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View Full Version : Slo-Mo, Speed & Pan Results



kadzbiz
2007 October 30th, 02:01
Hey guys,

As a result of reading and learning a lot on here and on YouTube here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8q7ppz1PQU) is the final result of a piece I just filmed yesterday. The content was merely for editing purposes, ie. slo-mo's etc. I think it worked out reasonably well. I used TV mode and 500 shutter speed to catch the fast stuff. I used Sony Vegas 7 to edit.

Feel free to critique and comment. Thanks to everyone on here.

jaket
2007 October 30th, 03:37
Did you shoot in 24p or 60i?

kadzbiz
2007 October 30th, 06:15
Did you shoot in 24p or 60i?

60i (HDV) TV mode 500 shutter, and used a bit of color curves in vegas.

duketh
2007 October 30th, 06:35
Hahahahah this gets my thumbs up

Lucasberg
2007 October 30th, 11:09
Pretty good. Your slowmo looks reaaly good how slow did you go? If I slow it down past 50% my videos always look choppy/steppy.

Ian-T
2007 October 30th, 11:49
Funny stuff. I think you might get smoother motion with 1/100 shutter speed.

kadzbiz
2007 October 30th, 21:56
Pretty good. Your slowmo looks reaaly good how slow did you go? If I slow it down past 50% my videos always look choppy/steppy.

I went down to 30% at times.


Funny stuff. I think you might get smoother motion with 1/100 shutter speed.

I tried a quick shoot at 100, then the 500. I didn't notice any difference really.

Ian-T
2007 October 30th, 22:26
I went down to 30% at times.



I tried a quick shoot at 100, then the 500. I didn't notice any difference really.
The higher the shutter speed the more of a certain judder you get in the motion (Think Saving Private Ryan or Gladiator) but when you slow that down the motion judder is still there and it makes the video not necessarily as smooth as it could be. By just doubling (or getting close to doubling) the shutter speed you don't get that type of judder...and when slowed down the footage looks more smooth than if you used very high shutter speeds.

Try working between 1/100 and 1/250 shutter and see if you like it.

Edit: I know you said you can't see a difference so let me help you out here...for example..when you spin your stick around in the slow motion parts...look at the motion...it's almost like a ghosting effect...you can see multiple or doubled motions of the stick. That's that judder like effect I was mentioning...this is due to the shutter speeds being high (it's an excellent effect for nornal speed high action scenes...but when slowed down is not as smooth as "real" smooth slow-motion). If you shot that same scene with a little slower shutter (preferably 1/100 and maybe evn 1/250 in 60i) the slow motion scenes would look more smooth...because those "judders" will not be there.. The whole idea of increasing the shutter speed is to take away "normal" moytion blur...but as I mentioned...raising it too high will introduce a different type of motion artifact...we just need to find a happy medium. I hope this helps.

Ian-T
2007 October 30th, 22:45
@kadzbiz...If you are working on a 24p timeline then try these settings:
Film @ 1/100 shutter in 60i
Bring it into your timeline--edit(slow it down to where you want it)--then render out to a >>>60p<<< AVI (intermediate file)
Bring that file back into your current 24p project and then render out a final 24p file.

Note: If you are not working on a 24p timeline then just render out the footage in an internet friendly >>.60P<<<< file.

jmalmsten
2007 October 31st, 07:39
I'm just wondering... when taking interlaced footage and slowing it down to 50 percent, does the software automatically really USE the alternating lines as separate frames or do we just get the interlaced frames in a "frame-doubled" sense i.e. it's still "combed"?

I mean... is the process really always that automatic? or is there more steps to it to separate the fields to individual frames?

One work-through I've seen on maltaannons videotutorial site, http://maltaannon.com/tutorials/AfterEffects/SlowMotion/

OR will it do to just taking a interlaced video to 50 percent will do the trick in todays NLE's (Premiere Pro CS3, FCP, VEGAS)?

edit: So as to not misquote Maltaannon I decided to just link to his tutorial;)

kadzbiz
2007 October 31st, 08:12
The higher the shutter speed the more of a certain judder you get in the motion ......Try working between 1/100 and 1/250 shutter and see if you like it...... I hope this helps.

Thanks for that info.


@kadzbiz...If you are working on a 24p timeline then try these settings:
Film @ 1/100 shutter in 60i
Bring it into your timeline--edit(slow it down to where you want it)--then render out to a >>>60p<<< AVI (intermediate file)
Bring that file back into your current 24p project and then render out a final 24p file.

Note: If you are not working on a 24p timeline then just render out the footage in an internet friendly >>.60P<<<< file.

I hear what you're saying, just not quite sure what you mean by "working on a 24p timeline.


I'm just wondering... when taking interlaced footage and slowing it down to 50 percent, does the software automatically really USE the alternating lines as separate frames or do we just get the interlaced frames in a "frame-doubled" sense i.e. it's still "combed"?

I don't know about that myself.

Ian-T
2007 October 31st, 09:25
@kadzbiz...sorry...I just realized you are in PAL country. But I'm confused when you said 60i (which is NTSC). But...if you are using an NTSC cam and you film with 24p then typically what people are doing is removing pulldown from that 24p footage (with HV20pulldown.exe or Cineform etc.) and bringing that footage (the resulting AVI intermediate file) back into a 24p timeline in Vegas (or whatever NLE they are using) to edit with.

If the final project is going to be a 24p project (you can set the properties of Vegas to a 24p timeline) but you had some scenes where you want slow motion, then use the scenario from my previous post when filming your slow-mo scenes and render those scenes seperately to a 60p AVI file (as mentioned in the above post). Take that 60p file and bring it into your 24p timeline (you will have both 24p and 60p files ont the timeline) and render out to a 24p final project.

The reason for first rendering your intended slow motion scenes to 60 progressive frames is to sort of mimick overcranking....60 frames per second gives you more information to work with than 24 frames per second. When you slow footage that has more information down then the motion would be more fluid than footage that has less information (no motion blur because of the doubled shutter speed you filmed with...and smoother cadence because of more frames to work with).

Ian-T
2007 October 31st, 09:52
I'm just wondering... when taking interlaced footage and slowing it down to 50 percent, does the software automatically really USE the alternating lines as separate frames or do we just get the interlaced frames in a "frame-doubled" sense i.e. it's still "combed"?

....No it actually does turn the 60 fields per second into 60 frames per second but with only half the verticle resolution.

Of course a cam like the HVX has real overcranking but there are many examples on the Web that shows a processed slow-mo with the HV20 vs the HVX and they are definately indistinguishable

Edit: Don't be too alarmed about the "half-verticle resolution" when doubling your 60i fields to 60p. According to some folks the resulting video of the HVX200 when overcrancked for slow motion is no better or sometimes even poorer than standard HDV.

kadzbiz
2007 October 31st, 20:16
Thanks Ian. Yeah, I bought an NTSC version and saved $700 AUD. Okay, I filmed in 60i. I understand now what you mean if I film in 24p. Cheers.

2Bdecided
2007 November 1st, 10:00
No it actually does turn the 60 fields per second into 60 frames per second but with only half the verticle resolution.If you use a good deinterlacer you can keep most or all of the resolution, except where motion is very complex.

See my examples...

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=2876

...if you know where to look, there are artefacts - but these can be minimised by using an even smarter (slower!) algorithm.

Cheers,
David.