Is there live HDV video out of the Firewire?

[doublejnyc]

Is there, by any chance, a live HDV video signal going out of the camera via firewire? While shooting? It's true there's a live video signal going out via HDMI, yes? The reason I ask is I'm wondering if I can use the HV20/30/40 with a DTE disk recorder like the Focus Ehancements FS-H200. It only uses firewire, not HDMI.

http://www.videonics.com/fsh200.asp
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/626892-REG/Focus_Enhancements_ASYF_1386_01LF_FS_H200_Portable _Compact_Flash.html#features

[Mars]

yes

you could have found out using the forum search and/or faq.
do you really want to use a 1000$ recording device with a 700$ camera, when there are tons flash card based camcorders out there in that combined price range!?

[antman]

yup, should work fine.

[doublejnyc]

Thanks for answering the question. I appreciate it. I did look in the faq and did a search and I didn't find it.

For some reason I really like the HV series. And it's kind of a budget thing. I can afford a used HV20/30 right now, and still like the idea of shooting on tape, but want the ability to have DTE function in the future.

[CycleWriter]

FYI, the signal from Firewire is not the same as the HDMI signal. The HDMI signal is an uncompressed 1920X1080 in full color space whereas the Firewire output will be in HDV. The HDMI signal is taken directly from the sensor whereas the Firewire signal is after it has gone through the Digic processor and matches what is put onto the tape. A minor consideration, but since you mentioned both I didn't want you wrongly assuming they are the same.

[Janke]

The HDMI signal is taken directly from the sensor whereas the Firewire signal is after it has gone through the Digic processor and matches what is put onto the tape.

If I've understood the documentation and the block diagrams correctly, the HDMI signal is not coming directly from the sensor, it has first gone gone through the DIGIC, then as 1440x1080 through the BASEBAND IC, and not until then to the HDMI IC to the connector....

If someone really knows that I'm wrong, please correct me!

(Someone is bound to ask about the documentation - well, a Google search found tech specs etc. - bootleg, for sure, so please don't ask me to reveal where I got it...)

[MalfunctioningHuman]

Since we are on the subject:

- Do you need to hit the Start (Record) button for the HDV signal to be transmitted through the Firewire port?
- If so, I guess you still need to record to tape simultaneously even as you capture through the Firewire port? Or is there a way to get around this?

[Khaver]

No, you don't have to hit record. The signal is there as soon as the camera is turned on. Make sure you have the auto turn off feature disabled.

[MalfunctioningHuman]

No, you don't have to hit record. The signal is there as soon as the camera is turned on. Make sure you have the auto turn off feature disabled.
Thank you for clarifying that. I like the sound of it. I wonder if it might be possible to capture direct to disk using a laptop and some software (I doubt Vegas can do that though) They do sell standalone DTE recorders, but the price is a little steep. Mounting a small laptop and using it for this purpose sounds intriguing.

Anybody knows if such a software to capture the live AV signal from firewire exists? From a technological point of view it sounds like it would be something very simple.

[iThinkergoiMac]

You should be able to do it the same way you normally capture. I know Final Cut Pro (not express) can do it. Hook up the cam via FW to your computer, fire up Vegas, turn on the camera to camera mode and see if it shows up in the capture window.

I'm going to be filming a play this weekend using this method (and capturing to tape at the same time).

[Khaver]

Anybody knows if such a software to capture the live AV signal from firewire exists? From a technological point of view it sounds like it would be something very simple.

HDVSplit (http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/HDVSplit.0.77StaticBeta.zip)

[debuys]

Thank you for clarifying that. I like the sound of it. I wonder if it might be possible to capture direct to disk using a laptop and some software (I doubt Vegas can do that though) They do sell standalone DTE recorders, but the price is a little steep. Mounting a small laptop and using it for this purpose sounds intriguing.

Anybody knows if such a software to capture the live AV signal from firewire exists? From a technological point of view it sounds like it would be something very simple.

I have been using an HV20 and Vegas to capture live HDV over firewire with no problems. This also includes doing it on an old, underpowered 5 year old XP HP laptop.

[CycleWriter]

If I've understood the documentation and the block diagrams correctly, the HDMI signal is not coming directly from the sensor, it has first gone gone through the DIGIC, then as 1440x1080 through the BASEBAND IC, and not until then to the HDMI IC to the connector....

If someone really knows that I'm wrong, please correct me!

(Someone is bound to ask about the documentation - well, a Google search found tech specs etc. - bootleg, for sure, so please don't ask me to reveal where I got it...)

Janke, my understanding is that the HDMI output is uncompressed and therefore in full 1920X1080 at 4:4:2 color space. That would indicate that it does not go through the Digic processor first and is also why using a Black Magic Intensity Card for HDMI capture is preferable for those wanting such a high quality video stream.

[MalfunctioningHuman]

You should be able to do it the same way you normally capture. I know Final Cut Pro (not express) can do it. Hook up the cam via FW to your computer, fire up Vegas, turn on the camera to camera mode and see if it shows up in the capture window.

I'm going to be filming a play this weekend using this method (and capturing to tape at the same time).
Thank you very much for confirming that. :hv20-smilie77: Why do you capture to disk and tape at the same time? Is it to make sure that you don't lose important data if the computer stops recording or if it bluescreens?

[MalfunctioningHuman]

I have been using an HV20 and Vegas to capture live HDV over firewire with no problems. This also includes doing it on an old, underpowered 5 year old XP HP laptop.
Thanks for confirming this too. I like putting old laptops to work. I am capturing my video using another 5 year old (a Thinkpad X24.) This is most likely the one I would use to record the firewire video signal in real time.

[MalfunctioningHuman]

HDVSplit (http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/HDVSplit.0.77StaticBeta.zip)
That sounds even sweeter (less resources needed.) I am investigating alternate solutions (dvgrab under Linux.) Then it's just a question of finding the smallest (and lightest) laptop available that will have enough horsepower (and battery time) to be an efficient DTE device. I've got a Thinkpad 240X that might work, but the battery is way too bulky. Maybe I need to find a way to acquire a second hand X40. :)

[CycleWriter]

Thank you very much for confirming that. :hv20-smilie77: Why do you capture to disk and tape at the same time? Is it to make sure that you don't lose important data if the computer stops recording or if it bluescreens?

Probably because the tape becomes an instant backup.

[iThinkergoiMac]

Probably because the tape becomes an instant backup.

Precisely. Also, then I don't have to spend over 4 hours capturing video... I'm capturing in PF24, so I have to inverse telecine the video after. Then, once I've made the final output, I can just delete the 100+ GB of video that I'll have on my drives and it'll still be there on tape. It's for the Shakespeare play that my school is putting on, so they'll be the ones with the tapes.

[iThinkergoiMac]

Thank you very much for confirming that. :hv20-smilie77: Why do you capture to disk and tape at the same time? Is it to make sure that you don't lose important data if the computer stops recording or if it bluescreens?

Also, I would point out that, as I mentioned, I'll be using FCP which runs on a Mac. No BSOD here!

[Mars]

...Mac. No BSOD here!

There should be some kind of extension or widget for macs to enable the awesome experience of a BSOD to mac users, instead of just freezing and playing dead :hv20-smilie81:

[CycleWriter]

I haven't seen a BSOD in years, but I was reminded of the feeling of terror it can cause when I first got Vista and experienced my first UAC blanking of the screen. What was MS thinking?:eek:

[Video Frank]

I haven't seen a BSOD in years ...

Like these? (http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/10/09/blue-screen-of-death-in-unexpected-locations/) The last one was in my home town.

[CycleWriter]

Like these? (http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/10/09/blue-screen-of-death-in-unexpected-locations/) The last one was in my home town.

Those pics gave me shivers.:hv20-smilie15:

[MalfunctioningHuman]

Also, I would point out that, as I mentioned, I'll be using FCP which runs on a Mac. No BSOD here!
Well, La-Te-Da! :hv20-smilie03:

Yup, that's why I am researching Linux alternatives, although I have to say that I don't remember either the last time my Windows XP SP2 bluescreened on me (although I don't use it that much.)

[MalfunctioningHuman]

Like these? (http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/10/09/blue-screen-of-death-in-unexpected-locations/) The last one was in my home town.
Yeah, I've seen an ATM bluescreen once. It was really scary. I thought they entrusted important data and transactions to reliable OS systems.

[cgbier]

dvgrab under Linux.
It works.
If you use Ubuntu Studio, it works even better because of the low/no latency kernel.
There was a Open Movie version specialized for HDV, but I cannot find the link anymore (my LINUX box is an HP but doesn't have the hp for HDV).

[MalfunctioningHuman]

It works.
If you use Ubuntu Studio, it works even better because of the low/no latency kernel.
There was a Open Movie version specialized for HDV, but I cannot find the link anymore (my LINUX box is an HP but doesn't have the hp for HDV).
Excellent, thank you. I wasn't aware of Ubuntu Studio having a lower latency kernel. I would certainly use a dedicated laptop for this, and Ubuntu Studio would probably be the way to go. Now it's just a question of finding the right hardware. it's not easy as it sounds. I thought about a very small laptop, and building a small platform/enclosure so that it can be mounted to a tripod directly, and then having another screw mount to mount the rest of the rig. It should be possible to remove the laptop from one of the open sides. Doing this and keeping the weight to a minimum (even a Thinkpad X40 weighs over 2.5 lbs) sounds like a challenge.