connected. When I choose 'convert' and add the files and start , it immediately crashes. I went into prempro too and selected a new proj with cineform 720p and on capture picked the appropriate settings re cineform but it shows device offline. If I try to import the mts into project bin, it crashes too. Opening vegas8, it doesn't see the device either.
I have ppcs3, trial vegas8, nero8 and the ulead stuff that came with the came including windvdse and canon zoombrowser installed. AV is mcafee. xp2 updated. I'm capturing and editing dv from firewire fine on my minidv.

Help. I can't wait to try this. (So it sounds like the aspecthd over neohdv will give me significant speed and efficiency in premiere pro, justifing the $100, ie, it's not just added batch capturing)
thanks

David Newman

2007 December 5th, 13:20

The HG10 is not supported as a direct capture device, you need to transfer your AVCHD media to a local hard drive first. If you don't have an AVC decoder installed you will also have issues. The CoreAVC decoder at $15 is cheap and works well. Once you have a working decoder, you can verifiy this by playing your m2ts/mts clips in MediaPlayer, you can then batch convert these to AVIs within CineForm's HDLink tool. These AVIs drop onto a CineForm timeline within Premiere and get you plenty of real-time performance.

For those with the HV20, as an HDV capture you can capture directly in Premiere via firewire using Aspect HD.

jlaurie

2007 December 5th, 14:06

thanks I'll try this. I can get the Coreavc decoder, but I was under the impression that part is handled by either installing the free elcard player, or nero, or powerdvd? Is there a difference avchd decoding codecs reg: stablility and reliability and quality? or are they all the same just packaged with different programs?

Also, when I mix cineform int 720p files and sd files (shot at 16:9 effect) , do I first convert them to interm files before adding them to the timeline in premiere?

David Newman

2007 December 5th, 14:08

You don't need the CoreAVC if you have a working decoder. Do your .mts/.m2ts files play in Window Media Player, or better Media Player Classic? If so then the HDLink conversions will work fine.

It is best to convert all media.

jlaurie

2007 December 5th, 16:53

okay, so after installing coreavc I can play the m2ts files in mediaplayer and hdlink didn't crash and converted....yea! In premiere it imports and seems to edit fine. When I set the pref to Don't resize in hdlink it gave an error: m_graph->connectDirect(outputpin, inputpin,0) (ox80040207-The owner SID on a per-user subscription doesn't exist in (DirectShowGraph.cpp at 350)

after setting to 720p it would work. Just curious...why?

Also, Do I just import the hdlink avi's as assets in premiere. There's no built in conversion from premiere? I just pick the project the same size as what I'm going to convert to and since it's one of the cineform presets it will 'activate' the engine that makes it fast and efficient?

David Newman

2007 December 5th, 17:59

The line before in the Log window will give me the information I need. Try setting the scale to 1440x1080, just in case the decoder is scaling to 1920x1080 and you only have a 1440 license. Also try Start Menu->CineForm->Tools->Register components. This can fix installation issues.

jlaurie

2007 December 6th, 13:08

What's the difference between the .mts files on the cam and the .m2ts files after importing with uleads product vs staying .mts when just dragging them.
Also, is there anyway to copy the whole 6gb file without it splitting to 1.9gb segments? when I line them together on the timeline some of the joints 'bump' when played across the joint.

David Newman

2007 December 6th, 13:13

We don't split the files up. Is that something your camera is doing, or the ulead software?

David Newman

2007 December 6th, 13:33

.MTS is likely strided, 192 byte packets of 188 bytes of data. This is then stripped to the raw 188 byte data. Otherwise it is the same.

jlaurie

2007 December 6th, 14:11

We don't split the files up. Is that something your camera is doing, or the ulead software?

wierd, because in explorer the j:\canon camcorder shows the files as what ever they are (ie 6-8 gb each) even when I just copy and paste them it turns into 1.9gb files(just like dvd vob files, i guess). It is a NTFS drive. I thought the 1.9 gb limit could be broken. (i realize this is before your software touches it)

David Newman

2007 December 7th, 12:14

wierd, because in explorer the j:\canon camcorder shows the files as what ever they are (ie 6-8 gb each) even when I just copy and paste them it turns into 1.9gb files(just like dvd vob files, i guess). It is a NTFS drive. I thought the 1.9 gb limit could be broken. (i realize this is before your software touches it)

Thanks for that information, that is very odd. Yes NTFS should allow for a single file. However the source media is likely FAT32 based, so the viewer is showing the concatenated size, not how the files are stored. I'm guessing the 1.9GB clips exist on the camera.

jlaurie

2007 December 11th, 11:48

Thank you for the feedback. I've got to figure why the camera is doing this. It wouldn't be so bad if I could play the part 1 -->2 seemlessly on a timeline. Plays back from the cam and tv seemlessly and only shows 1 file? arggg.

Well not related to your software though. 2 questions for you though.

1) re: your opinion.....any significant difference in quality between the different avchd compressing cams....canon hg10 vs. sony sr7vs. jvc enverio hg jz hd7

2) Is it normal to look a little interlaced with movement when playing the dl'd mts file in media player? Same with but less so when cineform int avi is played.

3) when converting the to 1440x1080 int form the resulting avi is slightly out of audio sync when played in media player. Not so if I choose 720p conversion. When premiere pro automatically 'conforms audio' after import, then the audio is ok.

4) Is the Haali file splitter , I see in my taskbar related to the mysterious 1.9gb splitting? Is that part of your software?

5) Would the dl'd hdmi files via blackmagic intensity, and then converted with cineform be that much better quality? Isn't the compression ''damage' already done when recorded to the cams hd?

Thank you for your patience and willingness to help non prof, hobbiest. makes me feel alot better about spending the 299.

David Newman

2007 December 11th, 12:04

1) re: your opinion.....any significant difference in quality between the different avchd compressing cams....canon hg10 vs. sony sr7vs. jvc enverio hg jz hd7

JVC HD7 is MPEG2 (HDV) compressed to 25Mb/s, the others are AVCHD compressed to 15Mb/s or lower. The smaller the number to worse the image. Although a good 15Mb/s AVCHD is similar to 25Mb/s MPEG2.

2) Is it normal to look a little interlaced with movement when playing the dl'd mts file in media player? Same with but less so when cineform int avi is played.

Normal, yes likely.

3) when converting the to 1440x1080 int form the resulting avi is slightly out of audio sync when played in media player. Not so if I choose 720p conversion. When premiere pro automatically 'conforms audio' after import, then the audio is ok.

Some PCs will not play 1080 perfectly, in the CineForm->Aspect HD->Tools menu selected "Accelerated Desktop playback", then your 1080 will play fine.

4) Is the Haali file splitter , I see in my taskbar related to the mysterious 1.9gb splitting? Is that part of your software?

It is not ours. It came with you AVCHD decoder. I don't think is it related to 1.9Gb issue.

5) Would the dl'd hdmi files via blackmagic intensity, and then converted with cineform be that much better quality? Isn't the compression ''damage' already done when recorded to the cams hd?

Damage is already done.

Thank you for your patience and willingness to help non prof, hobbiest. makes me feel alot better about spending the 299.

Please recheck the offer for pricing.

jlaurie

2007 December 11th, 13:50

1) ah my error on the price. (hmm. i wonder if I'll really notice editing being slower usiing the neo hdv int files)
2) you think the hg10's avchd quality is good? "a good 15Mb/s AVCHD is similar to 25Mb/s MPEG2" (I'm still in a window where I can exchange the hg10 if I want.)

David Newman

2007 December 11th, 15:57

1) Yes, you will notice. It is significant enough that we don't consider NEO suitable for Premiere Pro. Please try for yourself.

2) Still prefer M2T data from HV20.

jlaurie

2007 December 12th, 12:48

I did find out, that the file 2gb limit is part of the camera. Wouldn't care if it could play seemlessly between 2 segs

There's some mention in the manual of not accessing the hd directly. What's the best way to get the files to the hd? Is it ok to use hdlink to access the cam drive that shows up in explorer or is it less likely to corrupt data by using the canon software to pull it over?

I realize the tape m2t is probably better but I really want a hd. just wondering how much the same better or worse the jvc everio cam is. otherwise will just stay with this one.

Matador

2007 December 14th, 13:17

Hi David, I tried the 15 trial and when I capture from HV20 and select to convert to .avi I get a video that is sort of broken up kind of like it captures two different frames. It doesn't do it with it converts to .mov or as .mt2!

At first I thought that maybe I had the remove pulldown option checked for a non 24p video but that wasn't the case.
What do you think this might be. I'm pretty new to all this so bear with me.

thanks.

David Newman

2007 December 14th, 13:47

Matador

2007 December 14th, 14:25

You might have a bad firewire card. Packet loss can do that. Firewire issue cause when the CPU is loaded (working hard) can occur for one of these reasons:

1) A bad Firewire implementation that has little or no buffering (guess: 5% of cards are like that.)

2) Under powered CPU. You just not have enough CPU to service the firewire port and encode at the same time. With modern PC that is not normally the issue any more.

3) You have writting to a port that is conflicting with the Firewire bus, i.e. available Firewire drive or something USB external drives as targets.

Thanks for the quick response.

I'm using the firewire that came with my Asus P5KE mobo. The cpu is an intel dula core E6750 4 GB RAM, and I don't have any other external devices except for usb mouse.
I could try a separate firewire card and see if that is the problem, unfortunately I can't as my trial version expired. I just don't want to spend $199 if I can't get that fixed. I should have asked this question 2 days ago.

Thanks again.

David Newman

2007 December 14th, 14:38

Try NEO HD for an additional 15day trail. If that works (with you new firewire card) you can still purchase NEO HDV.

Matador

2007 December 14th, 14:53

Try NEO HD for an additional 15day trail. If that works (with you new firewire card) you can still purchase NEO HDV.

Great idea. I'll try that.

Matador

2007 December 15th, 00:46

Great idea. I'll try that.

I tried NEO HD and still does the same thing. I can't figure out. I tried a different Firewire card.

Anybody have any ideas?

Rentakill

2007 December 15th, 02:25

Would have been even better if canon had done a deal to include Neo HDV with purchase of hv20.

brido

2007 December 15th, 07:54

I have just edited a two hour HDV project in CS3. My computer was a little slow for intensive activity, but i got the whole thing down to 55 minutes with minimal trouble. No audio sync problems like I was having before. CS3 did not bomb out on me either.
It uploaded very well with no trouble.
I think two hours of HDV on a timeline was a good test. Oh yes I also had an extra audio track from a digital recorder.

Very pleased with it.
Aspect HD
2 gb Ram
low end dual core athlon

threadhanger

2007 December 15th, 09:12

Well my 15 day trial period with Neo HDV is up. My opinion is that if you want to shoot 24p with the HV20 you should get this program.

It's easy to use, does the pulldown in real time, and previews on Sony Vegas without stuttering. Just remember to give a little bit of lead time in each clip for the program to find the cadence of the 24p and to always convert the footage over to "computer RGB" in Vegas (as Mr. Newman recommended).

My only problem is that my Gateway would go blank and reboot spontaneously after capturing footage after about 1 tape. This had nothing to do with Cineform per se, as it has done this before while working with the free pulldown method. This seems to be from some hardware problem. Eugenia informed me that I may have a bad stick of RAM. Apparently working with and transferring large clips overstresses my computer. Turning my computer off for about a minute or two and restarting seemed to clear things up. For now I'll probably stick with shooting and editing 30p until I get this issue cleared up.

David Newman

2007 December 15th, 11:33

I tried NEO HD and still does the same thing. I can't figure out. I tried a different Firewire card.

Anybody have any ideas?

Sorry to here you still have a Firewire issue, while you can see the follow up posts are not having this issue. It is rare that a firewire replacement doesn't solve the problem. You may be limited to two pass capture and conversion.

David Newman

2007 December 15th, 11:34

Would have been even better if canon had done a deal to include Neo HDV with purchase of hv20.

They are welcome to do that when every they like.

pedroquien

2007 December 16th, 02:26

I haven't received my HV20 yet but I'm trying to understand the differences between the software.

So what is the real difference between Aspect HD and Prospect HD with respect to an HV20?

Does using Aspect mean that I would only be able to deal with 1440x1080 instead of 1920x1080 resolution? Doesn't HV20 actually record 1920x1080?

Is that the only difference between the two products? Or is the additional cost also the SDI capturing?

How come the difference between Neo HD and Neo HDV is only $100 and $500 between Aspect HD and Prospect HD?

If we were to purchase the Aspect product now ... would we be able to upgrade to Prospect at some point? It's a very gracious offer that has been made but I was wondering if it's possible to get a discount on Prospect HD?
:-)

Thanks,
Peter

David Newman

2007 December 16th, 21:35

jlaurie

2007 December 18th, 18:10

Hi David,

I've been editing some hg10 files and sd dv files (upconverted to the 1440x1080) with hdlink , in premiere pro. In testing dvd s I do see a big difference in exporting in the cineform hd and then to author vs export to encore from premiere.
My questions are:
1) Are there any modifications you recommend to the instructions on cineforms site re: premiere timeline--> dvd via 'cineform hd' export.
2) Does the dvd authoring program and the transcoding it does (I'm using encore cs3) make a big difference the dvd quality? If so, what's the best one. Or would a standalone or plugin mpeg encoder like mainconcept be much better?

thanks
Jack

jlaurie

2007 December 18th, 18:12

jlaurie

2007 December 18th, 18:19

David Newman

2007 December 18th, 19:10

Jack,

Those instruction are too limited. That was mainly for the HDV days when there was no 24p, so it is optimized for interlaced.

I still prefer to make a CineForm AVI master at you target resolution (720x480 16x9 24p). I not sure if there are qualitry benefit over going direct to MPEG2, yet it is so much easier to review an exported AVI.

DaveS

2007 December 20th, 16:23

this deal is excellent, thank you David!! appreciate it!! this will get me to pull the trigger!

VMax

2007 December 27th, 20:10

NEO HD and Prospect HD add 1920x1080 and 10-bit I/O for color correction. As the HV20 is only 1440x1080 the resolution is not a big factor, although some prefer the convience of sqaure pixel 1920x1080, there is not more information in the frame (due to the HV20 1440x1080 nature.) The 10-bit is only really important is you intend extensive color grading, or multigeneration through compositing tools. So 10-bit is really valuable for indie-film work, less so for industrial, training or event work.

Not including discounts offered:
Prospect HD $999
NEO HD is $599
Apsect HD $499
NEO HDV $249

Prospect and Aspect add real-time acceleration of HD for Premiere Pro, that is why they a priced above the NEO tools.

Hi David,

I have just bought the HV20 and the CS3 Suite including AE and Premiere Pro. My intent is to shoot exclusively in 24p mode. While I can import as 60i and use AE to remove the pulldown, it seems to me it would be better to use one of your products to do this in one step. Also, with Premiere, it sounds like it would make most sense to go for either Aspect HD or Prospect HD. Since my main interest is in post work, Prospect HD sounds favorite for its 10-bit workflow. But this brings questions:

1) All the products you mention above have a discount mentioned earlier in this thread except Prospect HD. Is there anything on offer there?

2) For capture, there is no advantage in using Prospect HD over Aspect HD since the HV20 outputs 8-bit. So all of Prospect's advantages are in post - for the 10-bit color depth (and the ability to convert to square pixels). But I believe that at least AE can convert to 16-bit and in some cases 32-bit color depth while manipulating the image. What specifically then is the advantage Prospect HD offers the AE/Premiere user? (I'm sure there is one, but as a newbie, I'm still figuring all this stuff out so this is not some kind of criticism. Just a question.)

3) I have a single CPU notebook (a Dell M70 with 2G ram, and 2.3GHz Centrino) which I understand is a bit underpowered for this work so I wouldn't expect realtime performance. But would I be correct in assuming that it will be better than working directly in HDV in Premiere and AE?

Thanks for your time.

David Newman

2007 December 27th, 20:37

1) We don't have a discount code for Prospect HD, as those discounts where to encourage hobbiest into a more professional tools and workflows. If you go for Prospect HD, you aren't just a hobbiest. :) However, here is a trick for a discount on Prospect: currently we are very generous on upgrades. You can upgrade Prospect HD from Aspect HD for $500. And you can get a $100 discount on Aspect HD (if you are quick.) So if you order correctly, you can get PHD for $899. Don't tell anyone, as this is a loophole we will have to close if too many use it. :)

2) Anytime you render in Premiere, AspectHD goes thru 8-bit RGB/YUV, whereas Prospect HD uses 32-bit float. All the Premiere color correctors now support 32-bit float. This extra precision help against banding. Even in AE, if you use Aspect HD, your exports are limited to 8-bit thru the CineForm compression, in PHD we support 16 and 32-bit AE modes.

3) I get nice real-time on a Dell M90 2.3Ghz, while the old Pentium M is a bit slower, it should still work OK. You should always try it first. The issue with laptop for real-time is also disk speed, the 7200 rpm internal drives work better. Yes CineForm is faster and easier to edit then HDV, even more so with 24p in 60i sources.

VMax

2007 December 27th, 20:49

VMax

2007 December 27th, 21:50

Hi David,

I just downloaded Aspect HD trial and all appeared to get installed properly. I did a sample capture and all looked great as it captured. In fact it had a much easier time of it than Premiere did last night with the same short clip. It found the start much quicker and captured no problem. Then it started the conform process which continued fine until it got to 100%. Instantly at that point, Premiere gave the following message:

"Sorry, a serious error has occurred that requires Adobe Premiere Pro to shut down. We will attempt to save your current project."

When I hit the OK button, Premiere instantly disappears. It does appear to save a copy of the project but I couldn't find any footage in it. I tried this twice in the hope that the first time was just a glitch.

Do you have any idea of what I may be doing wrong/what might be wrong? BTW, since Cineform said it did not require a reboot on installation, I have not tried that. But the way everything works so well up to the point of failure, I suspect that is not the issue.

VMax

2007 December 27th, 22:07

...Then it started the conform process which continued fine until it got to 100%...

Of course I should have said the transcoding process, not the conform process. I have also checked that a reboot makes no difference.

VMax

2007 December 29th, 02:27

I also tried HDLink to convert the HDV directly from the camera to a Cineform AVI. This seemed to work fine. If I open up in Windows' own Media Player, the AVI plays just fine - even full screen. But if I try to import into Premiere Pro or AE, they both crash! Does anyone have any idea of what on earth is going on here? I've searched the web but have found nothing helpful so far. I really like the idea of Cineform's intermediate workflow. I'd really like to get it working so I can buy and use it all the time.

David Newman

2007 December 29th, 11:01

Please submit a trouble ticket at www.cineform.com/support. Unfortunately it is now the long weekend, so it will take a while for support to look into this. Crashing in any form is not typical behavior. We all be back at the office Jan 2nd.

VMax

2007 December 29th, 12:27

Thanks David. I have submitted a request for support.

MSPI

2008 January 2nd, 13:40

Hey all,

I have downloaded the trail of Neo HDV as David suggest this for Vegas users....a couple of quick questions / comments

- I captured and pulled down approx. 25-30 min. of footage over the weekend and while I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, the .m2t file was approx. 2 gig's and the .avi file was approx. 7 gigs......is this correct?

- For my non-24P footage I take it the creators of this software are saying there is a benefit to working with the .avi files rather then the .m2t files and there will be no noticable loss of quality...I guess I am curious, how is a file that is over 2x the size easier for Vegas to work with?????

Thanks!

David Newman

2008 January 2nd, 14:06

Uncompressed is 30X larger, and is much faster to decode then either, but it is much more of a pain on disk space and bandwidth. MPEG2 M2T is heavily compressed, and takes more work to decode than something that is lightly compressed. AVCHD is half the size of MPEG2, and is about four times more difficult to decompress.

So the AVIs are bigger than the source M2T files, yet they are easiler to manipulate in a much wider range of PC tools.

CineForm selected it codec design to produce files small enough for real-time editing on standard single hard drives yet have a quality equivalent to uncompressed.

Bill Strehl

2008 January 2nd, 15:07

NEO HD and Prospect HD add 1920x1080 and 10-bit I/O for color correction. As the HV20 is only 1440x1080 the resolution is not a big factor, although some prefer the convience of sqaure pixel 1920x1080, there is not more information in the frame (due to the HV20 1440x1080 nature.) The 10-bit is only really important is you intend extensive color grading, or multigeneration through compositing tools. So 10-bit is really valuable for indie-film work, less so for industrial, training or event work.

Not including discounts offered:
Prospect HD $999
NEO HD is $599
Apsect HD $499
NEO HDV $249

Prospect and Aspect add real-time acceleration of HD for Premiere Pro, that is why they a priced above the NEO tools.

Hi David:

I have just ordered an HV20 and am trying to determine what additional items I will need for Post work. I plan to use an Intel quad core computer with XP and Adobe CS3. I also plan to add a DOF adapter with 35 mm lenses. What I am not clear about is additional software and hardware that will allow me to use my base system as other hardware improves, my skills improve, I can afford more sofisticated cameras, or the projects I take on are more complex.

The thing I am considering adding from your company is one of your codecs such as the NEO HD or ASPECT HD. I am also considering the BlackMagic Intensity Card and the Matrox RT.X2. I get the impression that by using your codec that I might not get that much direct benefit from the RT card. In reading about people having compatability issues with products like the Firestore, I want to make sure I have products that are synergistic with one another.

To start off, I'll be doing outdoor travel/tourism videos and I can see the need to be able to use a green/blue screen. The end results will be played at conventions and also made available for viewing on the web. A second project will be a series of how to videos to be made available on DVD and possibly the web.

Thanks in advance for your sage advice.

Bill Strehl
billstrehl@comcast.net

David Newman

2008 January 2nd, 15:24

Bill,

CineForm works fine with FireStores and the Black Magic Intensity card for capture. CineForm and Matrox RT.X2 are completing solutions, and they don't aways work well together, but you shouldn't have both. For Adobe CS3 I would recommend Aspect HD or Prospect HD. All our products support the widest range of cameras, and I think we are the only solution to do real-time pulldown extraction and offer 180 degree flips for 35mm adaptors during capture. CineForm is a software only solution and Matrox is a hardware solution, hardware can help sometimes, but it is not as flexible.

David Newman

2008 January 5th, 12:52

New verisons of all CineForm software was released yesterday. These are recommended upgrades for all CineForm users. Please download your updates from http://www.cineform.com/products/Downloads/Downloads.htm

shenzo

2008 January 5th, 19:27

David Newman

2008 January 5th, 19:51

David, are the cineform compressed videos compatible with Final Cut Pro 2?
Also, would a macbook pro's processor be enough for cineform live encoding? I'm thinking about having this type of extension (http://www.magma.com/products/pciexpress/expressbox1/) to have the blackmagic on the laptop.

We have an Intel Mac version of our codec, and they are compatible.

We have tested the Magma product. A Macbook Pro is just fast enough if you run boot camp, as the Windows version of the encoder is faster than the Mac version. Also the pulldown utilities are Windows only.

shenzo

2008 January 5th, 19:59

Thanx, great news! Being able to do that is already great but would the mac version be up to speed any time soon?

David Newman

2008 January 5th, 21:02

Thanx, great news! Being able to do that is already great but would the mac version be up to speed any time soon?

Not soon, focusing on more decoder enhancements next.

VMax

2008 January 9th, 19:34

...Anytime you render in Premiere, AspectHD goes thru 8-bit RGB/YUV, whereas Prospect HD uses 32-bit float. All the Premiere color correctors now support 32-bit float. This extra precision help against banding. Even in AE, if you use Aspect HD, your exports are limited to 8-bit thru the CineForm compression, in PHD we support 16 and 32-bit AE modes...

Hi David,

BTW, I did submit a support request for the issue I discussed in posts 71-73. Jake got me all fixed up and going again. Thanks.

I have a couple of questions w.r.t. your comment above from post #69:

If I'm using Aspect HD in After Effects, and I want to export out to, say, Monet or some other standalone application, then re-import the results, will I be limited to 8-bit output or is there a way of exporting from AE in 16-bit TIFFs or would that require Prospect HD?

Is it just the exports that are limited to 8-bit? In other words, can I work internally in AE and Aspect HD in 16-bits or 32-bits?

I am looking to work in a higher bit depth internally to AE so that effects and/or color correction don't eat up my bit depth.

ixlor8

2008 January 10th, 10:44

I have downloaded the Neo HDV version 3.2.3.

1) The program crashes while having the HV20 connect to the firewire port while HDLINK is loading.

2) I load the HDlink and the program will load. Attach the HV20 and it crashes.

3) I can capture in Premiere Pro CS3 and Speed Edit 1.5.1.

I am looking for help. I must be doing something wrong. The video is is M2t format.

My goal with looking at this program is to take the HDV video to the best possible SD DVD results. I use Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 for editing and export to Encore to burn the DVD.

Are my camera HDV/DV setting wrong?

I am using a Vaio FE series notebook. 2 MB ram.

David Newman

2008 January 10th, 11:27

Tech support is www.cineform.com/support, file a trouble ticket. They should be able to help you.

Tomtebo

2008 January 10th, 14:22

why should i buy this? i don't know whats Pros and cons. please tell me?
kind of noob question but anyway :P

David Newman

2008 January 10th, 14:41

If reducing your time spent editing or the highest quality is of value to you, then you should consider becoming an CineForm customer. No one really questions the ease of our workflow or the quality of the results, but for those on a forum with a hobbiest focus, the main need is to weigh the price for a commerical tool versus the freeware solutions.

The pros and con are everywhere (including www.cineform.com), there has already been I lot of discussion on this and other sites.

ixlor8

2008 January 11th, 14:29

Follow up

Neo HDV version 3.2.3. crashed on my Windows Vista system. I do not know if all Vista computers have this problem. (A trial version of this program is available for 15 days.) This happen with using HDLink application. Newtek SpeedEdit crashed instantly will accessing these files.

Good News

It was recommended by tech support to install AspectHD. This product performed like it should with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 and with Windows Vista. I was able to capture to intermediate file, down sample to 720x480, and export to a great looking SD DVD. The quality is second to none that I have seen!

My 2 cents . . . . :hv20-smilie58:

MSPI

2008 January 18th, 16:05

Hey David,

Quick question for you about Neo-HDV....The "Frame Format" Interlaced/Progressive/Automatic.

I am using an HV20 mostly in full auto mode so that would give me 60i (Assumption on my part)

The odd thing is...the footage that I have captured from the HV20 using HDLink and "automatic"...well, the .M2T files play fine and look fine. But the coorsponding .AVI files that HDLink created are, well, unplayable in my media players (mplayer, VLC, WMP etc....just Audio, no video) and when I open up those .avi files in Vegas I can see the video but it is really, really jerky.

If, I run the .M2T files through HDLink with "Interlaced" selected the .AVI files play fine and look just like the .M2T files...

So the question is, what does "automatic" do?

David Newman

2008 January 18th, 16:31

It seems like you may have had other filter enabled. CineForm AVI normal play fine in nearly everything (except VLC on plays open-source codecs.) 1080 source in automatic mode are assumed to be interlaced, unless the de-interlace or pulldown filters are enabled, then the encoder uses progressive.

CJ2008

2008 January 18th, 18:49

Rob,

Remember full resolution and HV20, or not that related. Internally the camera processes 1440x1080 4:2:2, so that is the full resolution, yet it is upscaled in camera to go out HDMI. For Intensity uses capturing 1920x1080, you either want NEO HD or Prospct HD.

I thought the HV20 had a full 1920x1080 chip and the HDMI outputted the real resolution of 1920x1080 and to record to tape the signal was downscaled to 1440x1080 to fit the HDV codec. No?

David Newman

2008 January 18th, 19:01

No. That is the marketting. We believe that camera actually does scale the HDMI from 1440x1080, that way theHDMI path is the same for tape playback as it is for HDMI passthru. It is a design simplication, and therefore a cost savings measure.

CJ2008

2008 January 18th, 19:17

Thanks.

MSPI

2008 January 18th, 21:23

Well, not sure what you mean by "other filter"...see the attached file to see the settings I used to get the really jerky .avi that only plays sound (outside of vegas).....

I have NO DOUBT there is a user error just not sure what :)

Eugenia Loli-Queru

2008 January 20th, 21:52

MSPI, if your footage is PF24 and not just 60i, then you should check the "remove pulldown" option too. Also make sure your project properties on vegas are corresponding to the source footage.

cinemasteve87

2008 January 22nd, 14:40

So I would need Neo HDV for removing pulldown with Vegas 7? And could I use this program without a Blackmagic intensity card? I'm sorry if this question has already been asked before, but I am really air-headed when it comes to all this technical stuff.

David Newman

2008 January 22nd, 14:49

Steve,

NEO can be use for capturing for Vegas 6, 7 and 8. You can capture form tapes based data over firewire as well as HMDI via BM Intensity/Deckink cards, and HDSDI via AJA cards. This tool will also convert most disk/flash based HD media. Pulldown removal is an option for all sources.

cinemasteve87

2008 January 22nd, 14:56

Nevermind, all I had to do was read.

MSPI

2008 January 22nd, 20:45

Euginea,

If you read my original post I talked about this footage being 60i, NOT 24p.

David, any clarification on the "other filter" settings based on the .jpg I posted.

My trial is running out and while I am successful at getting 24p to turn out smooth, I am not successful in getting the 60i Footage .avi files to play as stated ealier....you mentioned something about "other filters"....I did post a .jpg of my settings...any thoughts?

MSPI

2008 January 25th, 20:54

Hey David,

Well, my trial period is now up and I wasn't really able to see for myself how well your software would work...as I have said, the 60i .avi with "automatic" detection created very choppy footage.

My question still stands if you care to help me understand the package...

Is "automatic" a passive setting, meaning it will only determine if it is interlaced or not...and I still need to select "de-interlace" closer to the bottom?

I assumed (and maybe wrongly so) that selecting "automatic" would deinterlace it....but maybe that is a passive setting and that is why I got choppy .avi's.

Anyway, the .jpg of my settings is still posted if you have a moment.

David Newman

2008 January 25th, 21:00

"Automatic", doesn't analyze or alter your footage, it just tell the compressors to be interlaced or progressive based on other options selected.

Auto gives:
1080i sources will be interlaced
1080i + pulldown removal will be progressive
1080i + deinterlace will be progressive

That is it. Simple.

zcream

2008 February 4th, 01:32

Just to confirm something. What happens if I do buy NeoHDV and use it with Premiere Pro and After Effects CS3 ? Why would it not work ??
Thanks!

David Newman

2008 February 4th, 10:17

Just to confirm something. What happens if I do buy NeoHDV and use it with Premiere Pro and After Effects CS3 ? Why would it not work ??
Thanks!

With After Effects it will be fine, and it will work in Premiere Pro yet it won't offer real-time functionality, with all media marked as red to require a render -- this is the default behavior of PPro with any third party media. With our Aspect HD and Prospect products, we include a Premiere Pro playback engine with real-time effects and transitions. Give both a try.

T_Bone

2008 February 9th, 17:08

For an 8-bit source (like HV20) Aspect HD and Prospect HD, both will capture the same way over Firewire. Prospect HD's advantage kicks in for post manipulation.

David

Assume price of the various Cineform programs is not an issue. What is The Best Cineform application to use with the HV20 and Premiere Pro CS3? And explain what you mean by "...Prospect HD's advantage kicks in for post manipulation."

T_Bone

2008 February 9th, 18:20

Never mind my previous post. I found your response David to the same question in a previous post in this thread...

zcream

2008 February 11th, 22:34

Thanks for confirming that. I guess that 400 bucks for AspectHD will be the way to go..
With all your products, is there a need for separate licenses if the capture and editing workstation are different ??
I was going to make a portable Intensity capture station and use my desktop for editing..

With After Effects it will be fine, and it will work in Premiere Pro yet it won't offer real-time functionality, with all media marked as red to require a render -- this is the default behavior of PPro with any third party media. With our Aspect HD and Prospect products, we include a Premiere Pro playback engine with real-time effects and transitions. Give both a try.

T_Bone

2008 February 16th, 09:39

David

I own Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 that I use on my office desktop and mobile laptop computers via the product's activation scheme. I read that Cineform only allows one activation at a time. That is, the software must be de-activated on one unit before it can be used on another unit.

While I think that I understand the purpose of Cineform's activation scheme, is or would Cineform consider a dual installation scheme like Adobe since AspectHD is touted to be a plug-in or can be an integral feature of Premiere Pro CS3? It would be a pain to have to deactivate/activate essentially a CS3 plug-in between my desktop and laptop units so often. And buying two licenses in an environment where I will use Premiere Pro CS3 either at my office or out of the office on my laptop in effectively a single use setting is cost prohibited.

David Newman

2008 February 16th, 11:05

Just like Adobe we officially support only one install but we allow two. I think this is what you are looking for.

johnrg

2008 February 22nd, 02:42

David,

My first post and interrested in Aspect or Prospect.

I just finished a :30 DV spot broadcast during the Tour of CA. Was a pro bono spot and a test to see the quality I could get from HV-20 DV sourced footage, edited, end tag linked from AE and exported to DV again and dropped off at the station for airing.

I would like to do the next step in HD but very low budget with very high graphic quality for end tags. I used to edit broadcast animation over 20 years ago and so I want to produce the best for the least. So a trade-off. Maybe not heavy composites but cuts only footage and really clean end tags and keying. Will the color space/compression scheme in Aspect give me output comparable to a DV delivered spot or is Prospect the right solution?

Appreciate the input and offer (if still available). Also what might be the best exported format for this HDV to deliver to a broadcaster such as one using Avid? or FCP?

Thanks,

John
http://www.goodmangraphic.com

David Newman

2008 February 22nd, 10:52

Will the color space/compression scheme in Aspect give me output comparable to a DV delivered spot or is Prospect the right solution?

Aspect HD is higher than DV quality, Prospect HD is D5+ quality.

Appreciate the input and offer (if still available). Also what might be the best exported format for this HDV to deliver to a broadcaster such as one using Avid? or FCP?

This part is tricky, as there are no standards other than HDCAM or D5 tape, digital file deliverables really depend on each broadcaster.

johnrg

2008 February 22nd, 12:25

Aspect HD is higher than DV quality, Prospect HD is D5+ quality.

This part is tricky, as there are no standards other than HDCAM or D5 tape, digital file deliverables really depend on each broadcaster.

Dave,

Thanks. Tested the trial and purchased Aspect. It is a joy now to have such speed in the timeline especially color correcting. Everything seems to work well.

*except one minor item, I've submitted a report on.

John

HP666

2008 March 17th, 17:24

So with the HV30 I am still looking for NEO HDV, correct?

David Newman

2008 March 17th, 18:19

NEO HDV or Aspect HD are good lower cost CineForm solutions for HV20 and HV30 cameras.

zcream

2008 March 19th, 22:42

David, Can I use Streampix, Prospect 2K and the Blackmagic Intensity capture app all installed on 1 field PC without any issues ?

I assume that Blackmagic will accept Prospect 2K..

1ALEX67

2008 March 20th, 22:56

Hello David,
What would be the best setting to make DVD video quality transferring data from HV20 to the computer ?
I have Premier Pro CS3, CineForm, Adobe Master Collection CS3.
This is what I've done so far:
Original VIDEO 24p.
1. Used CineForm transfered data from HV20 to NTSC 4:3 format ( progressive )
2. Working with NTSC 4:3 format on P.PRO CS3 editing and so on...
3. Used ENCORE to Build DVD ( MPEG 2 DVD format ).
When project is finished it 's obviously NOT DVD quality. ( quiet a bit cloudy, poor colors, over all lost approximately 40% quality compare to the original video )
What else I can use to make the corrections to my video? What I've done wrong? Please, help my! Any tips will be greatly appreciated!
Alex.

Bethrael

2008 March 24th, 15:39

Hello everyone. This is my first post. I've spent a good deal of money in my studio supplies now.

I have: Canon HV20 NTSC
Sony Vegas Pro
Windows XP Media Center

I have just downloaded and installed the trial for Neo HDV. I went to "convert", and selected a raw M2T clip, then went to "Prefs", and selected:

Automatically convert to Cineform Intermediate (*.avi, *.mov).

Destination File Format for Capture and Conversion
AVI

Quality: High

Frame Format Automatic
Frame Rate Change (Advanced)
Remove 3-2 Pulldown (HDMI, SOny V1U, Canon HV20 and P2 1080p24)

Maintain Audio Pitch

Keep Source aspect ratio

The ending result seemed to be just as "ghostly" as my original M2T file. What am I not doing right? Do I need to further process the new AVI clips in Sony Vegas or something?

Pleeease help!

Thank you.

dditzler

2008 April 10th, 12:53

Cineform for Mac users.

David thanks for the great offer. I have tried out Cineform HDV and I am loving it. Capturing on my PC or on my MacBook Pro work great. I am close to a purchase but I was interested in the full HD resolution and better color depth of the more expensive packages.

For the Mac user is there a reason to go with NeoHD over AspectHD? With the discount they both are the same price.

On the Mac platform is there a performance difference with any of the HD resolution codecs?

If Apple's Color uses it's own format is there any issues with editing in FCP with Cineform when you plan on using Color in your workflow?

and my last question is there upgrade discount for HV20.com readers to get me from NeoHDV to NeoHD when I decide I want the resolution and the color advantages? Currently I am shooting for the web but I hope that will change.

I am really loving the Cineform codec so far and the capture and conversion to 24P is great! I am a big fan!

cheers
-david

David Newman

2008 April 10th, 12:59

Aspect HD is for Windows Premiere Pro only; only NEO HD offers Mac and PC encoding licences. Unfortunately 95% of the cool stuff is still Windows based. The codec is working well under Intel OS X, but only a few of the workflow features have ported to date. If you use bootcamp, VMware or Parallels, then NEO HD will work best for you.

suppafreak

2008 April 11th, 13:24

Hello.

Does anyone using either Aspect HD or Prospect 2K with Xp64 bit? I was wondering if the programs are compatible or do I need buy any additional hardware?

Also, I looked in the Cineform web-site but could not find any Installation or User guides. What is the workflow using the Premiere CS3?

I need to decide on, what’s the easiest way to capture, edit and export video. Is it using the cineform product or capturing using HDSplit, removing pull down using some other application, importing the video into the editing software, editing and finally exporting the video?

Thanks

GlennG

2008 April 21st, 10:31

David Newman

2008 April 21st, 10:49

siriusbliss

2008 April 22nd, 02:49

Hey David,

I'm checking into Neo for capturing HD from my HV20 into Magix Movie Edit Pro as an interim capture instead of it's mpg capture - hopefully to get a better look coming into the editor.

What are the best settings for 24p capture to .avi, as I am also doing audio/music for video post in Magix Samplitude.

Also, hey - say hi to all the Applied Magic people - I may see you again soon!

Greg H.

David Newman

2008 April 22nd, 10:18

Hi Greg,

Hopeful we will catch up soon.

THe 24p capture is best using the camera 24p mode and the pulldown removal option in HDLink. Do not deinterlace, set the encode mode to progressive. That is it. Have fun.

bleedingheartfilms

2008 April 26th, 00:36

David,

I'm interested in using Cineform Aspect to compress video for editing and then purchasing additional software to compress it further for distribution on DVD or the web. Do you have any recommendations on the best software for final compression that is compatible with Cineform? I've been looking at Sorenson Squeeze.... and it seems great. Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Glenn
I am also interested in learning what programs people are using for the final compression (from a 24p Cineform Aspect file to DVD)... would love to get a list of "good" possibilities to consider...

A follow-up question: does a 24p-based DVD work with NTSC DVD players? And with PAL? And how do I get there (I'd prefer not to speed the footage up 4% for PAL)? Clearly, working with 24p is new for me...

Lastly, I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for compressing Cineform's .avi to a VCD player friendly file? DVD players aren't widespread here in Cambodia yet...

bleedingheartfilms

2008 April 26th, 00:46

By the way, I purchased Cineform Aspect HD and it's frickin' awesome... saving me A LOT of time and harddrive... any chance you would give out free Prospect upgrades for documentary filmmakers in third world countries, David? :)

zcream

2008 April 26th, 11:03

I bought NeoHD and went on a shoot with a mini-ITX PC for capture. It was a non-critical shoot - but here is something everyone needs to be aware..You need to start the camera first so the signal goes out on the HDMI port BEFORE you start HDLINK. Otherwise the program records a file with just a black image.. No errors - nothing..
At the end of the day I had 1 file that was luckily on - all the others had a black image in them..

David Newman

2008 April 26th, 11:59

zcream,
I have not heard of this. Are you saying pressing "Start" capture in HDLink before the HDMI has a signal, or launching the application before the camera has start. The first makes sense (don't do that) but I do the second all time. As long as you hit "Start" after you have picture it should matter what order HDLink is launched compared to the camera.

David Newman

2008 April 26th, 12:06

A follow-up question: does a 24p-based DVD work with NTSC DVD players? And with PAL? And how do I get there (I'd prefer not to speed the footage up 4% for PAL)? Clearly, working with 24p is new for me...

Lastly, I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for compressing Cineform's .avi to a VCD player friendly file? DVD players aren't widespread here in Cambodia yet...

24p is encoded to DVD as 60i with pulldown, so it works on all players -- it is how all commerical features film are encoded. PAL disks are always speed up 4%, you will not notice, it is the best quality way to do it. Many European movies are shoot at 25p (to match the power system - simplifies lighting issues) those films are slowed down 4% for the US market. No one notices.

TMPGEnc is a good encoder for VCD. http://www.tmpgenc.net/

zcream

2008 April 27th, 02:41

Hi David. I have the setting as 30fps PsF and I launch HDLink. then I turn the camera on - there is no signal in the HDLINK window, its still black..I pressed start and it recorded..
I thought it just did not preview..
In hindsight I should have been suspicious of the black screen, but I was not..
It was a waste of a days shoot though..

zcream,
I have not heard of this. Are you saying pressing "Start" capture in HDLink before the HDMI has a signal, or launching the application before the camera has start. The first makes sense (don't do that) but I do the second all time. As long as you hit "Start" after you have picture it should matter what order HDLink is launched compared to the camera.

David Newman

2008 April 27th, 11:02

30PsF is likely the wrong mode. PsF - Progressive segmented frames, is not mode fully supported by these cameras. You want 59.95/29.97i.

lonewolfe78

2008 May 9th, 18:16

This is a great offer and thanks David.

I'm currently building a new PC to edit to use with a soon to purchase HV30. I will be using Adobe Production Suite CS3. I plan to record almost everything in 24p mode. And please note, I am a novice.

Now, my questions are general ones that anybody is welcome to answer:

With a program like Aspect HD and non-shareware programs, does it actually improve the picture quality or just speed up the workflow? What I was surprised to read here was that dumping raw video straight from your camera onto your hard drive would actually yield lesser quality than using a third party program? Is that right?

What would be the advantage of using Blackmagic or some other capture card with Aspect HD rather than just hooking up the HV30 via Firewire and dumping it via Aspect HD? Not too well-informed on these cards or the purpose of them.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

zcream

2008 May 9th, 20:33

Thanks for that.. It works fine now. I need to start restart sometimes to get the image in the display window but once I get it - it records just fine..

30PsF is likely the wrong mode. PsF - Progressive segmented frames, is not mode fully supported by these cameras. You want 59.95/29.97i.

zcream

2008 May 9th, 20:34

How can raw video be lesser quality.
Here is the distintion
Quality
1. Raw Video
2. Cineform
3. BMJPEG
4. HDV

This is a great offer and thanks David.

I'm currently building a new PC to edit to use with a soon to purchase HV30. I will be using Adobe Production Suite CS3. I plan to record almost everything in 24p mode. And please note, I am a novice.

Now, my questions are general ones that anybody is welcome to answer:

With a program like Aspect HD and non-shareware programs, does it actually improve the picture quality or just speed up the workflow? What I was surprised to read here was that dumping raw video straight from your camera onto your hard drive would actually yield lesser quality than using a third party program? Is that right?

What would be the advantage of using Blackmagic or some other capture card with Aspect HD rather than just hooking up the HV30 via Firewire and dumping it via Aspect HD? Not too well-informed on these cards or the purpose of them.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

David Newman

2008 May 10th, 00:34

The confusion comes as the is a quality difference capturing live via HDMI to uncompressed, CineForm or other, than using the MPEG2 compression of HDV. Live HDMI capture has twice the chroma resolution and no MPEG artifacts. In some workflows even HDV to CineForm has a quality advantage if you do a lot of multi-generation (rendering out of one package into another), as CineForm maintains it quality whereas MPEG2 degenerates quickly. Of course if you are shooting 24p, there are quality impacts if you don't remove the pulldown before editing. So, yes CineForm is both a quality and workflow advantage over native HDV.

zcream

2008 May 15th, 07:51

zcream

2008 May 25th, 08:42

It seems to have been a problem with WMP - using updates has fixed. The quality of the Cineform files are awesome.

Now, the problem seems to be audio sync - the audio is out of sync. Lets see if that gets fixed..

I just came back from another test shoot. I have a portable Intensity capture station. The footage looks good. However, some of the clips have a black rectangle in the picture..The rectangle stays in a single clip. When it appears in a different clip, it is in a different place..Some clips do not have this.
It looks as if the signal was not recorded in that part of the image..Its a 2GHz Core2Duo and Filmscan 2 mode..
Is this a problem with the cable, or even the Intensity card ?
I doubt this is a problem with Cineform - but would really love to know if someone has seen this before..
Ill try post a screen grab later..

siriusbliss

2008 May 25th, 16:41

For what it's worth, my raw 24p drop captures:

.avi's look great in DivX player, slightly darker in .wmp, and sort of 'grainy' in Nero media player.

.m2t's are similar quality in Nero, but are stretched (no longer HD aspect) in DivX player, and almost black-n-white (and stretched) in .wmp.

.avi's imported into Magix Movie Edit Pro 14plus look great.

I'm still testing, and looking for best capture settings as well as testing best configuration settings for export to both youtube and Vimeo.com

Greg

zcream

2008 May 26th, 06:24

I have a T7200 with 667 Mhz RAM. i.e. Core2Duo 2Ghz..
How can I check if the frames are being dropped ? I think it should be enough - I have a flash hdd for my OS and a dedicated SATA drive for recording..
I got a fast XP install so it should be not be a bottleneck..
I know the Cineform site talks of a T7600 laptop for capture - but I want to check if I am dropping frames before I upgrade..

For what it's worth, my raw 24p drop captures:

.avi's look great in DivX player, slightly darker in .wmp, and sort of 'grainy' in Nero media player.

.m2t's are similar quality in Nero, but are stretched (no longer HD aspect) in DivX player, and almost black-n-white (and stretched) in .wmp.

.avi's imported into Magix Movie Edit Pro 14plus look great.

I'm still testing, and looking for best capture settings as well as testing best configuration settings for export to both youtube and Vimeo.com

Greg

zcream

2008 May 26th, 06:54

Hi David. You mentioned recording mode as 59.95/29.97i. However on your website it says that the recording mode for the HV20 is 24P. Just a mention that this may be confusing..
Here is another quote about the PsF mode :-
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1628

Connect the HDMI output cable to the Intensity card. Launch HDLink. Open the "Prefs" and mark the checkbox for 3:2 pulldown (which names the HV-20 specifically). It will automatically choose HD1080 8-bit 4:2:2 29.97PsF (progressive segmented frames). In this scenario, HDLink performs the pulldown on the fly and only records 24PsF to your disk as compressed files.

Also, even when I choose automatic mode in Prefs, I do not get 1080/59.95/29.97i option. I only get the PsF options..

lordtangent

2008 May 26th, 17:47

I just came back from another test shoot. I have a portable Intensity capture station. The footage looks good. However, some of the clips have a black rectangle in the picture..The rectangle stays in a single clip. When it appears in a different clip, it is in a different place..Some clips do not have this.
It looks as if the signal was not recorded in that part of the image..Its a 2GHz Core2Duo and Filmscan 2 mode..
Is this a problem with the cable, or even the Intensity card ?
I doubt this is a problem with Cineform - but would really love to know if someone has seen this before..
Ill try post a screen grab later..

I haven't seen that myself. Please post a screen shot. It sounds interesting.

One thing I have seen (not on my own gear but on other peoples) is "snow" when an HDMI cable isn't well seated or is too long. HDMI is an un-error corrected serial signal. Dropped bits just disappear and the receiving side has no way of knowing.

My personal experience with the Intensity though is that it's really finicky about signal quality and sync. I never see "snow" on my Intensity because as soon as the signal gets bad it just loses sync and drops out entirely. Even running the HDMI cable next to a transformer or a power line for a couple of feet is enough to mess it up. That surprises me since HDMI is twisted pair AND digital. It should be able to cancel it out. But everything has it's limit I guess.

zcream

2008 May 26th, 20:28

Thanks Lordtangent. It seems to be fixed - and the problem appeared to be with playback not the capture..
Using WMP for playback causes strange things - and I guess this was one of them.

venture

2008 May 31st, 13:39

I'm having trouble getting the trial download. I filled out the form several hours ago at the Cineform site to get the trial download of Aspect HD, checked my spam folder, and tried a second address (checked that spam folder too). The download link hasn't come. Is this an automated thing, or does a live human review each request, such that I won't get it until Monday?

venture

2008 May 31st, 14:02

To answer my own question, if you check around the support section of the Cineform site, you'll find the program downloads. There is a "Try It" option within HDLink, so the regular download acts as the trial download (and has the 15 day limitation).

venture

2008 May 31st, 16:09

Me again with another question. When I hit the spacebar to preview my timeline in Premiere, I get a few second delay before it actually plays. My system (3.0 dual core processor; 4 gigs of RAM, Vista 64; 7200 RPM capture drive and 10,000 RPM system drive; nVidia 8800GT GPU) didn't do this without Aspect HD. Is this normal behavior, or should I be doing some troubleshooting to figure this one out?

inazioz

2008 June 4th, 10:35

Hi there, does anyone if I can use cineform .avis in final cut pro2?
I have some files captured with the cineform intermediate codec i have to edit in FC2. Is this possible?
Thanks!

zcream

2008 June 5th, 03:26

You need the free NeoPlayer as far as I know.

Troglored

2008 June 11th, 03:45

Bought NEO HDV, used it an hour later and got perfect 24p. No 27 steps and 6 different pieces of software. Removed pulldown during capture and got on with my life. Great product. I literally could not be happier with a $199 piece of software.

zcream

2008 June 11th, 04:24

Actually David, all my questions except one have been answered.

a. How can I check after capture if I have dropped frames ?
Is there a flag that tells the NLE that there is a dropped frame ?

b. If I record from the HDC-SD9 do you support HDMI 1.3 xvYCC (using the Blackmagic Intensity card)

"The HDTV Color Connection: xvYCC

The Panasonic and Sony camcorders mentioned here (both AVCHD and HDV) support the expanded color range of the xvYCC standard, which promises an amazing 1.8 times more reds, greens and blues than standard sRGB color. With xvYCC, colors are more accurate and have smoother gradations.

xvYCC can be displayed by many new HDTVs from the two vendors, and is part of the HDMI 1.3 specification. Panasonic brands it as "Digital Cinema Color," while Sony calls it "x.v.Color." Since xvYCC is a standard, theoretically camcorders and TVs from various vendors should be interoperable, but both companies recommend sticking with one brand for both HD camcorder and HDTV for guaranteed results. If you don't have an xvYCC-capable HDTV yet, it doesn't hurt to record in this format for future use. The extra color information will simply be discarded on its way to your TV.

Note that xvYCC is related to, but not the same as, "Deep Color," another HDTV technology that refers to higher bit depth. Both increase the number of colors available, but only xvYCC is currently available in consumer camcorders."

haze2

2008 June 13th, 18:39

Hi David,

I recently purchased the Canon HF10 which offers 1920 x 1080 resolution in the AVCHD format. Which CineForm product will allow me to take full advantage of this camera while using Sony Vegas 8 for editing? Thanks

haze

David Newman

2008 June 13th, 19:20

You can use any of our products if you encode the AVI as 1440x1080. There is very little loss doing this given how heavily compressed the source is. If you want to preserve 1920x1080, then you need NEO HD to editing in Vegas 8. Give both NEO HDV and NEO HD a try.

Rumpelgeist

2008 June 13th, 19:35

Hey David, are you saying that for AVCHD camera owners there is no way but to buy Neo HD if they want to preserve full 1920x1080? But this is $600. You got to change your pricing policy or product range if you want to cater to AVCHD users. Until HMC-150 is shipping, most current AVCHD users are amateurs.

How about a product in between Neo HDV and Neo HD with 8 bit processing but with 1920x1920 frame? Or simply expand HDV to 1920x1980 because I don't think that AVCHD users have to pay more than HDV users.

I understand that real resolution is far lower than 1920 or even 1440, but... (feel free to insert a reason). Really, algorithms cost money, but I don't see how output resolution can affect price.

David Newman

2008 June 13th, 19:50

We offer $200 off on the forum for NEO HD, that is an great deal. If you really care for 1920x1080 that is the way to go.

haze2

2008 June 14th, 12:57

Thanks for the response David, I'll take your suggestion and give them both a try, and then decide.

haze

Rumpelgeist

2008 June 14th, 13:34

We offer $200 off on the forum for NEO HD, that is an great deal. If you really care for 1920x1080 that is the way to go.
What I meant is that I understand that 10-bit or 12-bit processing is more expensive because you may have proprietary algorithms to convert 8-bit to 10-bit and back. Colorspace conversion requires additional algorithms so it costs as well. Some additional features and improvements here and there. I get that. But sheer frame size should not affect the processing if the code is properly written.

There should be no difference from software standpoint between processing of 1440- and 1920- wide frames or 512- wide frame. I would appreciate if you explained how 1920 processing is different.

Duke

2008 June 14th, 19:45

Rumpelgeist

2008 June 14th, 19:59

It's just aimed at different markets. All home, and most prosumer, HDV situations will be perfect in 1440 with 1.33 pixel ratios. Usually 1920 (full HD) is for someone doing something more demanding, like an indie movie. They aren't going to change that for one camera.
This is what I am trying to get straight: is there real technical difference in processing of 1440 and 1920 frames (with other features being the same) or is it pure market segmentation. If there are real technical difficulties to process 1920 frames I would like to know what are they. It may be something as simple as "we process all data in memory, so the size of data structure is limited, so a larger structure would require a different memory allocation and lookup methods, which we have to develop, which will cost money".

haze2

2008 June 15th, 04:42

Aramis, with all due respect, you are trying to bite the hand that feeds you. David has been gracious enough to offer an outstanding discount to members of this forum, and rather than embrace his generous offer, you are asking him to justify the price structure of the CineForm marketing plan. The exact nature of any "technical difficulties" regarding the processing of 1920 frames, and how CineForm handles those challenges, is probably proprietary information that CineForm does not wish to share.

I too would like to thank David for the time he devotes to us in this forum, and for the generous price break that allows hobbyists to enjoy such wonderful software.

haze

zcream

2008 June 17th, 04:15

Cineform offer deinterlacing as well as upscaling / uprezzing. David, how does this compare to Magic Bullet or Digital Anarchy.
Also, why do you not advertise this more - i bought NeoHD but I agnonized over the decision.
399/- for realtime capture, an intermediate codec, upscaling and deinterlacing sounds a lot better..
What algorithms do you use for upscaling ? Lancsoz4 ?
And for deinterlacing is it motion detection ?

Duke

2008 June 19th, 22:56

David,

Will CineForm be at the CineGear Expo this week?

Duke

manoeuvre

2008 June 25th, 02:10

I just picked up Neo-HD, thanks for the offer David!
If anyone is wondering basic playback, no effects or layers seems fine in Premiere (without rendering). My System is a Quad Q6600 with 8GB Ram.
Basically I just need Premiere to trim footage, most of my work will be in After Effects so this suits me fine.

GA_Filmer

2008 June 30th, 19:17

David,

I am considering Cineform Aspect or Prospect. I had read in another thread about some quality issues with color saturation and brightness. However, you had replied back stating that these were issues with the Nvida cards and I think that it can be fixed with a simple setting change. Is this true?
I had downloaded a trial version and installed it on an HP computer that used on board video and experienced this very problem. The computer that it would be used on was custom built with a quad core processor and an Nvida Quatro FX 1500. So I am guessing I will have the same problem.

I also am not sure if I should go with Aspect or Prospect. I read that you recommend Prospect if you are looking to do Indi type films. I mainly will be doing weddings and training videos with average special effects. However, I do have a few products where I will be using after effects heavily with masks and multiple layers. Is this where you would NEED Prospect?

Thanks in advance for the help

kvibe

2008 July 1st, 11:50

Hi David,

I've read the whole thread and there was one post where he mentioned about importing AVI files and crashing his Adobe premiere/AE.

Well I have the same issue but it's with regards to Sony Vegas 8b and Visionlab.
The minute I import the AVI file, it crashes on me.

I tested with other AVI files that I had created doing the free 24p pulldown methods and the imports to sony and visionlab works fine.

It's too bad the poster did not post how it was resolved. I did send a ticket in and just waiting on a response. It would really appreciate it if you have a solution or if anyone have a solution to post it on the forums. There's nothing on the web or any other forum places that have this solution. It's the only thing that's holding me back from purchasing this product right now.

Thanks

David Newman

2008 July 1st, 12:01

Vegas has a bug when using the new CineForm files. Delete the old cfhd.dll from Program files/Sony Vegas Pro 8/. This will allow Vegas to use the new codec NEO installs.

Hi David,

I've read the whole thread and there was one post where he mentioned about importing AVI files and crashing his Adobe premiere/AE.

Well I have the same issue but it's with regards to Sony Vegas 8b and Visionlab.
The minute I import the AVI file, it crashes on me.

I tested with other AVI files that I had created doing the free 24p pulldown methods and the imports to sony and visionlab works fine.

It's too bad the poster did not post how it was resolved. I did send a ticket in and just waiting on a response. It would really appreciate it if you have a solution or if anyone have a solution to post it on the forums. There's nothing on the web or any other forum places that have this solution. It's the only thing that's holding me back from purchasing this product right now.

Thanks

kvibe

2008 July 1st, 17:02

Thanks for the response.

Well, I did that before, but it didn't work. However before, I renamed the .dll after neoHDV was installed. So I'll give that a try and see how it turns out. Thanks

Khoa

kvibe

2008 July 3rd, 01:16

David,

I haven't received a reply from Jake at Cineform support yet. I tried reinstalling after renaming the cfhd.dll. Still crashing my sony vegas after I try to import. Any other suggestions?

Eugenia Loli-Queru

2008 July 3rd, 02:37

>I tried reinstalling after renaming the cfhd.dll

Hopefully you didn't re-install vegas. How do you rename cfhd.dll btw? If you just rename it as cfhd2.dll, then vegas will still try to load it. You have to rename the "dll" part away, so it doesn't register as a library. So try something like this intead: cfhd.dll-OLD

kvibe

2008 July 3rd, 09:38

Hi Eugenia,

No, I didn't reinstall vegas. Only Cineform. When I renamed the cfhd.dll file, I renamed it as cfhd.dllold.

franssu

2008 August 6th, 22:30

After evaluating NEO HDV and NEO HD, I just bought NEO HDV. Thanks for the special price, this is indispensable software. I already used it for short web/ad work, and soon for some VFX elements on a major feature.

hongkongfooey

2008 August 12th, 02:45

Hi David,

Thanks for offering this discount on a great product. I currently am a current user of NEO HDV and purchased it at the full web price before knowing about your offer here. Are you offering a discount for HV20 users who are upgrading from HDV to HD?

Thanks

madjava

2008 August 19th, 20:54

A big thanks also to David and Cineform for the discount!

I'm in the process of downloading the trial version of Aspect, and would end up buying Aspect eventually; but I wanted to see if Cineform will run in my old Dell Dimension 8400 (P4 HT 3.2ghz, 2gigRAM); or need to upgrade sooner than later.

Most of our paid projects are still shot on SD (Canon XL2), but will begin migration (slowly and painfully) to HD(V) using our newly bought HV30 (and hopefully the XHA1).

Is there a general rule of downloading Cineform into the harddrive where your footage/project files are kept? Or putting Cineform in along where the OS and program files are at?

Best,

--JA

David Newman

2008 August 20th, 13:35

Is there a general rule of downloading Cineform into the harddrive where your footage/project files are kept? Or putting Cineform in along where the OS and program files are at?

the installer will put the tools on the system drive in program files, but you media can be anywhere.

zcream

2008 August 28th, 12:09

Hi David. Will there be support for the upcoming Nikon D90 ? It outputs 480P, 720P and 1080i via HDMI..IT could well be 1080i that needs pulldown to get 24P..Look at the frame grabs on dpreview's site..

http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD3/Images/Captures/HDMI/1080i_playback.jpg
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD3/Images/Captures/HDMI/1080i_playback_zoomed.jpg

It has a DSLR sensor and if I can grab the HDMI output with my Cineform Capture station to bypass the crappy onboard compression it would be really cool..

David Newman

2008 September 2nd, 14:54

The discount program has been a great success and we want to continue it. Recent E-Commerce upgrade on our end invalidated the old coupons so we now have a new coupon code for a 20% discount including Prospect HD (we had several recent enquiries for this.) The new coupon code is "HV20Forum". Thank you for all those took this opportunity in the past, and we look forward to new users with the continuing discount.

Rumpelgeist

2008 September 2nd, 15:24

David, a discount is great, but what about Cineform that comes with Vegas 8 Pro? Will it be fixed, if yes then when? What is progress on this bug (I reported it a month and a half ago and the ticket has not been updated since then). If it takes so long to fix the bug, how about giving current version of Neo HDV for free for Vegas 8 Pro users?

Also, how can I evaluate different versions of Cineform? It seems that this is officially impossible, so if I rejected buying Cineform once, I will not be able to verify what has changed in a new version. I understand that this way one can use trial version indefinitely, but you can at least allow re-evaluating when major version number changes.

The demo version I had downloaded has expired, so I downloaded a new version to keep Vegas going, but I cannot use it because my evaluation period has expired. Duh! So I tried Neo HD instead of Neo HDV, I tried converting AVCHD clips from my Panasonic HDC-SD1, they look good, but video is slowed down twice and is twice longer, while audio had normal length, this can be verified on Vegas timeline. Is this a known bug? I submitted a ticket today. Too bad you moved forums to dvinfo, as not everyone is welcomed on dvinfo forum.

David Newman

2008 September 2nd, 15:59

Aramis,

So you got yourself banned from DVInfo? I can sort of see why. ;) They didn't like the moody posts so much.

There is nothing to be fixed in Vegas 8 by CineForm, Sony ships the older components by choice and then they have a bug when detecting the newer component (you sometimes need to delete or rename the cfhd.dll from the Sony VegasPro directory.) Basically this is not our bug, although we are only guessing at you inquiry as we can't find you ticket on the subject. Do you have ticket number?

When major version changes we do extend the trial license. This last happened between 2.x and 3.x. Also it you tried NEO HDV/HD you can also trial NEO 4K, each has there own 15-day license.

Your AVCHD issues are becuase you are using a bad AVCHD decoder and/or demux. You will find the same issues playing the MTS file in MediaPlayer. We recommend Core AVC ($15) as it works well, so use that.

Rumpelgeist

2008 September 6th, 20:55

There is nothing to be fixed in Vegas 8 by CineForm, Sony ships the older components by choice and then they have a bug when detecting the newer component (you sometimes need to delete or rename the cfhd.dll from the Sony VegasPro directory.) Basically this is not our bug, although we are only guessing at you inquiry as we can't find you ticket on the subject. Do you have ticket number?
Hold your horses! What do you mean it is not Cineform's bug? Who's bug is it? Sony's? But Cineform is not their product. Are saying that you sold a buggy old version to Sony for a dime only for Sony to claim built-in Cineform support in Vegas? You knew many prospective Vegas users would jump on the idea of having Cineform for free, yet you provided Sony with buggy version? What do you suggest me to do now? To buy a full version for $200+? This is a perverse business model. Why? It was included in Vegas, it does not work, it is a bug and should be fixed. If a fix means granting me a complete non-trial license for current Neo HDV software let it be, I will gladly accept such a fix, and will update the DLL manually, not a biggie.

Your AVCHD issues are becuase you are using a bad AVCHD decoder and/or demux. You will find the same issues playing the MTS file in MediaPlayer. We recommend Core AVC ($15) as it works well, so use that.
I do use CoreAVC. Is there any way to find out what AVC decoder HDLink is using? When I run BSPlayer I see that it uses CoreAVC.

BTW, converted AVCHD clip looks more "punchy" in Cineform codec. Do you change gamma, or adjust to computer RGB or it is a result of converting to 4:2:2? Will Neo HDV look as good as Neo HD?

While we are talking about HDLink. The UI got better, at least it is an improvement from horrendous mishmash of radibuttons and checkboxes in previous versions. Still, I would prefer it to look like a real application, not like a dialog box. Wizards will not hurt. Oh, I cannot re-encode already encoded file, how come? I change some settings and want to re-encode it again, I cannot. I have to delete it from the list of encoded files (using a local menu no less), then to select it again.

Yep, DVInfo banned me for um... moody posts. This does not mean that my posts are untrue (sometimes they are :)) Even funnier, the reason for banning was that I bashed Canon cameras. What a load of crap. But I said then and I can say it now, a joystick instead of a focus ring is lame design.

David Newman

2008 September 6th, 21:04

Hold your horses! What do you mean it is not Cineform's bug? Who's bug is it? Sony's? But Cineform is not their product. Are saying that you sold a buggy old version to Sony for a dime only for Sony to claim built-in Cineform support in Vegas? You knew many prospective Vegas users would jump on the idea of having Cineform for free, yet you provided Sony with buggy version? What do you suggest me to do now? To buy a full version for $200+? This is a perverse business model. Why? It was included in Vegas, it does not work, it is a bug and should be fixed. If a fix means granting me a complete non-trial license for current Neo HDV software let it be, I will gladly accept such a fix, and will update the DLL manually, not a biggie.

Don't know what you are talking about. The Vegas version works fine, and is not buggy, it is just old. The old part means it is not compatible with newer content, it is not buggy at all. We have given Sony newer version yet they ship the old verison, nothing we can do about that. If there is a bug in our current software under Vegas, please report that to support. We also allow you to install the latest decoder for free, for Vegas, if there is a problem with that please contact support.

Rumpelgeist

2008 September 6th, 23:11

http://www.hv20.com/showpost.php?p=112293&postcount=3
http://supportcenteronline.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=614&ticketID=6504095

http://www.hv20.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2231&d=1216537379

What can you tell me about AVCHD conversion? I use CoreAVC with Haali splitter installed. When HDLink converts a clip, I can see that the splitter is invoked, but I don't know which AVC codec is used. I also have WinDVD SE player, so maybe its codec is used, but there is no way to verify it. Even if it were true, how do I use CoreAVC and WinDVD on one machine and have HDLink working?

EDIT: Ok, I removed WinDVD, nothing changed, converted video is still twice slow. Here is the ticket I created 4 days ago: http://supportcenteronline.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=614&ticketID=6662646

David Newman

2008 September 7th, 14:34

Something weird with your setup, no one has every reported anything like that.

To test your AVCHD codecs, use GraphEdit. Throw an AVCHD file on graphedit and it will show you what components MediaPlayer and HDLink will use.

Rumpelgeist

2008 September 7th, 20:16

Something weird with your setup, no one has every reported anything like that.
Are you talking about buggy Cineform included with Vegas, or twice longer rendered result when converted from AVCHD?

In regards to buggy Cineform that comes with Vegas 8, at least one other Vegas user has this problem, I provided the link above.

In regards to AVCHD conversion, my filter list is attached to this message.

2008 September 7th, 20:24

Aramis, I hope you can resolve your issues with CineForm or whatever else might be the problem.
I know how frustrating this sort of stuff can be.

I think David is genuinely trying to help you. Referring to the version that comes with VEGAS 8 as buggy might not be the best way to get him "on your side", especially as he explained what the deal is there, and that SONY isn't including the newest version, although Cineform has provided them with it.

I, and MANY others here, appreciate the input and help David is offering to us, and I'd not like to see him leave because of a situation that gets out of hand.

Again, best of luck with your problems, I hope they get resolved soon, and to your satisfaction.

Rumpelgeist

2008 September 7th, 21:27

Mal, feel free to remove whatever posts you feel irrelevant. This is your forum. Discussing technical questions in a marketing thread is indeed inappropriate.

2008 September 7th, 21:33

No need to remove anything in here, I don't think. And I hope you didn't take it the wrong way; I want you to get your issues resolved (if I'd know more about cineform and all your stuff, I might of offered help also, but I am totally in the dark regarding your specific issue). Just didn't want David to feel alienated, that's all.

bilbo

2008 September 19th, 00:31

David Newman

2008 September 19th, 12:50

Not sure if this has been said before, but I've been thinking and the good folks over at Cineform might stand to make quite a lump O' cash by selling HD-link on its own. There's lots of Hv20 owners that would love a quick fix to that little pulldown problem and HD-link does a great job of it in a neat and efficient way. I've tried the demo myself and since then have not wanted to go back to the old way, capturing then running the clips through Eugenia's method (as good and as free as it is, thanks again) HD-link makes it a great deal faster. It's especially useful if you've got many projects and have usual loads of clips to capture.

I propose the people over at Cineform, release a stand alone capture app. Aside from making money from people who normally wouldn't have forked over $199 for the Neo Hd bundle, it would be almost criminally easy to release. Essentially Neo HD, sans the Neo part.

It is nice idea, but with one technical issue. The reason our pulldown removal works so well, is we have a fast robust codec to store the result within. HDLink + Codec = NEO. If we remove the codec, we have to making HDLink hook up to every type of codec, many of which don't have the performance and quality needed. Plus is it engineering time to test all those codec options. Once reason we can offer NEO as lower as we do, is the flexibility of the CienForm codec, with CineForm you are don't purchasing a codec, you purchasing a better workflow.

bilbo

2008 September 19th, 21:53

It is nice idea, but with one technical issue. The reason our pulldown removal works so well, is we have a fast robust codec to store the result within. HDLink + Codec = NEO. If we remove the codec, we have to making HDLink hook up to every type of codec, many of which don't have the performance and quality needed. Plus is it engineering time to test all those codec options. Once reason we can offer NEO as lower as we do, is the flexibility of the CienForm codec, with CineForm you are don't purchasing a codec, you purchasing a better workflow.

Hmm, I'm not sure I follow. So HD-link is using a special codec? Or is Neo the codec? Sorry for my ignorance. I downloaded the demo, but never used Neo. I used HD-link to capture footage, which seemed to be in .avi format. I was able to edit the .avi clips perfectly.

David Newman

2008 September 19th, 22:08

Hmm, I'm not sure I follow. So HD-link is using a special codec? Or is Neo the codec? Sorry for my ignorance. I downloaded the demo, but never used Neo. I used HD-link to capture footage, which seemed to be in .avi format. I was able to edit the .avi clips perfectly.

You where experiencing the benefits of the CineForm codec, which can be wrapped as an AVI or MOV. HDLink is the capture and conversion tool with all the image processing features, and it is using the CineForm codec to store all the results. NEO is HDLink with the CineForm codec, so we already have the package you need.

bilbo

2008 September 19th, 22:13

You where experiencing the benefits of the CineForm codec, which can be wrapped as an AVI or MOV. HDLink is the capture and conversion tool with the image processing feature, and it using the CineForm codec to store all the results. NEO is HDLink and the CineForm codec, so we already have the package you need.

Ah, I see. Well, thanks for clearing that up. Still, I'm in still in the group that just can't shell out $200 for that. Thanks none the less.

RobPhoboS

2008 October 7th, 06:34

Just trialing AspectHD for PP cs3, think it works great... but you have definitely out priced me as I'm not making any money with my footage.

Gujustud

2008 December 2nd, 03:35

Just trialing AspectHD for PP cs3, think it works great... but you have definitely out priced me as I'm not making any money with my footage.

I'm in the same books, just testing it out right now. I wish there was a cheaper version (say only the HDLink software) just for removing pulldown for us HV20 users.

David Newman

2008 December 31st, 01:29

More changes to the product line up that I think many of you on the edge to use CineForm will like.

While in the HV20form discount code has finally ended the new product line-up still has tools at even lower prices. Previously you got $50 off NEO HDV for a 1440x1080 product (around $200 after discount) now you can get NEO Scene a 1920x1080 licensed product that automatically removes pulldown from HDV and AVCHD sources for only $129. For higher-end users NEO HD's standard price has dropped $100, so the discount is no longer needed. While Aspect HD has been discontinued, Prospect HD has falled $250, to $749. We hope this answers the needs from the casual user to the professional.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm

siriusbliss

2008 December 31st, 02:38

C8X

2008 December 31st, 02:58

Hi David, I'm right on that edge, and very happy to see Neo Scene, I'm surprised (delighted) about the price drop and the 1920x1080 capability! You mentioned on DVinfo about a possible shakeup, I was afraid it was going the other way..

Sadly the resampling is gone, in my few days of experience with Neo HDV I liked being able to transcode AVCHD directly to 720p, as these files were small enough to consider archiving, but the 1080p aren't. So it's a bit of a twist that since I am less professional and don't want to archive 1080p most of the time, I would have to buy the professional product Neo HD to get on the fly resampling. Of course I can do this afterwards from my NLE but that's now more like the old workflow I am fleeing from. It's a minor issue but something I noticed immediately.

If I can also take this chance to make a few suggestions? My dvinfo account hasn't been auth'ed for a few days, I would rather post there, but I guess the admins are enjoying some nice holidays.

1. Log reporting of AVCHD decoder. In Neo HDV the HDLink log reported which AVCHD decoder was being used, but Neo Scene's version didn't do this. If you noticed my support ticket from the weekend, I had a problem transcoding and later found it was due to FFDshow taking precedence over CoreAVC. I was able to clue in about this problem because HD Link's log showed a warning icon and "unknown AVCHD decoder being used". Once I disabled h.264 in FFDshow, and turned on CoreAVC's system tray appearance, and started a new conversion, I saw the Core icon pop up and in the log it reported CoreAVC was being used. It would be nice if Neo Scene reports this as well, since I was able to help myself and close my own ticket due to that decoder reporting. I hope this isn't only in the pro builds.

2. Drag and Drop. As much as I love your product, it's almost unforgivable that you don't allow drag and drop of source clips into HDLink, I hate explorer and use total commander, and it pains me greatly to start browsing from my desktop to find the files that I already have sitting there ready to go.

3. Conversion progress. Nearly as unforgivable ;-) Almost every utility that relates to video editing gives a numeric percentage or time remaining estimate, often in the title bar so it's available at a glance in the task bar. Even the freeware route, mencoder.exe, that I used before running to Cineform has an accurate time remaining calculation output. It lets me know if I should make a coffee, watch a movie, or just go to sleep and come back tomorrow. As I was also resampling to 720p the processing times were quite long and it was only by doing a bit of math on the previously converted file's output size & getting the start and stop time stamps from the logs that I could gauge roughly how many hours I was in for.

I hope you consider these issues, it seems to me that all three are relatively basic changes to the UI. Regardless, I'll be purchasing Neo Scene very soon. Great product.

Rumpelgeist

2008 December 31st, 03:31

David Newman

2008 December 31st, 11:27

1. Log reporting of AVCHD decoder. In Neo HDV the HDLink log reported which AVCHD decoder was being used, but Neo Scene's version didn't do this. If you noticed my support ticket from the weekend, I had a problem transcoding and later found it was due to FFDshow taking precedence over CoreAVC. I was able to clue in about this problem because HD Link's log showed a warning icon and "unknown AVCHD decoder being used". Once I disabled h.264 in FFDshow, and turned on CoreAVC's system tray appearance, and started a new conversion, I saw the Core icon pop up and in the log it reported CoreAVC was being used. It would be nice if Neo Scene reports this as well, since I was able to help myself and close my own ticket due to that decoder reporting. I hope this isn't only in the pro builds.

2. Drag and Drop. As much as I love your product, it's almost unforgivable that you don't allow drag and drop of source clips into HDLink, I hate explorer and use total commander, and it pains me greatly to start browsing from my desktop to find the files that I already have sitting there ready to go.

3. Conversion progress. Nearly as unforgivable ;-) Almost every utility that relates to video editing gives a numeric percentage or time remaining estimate, often in the title bar so it's available at a glance in the task bar. Even the freeware route, mencoder.exe, that I used before running to Cineform has an accurate time remaining calculation output. It lets me know if I should make a coffee, watch a movie, or just go to sleep and come back tomorrow. As I was also resampling to 720p the processing times were quite long and it was only by doing a bit of math on the previously converted file's output size & getting the start and stop time stamps from the logs that I could gauge roughly how many hours I was in for.

I hope you consider these issues, it seems to me that all three are relatively basic changes to the UI. Regardless, I'll be purchasing Neo Scene very soon. Great product.

All good points.

1. Neo Scene comes with it own AVC Decoder, we no longer require Core AVC. This is to help the bulk of the users who are purchasing this product as there don't want to deal with AVC decoder issues.

2. You are total correct, that has been missing forever. Unfortunately the core of HDLink makes it tricker than it should be. I will bring it up on the priority list again.

3. That was missed in the first release -- needed to get it out before the end of the year. HDV progress works, we just need to do the same for AVCHD.

David

C8X

2008 December 31st, 19:13

Thanks David, I didn't see the internal decoder mentioned anywhere but there's another tick in cineform's favour.

RatInDaHat

2009 January 1st, 04:16

So confused.

I was just about to purchase Neo HDV, but i see it is discontinued.

For 24p pulldown, will Neo sceen work for me or do i need to go to Neo HD? if it helps, i'm using Edius 5 for my NLE.

thanks,
-Dusty-

C8X

2009 January 1st, 04:43

Neo Scene is much cheaper than HDV was, it will allow you to output a higher resolution AVI than HDV allowed, and it still does the same pulldown removal. All good changes compared to HDV, just grab the trial and see.

I'm not sure that HV/HF/HG users would need Neo HD -- you'd have to want the 12-bit colour support or the super high film scan compression qualities to go that route.

RatInDaHat

2009 January 1st, 05:03

does discount apply still? or should i just be happy that i'm saving a bit of green?

Thanks,
-Dusty-

David Newman

2009 January 1st, 13:41

Discount is no longer active. NEO Scene is priced and feature targetted to comsumers how need 24p extract and AVI for easier editing and nothing much more for HDV or AVCHD sources. NEO HD supports a much larger range of cameras, and many more conversion and filtering features for professional applications.

dcloud

2009 January 1st, 13:58

hi david

sorry if this was asked before but could you lay the new cineform products out and which product would suit a specific need & etc?

David Newman

2009 January 1st, 15:13

Only new product is NEO Scene. NEO HD, Prospect HD, and 4K products simply have new pricing. NEO Scene is a little more than the old NEO HDV, is it is no longer limited to 1440x1080 HDV by adding 1920x1080 support for AVCHD with the video decoders needed for either HDV or AVCHD sources. Most importantly for this forum, the NEO Scene does support 24p extract from 60i pulldown sources. What NEO Scene does not include is: support for other non-HDV/AVCHD cameras like, P2, XDCAM HD/EX, Red, SI, all these new video enabled SLRs, also feature like resizing, deinterlacing 60i to 30p, frame rate conversions, MOV file creation, file wrapping, active metadata, RAW and 444 processing, live HDMI (Intensity) or HDSDI (Decklink or AJA Xena) capture, or a DirectShow enabled multiple use encoder -- these features and many more are only in our professional product lines (HD and 4K series.)

Rumpelgeist

2009 January 1st, 16:02

David Newman

2009 January 1st, 17:47

David, NEO Scene has "convert to 24p" option but it does not have an explicit "remove pulldown" option. I take it, Neo Scene can convert regular 60i into 24p as well. In this case I would prefer two distinct options: one when I want to IVTC but don't want to convert 60i into 24p so the tool would notify me if I do so, another option to forcefully convert regular 60i into 24p.

Then you likely the more feature rich NEO HD. NEO Scene is for consumers how don't need too many options. The "Convert to 24p" mode extracts pulldown if detected or converts regular 60i to 24p if not.

Rumpelgeist

2009 January 1st, 18:11

Then you likely the more feature rich NEO HD. NEO Scene is for consumers how don't need too many options. The "Convert to 24p" mode extracts pulldown if detected or converts regular 60i to 24p if not.
Consumers who "don't need to many options" don't need 24p. Those who do need it usually have at least basic understanding of the process and want a better level of control as well as better feedback. At the very least, it should log a message like "Pulldown detected, performing IVTC" or "Converting native 60i to 24p" respectively.

What about shooting 24p-in-60i and native interlaced clips onto one tape, then ingesting them? I can see a valid use case, when one would like to IVTC 24p clips, but wants to keep native 60i as interlaced, say for slo-mo scenes. If I understand correctly, Neo Scene cannot provide this feature. Can Neo HD be configured this way?

David Newman

2009 January 1st, 18:52

Consumers who "don't need to many options" don't need 24p. Those who do need it usually have at least basic understanding of the process and want a better level of control as well as better feedback. At the very least, it should log a message like "Pulldown detected, performing IVTC" or "Converting native 60i to 24p" respectively.

What about shooting 24p-in-60i and native interlaced clips onto one tape, then ingesting them? I can see a valid use case, when one would like to IVTC 24p clips, but wants to keep native 60i as interlaced, say for slo-mo scenes. If I understand correctly, Neo Scene cannot provide this feature. Can Neo HD be configured this way?

I think many here would disagree with consumers "don't need 24p", pretty much the many requests from this site helped craft base specs for this new product -- imagine if it didn't have 24p extraction -- remember people here are a step above a home video shooter, but a consumer class as they aren't making money from most productions. If you label your tapes you can have 24p conversions on one tape and 60i on the next, that works fine on all our products. What you want is an automatically pulldown removal only if preset, that is more tricky than it sounds, and is not offered.

C8X

2009 January 1st, 23:01

I have to side with David on this, I would never have paid attention to cineform if not for the pulldown removal aspect, the codec/workflow is a bonus extra that I am now starting to appreciate much more.

The canon manual says that PF24 will give a more cinematic look to the recording, so you can be sure many people will attempt to use it without understanding what telecine means, then come here and ask the usual questions instead of searching, and this will lead them to the free utilities and Neo Scene, for the sole purpose of pulldown removal.

Do I need 24p or a cinematic look? Nope, but at the time I wanted to use Vimeo's HD service and word on the street was that it butchered 30p into pseudo 24p. Since then I favour 24p mainly for the slightly lower bandwidth when the video has to be transcoded to FLV. My audience is purely online friends & family via youtube, vimeo, facebook.

cornreaper

2009 January 3rd, 02:19

Advantages from "sidegrading" from 'HDV' to 'Scene' aside, are there any features lost by switching to 'Scene'?

Rumpelgeist

2009 January 3rd, 20:13

How do I get back Cineform DLL from Vegas 8 pro after my try period for Neo Scene has expired? Do I have to reinstall Vegas? Does Cineform perform backup of existing files when installed separately?

Another issue: every time I start Vegas, I get the freaking Cineform reminder that my trial version has expired. I haven't tried exporting to Cineform for crying out loud. I may never do it. I am starting a completely different program. Earlier versions start complaining only when I wanted to export, this was far more logical and modest behavior. How do I get rid of this dialog window?

David Newman

2009 January 4th, 11:29

Uninstall NEO Scene if it is expired, then everything we revert to how it was before. We don't replace the old CFHD.dll Vegas ships.

2009 January 6th, 12:19

So, what's up David?

What products will be available for the HDV and AVCHD cams?

Any hv20.com discounts?

Eugenia Loli-Queru

2009 January 6th, 12:49

David Newman

2009 January 6th, 12:50

So, what's up David?

What products will be available for the HDV and AVCHD cams?

Any hv20.com discounts?

No need for discounts, all price have have the discounts as standard or better, HD product prices dropped between 20%-33%, and we added Neo Scene at nearly half the price of the old NEO HDV (discontinued) and it adds AVC Decoders and support for 1920x1080 CineForm encodes.

The line-up for Canon 24p camera users:

Neo Scene - $129 (pulldown removal, and file conversion for all HDV and AVCHD sources and CineForm AVI encoding.)
Neo HD - $499 (adds more quality, more camera types, more filters, HDMI/HDSDI capture, MOV, rewrap -- i.e. a pro tool.)
Prospect HD - $749 (adds to NEO HD, Premiere Pro acceration HDSDI monitor, real-time effects etc.)

2009 January 6th, 12:59

David Newman

2009 January 6th, 13:25

I just read the news about NeoSCENE. I am very glad to see this product, doing pulldown removal, at an acceptable price for consumers. 1.5 years ago, when I first contacted the two Davids at Cineform, I suggested such a product, but it was not met well because Cineform at the time was focused at the big guys mostly. But it's good to see the company realizing that there this new emerging market that needs catering. Thank you guys. This utility is a must have. And it's good to see that at least someone can profit from Canon's design screw ups.

1.5 Years ago we a larger mostly professional HDV user base, now with AVCHD HD is a far stronger consumer focus, we have a tool for that. We still very much have a big guy play, focusing on performance and quality, which helps our entire user base from the high-end to the low-end.

David Newman

2009 January 6th, 13:40

Cool.

So can I change the title of this thread then?

It should probably not state "CineForm offer for HV20.com readers" if there is no offer.

Oh, and the first thread should be updated too. Let me know what you want it to read now.
otherwise we can close this thread with a notice that this is now all obsolete, and we can start a new thread.

Let me know a.s.a.p....

If we close this thread, I would love to have a good location for CineForm related posts, like we do over at DVinfo, but here for a better focus on Canon 24p workflows and support. We have picked up hundreds of users through this forum alone (that coupon code was only ever posted here.) Maybe a sticky thread under "HV20/HV30 24p workflow", titled something like "CineForm 24p workflows."

P.S. What does sponsorship look like at HV20.com?

Rumpelgeist

2009 January 6th, 13:42

I think many here would disagree with consumers "don't need 24p", pretty much the many requests from this site helped craft base specs for this new product -- imagine if it didn't have 24p extraction -- remember people here are a step above a home video shooter, but a consumer class as they aren't making money from most productions.
Exactly my point. People on this forum are not regular consumers and deserve better control on what is happening to their videos.

If you label your tapes you can have 24p conversions on one tape and 60i on the next, that works fine on all our products. What you want is an automatically pulldown removal only if preset, that is more tricky than it sounds, and is not offered.
What if I have 24p and 30PsF and 60i on one tape? On one memory card? On one humongous 15-hour hard disk? Are you seriously suggesting shooting in one mode, then dump files from the HDD onto a laptop, clean it up, then record in another mode? What if I dumped all my clips into one directory? Are you suggesting wading through them manually, prescreening them and sorting by whatever mode there were shot in? This is just insane.

I think the feature I am asking for is simple to implement, considering that you already analyze clips, so the hardest part is already done. I want to have three checkboxes:

Deinterlace 50i/60i [ ]
Deinterlace 24p-in-60i [ ]
Deinterlace 25PsF/30PsF [ ]

If "Deinterlace 50i/60i" is selected you would offer "blend to 25p/30p", "bob to 50p/60p" or "single field to 25p/30p".

If "single field to 25p/30p" is chosen, you would offer selection of "top field" or "bottom field".

Then the tool will analyze structure of the clips and will try to make its best judgement on their format, and convert only ones that are selected to be converted.

for every file that is converted, Cineform should output the detailed log info. It should be possible to save the log file. Also, there should be an option of naming/renaming converted clips in accordance to conversion done to them. Maybe putting them in different directories too.

This would be a really great tool. As of right now, Neo Scene is just a bait-and-switch product.

Emanuel

2009 January 7th, 02:14

And about this one:

http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoScene.htm

No offer?

David Newman

2009 January 7th, 11:10

And about this one:

http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoScene.htm

No offer?

We feel no special offer is needed, it argressively priced with more resolution than the old NEO HDV.

dpFilms

2009 January 13th, 16:41

Edit: My question was answered immediately above. Apologies for the noise.

kanauru

2009 January 22nd, 00:53

No need for discounts, all price have have the discounts as standard or better, HD product prices dropped between 20%-33%, and we added Neo Scene at nearly half the price of the old NEO HDV (discontinued) and it adds AVC Decoders and support for 1920x1080 CineForm encodes.

The line-up for Canon 24p camera users:

Neo Scene - $129 (pulldown removal, and file conversion for all HDV and AVCHD sources and CineForm AVI encoding.)
Neo HD - $499 (adds more quality, more camera types, more filters, HDMI/HDSDI capture, MOV, rewrap -- i.e. a pro tool.)
Prospect HD - $749 (adds to NEO HD, Premiere Pro acceration HDSDI monitor, real-time effects etc.)

Hey David, I'm interested in the Neo Scene, since I've found that pulling down my videos takes up too much time. I was wondering what you actually mean by "adds more quality" for the Neo HD. I use Premiere Pro and was wondering what would be best for me. Aspect HD seemed to be recommended but since it's discontinued does that mean it's successor is Prospect HD? Or should Neo Scene suit me fine.Thanks.

2009 January 24th, 07:01

What does sponsorship look like at HV20.com?

Well, what's it worth to ya?

Also, the person who does Cineform's website must of gotten his/her website design
certificate out of a cereal box.......back in 1997! :eek:
Links to NeoScene are all screwed up too... YIKES!

http://hv20.net/cf1.gif

http://hv20.net/cf2.gif

http://hv20.net/cf3.gif

(and: thread title changed, first post edited to reflect no hv20.com discount given anymore, and thread unstuck...)

lobstaman

2009 February 5th, 21:08

I'm interested in buying NeoScene but I have 2 questions before I place the order.

1: Once installed can I then export a project from Premiere Pro CS3 into the cineform codec lossless? Eg: Export>Movie>Microsoft AVI (Cineform Codec 1440x1080 .. 1.33 .. bit depth=Project..upper field.. uncheck re-compress ... etc)? This would be awesome because then I could use the cineform file with alternate dvd creator to encode to dvd.

2: I downloaded the trial of neoscene and i captured a reg m2t and then captured with neoscene .. I put both clips in PP CS3 and the m2t showed green above it and the cineform showed red (ie needed rendering) .. is this normal with cineform files?