What tripod to use with XH-A1 and DOF adapter

[heavyj]

Living in Japan makes things more difficult...when it really should be easier (Some brands no available, the top brands being over my budget)...and my limited understanding of tripods when it comes to video.

I have a XH-A1 with a Brevis35mm DOF adapter. What would be a good, steady tripod at a lower price. The reason I'm looking at lower prices is simple because I need something now, along with other things I need NOW and the tripod is the only area I can currently sacrifice on quality. I can get a better tripod later on and use this one with my HV20.

Anyone?

[rhervag]

i think you will regret getting a cheap tripod for such a heavy setup since you'd need the sturdiest you can get to stabilise things well. forget about rack focusing on lighter sticks.
a temp cheap deal i got was the EI-717 from weifeng found on ebay. it's a manfrotto ripoff design and works quite well supporting my handy35/hv20/primes/rode etc... despite being a bit front heavy. should be enough for your needs and not too expensive

[mrblofish]

i think you will regret getting a cheap tripod for such a heavy setup since you'd need the sturdiest you can get to stabilise things well. forget about rack focusing on lighter sticks.
a temp cheap deal i got was the EI-717 from weifeng found on ebay. it's a manfrotto ripoff design and works quite well supporting my handy35/hv20/primes/rode etc... despite being a bit front heavy. should be enough for your needs and not too expensive

rhervag...

I have the handy35/hv30/primes/rode set up as well(my hv30 is mounted upside down)...and am using the manf 501 head.... do you notice shimmy in your images when you pan and tilt...???

im thinking it might be the weight...or the upside down config....

your thoughts???

[rhervag]

rhervag...

I have the handy35/hv30/primes/rode set up as well(my hv30 is mounted upside down)...and am using the manf 501 head.... do you notice shimmy in your images when you pan and tilt...???

im thinking it might be the weight...or the upside down config....

your thoughts???

well i cant answer since i almost never do camera moves with this tripod in my timelapse and landscape series. the 717 is not a true fluid head but it feels smooth once the move is established after a little jump start. you may try the elastic trick as popularized by eugenia, works a treat !

i already fu**ed up many tries at rack focusing manually because having a not well balanced rig, it woobles as soon as i apply gentle pressure on the lens to rotate it. i would need a follow focus and some extended baseplate to bring the center of gravity at least 20cm back but i'm already broke with the 5D at the moment.
hmmm, that wasn't too helpfull i believe :/

[heavyj]

It's all helpful

Thing is that in Japan getting tripods for heavy equipment is not all that easy. The clerks get all confused when I try to explain why my rig is heavy, what the DOF adapter is etc and aren't 100 percent sure what to promote as the best for the least and they end up trying to sell me a 5000 dollar piece of equipment....I'd rather get a new camera for that...but that's just now.

I may simply have to bring in my rig and see what really works.

[rhervag]

yes testing is the best option.

about the EI717, the cheapest model i found for my handy35, same as this one :
http://www.amazon.com/CowboyStudio-EI-717-Video-Carbon-Tripod/dp/B001T7IR1M

if your complete rig is 5kg or less, you'd be fine. most important is balancing weight across the attachment so you don't have to lock the tilt too often.

[mrblofish]

well i cant answer since i almost never do camera moves with this tripod in my timelapse and landscape series. the 717 is not a true fluid head but it feels smooth once the move is established after a little jump start. you may try the elastic trick as popularized by eugenia, works a treat !

i already fu**ed up many tries at rack focusing manually because having a not well balanced rig, it woobles as soon as i apply gentle pressure on the lens to rotate it. i would need a follow focus and some extended baseplate to bring the center of gravity at least 20cm back but i'm already broke with the 5D at the moment.
hmmm, that wasn't too helpfull i believe :/


thanks... it does help....

[zephyrnoid]

My Miller DS10 Solo (aluminum alloy) kit is ideal.

[Jooshbro]

I got the Velbon 607 after reading highly positive reviews both here and on B&H. It's a great piece of equipment, and I haven't regretted getting it for a second. I saw this thread and wondered what its total weight capacity is, so I looked it up - apparently, it can handle up to 15 lbs of camcorder. It's also one of the cheaper options available, and honestly one of the best values you can get. Just my two cents.

Edited for link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=workaround.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=146249&is=REG

[rhervag]

My Miller DS10 Solo (aluminum alloy) kit is ideal.

i'd love a sachtler/vinten/miller too but i thought we were discussing options for lower price gear.

about the velbon : while i think it could handle such weight in a vertical arrangment, i would not trust such light tripod for a larger setup as discussed here : 35mm adapter + XH-A1 is more prone to imbalance and demands strong legs imho

[Jooshbro]

about the velbon : while i think it could handle such weight in a vertical arrangment, i would not trust such light tripod for a larger setup as discussed here : 35mm adapter + XH-A1 is more prone to imbalance and demands strong legs imho

Yeah, that's the one thing I wasn't sure about. I know it can handle a stock prosumer camcorder like the XH-A1 easily, but since I've never used a 35mm adapter (or anything of that size or weight in front of the camera) I don't know how well it would handle an unbalanced load.

[rhervag]

yes, once you start adding rails, filters/hoods or mattebox with longer lenses, it really gets tricky to adjust the center without a versatile baseplate.
i've resorted to the old sandbag method when needed but always fears someone bumping it foreward

[fishops]

Generally speaking, you want a setup rated for twice to three times what your rig actually weighs. I've tried using a setup like that on a Velbon and a 501, it's completely impossible to pan or tilt reliably. In the case of the Velbon I was even getting concerned for the safety of the camera.

The bogen 503 head with MVB series legs would be a good starting point. You can hopefully pick up something used for around 400-600 USD. Do not skimp on this. When your rig is out of balance on sticks, it is extremely vulnerable. Do not skimp on this. I really mean it. I've seen cameras go down on sticks. It's horrible.

[zephyrnoid]

Generally speaking, you want a setup rated for twice to three times what your rig actually weighs. I've tried using a setup like that on a Velbon and a 501, it's completely impossible to pan or tilt reliably. In the case of the Velbon I was even getting concerned for the safety of the camera.

The bogen 503 head with MVB series legs would be a good starting point. You can hopefully pick up something used for around 400-600 USD. Do not skimp on this. When your rig is out of balance on sticks, it is extremely vulnerable. Do not skimp on this. I really mean it. I've seen cameras go down on sticks. It's horrible.
Drum roll please....
I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!:hv20-smilie77::hv20-smilie70:
Coming from a still photo background, it's easy to misjudge the video tripod completely. I mistakenly sold a rock solid and heavy Gitzo in exchange for an oh so much lighter Manfrotto 3221 + 701RC2 (HV20 Rig). HUGE mistake.

"you want a setup rated for twice to three times what your rig actually weighs" is the mantra.
If I can add one more short list:
- spreader-less sticks are very nice for dealing with : steps, odd angles and low heights. Mine are Miller DS10 Solo ALU ( NOT CARBON)
- Consider that your tripod may not be supporting just your camera, but a slider rig + a second head + the camera. Thus the 3 times rule.
So I have a second tripod for all that.
- It's all in the head. Smooth TRUE fluid action is critical. I've had those psuedo fluid heads bind on me in cold winter shoots. A sealed fluid head can be 'loosened' to move nicely even in the dead of Winter.

[Seo]

Okay, so I was going with the Bogen 503/525 tripod kit but now I hear some people complaining about the ground spreaders on the sticks. I looked around and found the Bogen 503/351 tripod kit with middle spreaders but some people were complaining about that being hard to use as well.

The 503/351 is quite a bit cheaper, but I hear the 525MVB sticks are very nice. So, taking price into consideration, what do you think would work better with an A1 + adapter rig and an A1 without an adapter?

EDIT: I meant the 351MVB2K when I was talking about the middle spreaders. The 351MVB doesn't have spreaders apparently. Btw other suggestions for sticks like the 350 or whatever are welcome!

[Halsu]

I've seen cameras go down on sticks. It's horrible.

I have 503 with single carbon sticks, can't remember the model number for those... it's about the lightest sticks / head combo i'd like to use with any camera. Perfect for HV20 without accessories (or just with WA lens), especially when used with spreader / dolly wheels.

This said, i once had this tripod knocked over by wind ;-)

...was shooting timelapse of storm clouds, had the tripod low and legs spread wide. The wind must have been pretty darn strong. Luckily nothing broke. So yeah, this is not the place to skimp.

[Halsu]

I hear some people complaining about the ground spreaders on the sticks.

What are they complaining about?

[Seo]

What are they complaining about?

It being hard to use on anything other than flat floors. Is it that big of a deal? And would carrying around a wooden platform solve the problem?

[fishops]

It being hard to use on anything other than flat floors. Is it that big of a deal? And would carrying around a wooden platform solve the problem?

That's the nature of ground spreaders, but it's worth having one with the 351MVB legs because the mid spreader is a pain in the ass. I use a ground spreader probably 85% of the time. Don't bother with a platform or anything, if you are in a situation that's too uneven for a ground spreader, just take it off and use the spikes or feet. The 3-position leg locks work fine regardless of spreaders.

[Seo]

That's the nature of ground spreaders, but it's worth having one with the 351MVB legs because the mid spreader is a pain in the ass. I use a ground spreader probably 85% of the time. Don't bother with a platform or anything, if you are in a situation that's too uneven for a ground spreader, just take it off and use the spikes or feet. The 3-position leg locks work fine regardless of spreaders.

Oh, so the 351MVB probably isn't a good choice. Ground spreaders can be removed? That's awesome, guess those sticks work for me then.

Would something like the 516 or 519 heads be better suited for an A1 adapter rig? Or would the 503 work fine? And it'd be nice if this setup could you be reused for the next camera I get.

[fishops]

Oh, so the 351MVB probably isn't a good choice. Ground spreaders can be removed? That's awesome, guess those sticks work for me then.

Would something like the 516 or 519 heads be better suited for an A1 adapter rig? Or would the 503 work fine? And it'd be nice if this setup could you be reused for the next camera I get.

Why wouldn't the 351MVB be a good choice? The mid spreader is removable too. The 503 is fine for an A1 with an adapter. I've used it with an EX3 plus Letus Ultimate and monitor, which is just about as much weight as I think it can handle. Any A1 rig will be a lot lighter than that.

[Seo]

Why wouldn't the 351MVB be a good choice? The mid spreader is removable too. The 503 is fine for an A1 with an adapter. I've used it with an EX3 plus Letus Ultimate and monitor, which is just about as much weight as I think it can handle. Any A1 rig will be a lot lighter than that.

Sorry, guess I'm not following along very well...

Kk, that's cool. I guess I should've asked whether or not the 525MVB would be a big improvement over the 351MVB2K, because of the spreaders on it being more usable. If not and the 351 is totally usable, I guess I could save some buying that.

And the reason I asked about the 503 is because a lot of people on other forums aren't really into the 503/501 heads, and recommend the 516 if I want to go with Bogen.

Thank you very much for your help, Fishops. Appreciate it!

[fishops]

You should buy the best tripod you can afford. It's one of the most long-term investments you'll make with video. The 525 / 516 combo is good, but if you can budget that much on support, you should also be considering the Sachtler DV or Miller Solo series as well.

[Seo]

Got it. I have looked into the Sachtler tripods as well as the Miller Solo series but that's slightly above my budget and I can't try them in my area (at least, I don't think I can).

Now I'm decided on either the 525/503 or the 351/503... I'll look into it.

Thanks again, you're a huge help!

[zephyrnoid]

Just a small editorial point. In terms of Manfrotto heads. The true fluid heads start at the 516 . There's a gradient of acceptable pan/tilt action across the range below that but you WILL notice a difference between true fluid and 'Faux' fluid friction heads. In truth, 90% of my pan/tilt shots are 8 seconds or less but in that 8 seconds a jolt or hesitation will read like a jump cut in your edits– essentially ruining the shot. That's why such a big deal is made of the quality of the head. Pan hard, fast, slow, sloppy and a good fluid head will compensate.

That and as your rig's weight grows, so will the demand on the tripod head.

[fishops]

Just a small editorial point. In terms of Manfrotto heads. The true fluid heads start at the 516 .

Not true. The 503 is a true fluid head.

[zephyrnoid]

Not true. The 503 is a true fluid head.

I want to believe you but I remember reading that a Manfrotto rep stated that the true fluid capsule head, versus greased sealed friction bearings only existed in the two top models.I'll do some digging in Italy to get to the bottom of that, unless you've opened one up perhaps.

[fishops]

edit: forget it

[zephyrnoid]

edit: forget it

Please don't despair. I really mean it when I say I want to believe it. It's just that if you scour the internet on this matter, you read all sorts of stuff, much of it contradictory. For YEARS Manfrotto marketing fed us this notions that if they said FLUID you didn't have to think about weather there was a real, sealed capsule in there or just friction bearings with a bunch of grease around them. Well, about 20 years into that game we all then learn the difference. Even the Miller DS10 that I use is billed as True Fluid and it sure behaves like it, but when I quizzed Hector Torres of Miller Service, he conceded it was a sealed friction bearing with a bunch of grease around it. So the industry spoof customers since there really is FLUID in the capsule but there's also a friction bearing. That is not the same as a bearing that is all Fluid. And maybe that's good. I found one post yesterday that spoke of a backlash effect from the 503 when the pan is set totally 'loose' , it can't whip pan because there's resistance at the end of the move! If I lived in NYC, I'd walk to B&H and write a whole report on this stuff- but I don't.
NOTE: Something not talked about much but worth mentioning. Fluid heads of all types contain a lubricant that increases in viscosity in really cold temps. In February I was out in 28ºf weather shooting and the pans were about 1/2 the speed of 75º days! So you know, the grass 'aint always greener on the other side.
Maybe friction bearings are better for wide temp. ranges?

[Seo]

Very close to making a deal with a seller for the 503/525 combo but then I ran into a seller that might be selling the Libec LS38 (which has been reviewed as much better than the 503/525 combo) for around the same price.

Now I'm no longer sure about my previous choice, but if the seller doesn't finish up his deal I might jump on the chance... Thoughts guys?

[antman]

Have you looked into an older 3066. I have a couple and I love um. They pan beautiful.

[Seo]

They're called the 516 now right? Yes, I've looked into them, and I've even found offers for 400 dollars used. Buying the T72 sticks alone would be 320 (out of stock though..) and the head would be 400, so altogether it'd be 720 for a used package. I could get the LS-38 with the mid-spreader new for that much, and with a bag, so I dunno...

Do you know any articles or reviews comparing the 516 head and the H38? I've seen ones on the 503 and H38 and everyone preferred the H38.

[antman]

Im not saying to buy the new equivalent, Im saying look around for an actual 3066 on ebay. It's a great head for your A1 and when you get your dof , it will easily handle the weight. But if you want to buy new, I understand getting the warranty and such.

[zephyrnoid]

Is everyone in China as able to peruse e-bay as those in the USA?

[Seo]

Not sure, but I can browse and probably order no problem.

I'm not the one who actually orders my own equipment, a contact in the US does it for me due to shipping fees and possible taxes.