Panasonic debuts HDC-HS700 and HDC-TM700 1080/60p camcorders

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

The first 60p AVCHD camcorders (Sanyo's are not AVCHD):
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/09/panasonic-debuts-hdc-hs700-and-hdc-tm700-1080p-camcorders/

If these cams:
1. Come with enough color controls (because Panny cams usually make people's faces look too video-y red, EVEN after you tweak the cam's colors).
2. Full manual control.
3. Enough bitrate for the 60p mode (obviously AVCHD's 60i at 24 mbps is not good enough for 60p).
4. Native 24p (no PF24 mode).
5. A least 1/3 sensor(s) size.

Then, they have a winner. As far as the declining market of camcorders go.

[chico_stang]

I'm afraid it is still 1/4 sensor. At least that's what I read at camcorderinfo.com

[racer-x]

The interesting thing is the 1.5 lens, the rest is unimpressive. I seriously doubt those tiny 1/4.1 sensors could possibly resolve enough resolution to produce 1080p @ 60 fps. I'm betting lot's of pixel interpolation / denoising going on through in camera s/w.

Same price as the HMC-40. I'd rather go with the HMC-40, but we'll see when a full review come up.

[chico_stang]

It can't be the same price... it should be a few hundreds less. I mean, to me it doesn't make sense to have both camcorders at the same price... and I doubt they are raising the price on the HMC40 so I think either that is an estimated price or it'll drop pretty soon.

[racer-x]

From Euginia's link:
Price for Panasonic HDC-HS700:


Update: Amazon UK has revealed a price and expected arrival date for the HS700. Priced at £1,199 ($1,873), the camcorder is listed as scheduled for a March 1 release, so there won't be much of a wait for the wealthy among us [Thanks, Ron].

B&H price for HMC-40 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist.jsp&sku=625605&q=1&Q=add&is=REG&A=cart) = $1849 USD

[chico_stang]

That is expensive considering the HMC40 is a better cam... weird.

[racer-x]

naaah, they'll sucker in the fools that believe the 1080 / 60p was produced from native resolution....................

[Paulo Teixeira]

The prices in the UK are usually significantly more money than the prices in the US. Expect the US price to be much less than that.

[HDME]

The prices in the UK are usually significantly more money than the prices in the US. Expect the US price to be much less than that.

True. Another example would be the Panasonic HMC41 (40 in US 'money'!).
Over here in the UK, it would go for about £2100 without the XLR adapter
and that works out at nearly $3300 according to an online currency
converter (11th Feb 2010).

Why do I get the feeling were being ripped off?

[Paulo Teixeira]

Looking at the Amazon UK price of the internal flash version, the TM700, it's £999.99 so when you convert that to US dollars, it's $1,569.54, which indicates that the US price will probably be around $1,100 to $1,200 at the most.

[Paulo Teixeira]

B&H has set the price of the TM700 to $1,000.

[Paulo Teixeira]

In this thread, you'll find 9 native 1920x1080 60p files for you to download. On a Windows computer, I recommend Nero 9 for Playback or believe it or not, you can also play the files on a PS3.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1226780

[dcloud]

1. Come with enough color controls (because Panny cams usually make people's faces look too video-y red, EVEN after you tweak the cam's colors).
2. Full manual control.
3. Enough bitrate for the 60p mode (obviously AVCHD's 60i at 24 mbps is not good enough for 60p).
4. Native 24p (no PF24 mode).
5. A least 1/3 sensor(s) size.

No to 1, 4 & 5 :hv20-smilie81:

[DigitalBard]

Too bad... I would have sold my HF11 and bought this...

[Sean Michael]

Regarding the price differences between the UK and USA, my immediate guess would be taxation. I suspect the VAT (value added tax) is rolled up into the final cost to the consumer. You may indeed be getting ripped off, but it's probably by your government. We don't have the VAT in the States (not YET, anyway :hv20-smilie15:)..

I've ordered a TM700 directly from Panasonic. Who knows, we may have finally found a worthy successor to the HV20/30/40 line.

Are there flaws? Sure. It's a 1/4.1-inch chip consumer camera. But with three sensors, full manual controls with a manual control ring, progressive frame rates, and a f1.5 35mm wide angle lens, there appear to be a lot of upsides too. I've been wanting a highly portable yet high quality camcorder for a long time, and this holds a lot of promise. I should have mine this week.

[Paulo Teixeira]

Hopefully you'll be able to put some native 1080 60p files up on Vimeo.

I've been promised that I'll get the chance to borrow one and I'm hoping I get it soon because their are a lot of experiments that I want to try.

[Sean Michael]

If UPS does its job, I should have my camera on Wednesday. But it will probably be Thursday or Friday before I have a chance to spend any quality time with it. Stay tuned...

[Sean Michael]

Camcorderinfo.com has posted a review of the camera:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-TM700-Camcorder-Review-37681.htm

They rave about the 60P mode and say the camera "has blown everything else out of the water in terms of video performance." Factor in the manual control ring and native wide angle, and this camera is looking like a winner.

I'll withhold judgment until seeing the results in person, but it certainly sounds promising.

[jet]

Well it seems there is no point being biased this machine puts sony and canons in the shade.No good for me at present though.

[Sean Michael]

I've had my TM700 for less than a week, and so far I am really loving this camera.

I'm a hardcore HV20 fan, and have shot loads of footage on my HV20s. I've also refrained from buying one of the "new generation" of consumer cameras because they all IMHO seemed to be lacking in some important respect vis-a-vis the HV20 series. But with the TM700, for me the torch has finally been passed.

The TM700 offers superior:
manual control (control ring)
size & weight (1 pound with battery)
lens (fast f1.5 and 35mm wide)
resolution (it knocked the top off the Camcorderinfo.com charts, with 60P vertical resolution in EX1 territory)
overall image quality

It has a number of nice features like facial recognition (automatically exposing for certain faces), outstanding lowlight performance with minimal noise and strong color reproduction, an almost "instant on" technology (you can power on the camera simply by opening the LCD screen or extended the viewfinder), stellar OIS performance, plenty of menu customization options, all the benefits of tapeless workflow...and I could go on.

I have very few complaints with the camera. I'd prefer fullsize HDMI to mini HDMI. I still don't like AVCHD. A few more frame rates, like native 24P and 30P would be welcome. Customizable function buttons (ie. for record review or white balance) would rock. But some of these requests no doubt push what's reasonable to expect from a consumer cam.

I'm not saying the TM700's perfect because there is no perfect camera. But it is a powerhouse consumer offering, and its 60P mode breaks new ground. One gets the feeling that the video cam division of Panasonic decided to strike back against the recent wave of video DSLRs and put a little excitement back into its model lineup. :hv20-smilie70:

[jabloomf1230]

Pair this up with a Canon 2Ti DSLR and you have a very interesting kit. The problem with TM700 1080/60p mode is how to edit its proprietary MPEG4 files.

[racer-x]

I imported a downloaded sample source 60p clip into Vegas and had no trouble working with it.

[Lucasberg]

I too have downloaded a few clips and they work pefectly in Vegas8 pro. I think the .mts works better then the .mp4 files.

I was thinking of getting a Z-finder and a fader ND for my 7D bt I think I will take that money and sell my VPC-FH1 and get this cam. I have been missing a viewfinder.

I wish the US would get the SD card only version HDC-SD700.

[John Rambo]

they are certainly great camcorders

but i read a lot about them and did not find anything about manual control of gain and iris does it have such controls?

[Bob Sanders]

Do not get the TM/HS700 cams

A lot of people are complaining of a jittery picture when the cam is held at a certain angle:


http://vimeo.com/12672873

This problem has now been confirmed by Panasonic:


Panasonic service center called me this evening and they told me that they have tested with some of TM-700 and HS-700. All of them are shaking! However, there is no information about this in the support knowledge base yet so it is beyond their responsibility. They've just sent this case up to Panasonic HQ in Japan. The issue was sent on Friday evening so I have to wait till next week to get the next response.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18856889#post18856889

[Erikk3]

Do not get the TM/HS700 cams

A lot of people are complaining of a jittery picture when the cam is held at a certain angle:

Disappointed Panasonic TM-700 Test -- Shaking when face downward on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/12672873)

This problem has now been confirmed by Panasonic:



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18856889#post18856889

NOOOOOO. i was so stoked to get one... how could this happen?

[Sean Michael]

I've been using a TM700 for a few months now, alongside my Sony EX1. I haven't noticed anything unusual from an image stability standpoint. In fact, the OIS is really good.

Granted, I don't shoot too many videos with a static camera held at a 90-degree downward angle. :hv20-smilie84:

Overall I think the TM700 is a pretty brilliant camera. Outstanding resolution, nice features like time lapse and touchscreen focus. You can actually get a decent shallow depth of field.

My only significant complaint is the codec. I don't like AVCHD and the 28Mbps AVC 60P is a bear to edit. I would love for the camera to record 35 Mbps Sony MXF like my EX1 (I know this won't happen without adding a Nanoflash, but a guy can dream, right?). Sony Vegas handles the AVC 60P but sometimes there are issues. I have occasionally transcoded the AVC to MXF using Vegas; this works fine but obviously adds a time intensive step to the workflow.

Anyway, other than the codec, I haven't experienced any unusual negatives with the camera. It's done pretty much what I expected. This bug, if it exists, may be a big deal for some people but it hasn't affected me at all.

[Lucasberg]

I am loving this cam as well using Neoscene to convert to edit with.

[Daiky]

I guess, just for image quality, one does not upgrade to the HDC-TM700?
I watched this comparison video and it is not really blowing my socks off. (first shot is hv20, second is sd700)

http://www.vimeo.com/12746010

Yes, I'm annoyed by the tape-workflow, and the lack of an adjustment ring, and the fact I have to use a WA adapter whereas for the HDC-xx700 I might not need one...
but I was hoping to gain some image quality too...
or is this just a bad example - the user says he needs to find the right settings to tweak it a little further.

[producer]

I'm afraid it is still 1/4 sensor. At least that's what I read at camcorderinfo.com

Don't be affraid, it shoots video much better than Canon HV series!

[Daiky]

Don't be affraid, it shoots video much better than Canon HV series!

Can you provide a video to proof this?

Also, there seems to be an issue with fan noise... it's a shame :hv20-smilie119:
One of the reasons to upgrade from the HV20 would be to get rid of the horrible tape mechanism noise, but then you get this instead...

http://vimeo.com/11017620

[Bob Sanders]

Can you provide a video to proof this?

I don't think you can go by image quality alone any more... or at least if you do then you will probably almost always be happy with the HV cams. Image quality (in full light) can only get so good and I think the top line HDV cams along with todays better avchd cams have pretty much max-ed out the clarity you're ever going to get in full light. The real advancements in the next generation cams from the HV's is more along the lines of low light, stabilization, DOF, sound, media storage.... etc. In these respects the HV has been left behind in the dust.

[Paulo Teixeira]

I haven't posted in this forum in a while but here's a TM700 video that I found on Vimeo that looks pretty good.


http://vimeo.com/15495926