What do you think the timeframe should be?

[HueyNRolf]

How many weeks do we need the timeframe to be to attract more entries?

[Lawrence189]

I think it makes sense to have two different competitions. One that's due at the end of every month, and one that's due every 2 weeks [like it is now].
The people who don't think two weeks is enough will work on the end of the month competition, while the 2 weekers can do both. It's more work, but the only solution I can think of atm.

[Daniel Rutter]

Having two, will take a lot of competitors from the first comp (2 weeks) to the other one. And then, Antmans contest would be dead. I say, leave it as Antman designed it... I know his reasons for the two week limit, I'd prefer it to stay as is.

[Lawrence189]

That's true.
What about instead of the winner getting to choose the next theme, we have an already made schedule for what theme's will be next.
Knowing what the next theme is will give more time to think and work on a script, by the time the new theme is posted we've already wasted a day, then writing the script which can take 1-3 days. It's just more convenient.

[HueyNRolf]

I'd prefer it to stay as is.

Well I wouldn't. Apart from the dismal management (which I'm working on now). I'd like to see more participation.

[HueyNRolf]

I think it makes sense to have two different competitions

Ah for heaven sakes, let's learn how to run one contest first.

[Playing]

Here is a suggestion that could please everyone:

Tomorrow we announce 2 themes:
One to end 2 weeks from now (chosen by the runner-up) and one 4 weeks (chosen by the winner).

After the first 2 weeks every theme would run for 4 weeks overlapping with the previous one.
There would be no changes to the organization or judging. The only difference would be that themes are announced 4 weeks before the deadline. Those with lots of time can work on 2 themes at the same time and submit a contribution every 2 weeks. Others could take 4 weeks.

Edit: Lawrence our suggestions overlapped. They are about the same.

The problem with a deadline only every 4 weeks is that we are losing momentum. People will get bored. That is why my suggestion would still generate interest every 2 weeks but give us the 4 weeks a lot of us need.

[Playing]

...then writing the script which can take 1-3 days.
To come up with an idea that requires the budget of the Titanic and the help of Central Casting is easy. But to think of a creative story with a more realistic budget (say: zero) and a cast that can be fed by one pizza, takes me longer than 3 days.

[Lawrence189]

Well that's exactly my point, we're rushing these ideas because we get a surprise theme that must be thought up, organized, shot, and edited in 2 week. To make this smoother, let's remove the surprise theme and have a notice of upcoming themes so we can have much more time to think up a good story.

[paperkut12]

I thought I remember reading someone's suggestion of the winner of the contest would get something like a sticky thread in the footage section that gets their winning short there for the 2 weeks the new contest is running, and when that one is over it just rotates to the new winner; If this is all possible. Just think it would be a good little thing that could possibly get a little interest from people to get their stuff seen; anything to help.

As for the time frame, I'm not sure so I haven't voted.

[HueyNRolf]

I'm liking the idea of a three-week timeframe. It seems to me that there have been many instances where people timed out. Remember the premise of this thread is how to attract more entries.

Of course, we're hours away from the current deadline, so I'll most likely, keep the two-week timeframe for the next. If I'm still flying the plane on the one after, expect some changes.

Lawrence, your suggestion of a scheduled theme calendar is worth thinking about... let me give it some thought.

Please keep the suggestions coming.

[Shigeta]

To me at least, it seems that everyone is "starting script or shooting" one week before the deadline, and in most cases is due to simple procrastination. If we extend it by another week, it will just cause more people to push it off. Some people will take advantage of it, but I think 80% of the current stuff could be started if they begin on Monday night.

[HueyNRolf]

I thought I remember reading someone's suggestion of the winner of the contest would get something like a sticky thread in the footage section that gets their winning short there for the 2 weeks the new contest is running, and when that one is over it just rotates to the new winner; If this is all possible. Just think it would be a good little thing that could possibly get a little interest from people to get their stuff seen; anything to help.

As for the time frame, I'm not sure so I haven't voted.

That's more like it.
YES, promotion is good way to increase participation.
A sticky in the footage forum is beyond my permissions and the forum owner has said he's given up on the contest. But there's no reason why the winning entry couldn't be posted there as a regular thread each time... It's on my 'to do' list. Thanks for the suggestion!

[HueyNRolf]

To me at least, it seems that everyone is "starting script or shooting" one week before the deadline, and in most cases is due to simple procrastination. If we extend it by another week, it will just cause more people to push it off. Some people will take advantage of it, but I think 80% of the current stuff could be started if they begin on Monday night.

You may well be right, Shigs. But these things need testing.

[Palmer S.]

I say three weeks is the way to go; that way there's one solid week for idea generating and script writing, one solid week for casting and filming, and one solid week for editing. I know it's unlikely that people will follow that schedule (it's just how I would handle it given that sort of time-frame), but it allows for a 'no excuse' sort of bottom line, so no one can really complain about not having enough time.

But on the other hand, I really agree with Shigs, being a professional procrastinator myself. :hv20-smilie84: People who can't bother themselves to get it in within the time frame probably won't get it in ever.

[Playing]

3 weeks seems to be a compromise. I can live with that.

[Timbit]

I voted two weeks, have the winner of the contest choose the theme (like now), BUT have that theme be released a week ahead as an "upcoming theme".

[drapeama]

I say 4 weeks, as i'm working full time on day & night shifts, trying to get people to help you while working doesn't really help...and last time i've done something, i did it all alone in an afternoon. Sure i've done it, but it was simple as hell. I'd like to have a bit more time to prepare everything.
Call it procrastination if you want...

[Playing]

BUT have that theme be released a week ahead as an "upcoming theme"
This is no different from what I suggest:

The winner chooses and publishes the theme of the “upcoming” contest, not the one starting now, but the next one. This is the same as saying release the theme ahead of time.

All we need now is a theme for the contest starting tomorrow and that is why I suggested: Let the runner-up choose it. This time only.

[Timbit]

This is no different from what I suggest:

The winner chooses and publishes the theme of the “upcoming” contest, not the one starting now, but the next one. This is the same as saying release the theme ahead of time.

All we need now is a theme for the contest starting tomorrow and that is why I suggested: Let the runner-up choose it. This time only.
*Smacks face* Duh to me! :D

[Playing]

*Smacks face* Duh to me! :D

Hi Tim, I meant this to be a confirmation of what you said.

[paperkut12]

But there's no reason why the winning entry couldn't be posted there as a regular thread each time... It's on my 'to do' list. Thanks for the suggestion!

Exactly, just a little more incentive for people to try the contest.

Also, I think if it went into a strictly 4 week cycle then that would be a totally different contest. I see a situation in which there's not many entries and then we have to wait another month to see the next new batch of shorts. Maybe I'm just totally wrong though and that increases the entries.

3 weeks I suppose I could live with and I've found that just another week could help with situations, either actors not being available, script time, etc. I guess there's no way of knowing how things turn out til it's tried.

[Palmer S.]

Call it procrastination if you want...

Hey Drapeama, never said there weren't exceptions to the rule. I know that there are some members on here who live hard working man lives, and I get why those individuals would desire a little more time. When I was talking about the procrastinators, I was referring more to people like myself. :)

[Vishus]

I voted three weeks, but would be ok if it stayed at two. I think four weeks is too long.

I LOVE the idea of the winner getting a sticky in the footage section. It's a a good (no-cost) prize. I like that currently the winner gets to choose the next theme as well. We do this for the creative exercise and for the fun of it, but extra incentive is always good!

For the ones I have participated in, I have thought of ideas and worked out a script during the first week, shot the first weekend, then worked on editing/effects during the second week and weekend. This time around I was saved by the deadline being Monday vs Sunday, but in general, I think 4 weeks just leads to procrastination for a lot of people.

[Bif]

To me at least, it seems that everyone is "starting script or shooting" one week before the deadline, and in most cases is due to simple procrastination. If we extend it by another week, it will just cause more people to push it off. Some people will take advantage of it, but I think 80% of the current stuff could be started if they begin on Monday night.



You may well be right, Shigs. But these things need testing.

Been tested. The DVChallenge over on dvinfo.net started out with a 10 day production time frame. Themes were not announced until the start date and "signup" to declare intent to compete PRIOR to starting date and announcement of the theme was required.

Then for the last few the production time frame was extended to a month. Participation did not increase. The upcoming challenge will begin Oct 14 with a deadline of Oct 24th (back to 10 days) and advance signup is required prior to the 14th. And there is an ABSOLUTE prohibition on the use of any copyrighted material without permission.

There is no "whining", no complaining, no constant attempts to change the rules...Just a contest venue that members on that website almost cannot wait for.

I don't care how much you change things here, how much you adjust rules, how much you try to adapt the schedule. You will not please everyone. Now if you want to adjust the production time frame to a month that'd be OK...

...BUT YOU DANG WELL BETTER LEAVE IT AT THAT and not be "whining" and "whinging" for a change after one or two contest runs. Here's your choices: You can have a contest with a fair but FIRM set of rules or you can have a "footage" section (Oh...You already have one of those).

As far as "bending" rules to allow an entry that otherwise would not be eligible, try to imagine how that would make all the folks in previous contests and this one feel.

Look at all the 48 hour challenges where the theme, genre, conditions and such are announced and 48 hours allowed for scripting, filming, editing, and submission, 2 weeks is going to look mighty good.

[Playing]

The upcoming challenge will begin Oct 14 with a deadline of Oct 24th (back to 10 days) and advance signup is required prior to the 14th.
Bif, this is a very different kettle of fish. If we had ONE contest starting in Oct participants could plan for it, even schedule time off work. Here we have a continuous challenge. This is good, but the reason I could participate, is because the work I do is seasonal and I have the free time right now.

[AJUK]

I voted for four weeks. There are valid arguments for all the timeframes, but I don't see how more time can do anything but add to the potential number of entries.
I know that I will definitely be entering if there is a four week comp, so straight away the entries are increased by 25% :)

[KingDucky]

2 weeks is more thna enough time. Even If you work 9-5 5 days a week, there's stills hours of time left to throw something together. Dedication people!:hv20-smilie77:

[paperkut12]

I believe any suggestions to the contest are good, whether it be from Bif, or anyone else, It's all very much needed for the growth and correction (if any) to the contest. Whether someone takes offense to one's words is none of my business, but if we all keep cool heads here it will only help in the discussion; the thread was made (I believe) to figure out what would be the best length for the contest and ignite counter-points for each choice.

Lets not run anyone out of the contest when all help is needed and Bif has contributed a lot. I'm sure things on both ends could have been better worded , but you know Sh!t just happens and just move on.

For me, I could either go for a 2 or 3 week contest, anything more than that then there might be drawbacks. Duel running contests, like a 2 week contest, and a monthly one might be too much to handle for the people running this and cause too many problems. I don't know...building on the 2 week schedule is probably just best. My mind is scrambled .

[Timbit]

Thinking it over, the two weeks probably is the best timeframe. An idea that just popped into my head when reading a few other threads is to have special themes as well for holidays such as Halloween, Christmas, Independence/Canada Day (or whatever national holiday there is in different countries), etc.

What do you guys think of that as a special themes?

[Palmer S.]

What do you guys think of that as a special themes?

Certainly a possibility...I say we take a vote! Huey, can we add another poll to the forum please?

[paperkut12]

Certainly a possibility...I say we take a vote! Huey, can we add another poll to the forum please?

No need to vote, there will already be one ;). (sorry my fondness of Halloween is trumping reality).

[Timbit]

I know I've probably severely overstated everything with this comment
I agree with everything you said, Palmer!

[HueyNRolf]

Back on topic. That's six votes each for two and three week timeframes.
I've left it at two weeks for now, but I'll keep in mind the interest for a three-week window.
Maybe the little promo in footage will shake a few more entries out. See how we go.

[HueyNRolf]

Update!
AJUK is going to manage the archive.
Thank you very much indeed.

[Lunchbox]

Relax boys! This should be a constructive discussion. Please no personal attack or name calling. I will delete some of those unrelated posts. If it continues, I will have to lock this thread and demote some Shorts mods. Thank you guys.

[Timbit]

Relax boys!
Thank you, Taky! :)

[Shigeta]

Guys,

Last warning

5) No personal attacks
This new rule implemented 26 November 2008: NO PERSONAL ATTACKS! We won't tolerate personal attacks any longer.
Don't call someone an imbecile, douchebag, arsehole, mother f'er, $hithead, or any variation of those.
Don't make direct references to some other person on here, by saying "XXX is blind", "XXX doesn't know what they he/she talking about",
"XXX is a liar.", or any variation of those.
NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!


This is clearly stated in the Forum Rules. Like Taky said, action will be taken if this behavior continues.

[Shigeta]

I think he's just been really busy working on his feature.


Not quite..

[Playing]

Come on guys, time to get our sense of humour to work.

One story my mother used to tell:
A market woman threw some horse dung at her enemy and hit her in the mouth.
The response was: “I ang not taking thish out until the polish get here.”

[Shigeta]

The response was: “I ang not taking thish out until the polish get here.”

English please? haha

[Palmer S.]

Okay Lunchbox, now that appear to have officially risen from beyond the grave, how's about we sort out the whole ribbon thing, and getting new ones to those who have earned them? I believe the list is (and please, correct me if I'm wrong, anyone)...

Playing-Needs 1 new ribbon.
Timbit-Needs 1 new ribbon.
Paperkut12-Needs 1 new ribbon.
Vishus-Needs 1 new ribbon.


Also, how's about we implement those NEW ribbons Vishus drew up some time back?

[Playing]

English please? haha
It is English :)

[KingDucky]

Not quite..
What happened to him?!

Where'd all the fighting posts go?

[HueyNRolf]

Darn, the delete button. I should've done that in the first place.
Thank you, Shigs and Taky. Lesson learnt.

Guys I'm going to nuke anything provocative, from now on, so don't bother typing anything that isn't intended as a constructive contribution.

EDIT:
Jokes are okay.

[HueyNRolf]

Okay Lunchbox, now that appear to have officially risen from beyond the grave, how's about we sort out the whole ribbon thing, and getting new ones to those who have earned them? I believe the list is (and please, correct me if I'm wrong, anyone)...

Playing-Needs 1 new ribbon.
Timbit-Needs 1 new ribbon.
Paperkut12-Needs 1 new ribbon.
Vishus-Needs 1 new ribbon.


Also, how's about we implement those NEW ribbons Vishus drew up some time back?

Palmer, Mal does the ribbons and I've PMd him twice about this. He stated a few weeks ago that he's given up on the contest, maybe that's why it hasn't been done.

[Palmer S.]

Palmer, Mal does the ribbons and I've PMd him twice about this. He stated a few weeks ago that he's given up on the contest, maybe that's why it hasn't been done.

Right, but I was under the impression that Lunchbox could do it as well. A couple of people were telling me that actually...but oh well. Maybe at the very least Mal, you could teach one of us how to do it? That way our winners aren't waiting on something they're never gonna get...

[Vishus]

if the ribbons are something that add to the workload for Mal who probably has an already full plate, then we can simply use the honour system and have the winners make the ribbons their avatars, and get rid of the extra ribbons above.

[Playing]

I was thinking the same, so Mal just needs to delete the current ones.
We could just add the correct numbers of stars to the Avatars.

[drapeama]

I was thinking the same, so Mal just needs to delete the current ones.
If people want to keep the current Avatars we could just add the correct numbers of stars.

That would be a good idea, and simplier. We could always make a custom pictures, or use the one Vishus suggested as avatar...

[KingDucky]

Jokes are okay.

THANK GOODNESS. I was scared for a minute. :)

[Timbit]

Right, but I was under the impression that Lunchbox could do it as well.
Mal said either he or Lunchbox can do it, since it's only the administrators who can.

Making the ribbons our avatar is an idea, though I'll miss my avatar... :p

[1]

I'm traveling a lot these days, so hardly any time to attend to issues.

Back in a bit.

Ribbons when I get the time.

Lunchbox took care of the "bad" posts. Thanks.

Cheers,
MAL

[Timbit]

Ribbons when I get the time.
Thanks Mal. :)

[Playing]

Making the ribbons our avatar is an idea, though I'll miss my avatar...
Just as a test I put 3 stars on an Avatar.

[drapeama]

Again...
Anyone except me think it would be a great idea to have a 4 weeks deadline?

[paperkut12]

Again...
Anyone except me think it would be a great idea to have a 4 weeks deadline?

Yes and no. It would be good because more people could have more time to shoot something and things would be more polished possibly, but it could also backfire and get little entries.

I wouldn't mind it though at least tested for 1 month month and see how it ends up..

[Timbit]

I really liked last time's three weeks, as I didn't come up with a workable idea until week two. As I speak, I've yet to get a solid idea for this contest... :(

[Vishus]

I think 3 weeks is the way to go.

[drapeama]

I really liked last time's three weeks, as I didn't come up with a workable idea until week two.
Yeah, if I had a complete 2 weeks (not working at the job & absolutely nothing else to do than this) that would be a different story, but most people have a job or school, which cuts a major part in the schedule. Just as example, my last entry: took me 3 days for color correcting, vfx and editing with the sounds (foley, dialog synchro from an external source..) Sure I can do something in 2 weeks, but it won't be a meticulous work, it will be more like a rough version, and I sincerely prefer not to submit such kind of work in that case.

I think 3 weeks is the way to go.
Might be the best compromise yeah. Bruce's the boss to change it...

[Bif]

Might be the best compromise yeah. Bruce's the boss to change it...

Only very temporarily. Daniel's just taking a bit of a break, he's getting the reins back after Contest #21 (next one). I've got a family situation developing that is likely going to prevent me from participating in much of anything for a bit.

Bruce Foreman

[Daniel Rutter]

Just to make clear to everyone... I'm taking a break. I'm not leaving the contest. Bruce is simply holding the fort while I move into my new place and sort stuff out in my life. I will be back VERY soon. I generally stick to the three week rule as of now, as it works. But, would changing the timeframe change the amount of entries? I doubt it. Remember when Vishus did the Halloween contest? He gave everyone a month! There were only 3-4 entries on that one...

What we need, is more entrants. We need to get this contest OUT THERE. I want people to suggest ways to get this contest GOING.

[Bif]

Might be the best compromise yeah. Bruce's the boss to change it...

I just made a super quick reply to this earlier.

Daniel asked me to kind of "hold the fort" as he puts it. Didn't give me any real details.

It's not really "mine" to make any changes, I'm not the "boss" of anything, just kind of functioning as a contest co-ordinator. I literally had my "fill" of being a boss when I owned and operated Wallace Studios of San Angelo, and when I had a chance to get hired on in a photographers capacity as member of a "team" working for a boss I jumped at it.

I fully support Daniel's decision to go with 3 weeks because of the way things work. With one contest ending, judging being done, and getting the word out on the next one we sometimes "use up" a day or two out of the two weeks for the next one.

So for #20 starting late I set the deadline so entrants had the rest of that current weekend plus 2 full weeks including 2 full weekends to shoot, edit, and submit. Going to 3 weeks will pretty much give contestants 2 1/2 weeks or a day or so more to really work on it. So that may be why 3 weeks would be better for us. Let's do the current contest and give Daniel a chance to "sort stuff" (I hate moving almost as much as I hate mud) and step back in.

Bruce Foreman

P.S. I've already "taken" a suggestion on the topic for #21. It's going to be one everyone can have some fun with. Now do something for #20...