eCost.com (Post Thanksgiving) $709.99

[verbosity]

Another price drop, makes this lovely camera available at $709.99.

By far the lowest price, excluding the scam warehouses.

[Erik Bien]

Uhh, eCost.com is one of the "scam warehouses." Lifetime 3.79 out of 10 at Reseller Ratings (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/eCost).

You have all of two posts to your name ... on the off chance you're not a spamming shill for eCost.com ... I would suggest you READ THE STICKY (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=112) before posting anymore "great deals." Kthx.

[verbosity]

Hello Erik,

I came across this site a couple days back while researching the hv20.

As part of my research, I have kept track of prices, and there is a significant difference in pre vs. post thanksgiving deals.

I have 2 posts as of today, since I felt I would share 2 of the lowest priced deals. Amazon being the more credible one, while eCost being slightly questionable. *Please look at the bottom of the post for 3 independent reviewers who have accorded positive ratings to eCost.

To the best of my knowledge it is not a scam warehouse, those are the brooklyn-type scams, esp. if they allow you to place an order with a credit card, you have the option to cancel the order and return the product if you are overcharged or offered the wrong configuration. Ecost seemed legit to me, it had average reviews on price grabber, street prices and a few other comparison shopping sites. In fact, in the early 2000's I have considered them several times as a listed vendor on CNET. Even at reseller ratings, over 700 folks have commented on their purchase experience. While I do agree that a few may have had a shoddy experience, esp. when they are offered cheaper imported models, the essence of all online shopping hovers on the principle of caveat emptor, i.e. buyer beware.

The scam warehouses are all offering a price below $600. I have come across a few which support only western union money transfers, and these sites typically have no reviews anywhere. Those are the real scamsters.

I apologize if I came across as 'shilling' or whatever that is in your parlance. I am an enthusiast who is looking for the right price before I make a purchase. The idea was to make others in the buying process aware of the options, not to peddle some site.

Sam

P.S: In your 'sticky' is there any particular post or link you want us to see? I looked at the discussion, no mention of ecost anywhere, same for the link to other resources on the page.

Here are a few links that suggest eCost is a trustworthy site:

http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/ecostcom/r/6/

http://www.bizrate.com/ratings_guide/cust_reviews__mid--18045.html

http://www4.dealtime.com/xMR-ecost+com~MRD-9049~S-1

[SalaTar]

Why doesn’t one of the ADMINS post a sticky, that canon actively regulates its price to real vendors?

If its lees than that they are no longer a vendor and have stepped into Grey market

[verbosity]

That's a good point SalaTar.

But the question is, how do we determine what price is the cut-off, below which level Canon concedes a deal to be a grey market transaction. Do forum admins have access to Canon's pricing cut-off's?

For example, at $744, Amazon.com does not display the price anymore, until you add the product to the checkout. It says this price is too low for the manufacturer to agree to, hence it cannot be displayed until you are ready to make a purchase. Does this mean amazon.com is a grey market vendor?

[Erik Bien]

Sam,

Even your links raise more than a few red flags:

From Pricegrabber 11/05/07:

"The MP3 player I ordered arrived labeled "REFURBISHED." Website does NOT state that it is refurbished. Called "Customer Service" and they will not allow it to be returned. DO NOT TRUST THIS COMPANY!! "

From bizrate 11/21/07:

"The eCost customer service experience has been the worst yet. I ordered an item and received incorrect parts necessary for the device to function."

Never heard of dealtime before, but judging by the pattern of favorable "reviews" (near-identical one-liners obviously written by company employees) it's one of the bogus review sites set up by the scam artists to fool the unwary. There's a reason the very first post of the sticky advises, in bold, CHECK RESELLER RATINGS.

Now, if you really are legit (and I seriously have my doubts), I'm sorry. Maybe if you'd been here the last, oh, two dozen times or so some newbie posted a deal that was too good to be true, and admins had to run around deleting misleading threads to protect the more gullible, you'd understand my reaction a bit better.

For anyone else unfortunate enough to be following this thread, please do read the above mentioned sticky, do your due diligence about any company before you pay them hundreds of dollars for anything, and don't believe everything you read!

[SalaTar]

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=WhereToBuyIndexAct

http://www.resellerratings.com/

Example:

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/eCost

[ESTEBEVERDE]

That's a good point SalaTar.

But the question is, how do we determine what price is the cut-off, below which level Canon concedes a deal to be a grey market transaction. Do forum admins have access to Canon's pricing cut-off's?

For example, at $744, Amazon.com does not display the price anymore, until you add the product to the checkout. It says this price is too low for the manufacturer to agree to, hence it cannot be displayed until you are ready to make a purchase. Does this mean amazon.com is a grey market vendor?


You are absolutely incorrect my friends.

It's illegal for any distributor/manufacturer to set an independent retailer's prices.

It is a violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust act and is a Federal crime.

They can get away with requiring that only MSRPish prices be advertised but even that is thin ice.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

From what I have heard I personally would never ever shop at eCost.com.

Shady Shady Shady

[verbosity]

Hmm, viewing the red flags across various reseller monitors, it may be safer not to risk a purchase at eCost, even though 50% of the folks had a decent experience.

What we do know is they have a mixed bag record, but their unreliability tends to bring an element of risk which is not warranted.

Also at $30 over eCost, Amazon seems like a better bet. Esp. for the quality assurance and the knowledge that returns will be accepted.

[Northern Lights]

You are absolutely incorrect my friends.

It's illegal for any distributor/manufacturer to set an independent retailer's prices.

It is a violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust act and is a Federal crime.

They can get away with requiring that only MSRPish prices be advertised but even that is thin ice.

What you say was the case for ninety-six years but, as Inspector Clouseau might say, "not anymore."

This summer, the U.S. Supreme Court threw out the rule that absolutely forbade manufacturers to enforce minimum prices. Instead, they said that such matters had to be decided case-by-case according to the "rule of reason," but that manufacturers did have the right to impose such restrictions in principle. The Court also ruled that such required minimum prices can "stimulate competition"...in that, if you don't like the mandatory minimum price a manufacturer can impose, you can always choose a less-expensive product from a competitor...I guess... :hv20-smilie49:

Anyway, here's a link to a news story about the decision:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/28/business/price.php

[ESTEBEVERDE]

What you say was the case for ninety-six years but, as Inspector Clouseau might say, "not anymore."

This summer, the U.S. Supreme Court threw out the rule that absolutely forbade manufacturers to enforce minimum prices. Instead, they said that such matters had to be decided case-by-case according to the "rule of reason," but that manufacturers did have the right to impose such restrictions in principle. The Court also ruled that such required minimum prices can "stimulate competition"...in that, if you don't like the mandatory minimum price a manufacturer can impose, you can always choose a less-expensive product from a competitor...I guess... :hv20-smilie49:

Anyway, here's a link to a news story about the decision:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/28/business/price.php


GREAT FIND!!!! :hv20-smilie77:



Our country is so deep in the toilet right now a gorilla with a plunger couldn't get us out! :hv20-smilie49:

[verbosity]

In a way the role of government or legislation is nullified with the influx of technology at our disposal, especially the Internet and ease of access to information.

If any manufacturer imposes a higher-than-fair price, or more likely a distributor trying to pad up or create supply bottlenecks, any buyer worth their salt would simply ignore that distributor.

We have so many choices and real-time information on prices across shopping comparison sites.

I guess the biggest challenge for consumers is not restricted to finding the 'right' price, but the right vendor who offers the right price.

I came across at least 4 scam vendors who had elaborate sites, a few were in Google's product database, yet after searching for them you can find articles about them being fake.

But what would prevent a site from having their own people go out and write positive reviews for their scam sites? Is there a fool-proof way to judge if a site is genuine, esp. when it has mixed reviews.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

The other major problem is when the manufacturers and wholesellers and retailers conspire to form blocks that artificially regulate price.

There are only a few factories who make CPUs, RAM, OPTICAL SENSORS....

I think we need to be careful and not allow the big boys the opportunity to to form syndicates that are predatory.

[VideoMan]

I just picked up my HV20 for home movies from Circuit City for $778.

I almost purchased from eCost because of their lower price (also no tax). I have purchased from them before without any issues, but I really wanted to buy this camcorder from an authorized dealer.

As a general rule, I prefer to buy from an authorized dealer because of the horror experiences I've had in the past.

As a resident of the Bronx, NY, I've seen the most outrageous prices/deals/scams from Brooklyn, Manhattan and all they way up north to the Bronx.

The horror stories you read on the internet are only one-third of the abuses that go unreported in this part of town. You have to understand that the Bronx is like a third-world country in the US. There are hundreds of store-front electronic shops scamming people left and right and because most people are minority groups, they are completely unaware of their rights or laws that protect them.

If you ever feel a calling for the mission field, don't look overseas; come to the Bronx. :hv20-smilie03:

What I don't understand is why B&H doesn't show in the list of dealers for the HV20 when you search for a dealer in NYC. Our ministry has purchased pro equipment from them in the past and I know they are a Canon authorized dealer.

Please do your research/homework before you buy. I prefer to pay a few more dollars and have peace of mind...

Marc

[pardus]

Stumbled across this forum this morning just before I was heading down to the usa border to pick up my hv20. That was a nervous trip, i had read mostly positive reviews on ecost, definately not the bad ones in some of the earlier posts.

$733 plus $10 shipping. Also have a $24 mail-in rebate. It was delivered within 5 days by DHL. Packed well in box with airbags, the canon box seemed in perfect condition with no refurbished stickers. everything inside was sealed and neatly packed. so far so good.

on a side note, wondering if anyone had any feedback on: I bought an extra 1600mAh no-name battery for $4.99. figured for $5 i couldnt go too wrong, how do these cheap china made batteries compare? also got a Titanium .42x super wide angle lens for $36

[Diverdown]

The super cheap batteries are scary. I recall reading on one of the posts that someone had it explode on them and catch fire. Very scary stuff. There are many posts talking about batteries and quality.

I purchased from Blue Nook as per recommendations from this site.

As for the lens, cheap glass in front of your camera can ruin great footage. I went with Canon because the optics are great.

There are comparisons of many lenses on the site, the search button is your friend or do what I did and troll the site and learn what you can. There is a ton of great info to be found :hv20-smilie03: