got this on ebay

[ozvena]

Should I be happy with this where this guy described the cam as with "very minor wear just from being used, but overall it is in excellent condition"

The cam has two dents on the plastic cover and few on some different cam corners. It has a lot of scratches on many surfaces even on the surface which is protected by LCD. Entire LCD surface is covered with micro scratches.

Not bad overall but this cam has been through a lot use or may be some light abuse. All works but I feel the guy is not playing fair play:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130166490220


His response:


Hi,

Please see my comments below:

--------------------------------------
Hi, I understand that you're concerned about the wear, but please understand that you bought a $250.00 used-camera for $150.00.

>> I quite don't understand your argument. This has nothing to do with the issue I am talking about.

I took close up pictures of the camera,

>> Would you please point out at the picture which shows dents and scratches on most if not every possible surface of the camera?

and to the best of my estimations, yes, it has minor wear on it. It's a large, cumbersome point-and-shoot that had regular use....it's going to have wear on it.

>> Would you please point out at the corresponding section in your auction where it states that the camera shows dents and scratches on most if not every possible surface of the camera?

The LCD screen on that camera has no protection over it so even when you wipe the dust and dirt / sand off of the screen with a microfiber cloth, it still leaves micro-scratches, which is definitely a flaw in the camera's design.

>> I can't assume in what condition you have used it and assume your cleaning techniques leaving scratches on 90% surface of LCD. Would you please point out at the corresponding section where you have described it?

Had I said in the auction the camera was in perfect shape and didn't supply any good pictures,

>> Please look at the pictures again. It shows none of the issues you described in this email.

then there would be call for concern about wear. But I did supply close up pictures, stated that the camera was used, and you had ample time to ask questions before hand, and/or ask for more pictures.

>> I was quite satisfied with a very minor wear. This wear is more than "very minor".

While the camera does show some physical wear, it is mechanically sound, and the auction, in my opinion, stated this to be such. =)

>> Yes, the cam is mechanically sound but was hit hard few times and you did not state it in the auction.
--------------------------------------

This guy got warranty, accessories, brand new cam for $250. None of that has been part of the deal. His arguments and lack of description makes me :((.

Please advise.

Thanks!

[ozvena]

I think she is over the edge now with her attitude. This is not how you talk....


--------------------------------------
Hi, I understand that you're concerned about the wear, but please
understand that you bought a $250.00 used-camera for $150.00.

>> I quite don't understand your argument. This has nothing to do with
the issue I am talking about.


** Sure it does. It's a used camera. USED. It says that right in the auction. It is 4 months old. USED. If you wanted a shiny new camera, then you should have bought a new one and spent the $250+. Moreso, you mean to tell me that if the auction would have stated "camera has some wear" as opposed to "very minor wear" that you wouldn't have bought the only used one on ebay, for 100.00 cheaper than what anyone else is selling it? With the same pictures? Give me a break. We're arguing over semantics, which is a complete and utter waste of my time, much like this email.

I took close up pictures of the camera,

>> Would you please point out at the picture which shows dents and
scratches on most if not every possible surface of the camera?


**Every surface of the camera? Dents? Are you kidding? Seriously. Look at the pictures. They are all there, minus the bottom. I'm not going to take pictures through a microscope to point out every hairline scratch that's barely, if not impossible to see with the naked eye. 99.99% of people would care less. This email is proving you fit in the .01% demographic.

and to the best of my estimations, yes, it has minor wear on it. It's a
large, cumbersome point-and-shoot that had regular use....it's going to
have wear on it.

>> Would you please point out at the corresponding section in your
auction where it states that the camera shows dents and scratches on
most if not every possible surface of the camera?



**I'm not going to repeat myself.

The LCD screen on that camera has no protection over it so even when you
wipe the dust and dirt / sand off of the screen with a microfiber cloth,
it still leaves micro-scratches, which is definitely a flaw in the
camera's design.

>> I can't assume in what condition you have used it and assume your
cleaning techniques leaving scratches on 90% surface of LCD. Would you
please point out at the corresponding section where you have described it?


**Once again, the only way you would have avoided this was to buy a new camera. And quit blowing it out of proportion. The LCD screen is not scratched. Hold it to the light and yes, you MIGHT see the small scratches you claim are there. I can only assume they are there because you're anal retentive enough to point them out. I never noticed. I also don't buy a used camera for it's perfect prettiness, I buy for functionality.

Had I said in the auction the camera was in perfect shape and didn't
supply any good pictures,

>> Please look at the pictures again. It shows none of the issues you
described in this email.


**I'm sorry? I have no issues... that was you. The pictures were there, and, as every auction is on ebay, mine was described as how I saw fit. What more could I have done? As with anything you spend money on, you should have addressed anything before purchasing. You are blowing small nicks and scratched on a used camera into "the whole camera got drug behind a car." It didn't. It was used like a good point and shoot camera should be.

then there would be call for concern about wear. But I did supply close
up pictures, stated that the camera was used, and you had ample time to
ask questions before hand, and/or ask for more pictures.

>> I was quite satisfied with a very minor wear. This wear is more than
"very minor".


**Then what, to you, is very minor? New? Seriously, do you judge your cameras solely off of exterior nicks and scratches? If it was in brand new out of the box condition, but didn't work, would that have been better for you?

While the camera does show some physical wear, it is mechanically sound,
and the auction, in my opinion, stated this to be such. =)

>> Yes, the cam is mechanically sound but was hit hard few times and
you did not state it in the auction.


**Bullcrap. Yes, the camera was used well in 4 months. That's what they're made for. Again, the pictures are all there. You had plenty of opportunity to ask questions ahead of time if you were looking for the perfect mint condition camera. You should have addressed any concerns you had before you spent money. We can go back and forth over this for years, but the fact remains you bought a used camera that is not in near the condition you are describing. If you wanted a new camera, you should have bought one. Judging by how you had the time to nitpick my email, I can only assume you micro-analyzed the camera in the same fashion. Did you use a magnifying glass too? My guess to all of this is you've found another camera you wished you bought and are now trying to nitpick a used camera that has, yes, minor wear. If you're that unsatisfied, go ahead and put it back on ebay.

Please don't advise.

Thank you.


--------------------------------------

Please advise.

Thanks!

[tcindie]

I think you got a nice camera at a good price. What's the issue here?

I had an old A60 that was put through hell.. dropped several times, the case was dented so badly that the seam didn't fit together tightly as it should have, yet it still took beautiful pictures.

You bought a used camera, and as such have to expect it to be used. I seriously doubt a seller with the record this one has is going to try to screw someone.

While I agree she (or is it he? I'm confused) could be a little more civil in the communication, it seems that you are nitpicking and expecting a brand-new quality item for a used price. I'd have to agree with what the seller said "If you're that unsatisfied, go ahead and put it back on ebay."

If it works, cool. If it DOESN'T work, you have a valid issue, and reason to leave negative feedback/etc.. but if it DOES work, be happy that you have a new (to you) camera for a better than brand new price.

To be perfectly honest with you, this reminds me of an ex-girlfriend of mine flipping out for having a tiny near-non-visible scratch on her cell phone. Electronic devices aren't built to LOOK brand new forever. when used, they show signs of use. The important thing is that they work. If you're like my ex (which it seems you are) I would suggest you never buy anything used again.

[ozvena]

I have sold and bought well over 200 items on ebay. When I bought something that was very lightly used in excellent condition that is what I got. The same when I sold such item.

This cam was dropped or something hit it several times to have dents on the metal body. LCD is 90% covered with micro scratches.

Not to mentioned that was dirty and needed some cleanup.

The cam works now....but we know what happens to things that are dropped. Some works fine for years some don't. Even new stuff brakes down (my HV20 2x).

I hate when people misrepresent items on ebay and then they send such emails.

Her ebay record? We know how feedback works. You leave negative you get negative. It is not worth to leave negative.

All it takes is to describe the item accurately or send some apology email and I did not ask for more, did I?

It was OK deal...expected little bit more considering that I did not get the fresh stuff with 2y warrantly, no accessories etc....

Put back on ebay? With her descriptions or with mine? That is $20 loss on the final value right there + ebay/paypal fees. LOL!

[tcindie]

So... you're just ranting to rant then?

Your issue is you are upset with how it was listed. You bought it.. there's really nothing can be done at this point. Bottom line, if you aren't buying new you can't expect anything. (Even then sometimes)

[ozvena]

Thanks for your support! That is exactly what I needed. :hv20-smilie77:

gezz....

[ozvena]

if you aren't buying new you can't expect anything.

If you have urge to sell on ebay, please don't. People just don't like surprises. Please!!!


Where are we heading? Not much empathy, courtesy, truthfulness left in this world...

[tcindie]

I have sold quite a bit on ebay, and I am always very forthcoming with my descriptions. I think you are overly critical and you likely won't be happy with most things used.

I could be entirely off base here, but from this thread that's the impression you give, and I'm still confused as to what the point of this thread was to begin with, it not just to complain

[CJDaniels]

I don't think you are overly critical, I have bought and sold on ebay. There are just a bunch of idiots out there who scam. Your description of the camera does not sound like normal wear. At this point without you questioning more prior to purchase as the the specifics, I think you are pretty much stuck. I would leave bad feedback.

[ozvena]

Thanks CJDaniels for your support! It feels comforting to read your lines.

I did not ask her for anything but her reaction paralyzed me. Again, all it took was to apologize for misrepresentation of the cam.

Interestingly she sent another email and I choose not to respond:

---------------
Since you are so dissatisfied with the camera, why don't you just ship it back to me in the exact same condition that I shipped to you in, with insurance and a tracking number. Then, supply me with your paypal email address if it differs from this one and I will then refund you $150 via paypal, minus the paypal transaction fee, minus any shipping/handling charges.

If you want to do this, fine, just let me know.

Thank you.
---------------

Yes, she had that underline in her email. While she is more cooperative still she seems upset and dictates her conditions.

I guess she is now upset over the negative FB we have exchanged? LOL!

She still did not get it because she would refund her S&H charges. Oh well...some people never get it and hopefully some will be more carefully with her.

I could have contacted paypal and on the end the cam would be shipped to her and I would get a full refund, not just $150.

That would buy me the same cam in better shape if I would invest my time again in ebaying.

----------------------------------
What about a little DIY saying:

Show me your bedroom and I will tell you how happy your ebay buyers are.

[zephyrnoid]

Ugh! E-Bay! After 8 years of it I know it , I use it and I hate it!
It's not what it was in 1998, so do take all descriptions with a grain of salt. With reference to this digital camera, if it works perfectly- forget the smudges and move on. If you collect digital cameras as was looking for a specific cosmetic condition, then you might have asked as much before winning. Just for the record- I'm a shooter and have put my 'bought on e-bay' NIB Nikon CP5K through 40,000 images- sparklingly sharp pics, the camera controls are all worn out and it shows 4 years of heavy use. I wouldn't dare trade it for the same camera in mint condition. Shoot the shots and move on I say !

[ozvena]

Cool, thanks for the info. The cam will be sold and replaced with a new one with all the accessories, most importantly: SW on CD, scratch free LCD with intact anti reflex coating, and 2y of warranty!. I am not going to take chances with this cam to be out of $163 I paid for it down the road.

Looking at her ebay items, condition of the cam, missing accessories, claim that is it only 4mo old (lol!!!) and bulky, LCD scratches due to bad product design!!!...I can tell you she did not pay $250 for it, she has no clue about cameras, she is lying.

Lesson learned...again....:hv20-smilie167:

[zephyrnoid]

I hear ya. After close to 510 sells and close to 60 buys, I know there are scums out there on the EvilBay with no scruples.That's why PayPal is so heavily used ( to put even more cash into E-bay stockholder's pockets) and to keep you covered:hv20-smilie81:

Cool, thanks for the info. The cam will be sold and replaced with a new one with all the accessories, most importantly: SW on CD, scratch free LCD with intact anti reflex coating, and 2y of warranty!. I am not going to take chances with this cam to be out of $163 I paid for it down the road.

Looking at her ebay items, condition of the cam, missing accessories, claim that is it only 4mo old (lol!!!) and bulky, LCD scratches due to bad product design!!!...I can tell you she did not pay $250 for it, she has no clue about cameras, she is lying.

Lesson learned...again....:hv20-smilie167:

[smg669]

Should I be happy with this where this guy described the cam as with "very minor wear just from being used, but overall it is in excellent condition"

Perhaps you should not be happy, but you certainly don't have any grounds for the type of complaining you did. If you look at the photos posted on the auction you can clearly see a bunch of dings and scratches. Unless you are claiming that there was a bunch of major damage done to the camera AFTER those pictures were taken, then you're the one in the wrong. They provided pictures. They even went so far as to mention in the item description that the camera was worn due to frequent use - something they certainly didn't have to mention. If you were concerned about the kind of cosmetic damage that wouldn't be visible in images of that resolution and size then you have no business buying items sight unseen on eBay.

[ozvena]

Do you know that this cam has metal body? Do you know what it takes to dent such metal body all over? You do not....

Can you see that the pictures are rather small and the cam is silver and dents are lost in resolution and reflection? I do not worry about those scratches you can see I worry about those dents and LCD damage you can't see. All this wear is beyond "very minor wear just from being used". It should say "wear from bouncing the cam around a lot with LCD facing out".

If you treat your equipment like trash that is fine with me but once you put it on ebay take good pictures or describe it well.

[tcindie]

In all fairness, the metal used on the bodies of this camera series doesn't take much abuse to bend it. It's very thin sheet metal type (probably cast aluminum).. it would take more than a poke by your finger, but not necessarily a big drop or anything. It's really not that rigid of a metal.

[smg669]

Do you know that this cam has metal body? Do you know what it takes to dent such metal body all over? You do not....


It's this kind of response that leads me to believe that you are the root of many of the problems in particular transaction. Who are you to presume what I do and don't know? You do not know me from Adam. For what it's worth, my mother owns one of these cameras and I owned a Powershot G3, which has a similar construction. But that is beside the point. The pictures on the auction page are certainly large enough to determine the general condition of the camera. As I said before, if you know that you are picky enough as to be concerned with the kind of damage that might be present but not visible in a photo of a given resolution, then you should not be bidding. Period. The seller did nothing wrong. Caveat emptor.

[IanSnow]

I have that exact same camera... it has been through hell with me. Military exercises, backpacking, and skiing (if you ever saw me ski, you'd understand). It still works perfectly. It is dissappointing that the seller did mislead you, however if it still works you just gotta take it and move on. The last time I bought something on eBay was a paintball marker that was described 'like new' and still doesn't work after two different attempts to refurbish by stores. It's a risky game...

[ozvena]

It's this kind of response that leads me to believe that you are the root of many of the problems in particular transaction. Who are you to presume what I do and don't know? You do not know me from Adam. For what it's worth, my mother owns one of these cameras and I owned a Powershot G3, which has a similar construction. But that is beside the point. The pictures on the auction page are certainly large enough to determine the general condition of the camera. As I said before, if you know that you are picky enough as to be concerned with the kind of damage that might be present but not visible in a photo of a given resolution, then you should not be bidding. Period. The seller did nothing wrong. Caveat emptor.

Geez!