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threadhanger
2007 November 13th, 15:06
Well this is my 100th post and I finally got around to posting some footage.

http://www.vimeo.com/384666

I thought some might like seeing what can be done by shooting to the minisd card instead of tape.

Eugenia Loli-Queru
2007 November 13th, 16:30
Very nice. :)

jmalmsten
2007 November 13th, 17:48
ooooooh...

the flickering in the start, are they intentional?

But nontheless... it was weird, surreal and nice to look at:)

threadhanger
2007 November 13th, 18:07
The flickering is simply a byproduct of using window light. A few seconds is actually spread over several minutes. Thus the time lapse look. To do it right I need to block all the window light and use some good studio lighting.

I plan on eventualy making some puppets but haven't gotten around to it.

Rollinhand
2007 November 13th, 23:59
Vimeo is alittle slow for me right now so I'm only halvway tru but I'm loving it. It looks awesome! Very impressive!

Lucasberg
2007 November 14th, 00:06
I saw this earlier and thought it was you. So awesome.

Michael Davis
2007 November 14th, 00:12
Man, that's so cool. Looking forward to your puppets. :D

pelai
2007 November 14th, 11:34
That was just amazing!
I loved the texture and homogene color of the different materials and settings. I thought the change of light was kind of charming, made me think of film. Great composition as well!
:hv20-smilie72:

Lucasberg
2007 November 14th, 11:52
Did you use your close up lens on this stuff?

threadhanger
2007 November 14th, 13:14
Did you use your close up lens on this stuff?

As a matter of fact I did. Those shots should be pretty easy to spot.

It's easy to get the 35mm adapter look. As long as your subjects are small and you get up close. I thought macro filters and stop motion would go hand in hand. Thus I chose lots of antique things to animate. Things with texture and character. You should try it. Part of the reason I posted it was to give other people ideas to try something similar.

Here are some things I learned:

Take two shots per pose. Import into vegas media at 24 frames per second.

Baking soda looks just like snow.

Use a small tripod or the pod.

Try to shoot at night with a good indoor light source unless you want the flickering time lapse look.

Get some yellow/blue sticky tack stuff to temporarily hold things in place with.

Stopmotionanimation.com is a very good site with lots of tips.

Lucasberg
2007 November 14th, 13:40
Thanks Thread,

Sorry but I have a couple of questions.
(Take two shots per pose. Import into vegas media at 24 frames per second.)
Are you saying take 2 of the exact same shot for every move ?

(Get some yellow/blue sticky tack stuff to temporarily hold things in place with.)
What is this stuff , and do you have a brand name ?

How much do you move it per shot 1/8th or 1/4th of an inch?

Seriously your stopmotion is awesome. Please keep it coming. I have had an idea for one for a long time and I might now actually try it.

Lucasberg
2007 November 14th, 13:46
Dang , 1 more .

Which upclose filter are you useing brand & power?

threadhanger
2007 November 14th, 14:21
Here is the kind of putty I use to hold things in place. You can get it in yellow or blue. Walmart should have it.

http://www.funexpress.com/application?namespace=browse&origin=categoryDisplay.jsp&event=link.itemDetails&sku=70/3797&mode=Browsing&catDestinationJSP=/browse/categoryForward.jsp?categoryId=375955

My filters are inexpensive. Bower is the brand. They came in a pack of 3 with each having a different magnification. I got 'em off of Amazon.

How far you move each object in each shot is up to you. You'll just have to practice to see what looks best. Generally it's best to just barely move it. A car going across a scene would be moved further each frame to imply speed.

Shooting in two's is what I've started doing. If you are moving a puppet, for example..and move his hand, foot, and head because he's walking or something, then I snap the photo button twice (I usually keep the remote in my hand). If you just shoot one frame per pose (or however many little adjustments you make to your puppet/objects) then it will play back awfully fast as 24 frames per second. The only time I'd shoot in one's is if I was panning the camera to make it look smooth with each minute adjustment of the camera being moved.

Vegas has a area to import media (I think it's right below where you render at). Import still image. Choose the first still to be imported and click on "import still image sequence" at the bottom. Then it will give you a little screen to name the sequence and how many frames per second it will play it as. I recommend 24..or 23.976.

I'd start with the handbook section at stopmotionanimation.com...

http://www.stopmotionanimation.com/handbook/

Lucasberg
2007 November 15th, 09:35
Thanks for the info .

Frank
2007 November 15th, 10:08
If you just shoot one frame per pose (or however many little adjustments you make to your puppet/objects) then it will play back awfully fast as 24 frames per second. The only time I'd shoot in one's is if I was panning the camera to make it look smooth with each minute adjustment of the camera being moved.http://www.stopmotionanimation.com/handbook/

Couldn't you shoot one frame per move and then time-stretch it in post to twice the length to achieve the same result?

threadhanger
2007 November 15th, 10:36
Couldn't you shoot one frame per move and then time-stretch it in post to twice the length to achieve the same result?

You could but unless you change the frame rate to half of what you imported it in as (in other words change the frame rate to 12 when rendering) you will get ghosting. Eugenia has a way to get around that I think. It's not a big deal to just click the photo button twice. And there are times when you will want to click it once per pose for even smoother movements. Also if you are working in available light it's probably better to catch the actually light change in progress. For a while I was just copying all the pics in the folder and pasting them back in to make copies before importing them into Vegas. But now I just shoot in twos which is what most animators seem to do. The remote makes this easy to do. It's best to have to have enough light so you can keep your shutter speed atleast 1/30 or higher so you don't have to wait on it. But often I was shooting where there wasn't enough light and had to wait for a 1/15 shutter or even slower sometimes. Other times I underexposed some and cranked the shutter higher anyways.

Don't forgot you can also use people as stop motion objects. If you use fast continuous shooting on people moving you will get a Charlie Chaplan effect.

David Zeno
2007 November 18th, 23:11
Hi Threadhanger,

A really beautiful montage, and I really loved watching it.

Question for you, - so if I understand correctly, this whole movie was
shot from images only, is that correct ?

And taking 2 images for each pose, is what gives it a more "stutter-like" effect, something you want, vs a smoother animation, that's what I'm understanding anyway.

The filters you bought for the HV20, these just screw like a UV filter, that one would buy normally to protect their lens ? ( I bought a miniDV camcorder about 6 years ago, and the salesman suggest I get a UV filter, more to just protect my lens ) ( and I"m glad I did, as that filter has saved my lens from years of dust )

I asking about the filters, as I don't yet have the HV20, I just ordered mine, so will only be getting it next week ( hopefully )

I am actually surprised at the quality of the movie, because from what I have read the digital "camera" of the HV20 is only a 3.1 megapixel, so I'm really impressed at the quality.

Thanks for answering any question you can for me.

Dave.

threadhanger
2007 November 19th, 11:55
Yes, it was shot onto the minisd card.

The filters just screw onto the camera. I bought mine in a set of 3 for about $20 I think. You just put 'em on the camera together. It's like adding reading glasses to your camera so you can focus really close to objects. And it gives you a very narrow depth of focus if you want that 35mm adapter look.

Just take two shots per pose unless you are doing something like panning the camera as objects move which would probably look smoother if shot on ones. Import into Vegas or your NLE at 24fps.

David Zeno
2007 November 19th, 12:06
Thank you for the information.

I am wondering about something I read somewhere on the net -- that the HV20 can record video to the SD card, is this true ? ....

I"m not sure when one would need this, but perhaps if they ran out of tape ?

I'm hoping that it is true, as this would be a nice "extra" the camcorder offers.

P.S. I am seeing many / most people are using Sony's Vega program, is there a reason most are using this ? is it better that Adobe Premiere CS ?

Thank you again. :hv20-smilie03:



Yes, it was shot onto the minisd card.

The filters just screw onto the camera. I bought mine in a set of 3 for about $20 I think. You just put 'em on the camera together. It's like adding reading glasses to your camera so you can focus really close to objects. And it gives you a very narrow depth of focus if you want that 35mm adapter look.

Just take two shots per pose unless you are doing something like panning the camera as objects move which would probably look smoother if shot on ones. Import into Vegas or your NLE at 24fps.

threadhanger
2007 November 19th, 16:27
The HV20 can't record to the card as far as I know.

Vegas has a lot of features for a consumer level 24p. More than I ever dreamed it would. It's affordable and good. Does take some learning though.

David Zeno
2007 November 19th, 16:37
Hi thradhanger,

I guess we shouldn't believe everything we hear on YouTube. I got excited there for a bit...

This video is actually a commercial for TigerDirect, and a guy goes through all the items on the camera, - he "seems" to know what he's talking about, and if we can't record directly to the HV20, then he's giving info about the camcorder that is not true.

He also indicates that CMOS is better than CCD, and says this prodly at the beginning of the video.

At about 3/4 the way into the video, he will talk about the SD card, and recording video directly to it... maybe I misunderstood what he said though.

Video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxLUIkhNtHU



The HV20 can't record to the card as far as I know.

Vegas has a lot of features for a consumer level 24p. More than I ever dreamed it would. It's affordable and good. Does take some learning though.

jmalmsten
2007 November 19th, 17:28
hmmm sitting here... listening to this guy on youtube you linked to...

"This is not simulated 24p, it ACTUALLY SLOWS DOWN THE TAPE..."... ehhh... say what? And I thought it pulled down to a 60i stream... ;)

He doesn't actually say that it's possible to shoot video on the card... just that you can take photos WHILE shooting video... ;)...

He also goes in and claims that you can change resolution on the video,,. "you see right here... that's 1920x1080, that's full HD..." Well... yeah... but you're pointing at the STILL-photo capture menu... not video... daowww...

Oh... allright... he does claim that it's possible to record video straight to the SD-card to quickly upload it to youtube by flicking the switch over to card-mode... Too bad he didn't actually try it since if I'm in card mode and press record I get a red text saying "you're in card mode" and nothing happens.

And the mere fact that he challanges Spielberg with an HD-camera. The one that alongside with Tarrantino has gone on record on numerous accounts that they will NEVER go HD if given a choice. Maybe he would have gotten more credibility if he took on Spielbergs HD-pal George Lucas... or Tarrantinos HD-amigo Rodriguez (isn't it funny how the two most famous no-sayers to HD are best of buddies with the most famous yes-sayers of HD?:p)...

All in All... well... he did make me smile whatwith his pumped up coked up attitude and all... but I would take that review with a GREAT deal of salt... I'm surprised that he even remembered what the cam's name was at times... He just have no clue about what he's talking about at times. He makes me remember this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL4hyATkQ74 , ok. not really but hes fun too;)

john robertson
2008 March 5th, 15:44
what filter or close up lens are you using?

Mattsushiba
2008 March 5th, 17:59
what filter or close up lens are you using?

see post #13.