PDA

View Full Version : Lowlight test without gain... or...



jmalmsten
2007 November 11th, 16:06
... can you light a scene for hv20 with only candles a la Barry Lyndon?

http://hv20.info/yopu/lowlight-test-nogain-fire-h264-720p.mov

As it turns out... yes... but you'll have to put the candles about 2-3 inches from their faces... but dude! it's so clean!;)

ok... maybe not that usefull... but I just wanted to try it out. To do low light test like the ones I saw done with the red-cam... just one guy lighting a cigarette in the blackness of the dark...

Also, I noticed some huge differences in image meaning when I tried to use both interior white balance and sunny outdoor balance... a candle being quite a "warm" light... And when it comes down to it I prefer the warmer tone... I would just like to test it out in a near future... to shoot night-scenes in warm tones instead of the cold ones we usually light for when lighting "day for night"...

As stated in the beginning... I shot it in progressive TV-mode on a PAL camera, giving 25p... f1.8, 1/50, 0dB gain... And on a personal note... I like it! In fact, I like it so much that I probably will NEVER shoot with the pesky Gain ever again!.

Also... the upshot of shooting these things like this is that... wow... 6 minutes of 720p footage crammed inside 180 megabyte of disk-space with h264 encoding gives almost no compression artefacts... to my eyes I cannot detect any...:D

Oh... and some screenshots too then for those that cannot view the video for whatever reason;)...

1. This is with the white balance set to the interior of my apartment when lit with lamps (the lamps where off during this shoot though...)
http://hv20.info/yopu/lowlight-test-nogain-fire-h264-720p-interior-WB.jpg

2. This is the sunny white balance...
http://hv20.info/yopu/lowlight-test-nogain-fire-h264-720p-sunny-WB.jpg

3. Well... this is just me breaking the fourth wall with sunny white balance;)
http://hv20.info/yopu/lowlight-test-nogain-fire-h264-720p-me.jpg

matches provided by Svenska Solstickan...;)

Rollinhand
2007 November 11th, 22:44
Very nice and VERY clean!
I didn't know you could get footage like this in TV mode, I always shoot in Cine when I film in lowlight.

Very nice!
Ta!

Philafront
2007 November 13th, 01:28
wow that looks really great

JamesRobertOsborne
2007 November 13th, 04:28
Dude, that's awesome footage to go along the awesome music! Where did you get the background music from? I love the music!

JamesRobertOsborne
2007 November 13th, 04:35
Gah, nevermind, I see it in the credits. I don't know why I can't just simply pay attention to the credits.

stanswx
2007 November 13th, 06:49
I never thought watching someone light candles would be so awesome. :) Spectacular!! I really need to get an HV20. :P

electro
2007 November 13th, 11:17
AWESOMELY clean!!!!]
more night shooting motivation for me

bmirman
2007 November 20th, 13:12
Are you shooting HDV standard? Or HDV PF24?

Hallvalla
2007 November 20th, 17:27
Are you shooting HDV standard? Or HDV PF24?

He's from PAL land, so 25P for everything...lucky bastards!

Jessica
2007 November 20th, 18:26
very very nice! :) I had no idea that lowlight videos could look this good with hv20. this is the best I've seen so far!.. I wonder what that would have looked like with the more "beginner-friendly" 60i mode.

snyggt gjort! ;)

jmalmsten
2007 November 20th, 20:25
very very nice! :) I had no idea that lowlight videos could look this good with hv20. this is the best I've seen so far!.. I wonder what that would have looked like with the more "beginner-friendly" 60i mode.

Yeah, isn't it silly how all of those things that are supposed to make it easier just makes it ugly? Why is it that every time someone makes a user-friendly robot it gets all redeyed and wants to take over the world and enslave the human race?

Although I would like to extend an expression of gratitude to the engineering-guy that put those red LED's in there in the first place in case it would go evil...;)



snyggt gjort! ;)

Man tackar man tackar, hälsningar från det mörka norrbotten;)

bmirman
2007 November 20th, 21:53
I am shooting NTSC 24p so my settings would be: 24p... f1.8, 1/48, 0dB gain. On the HV 20 it seems you can either shoot one or the other. If I go into AV mode and set f1.8 then go to TV and set 1/48 am I losing the AV setting? Haven't quite figured out how to get complete manual control of the camera being able to set both AV and TV settings to work together.

Any help would be appreciated

jmalmsten
2007 November 21st, 01:01
;)

look up the all-purpose photo-memory-card trick...

But basically... if you are in either AV or TV (someday in the future I'll understand why they have those names)... push in the joystick, go down to exp. (exposure lock) and push up. not in... up... then you can adjust the other exposure control... i.e. if you're in Shutter-mode you'll control the aperture and vice versa.

Now... the memory card comes in at this point. Because the cam doesn't have a display to show us what the camera's settings are we fool it by half-pressing the photo-button. If you want 0dB gain you'll just go into exp and lock it. Half-press the photo button then you take a look at what it spits out. If you're in widest angle, most zoomed out, and you're camera says it's at 1/50 f1.8 while TV-mode, you'll have to test it. If you go "-" a step and there still ain't a change in aperture, keep going, because you are gained my friend. When you get to f2.0 you can be certain that the gain has stopped. Just hit "+" to go back to a safe 1.8...

This works in cinemamode too I might add... but it has a tendency to lower shutter-speed before applying gain... As long as you know what setting you're after you have all the controls there to get it...

Sorry if my talk is on the strange scale... but I haven't slept at all during the night... I'm shooting a weird ass short flick today and I just came out of a Fight Club viewing...

...

... Slide!:D

bmirman
2007 November 21st, 12:00
Thanks for the help. I inserted a memory card and tried it but only get a red 'off'' icon when I half press the photo button. I am assuming I need to do this in the video mode not in photo mode. Is that corrrect? In photo mode there is no option for 1/48.

browndog
2007 November 22nd, 07:00
Thanks for the help. I inserted a memory card and tried it but only get a red 'off'' icon when I half press the photo button. I am assuming I need to do this in the video mode not in photo mode. Is that corrrect? In photo mode there is no option for 1/48.


Make sure you have it activated (photos) use the function button you will see it most likely set to off.
Wow, I actually learned something here :)

Jessica
2007 November 24th, 20:27
Hey Jmalmsten! I've found something, and its not good!

Ok so you have shutter and aperture locked the way you want, and with 0db gain. Thats great!... But if you then try zooming, the aperture will unlock itself and go darker! I have checked and doublechecked this! It is true.

Very anoying.. Makes me think twice before zoming in dark areas. :/

well.. you probably already knew about that anyway. :hv20-smilie32:

Norbert
2007 November 25th, 05:41
That's because the iris gets smaller when you zoom in. It's still as wide open as it can be, and it's still locked on wide open. If you've ever wondered why tele lenses with large apertures are so expensive... ja, nu vet du hur det ligger till. :)

Jessica
2007 November 25th, 10:33
That's because the iris gets smaller when you zoom in. It's still as wide open as it can be, and it's still locked on wide open. If you've ever wondered why tele lenses with large apertures are so expensive... ja, nu vet du hur det ligger till. :)
doh!.. Well, that explains it.. I feel very silly right now! I thought I had found a glitch/bug in the camera. :D Im such a newbie!

Ja nu vet jag! ;)

zcream
2008 May 12th, 04:31
Would love to get pictures of your setup i.e. lights, camera placement. I'd love to replicate what you did in this awesome video..

zcream
2008 May 12th, 04:40
Did you use a close-up macro lens, was it full zoom or full wide on the lens ? Very interesting look..

jmalmsten
2008 May 12th, 05:18
Would love to get pictures of your setup i.e. lights, camera placement. I'd love to replicate what you did in this awesome video..
Well... the setup would be quite boring since the full purpose of the test was "what you see is what you use". The lens was the standard built in one, I think there was an UV-filter but that doesn't do much more than protect the internal lens. The lights are all in view... So really it isn't any more than that. It's just the camera capturing the miniscule amount of light that the candles and fire are producing in view. It's just my camera on a tripod in a dark room.

Did you use a close-up macro lens, was it full zoom or full wide on the lens ? Very interesting look..
Again, no converter-lenses was used, if you go in as close as I did on these shots the internal macro-function kicks in and reduces the DOF when shooting wide angles with wide open aperture. It's funny how people seem to refuse to believe that I do my shots without any DOF-converters...;)

The focal width's used was some medium tele but mostly fully wide.

It's just a test to see what the camera could do in these situations when no gain is applied. The camera wouldn't do Barry Lyndon, but the results wasn't half bad it seems anyways...

Finns Jessica på www.voodoofilm.org förresten?

mattias
2008 May 12th, 05:47
voodoo is a nasty place. i hope for her sake that she's staying far far away.

/matt

Agent:M
2008 May 12th, 11:55
Excellent work!

zcream
2008 May 12th, 22:50
How do I set the macro mode in the HV20 ? I assume it kicks in at full telephoto and with some Macro option set in the menu..
Cheers

zcream
2008 May 14th, 09:27
I think I got this part as its not documented...I need
1. Auto Focus
2. Zoom in all the way (this is the part I am unsure of - is it full zoom in or full wide)
3. Use wide open aperture i.e. f1.8 but with no gain

The Auto Focus looks at the close object in the frame and switches internally to macro mode..
Does this make sense???



Again, no converter-lenses was used, if you go in as close as I did on these shots the internal macro-function kicks in and reduces the DOF when shooting wide angles with wide open aperture. It's funny how people seem to refuse to believe that I do my shots without any DOF-converters...;)

The focal width's used was some medium tele but mostly fully wide.

Rentakill
2008 May 14th, 10:29
Great footage, loved the effects from the matches. Its amazing what this little camera can do when people experiment with it in different settings.....:hv20-smilie70:

jmalmsten
2008 May 14th, 13:03
How do I set the macro mode in the HV20 ? I assume it kicks in at full telephoto and with some Macro option set in the menu..
Cheers
Maybe it's me using the wrong terminology... but I just put it at full wide and bring the objects near the lens. When in full wide I can let it focus on anything right up to the lens. And by general rules of DOF, the closer you get to the lens, the shallower the DOF. And the wider the lens, the closer I can go to the subject and keep focus. (Maybe I just mis-understood the term "macro")... Sometimes, when I shoot with auto focus and my .66x lens adapter I find it focusing on dust on the lens itself(!). blurring everything out. Those times I have to zoom in to bring the near-focus-limit farther than the lens and then it can readjust itself.

I think I got this part as its not documented...I need
1. Auto Focus
2. Zoom in all the way (this is the part I am unsure of - is it full zoom in or full wide)
3. Use wide open aperture i.e. f1.8 but with no gain

The Auto Focus looks at the close object in the frame and switches internally to macro mode..
Does this make sense???
1. No autofocus. Didn't use it in this test. Not more than as a help to sort of "push-auto"-focus to speed up shot-setups. It's manual locked down focus when recording though. Except one shot where I actually hold up the match to the camera and used the focus wheel to get it in focus (the camera shakes because I was a bit too heavy handed during this). There are other shots where I am looking at the lcd and moving the match back and forth to find the focus-point.
2. Mostly widest possible with the internal lens. Some are zoomed in a bit, but since I have to move away to keep focus, it's kindof counterproductive when wanting shallow dof at those distances and sizes.
3. yup.

Meechz
2008 May 22nd, 10:44
... if you are in either AV or TV (someday in the future I'll understand why they have those names)...



AV = Aperture Value
TV = Time Value

Am I possibly right? At least that's how all Canon SLR-cameras are marked :-)

jmalmsten
2008 May 22nd, 15:49
AV = Aperture Value
TV = Time Value

Am I possibly right? At least that's how all Canon SLR-cameras are marked :-)

well I think it's correct... but it's somewhat engrish since noone else uses those terms... I can understand Aperture Value somewhat, but Time-Value? I know, it's time... but why not Shutter-speed like everyone else? What stopped them from calling it FN (for "fraction number") or calling saying DF (for "diameter-factor" instead of AV) or something like that?

And why not have "priority" instead of "value"?...

I know I'm whining over an off-the-topic subject... but I still think it's unnecessarily weird to call them that... Oh, well... I have some major studying to do... and no time to do it in...

Teap
2008 May 22nd, 17:27
This is nice... what does the UV lense do exactly?

jmalmsten
2008 May 22nd, 18:49
This is nice... what does the UV lense do exactly?

the effect of the UV-filter is controverted... originally it was made to protect the film from excess UV light.. but many cameras has these built in and the effect is somewhere between non-existant and nothing at all... nowadays it's mostly a piece of glass to protect your main lens... and even that is kindof unnecessary on the HV20 since it has a built in automatic lens-cap.

It was included in the bundle when I bought the cam so I used it...

Nowadays though I almost always use my .66x WA converter and when the amount of light permits it, I have a 68mm polarizer to take control over reflections and improve skycolor...

drdimento
2008 December 10th, 22:10
Thinking for buying an HV30 and having an XHA1 how did you get rid of the grain in the blacks? Or, does the HV30 not have grain somehow when lighted like this?