A modest proposal, by Tiny

[tiny]

Yes, this site is a forum that bares the name of the wonderful HV20. However in recent times it has clearly grown far beyond that, and now includes many active discussions on other cameras. The users who come here have many different camera's at this point, which in past film festivals have been segregated from competition due to the original intent of the site.

I propose that the next film festival be open to all camera's.

This, I believe, will help this forum further mature into a place where one can come for a general knowledge of film technique and the gear used to make films. Further, it will encourage a greater number of entrants, which is something that has been a disappointment in the past.

[jeshy]

i can see this being a good thing and a bad thing.

if it means more contests then yay!!
but i feel like the concept of having contests here that are exclusively shot on the HV20 etc. cameras is to see what people can do using the same tools. tht way we are encuraged to be more creative with other aspects of filmmaking instead of saving up for the nicest camera on the market.

that being said, i like your idea but i think if that happens it would be nice if there were still also contests that were exclusive to the HV series.

[koolpenguin89]

Great minds think alike. This is already a plan for the coming competition. The last contest was limited to Canon Vixia camcorders, this next one will be open to all cameras.

Dylan

[tiny]

Awesome!

Jeshy - About seeing what can be created using the same tool - I think the issue is that even within the HV segment, the setup range was so wide that it was hard to tell that everyone was using the same camera. So I think that point is kind of moot.

But I'm really excited about this because I think this future competition, along with other changes over time will help to keep this site relevant long after he HV line is dead.

[antman]

I agree, I think we have all seen, the hv30 in the right hands can yeild results as good as pretty much any thing out there,(within reason) So yeah, I like the idea of people using the dslr's and hmc's or what ever. This next festival should be awesome!!!

[CycleWriter]

I think it should still be limited to just Canon cameras, though.

[koolpenguin89]

I don't really see the point of that. Cameras vary as much in the Canon line as they do from brand to brand. Imo, the more entries the better. We have forums for every different camera type, why limit the contest to just one?

Dylan

[CycleWriter]

I just think that until there is a forum name change, the focus in here should be primarily on Canon cameras.

[cgbier]

Once in a while, I have to agree with CW ... though I'd a lot of nice footage to offer from a Sony A1 or Canon XL ... nothing to write home about from the HV though.

[ExpendableFilms]

I just think that until there is a forum name change, the focus in here should be primarily on Canon cameras.

I agree. There are plenty of "wide open" contests out there. Having a HVxx only contest is what makes this one unique. If you want to increase the number of entries then lose the theme concept.

Just my $.02usd

[koolpenguin89]

Well, let's see how it goes for this contest. If we get a huge number of entries shot with pro cameras, then I will revert the next contest back to Vixia cameras. Besides, I don't feel like rewriting the rules again.

Dylan

[CycleWriter]

Once in a while, I have to agree with CW.

I'm sure you won't be making a habit of it.:hv20-smilie87:

[tiny]

I just think that until there is a forum name change, the focus in here should be primarily on Canon cameras.

But how realistic is that?

The fact is that technology is a fast moving thing, and forums pop up to support that tech. Forums which survive end up changing with the times.

I was part of a game forum that centered on one specific game. As that game became less popular, and the main forum user base stopped playing the game, the purpose of the forums changed. Yet it retained its name. Now new users may have no idea where the forum name came from, but in an age where websites are called "Yahoo, Google, Bing, etc" - does it matter?

This is a good, active forum. The admins have made modest attempts to keep things relevant as the successors of the HV20 came out. However it looks like more and more discussion is directed away from the HV line in favor of new emerging technologies, for better or for worse.

The forum name doesn't need to change for the site to remain relevant. Rather the Admins just need to foster this change in other ways. Whether that means opening new sub forums up, or allowing competitions which are less exclusive than past ones.

I believe this next competition will be an interesting one. I also think it will boast the best turn out yet, if it allows any camera to enter - which is much needed since competitions recently have not attracted enough interest to even attract very many sponsors, which in turn, sadly, negatively effects the number of entrants.

[jordanService]

And I was about to shoot this on my new Genesis, oh well back to the HV20...

[cgbier]

Dylan, how do you define a pro camera?

[cgbier]

I'm sure you won't be making a habit of it.:hv20-smilie87:

LOL, that depends on your opinions ... you are not always wrong :hv20-smilie03:

[koolpenguin89]

Dylan, how do you define a pro camera?

I don't, the camera companies do. If the camera is sold by the company's pro division, its a pro camera.

Dylan

[CycleWriter]

I totally disagree, Tiny. Change for change's sake is not always for the best. As was said, there are lots of other forums and contests open to all. Having this, the HVXX.com forum, remain true to its identity and hold a contest with specific rules is not a resistance to change, but a recognition of where we came from. That makes us unique and respectful instead of just another camera forum or contest. The whole reason this forum was started was because the HV represented a bold paradigm shift in what was achievable with a consumer-level camera and this forum has been instrumental in helping HV users take this camera to its full potential. That we have contests to explore the works of fellow members using this namesake camera was the attraction for me. Now, this will be just another camera contest, one that will probably draw entries from people more concerned with exhibiting their films rather than showing off what this camera and the knowledge gained from this forum have wrought, which I thought was the whole purpose of these contests in the first place. An open contest will be of less import or interest to many of our dedicated members, IMHO.

[tiny]

the HVXX.com forum, remain true to its identity and hold a contest with specific rules is not a resistance to change, but a recognition of where we came from.

I agree, which is why I scoffed at your statement of holding strictly to HV camera use until there is a forum name change, which a forum name change is never going to happen, and would kill the forum and it's great past.

What I'm saying is that the HV line will at some future point (based off how little Canon has put into it in recent iterations, probably sooner than later) will come to an end. As better/affordable alternatives come around, people will not continue to use the HV lineup just for the sake of it. Anyone serious about filming (most of the forum userbase) will be moving along. I have seen in my time here many forum notables move from using an HV camera as their main camera, to a secondary unit, to obsolete. Yet these forum notables remain, because there is still a lot that these forums offer them, and they can offer the forums.

As time goes on, you will continue to see a general shift. More long time users will drop the HV lineup in the interest of something else. You will get new users pickup the HV lineup due to cost/being a good value.

You don't just send your now aging user base out to sea, to find a new forum, you instead continue to cater to them, along with continuing to cater to your new users. And again, the forum has done a pretty solid job of evolving in this way.

Perhaps at some future date, instead of an experimental film competition like this upcoming one, we will instead have two different divisions: HV Line, and Free for all setup. Or perhaps two entirely separate competitions running side by side. This is very common in sports, whether it be weight class, or stock division verses modified, etc.

But by refusing a huge part of your active userbase, past HV users, is to say you don't want us here, which I know is not your intentions. But not allowing us in on iconic parts of the forum experience is exactly that. Yeah there are other sites that we could submit films to, but we started here, and the forum is still relevant to us, so why not allow us to be part of some film competitions too?

I commend Koolpenguin89 for understanding this.

[cgbier]

What I'm saying is that the HV line will at some future point (based off how little Canon has put into it in recent iterations, probably sooner than later) will come to an end. As better/affordable alternatives come around, people will not continue to use the HV lineup just for the sake of it.
Why not? You think the HV's get thrown away just because a new hype comes to the market?
I doubt that the HV will be a classic somewhen, but I love to run a roll of film through my old Nikon FM2 some now and then...