Camcorder recommendations (Quick question)

[yarugua]

Hello guys, so I'm a newbie and currently looking for a camcorder.
Not looking for anything too extravagant, just looking to mainly record soccer games (from a tripod at a a bit of distance so I would be using some zoom) So I would be looking for a decent battery life, one that can last up to 2 hours preferably.
I want to edit and watch the video on my laptop, but also be able to watch the videos on a TV. I'd like something that's not too bulky but it's not really a deal breaker if it's a good camcorder. And finally, I don't need to have hard drive storage on the cam, so the mini SD cards (or something similar would do), or even the dv tape as long as it can be hooked up to my laptop.
I've been looking at some Canons, the FS10, and of course the HV20, since my budget is not too large. What do you guys think about these? And if not these which would you guys recommend?
Any help would be extremely helpful, thanks in advance!

[Lunchbox]

Yarugua, welcome to the forum. next time please use a more descriptive title if you want to get more help from other members.

[Bif]

Yarugua:

From what you describe you want to do, I would think the HV series (HV20, HV30, and HV40) might work well for you. Normally I recommend folks look seriously at tapeless (the HF series for example, maybe HF200) but you mention wanting to hook it up to a laptop and typically most of those on the market and affordable are dual core processors and may not be up to the editing demands of compressed HD from flash memory.

HDV will be less demanding of computer resources to edit.

You will need to order or purchase extra capacity batteries (and have at least one maybe two spares on hand) to do what you want with battery life of 2 hours. Most camcorders come with a battery that will be doing good to give you one hour and 45 minutes is more typical.

While you seem to be willing to stay with standard definition I do recommend taking the step to HD at this point. Failing to do so may somewhat "nail you down" into rapidly obsoleting technology.

I hope this info helps some.

[yarugua]

Thanks for the help guys. I'm leaning towards the hv20, as it seems reliable, fairly easy to work, and within my budget.
Also, I will be doing most of the filming outdoors, during the day --most likely in the sun-- do you guys recommend a sun shade for the lens? Or is that not really necessary?
And last, with the hv20, I'm seeing a 24p, a 1080i - 2.96 MP, as well as a 3MP1080i HD. How many options are out there in this model? What is the biggest difference between them and which do you guys recommend for the hv20?
Again, thanks for the help and look forward to reading some more recommendations.

[drapeama]

Deal of the month on B&H : HV40 for 649$ (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/597424-REG/Canon_3686B001_VIXIA_HV40_High_Definition.html), model I vouch for with native 24p, 30p and 60i framerate! :hv20-smilie77:
Under that budget, look for a used HV20 maybe.

[antman]

Yup, draps right, your better off going with an hv40. Most of the hv20's have been around for a few years and most likely have some wear and tear on the heads and tape mech. Also with the hv40, you do not need to remove pulldown. and that will save you an additional 130.00 (cineform ,pulldown removal software) You need cineform with the hv30 and 20. You can remove pulldown without cineform, but it's a huge pain in the ass, and what I consider to be a waste of time and effort. so yeah, go with the 40.

[debuys]

Are you recording Soccer games for the purpose of "game film" or eventual editing?

When you say 2 hours of battery life do you mean from start to finish or are you allowing for a battery change? Are you thinking of recording directly to a laptop?

I'll be offering up an HV20 with about 9 months of factory warranty left and only about 5 hours on the heads on Thursday probably. The HV40 at the sub $650 price is a phenomenal deal.

[yarugua]

What is a pull down? Sorry, I'm new to all this.
I'm recording for game film, I'm almost always on my laptop so it's most convenient for me to be able to hook up the camcorder to it and be able to watch from there. I'll be doing little editing, but some editing nonetheless. Mostly for individual player clips or goals compilations and so on, this is where I suppose the pull down comes in right?
Two hours of battery life in one filming session, games run about 90 minutes but sometimes longer. And I would not be looking to record directly onto the laptop.
The hv40 looks great, but for at over $600 it's out of my budget, I'm looking at some used hv20's currently.

[drapeama]

What is a pull down?
Read it here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#3:2_pulldown).
I still say you'd be better with the HV40...save some more cash before buying a used one. Paide mine 1135$ instead of 949$ for the HV30 (yeah i know it's more expensive in canada...) and i don't regret it! You don't have to mess with the pulldown process in poste...you just drag your clip and it's already 24p.
my advice.

[debuys]

In short pulldown is a sneaky way to make a 60i format record 24p footage. 24p has a cool, film-like look that some folks think is more awesome than a Thundercats marathon. Another way to look at it is it's of the differences between an "NFL films presents" clip vs. a Sportscenter replay. I mean that for the full speed clips. Slow motion is a different deal.

With a firewire connection you can record real time to your hard drive. With a flash or hard drive camcorder you can instantly access any part of the recording. A downside to flash memory recorders is the 12min limit at highest quality settings. Nothing is lost, but if the play you want to work with spans 2 clips you will have to stitch them back together.

IMO if you are OK with used an HV40 is not the best use of your funds despite being a good deal. I wouldn't advise spending more than $500 on an HDV consumer camcorder unless it's a pro/prosumer model or if I'm the one selling it.

[yarugua]

I'm starting to rethinking the whole Canon HV series thing. They seem a little complex and the used seem to come with a ton of problems. The HV40 looks really nice but I'm not really looking to spend over $350-$400 range if possible.
What do you guys think about the MiniDVs? Or the HDD? Would these be good with what I'm trying to do, I heard they are easy to work with computers and the MiniDvs work well with sporting?
I was looking at a Sony HandyCam HDR-SR7 High Definition HD 1080, any thoughts or recommendations on that one? It seems like it falls closer to my price range and could be promising.

[yarugua]

Also, how's the JVC Everio? would you guys recommend?

[debuys]

Most folks on this forum are aspireing film makers, professional videographers or Vixia fans. Sony, JVC, Panasonic, and Canon will all give you roughly the same thing in the same price range. An HV20 is perfect for what you are doing. In August I started looking at HD Camcorders and concluded that Canon gave the most bang for the buck under $700 partly because there was such a fan base.

Decide on what medium you want, Tape or Flash Memory first then look at some brands. I personally thought tape was easier to use. When you make that decision then pick a brand.

I'm confused, what exactly is your budget?

[yarugua]

As far as the medium, I really don't have a preference, and frankly I don't like dealing with Tapes so Flash Memory would suffice. Within the Flash Memory, how are these Sony Handycams? Would they be suitable for game film? Which flash memory cams would you recommend for sports?
My budget is less than $400, $350 would be a perfect amount for me to spend. That's why I was looking into the used hv20, which I came across for about that price.

[debuys]

This might sound odd, but I'd look for a used Vixia HG20. It has a hard drive large enough to hold hours of high quality footage and a flash card slot. I didn't find anything in Sony that I liked for the price new or used, but I narrowed my focus to Canon and Panasonic early on. You might also consider the Sanyo (model number escapes me) that records 60 progressive fps making it easy to produce smooth slow motion shots.

[yarugua]

Thanks for the tips debuys you've been a huge help!
However, I think I'm back to the hv20, the more research I do, it keeps bringing back to this hv series being the best of it's kind out there. I also keep hearing bad things about the flash memory. That Vixio is really not too cheap, can't find a reasonably cheap one, not even used. I also don't really want to drop too much on those sony handycams and have it give me problems when I could just go for an hv20 which seems much more reliable.
Just to clear some things up with the hv20 before committing though. I know the dv tapes won't hold for longer than an hour or so, but it does include a flash memory which can record for longer without a problem though right? On average how long does a large battery for this camcorder hold? Taking out the editing side of film, would I have any problem simply watching things I record on the cam on my laptop? And finally, should I invest in a sun shade, taking into account filming would be done outdoors?
Again, thanks a ton for all the help.

PS: Debuys, I reread one of your previous posts where you mentioned you would be offering a hv20, how much are you looking to get for it?

[Bif]

Just to clear some things up with the hv20 before committing though. I know the dv tapes won't hold for longer than an hour or so, but it does include a flash memory which can record for longer without a problem though right?


The flash memory is strictly for still images and will not record video. The tape will hold one hour at standard speed. Extended play, if available, is not recommended.



On average how long does a large battery for this camcorder hold?


The one that comes with the camera new is listed usually as a 1 hour battery. In actual practice it's really about 45 minutes, as things like focus, zoom etc. use some battery power. Extended capacity batteries are available.



Taking out the editing side of film, would I have any problem simply watching things I record on the cam on my laptop?


Probably not. However any fairly recent dual core processor laptop should have no trouble running something like the lower priced Sony Vegas and handling editing.



And finally, should I invest in a sun shade, taking into account filming would be done outdoors?


Definitely. Outdoors it's almost mandatory as any stray light on the lens can cause very objectionable flares and reflections. At night the field lighting can easily cause problems with no hood or shade.

And it's also advisable indoors.



PS: Debuys, I reread one of your previous posts where you mentioned you would be offering a hv20, how much are you looking to get for it?


His is about the only one I've seen mentioned that I would advise you consider, due to the low usage on it.

Good luck

[debuys]

Thanks for the tips debuys you've been a huge help!

I'm glad to. The folks here helped me decide on a camcorder and tried their best to steer me away from the mountain of accessories I have managed to pile up. I have been frugal with a couple of exceptions so I should be able to recover most of the money I spent.



However, I think I'm back to the hv20, the more research I do, it keeps bringing back to this hv series being the best of it's kind out there.

I came to the same conclusion, that the Canon Vixia series gave me the most for my dollar and the HV line was best for me in spite of it's lower resolution. (A huge topic, but the short version is tape based High Def Camcorders record a squished image that is then stretched out to make it full 1080 resolution). I did my own comparisons between 3 Vixia camcorders here:

YouTube- camera tests

I bought my HV20 based partly on that comparison. I get even better footage using tweaks I learned here. One advantage of the HV line is easier access to manual controls notably focus and a full sized shoe mount.



Just to clear some things up with the hv20 before committing though. I know the dv tapes won't hold for longer than an hour or so, but it does include a flash memory which can record for longer without a problem though right? On average how long does a large battery for this camcorder hold? Taking out the editing side of film, would I have any problem simply watching things I record on the cam on my laptop? And finally, should I invest in a sun shade, taking into account filming would be done outdoors?
Again, thanks a ton for all the help.

Some of these questions Biff answered so I'll just add to his riff. Yes, tapes last one hour. An oddity you are probably not aware of with flash camcorders is that they max out at 12min clips that require "gluing" back together later. A 32Gb card can record almost 3 hours of HV20 comparable quality video. But, if you record live via firewire (only available on an HDV camcorder) you can run indefinitely.

You can watch footage you recorded to tape on your laptop easily. Your computer will be the issue in that regard. Tape does need to be rewound, fast forwarded etc...

You will undoubtedly want a sunshade. You can get a hood that fits nicely or cut out the bottom of a flower pot. I'd recommend a wide angle add on lens too. If you get one you will absolutely need a shade.


PS: Debuys, I reread one of your previous posts where you mentioned you would be offering a hv20, how much are you looking to get for it?

I will be shooting for around $400. It's a bit on the high end for an HV20, but it is only 4 months old and includes factory warranty. I scuffed the top a bit and the lens threads show the use (they are fine, but just don't look new). I think I can get that much on Ebay, but wouldn't mind saving the hassle and have some other items to help complete a "kit" so there is room for negotiation. Send me a personal message and we can discuss it if like through regular email. I'll be listing a number of things here soon and probably waiting a week to put them on Ebay.

One question you may ask, "why am I selling it?" I am selling it because I bought an HV30 and think I could get more for the 20 due to the condition and factory warranty.