Hum removal, Final Cut Express

[rakunus]

Hello. I'm editing my project and it seems that most of the footage has some noise, I think that from HV20's tape mechanism (I used the built in microphone).
Now, does anyone know how do I remove this hum? I heard about hum removal audio filter, but I don't know how to use it.

Thanks a lot.

[DrDave]

I use waves X-hum, if it is just hum. Reduce the depth of the notches till you hear the hum again.
Broad spectrum noise is much harder, you can use a noise sampling program--they vary greatly in quality.

[rakunus]

that's not free. or is it? I think I need a more simple solution.

[dearcatastrophe]

if you want a free solution, try audacity. export the audio, process it, and then bring it back in to FC.
if you go out to google, there are plenty of tutorials on unwanted sound removal with audacity.

if fce comes with soundtrack, you could do it in soundtrack as well.

[iThinkergoiMac]

If your copy of FCE came with Soundtrack, you might be able to use that. Otherwise, the only think I can think of is to use FCE to export the audio track, import it into Audacity (the most awesome free sound editor out there), use Audacity to remove the noise, and bring it back in to FCE.

Note that, however you want to remove the noise, you're going to need a space of silence to successfully remove it. The space of "silence" would have just the noise and no other sound in it.

[iThinkergoiMac]

Wow... we just said pretty much the exact same thing...

[dearcatastrophe]

If your copy of FCE came with Soundtrack, you might be able to use that. Otherwise, the only think I can think of is to use FCE to export the audio track, import it into Audacity (the most awesome free sound editor out there), use Audacity to remove the noise, and bring it back in to FCE.

Note that, however you want to remove the noise, you're going to need a space of silence to successfully remove it. The space of "silence" would have just the noise and no other sound in it.

i wish i had said that.. haha. :)

[iThinkergoiMac]

haha! On a side note, do you know if Soundtrack can remove noise/hum? I know Soundtrack Pro can do it, but I've never used just Soundtrack...

[dearcatastrophe]

you know, maybe it doesn't, it seems everywhere hypes it in soundtrack pro, but you never hear a thing about the older version of soundtrack.

i downloaded the manual from apple and it discusses noise gates on p127 so i would assume there is some sort of noise removal in soundtrack.

[iThinkergoiMac]

OK, cool... it would make sense for it to have some kind of ability to remove noise.

I find it interesting that, at one point, Soundtrack and Soundtrack Pro were different programs that coexisted, but now ST is just the "older version"...

[dearcatastrophe]

i don't understand why fcs still includes soundtrack pro, i know some people use it, but i think apple would do so much better including logic as part of fcs.

[iThinkergoiMac]

Indeed... but then Apple wouldn't make as much off of Logic. My theory is that, in some ways, Logic is probably overkill for FCS. While FCS is professional quality, if you are truly going to make a top-notch professional film, you'll be needing to buy addons for FCS anyway, like Logic.

[EssentialParadox]

You can remove hum to a large degree using the built-in frequency filters in Final Cut. You don't need a specific hum removal plugin, you just need to isolate the frequency with the hum on it and lower the volume on that particular frequency.

[rakunus]

Yeah! I want to do that! But I don't know how. And can't google anything about it.

[dearcatastrophe]

under your audio filters look for notch filter. depending on the hum, you can mess with the frequency. try 59-61hz. depending on the hum, you could go higher, i think maybe 150hz. electric hum in the US, is around 60hz, in europe, around 50hz. notch filters are pretty cool if you consider what they do in real world usage like PA systems. I always wondered why they didn't just call them band-stop filters because that sounds much cooler to me. Basically, the notch filter passes ever band except for the frequency you select.

personally, i like to take audio out of FCP because you can get more control of the audio using an audio program and meld it into what you need.

[DebG.]

under your audio filters look for notch filter. .......

Basically, the notch filter passes ever band except for the frequency you select.

personally, i like to take audio out of FCP because you can get more control of the audio using an audio program and meld it into what you need.

Yes, but what if you have Final Cut EXPRESS 4 and not Final Cut Pro 6? Still not sure of the differences between the two programs, but is that one of them?

Thanks, Deborah

[dearcatastrophe]

i think, i hope that FCE also has the notch filter. honestly, i don't know, not having FCE and only FCS installed. Since every environment is different, it's hard to say.

i just went to http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/tutorials/ and watched the audio filter tutorial, and i saw Notch in the list, so it looks like it is there, under FCE filters.

:)

the big difference is FCP has a hum remover filter that offers a simple solution. there are so many ways around it though, it's not that big of an issue.

[DebG.]

....

i just went to http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/tutorials/ and watched the audio filter tutorial, and i saw Notch in the list, so it looks like it is there, under FCE filters.

:)

the big difference is FCP has a hum remover filter that offers a simple solution. there are so many ways around it though, it's not that big of an issue.



Well, at least FCE4 has the notch filter if not the hum remover filter.

Thanks for the link to the tutorials! I'll be going to check that out.

Deborah

[DrDave]

If you use a notch filter at say 60Hz you will also need to include the natural harmonics. But inexpensive solutions alas tend to produce uneven results.

[dearcatastrophe]

free is always a limiting factor.

[scotthampton]

Hmm. I was just struggling with this issue. i have a nasty hum that I want to kill. Going to have to try this.

[scotthampton]

No fortune with the hum remover. Tried Hum Remover, Notch, and Low Pass. I don't think the AC was on in the room I recorded in, but there was a lot of audio equipment and wiring. Any idea what would work in such an environment? I could post a clip...
Scott

[iThinkergoiMac]

It would help to have more info, such as what program you're using, etc.

[scotthampton]

LOL

Final Cut Express!

[Dan Irving]

I had a recent video project where I had to deal with a similar problem. Unfortunately, I was in a quiet room and had to use the HV-20's on-board microphone for the audio. The motor noise was very annoying.

I ended up using SoundSoap to cut the noise, and it worked pretty well. It wasn't a free program, but it wasn't super expensive, either. There is a "Basic" version, which is the one I got, and a "Pro" version, which is quite a bit more expensive.

http://xserve1.bias-inc.com:16080/products/soundsoap2/

If you are recording a person speaking, you need a couple seconds of just the room tone with the motor noise for the program to sample in order for the filtering to work well. Just make sure that your tape is rolling for a few seconds before your subject begins speaking.

Good Luck!

[scotthampton]

Thanks, Dan (and welcome to the forums). I have to shy away from another expense right now, because I've been spending a bit too much to justify recently (I just picked up two softboxes, heads, and stands...). I've heard of Sound Soap and would like to try it, but can't pony up the cash.

I do have the tone, though, but not sure how useable it would be with the nasty hum (unless it gets analyzed and cleaned or something...)

[scotthampton]

But,
"Remove noise from digital media files
...Broadband noise — like air conditioning systems picked up by a DV camera's microphone, or the hiss from analog audio and video cassettes — doesn't stand a chance."...
sounds like just what I need!

[dearcatastrophe]

post a clip of it.

[scotthampton]

Sure thing. But, it'll have to be tomorrow, unfortunately. I have a render going right now that's going to run for a while. I'll post something as soon as I can in the morning, and feel free to take a look when you can.

Thanks!

[iThinkergoiMac]

You could also check out Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/), it does a pretty good job of noise removal. As a fun bonus, it also will use the Core Audio filters, which are top notch.

[DebG.]

I have just tried Soundsoap 2 Basic and LOVED it. I used the standalone version on some clips I had filmed of a speaker at the last minute (so was not able to mic him, A/C going, faraway from my Rode, etc.) and this app did wonders for the audio! Very impressed and I think I'll even re-do some projects now where despite my efforts and cleaning up the audio, it never really came out well. It's VERY easy to use and the site even has a tutorial video on how to use it.

I can see myself making quite a bit of use of this in the future.


Deborah

[scotthampton]

DebG., you sound like an enthusiastic pitch woman!

I can't budget for it now, since I have to order DVDs, advertising, and merch for PARALLAX. But, if it's that good, I will certainly have to budget for it. Audio is not my specialty, so any help is greatly utilized.

Dearcatastophe et al., I posted a clip. It's compressed, of course. H.264 at 720p, best quality, 29.97 fps, automatic keyframes, single pass; AAC audio, 48.000 kHz, 128 kbps. The hum isnt as bad in the clip, I'm presuming because it's compressed. Here's a link: http://www.scotthamptonshoots.com/hv20/outtake.mov

I don't remember if the AC was on, but I had a 500 watt tungsten light on, and there was audio equipment everywhere. Surge protectors, cords and wires, instruments, etc.

You can download the .mov if you want.
Scott

[dearcatastrophe]

sorry i haven't been online, i have been fairly busy. taking a look and listen to it right now.

[dearcatastrophe]

well, as soon as my install finishes.. grrr.

[scotthampton]

That's cool. I was away until last night. Just got back from an Afro Punk festival, so I wasn't able to do anything anyway.

[dearcatastrophe]

i've been messing with it and with what you have access to have had no luck. for some reason i can't isolate the frequency, it could be because it's compressed or it could be i'm just having poor luck. :)
anyway, i loaded up sound soap SE 2, it actually is included with toast 10. i was able to learn the hum and kill it with sound soap.
i can vouch for sound soap as well, i'll have to look into sound soap pro since they offer an upgrade/crossgrade.

i'd say, would it be possible to upload a portion of raw footage? not too much though. :)

[scotthampton]

Thanks for checking it out.

Let me see what I have in the footage. I know there were a few straight takes, like 15 minutes each. Can't upload those monsters.

If I can't find anything small, don't kill yourself. I'm working on getting my hands on Sound Soap, so I just might be able to do something. Let me check, and I'll post back.

Thanks, again.
Scott

[krisg]

I use wavearts (http://www.wavearts.com/) plugs with great success. Cheaper than most, they offer a full blown 30 day demo. You have a learn mode in the hum removal dialog where you can run an empty portion of audio with just the hum and make the plug learn its characteristics. Very powerful. Waves and others do that too that is.