What is 35mm DOF lens adapters? [Archive] - High Definition Digital Video Forum

View Full Version : What is 35mm DOF lens adapters?

VideJo

2007 September 6th, 03:35

I am afraid I may be considered a noob asking this question, but I have been wondering for a while, why so many people, mainly in the US go through lenghts to make or buy themselves a 35mm adaptor.
Is this only to ensure, that only the subject is to be sharp and the rest less than with the standard cam?
I also believe that such a big contraption wil not be praticle to use for traveling. So do you guys use it only on static shots? Always on a tripod?

dr jones

2007 September 6th, 03:52

sounds like you need a basic seminar in the fundamentals of photography. google 35mm adapters and research depth of field. there you will find the answers you seek.

Erik Bien

2007 September 6th, 04:15

A 35mm adapter (and the necessary arsenal of manual focus, 35mm still camera lenses to go with it) is not something the average vacation and birthday shooter needs or wants. (Do you have the saying in the Netherlands, "Ignorance is Bliss"?)

The HV20 is capable of producing better video than many similar cameras in its price range -- so much so that it has attracted the attention of starving indie filmmakers. By and large, those are the people willing to undertake the expense, effort and added complexity of using 35mm adapters (and yes, the most common reason for doing so is to achieve "shallow depth of field," where focus can be sharp only where the filmmaker wants it to be).

veg

2007 September 6th, 05:19

Wasnt so long ago we were begging for faster cameras to get greater Depth of Field. Funny how things change!.

VideJo

2007 September 6th, 06:41

Thanks to all to fill me in, but dr jones sure underestimated me . . .

sounds like you need a basic seminar in the fundamentals of photography.

I bought my first SLR in 1962, an Exa 1b . . .

Jo

V10TDI

2007 September 6th, 06:58

Thanks to all to fill me in, but dr jones sure underestimated me . . .I bought my first SLR in 1962, an Exa 1b . . .

Jo

Perhaps he should have said...you need a basic seminar in the fundamentals of film-ography

;-)

SenorKaffee

2007 September 6th, 07:14

A 35mm adapter help you to realize a very shallow depth of field. Theat means - only one layer of what you see on the screen is sharp, everything before or behind is fuzzy.

Now why do you want to mess up your picture like this? ;)

First of all - it looks more like a film camera and less like a video cam. Minority complexes aside, the shallow DOF helps the cameraman to guide the viewers eye. The layer that is sharp is important. It mimics our own field of vision. We only analyze a part of what we see, the part where we look at, the rest remains blurry... especially if you need specs like I do. :D

It is not the holy grail of making your video look better or more professional. It is one technique that can proove useful for you image language. If you like deep DOF you don´t need to think about these adapters.

The DOF of the HV20 also becomes shallower when you maxmize the optical zoom, I´ve seen some nice looking videos using this trick.

VideJo

2007 September 6th, 08:13

Danke schön, Herr Kaffee!
Now I am on speeking terms again with some more items in this forum.

I have won several prices on film festivals. Even without an adaptor.
In my perception the technics is only a carriage to bring your message. The quality of the film is between the ears. Or in the clips. Or in the sequences.

wolferic

2007 September 6th, 10:21

Jo -

You did admit that you were afraid of being labeled a 'noobie' for your question, so it's not surprising that people underestimated your age and experience!

But c'mon boys, tell the truth - most of us are simply geeks, whether we want to admit it or not, we like to tinker and modify things and would rather buy a cheap camera and customize it than take out a mortgage and buy a fancy do-it-all camera that leaves little room for customization.

I think a better point would be to ask why so many on the forum are concerned with making their beautiful LITTLE HV20 so big by adding Matte-boxes and over-sized lens shades. But hey, whatever floats yer boat.

Me, I'm still playing with super-8 cameras 'cause I can make them do cool things. But truth be told, I'd have made more films by now but maybe not have learned as much if I had gone straight to video years back...

VideJo

2007 September 6th, 11:25

To acknowledge my age and experience, please have a look at me, holding my DIY Rig, with my previous camera on it.
Later on I added the remote control of the cam to the hoop and I guided the signal to the eye of the cam with a glassfiber cord.
Intend to do the same with the hv20. Making use of the recomendations by someone on this forum, i.e. mounting a reflector near the front of the cam.

http://www.videomontagefaq.nl/index.php?action=artikel&cat=399755&id=400&artlang=nl

In case somebody would like to also build such Rig, please call out. I could addapt the drawings by translating the dimensions to inches.
In case you would like to have one, but do not have the skills and/or the tools to make one, I have one spare Rig available (made a series of 5) and I could sell it for $175, excl. shipment. It comes with the Manfrotto Quick Release Adaptor as shown and the Rig itself is black paint enameled.

Pyrowizz

2007 September 19th, 03:49

What is so special about 35mm lens adapters? Do i relay need one to achieve a "good film look"? If so can some on recommend one for $20 or less. (not on e-bay, if it is sold at a store the store needs to be close to Van Nuys, CA 91406)

-Chris

SenorKaffee

2007 September 19th, 04:24

Have a look here.
http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=2306

Even a DIY adapter will cost you a few hundred dollars to make, so it´s not likely to find one for 20 bucks.

Daan Pol

2007 September 19th, 04:49

If you'd like a good breakdown of the difference between a 35 mil adapter and none check out this video;

http://www.redrockmicro.com/footage/HVX200/karcher_stringer.mov

Pyrowizz

2007 September 19th, 10:15

UPDATE: nevermind

dr jones

2007 September 19th, 12:01

a 35mm adapter for 20 dollars, LMAO!

seriously though.. if you have to ask "do i really need one?" than a 35mm adapter is NOT for you.

tkmslee

2007 September 19th, 13:50

I think you may be able to put a cheap-o adapter together with a shoe box and tissue paper for the ground glass. But then the lens might put you over that budget...never mind!

Seriously though, if you can ever get your hands on an adapter and try one out and see, first hand, the differences it makes in your video, then you will most likely agree that it's worth the small investment. $200-$300 for a DIY or about 1K for a real one.

irrbloss

2007 September 19th, 14:30

The main advantage (the only advantage?) is greater depth of field as I understand. Wouldn't 406/2.8 give enough DOF (406 mm is the equiv. 35 mm-focal length)?

tkmslee

2007 September 19th, 14:35

I know that there are those that love the adapters and then there are those that hate them. Each have their own reasons to use or not use an adapter, but in my experience, and preference, there is no substitute for a 35mm adapter.

irrbloss

2007 September 19th, 14:51

tkmslee

2007 September 19th, 16:42

Don't you loose quite a lot of light using a focus screen, which would lead to more gain and more noise? I really would like to try a 35 mm-adapter, but they are too expensive. I already got lots of Canon EF-lenses as I do still photography too. Is there a simple way of just playing around with it before you buy/build something too expensive? Like using a very thin paper as a focus screen, just holding it between the lense and HV20?

Yeah you could certainly play around with it and "try" the concept out. But it has already been tried and proven. You will never know what the full quality is like unless you buy or make the real thing. I tried with similar material like a piece of obscured plastic. But until I made one with the right materials, I never got even near the image quality and the potential that a 35mm adapter can have.

I have actually made and sold several of these adapters. If you are interested just send me a private message and I will give you the details.

Brian Boyko

2007 September 19th, 18:47

Oddly enough, the HV20 actually has pretty good DOF qualities for a cam itself.

I can't afford an 35mm adapter, but if my film is a hit, well, who knows.

Then again, if my film is a hit, I'll probably step up to a RED. :)

CBarce

2007 September 19th, 23:44

Jo:

You seem to be pretty handy. You can order plans and a ground glass disk and build your own Redrock type 35mm adapter at redrockmicro.com.

The whole point of 35mm adapter is to simulate the depth of field of 35mm film cameras by using 35mm lenses and thowing the image on a ground glass that is thereafter taped by the video camera. The result is an image with the same or similar characteristice of 35mm film.

VideJo

2007 September 20th, 04:46

Thanks to all for clearing up my lack of understanding.
The only thing I do not grab yet is the ground glass thing. Is this a real glass circular "lens" that it to be mounted between the 35mm lens and the camera? Does it by any chance have a frosted surface?

dr jones

2007 September 20th, 05:01

dr jones

2007 September 20th, 05:05

The main advantage (the only advantage?) is greater depth of field as I understand.
no, the advantage is LESS depth of field. acheiving greater depth of field is exactly what you don't want when you use a 35mm adapter.

VideJo

2007 September 20th, 05:06

Thank you

Terfyn

2007 September 20th, 05:09

VideJo

2007 September 20th, 05:15

There are many people who do have a good grasp of photography who don't use or need a 35mm adapter.
Bought my first SLR in 1962 . . .
Gave my wife some photographic lessons the other day . . .
Have been teaching NLE for two years . . .
Have a son who is a pro editor . . .
Won several awards on film festivals w/o a 35mm adaptor . . .
So indeed I am a reel dude . . .

dr jones

2007 September 20th, 05:21

Dr jones. Ther are many people out here who would not know a 35mm adapter if they fell over it in the street. There are many more people who have produced brilliant films without a 35mm adapter. In the analogue days we just got on with the equipment we could afford.
There are many people who do have a good grasp of photography who don't use or need a 35mm adapter.

terfyn, i agree with you.

my point was... the amount of needless threads around here are ridiculous. i mean something really should be done about this. there have been tons and tons of threads exactly like this one that can easily be found with the search function. and like i said, there's always wiki and google, too.

VideJo

2007 September 20th, 05:31

That is exactly the reason why noone can find the basics around 35mm adaptors. As we say in Holland: "Because of all the trees one can no longer see the forrest".

Terfyn

2007 September 20th, 05:34

dr jones

2007 September 20th, 07:13

That is exactly the reason why noone can find the basics around 35mm adaptors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth-of-field_adapter

all you would ever need to know about 35mm adapters :)

Erik Bien

2007 September 20th, 07:29

Dr jones. Ther are many people out here who would not know a 35mm adapter if they fell over it in the street.

Leave it to Terfyn to perfectly answer the OP's original question:

Q: What is a 35mm adaptor good for?
A: Tripping up unsuspecting n00bs!

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself ...) :hv20-smilie84:

Terfyn

2007 September 20th, 08:24

I tripped over in the street, the other day. Was it a 35mm adapter? No it was a drunk.:hv20-smilie119:
I understand the need for a device that projects an upside down picture onto a piece of ground glass.:eek:
Why not just buy a camera with interchangable lenses to obtain the same effect?

Halsu

2007 September 20th, 08:45

Why not just buy a camera with interchangable lenses to obtain the same effect?

It's not about the lenses - it's about imager size. If you screwed HV20:s lens off and glued an SLR camera lens to it, the DOF characteristics wouldn't change at all (with the same aperture and focal lens), as the CMOS is still the same old 1/3".

Even the big pro broadcast / HD cameras have only 2/3" sensors, with not THAT much more shallow a DOF than HV20 - They're quite close to 16 mm film as far as DOF goes.

RED is the first commercially available digital video camera that "obtains the same effect", with it's "35mm sized" sensor.

Even that is less than what most DOF-adapters do, as the sensor size is the same as 35mm motion pictures film's imaging area - just half of that of 35mm SLR:s and most DOF adapters.

***

Anyway, the information spreading to multiple similar threads could be reduced a LOT by making a few more sticky threads...

VideJo

2007 September 20th, 08:45

[QUOTE=dr jones;20347 All you would ever need to know about 35mm adapters :)[/QUOTE]
. . . but were afraid to ask.
Thanks for the link. Got a lot wiser now. Never to late for that. :hv20-smilie24:

Getting back to the issue of finding basic info on the adaptors: maybe it would be profitable to create a separate chapter on Adapters, where on which one could place a sticky, with the link to Wiki, you gave.
And on the search enige: can it be done to specify a particular chapter in which you expect the item to be found? I've seen this on other Fora.

wolferic

2007 September 20th, 09:32

I agree with you on that The site is for HV20 owners and users. Yes we do have problems with NLEs especially Vegas and we want to know more about items like microphones, lenses and 35 mm adapters BUT the repetition is getting too much. I find the Search option very useful but I would like to see a restructuring to keep NLEs from cameras and so on.
The popularity of the Forum just shows how good it is. I do feel that our lords and masters should sit back and look at greater control of the subject matter and access to it.

I couldn't agree more. It's actually getting HARDER to find decent information because people are not posting to the right thread/forum (look, I'm doing it myself RIGHT NOW!)

Anyway, the information spreading to multiple similar threads could be reduced a LOT by making a few more sticky threads...

…or maybe by people reading the FAQ and paying more attention to the subject headings.

I tripped over in the street, the other day. Was it a 35mm adapter? No it was a drunk.

Actually, that was me Terfyn, looking for less depth of field…

Erik Bien

2007 September 20th, 09:33

My bokeh has fallen, and it can't get up!!

Halsu

2007 September 20th, 09:40

…or maybe by people reading the FAQ

Well, i couldn't find anything relevant to this in the FAQ: could you elaborate what you mean?

irrbloss

2007 September 20th, 11:49

no, the advantage is LESS depth of field. acheiving greater depth of field is exactly what you don't want when you use a 35mm adapter.
Sorry, I _meant_ that... :hv20-smilie45:

wolferic

2007 September 21st, 05:58

Halsu -

You're right…my mistake. I DO remember reading something about not double-posting, etc. when I first joined the forum, but there is nothing on the FAQ. I guess it's just assumed that people will understand that posts to a thread should be kept on the relevant topic.

I did find this: Canon HV20 User Forum > HV20 Forum > News
> Some "guidelines" for posting...

…but you are correct, this is not in the FAQ.

dr jones

2007 September 21st, 07:41

. . . but were afraid to ask.
Thanks for the link. Got a lot wiser now. Never to late for that. :hv20-smilie24:

Getting back to the issue of finding basic info on the adaptors: maybe it would be profitable to create a separate chapter on Adapters, where on which one could place a sticky, with the link to Wiki, you gave.
And on the search enige: can it be done to specify a particular chapter in which you expect the item to be found? I've seen this on other Fora.

hmm that's a good question.

but anyways sorry if i was kinda short in my previous posts. i realized that you were right... there are so many 35mm adapter threads that you can't see the forrest for the trees. i did another search just to see and sure enough there was no real info about them... just dozens of threads on how to build them or whatnot.

boss

2007 November 4th, 01:03

i just wanted to say that i learned alot from this forum about 35mm...
and i also learned that dr jones is a grade a <moderated>

whyisjake

2007 November 6th, 22:21

To acknowledge my age and experience, please have a look at me, holding my DIY Rig, with my previous camera on it.
Later on I added the remote control of the cam to the hoop and I guided the signal to the eye of the cam with a glassfiber cord.
Intend to do the same with the hv20. Making use of the recomendations by someone on this forum, i.e. mounting a reflector near the front of the cam.
http://www.videomontagefaq.nl/index.php?action=artikel&cat=399755&id=400&artlang=nl

I have made a similar rig. Take a gander...
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/107/305393447_b85d0c36db.jpg?v=0

For directions on how to make one, I put my shopping list up:http://prestige.wordpress.com/2006/11/27/fig-rig/

David Zeno

2007 November 19th, 14:37

Ah gee :(

I viewed some HV20 video last night on YouTube.com and saw on a few videos where the subject was in focus, and the background was very blurred, I just thought that this was built into the camera, and it had some sort of more intelligent focus system than my old miniDV camcorder.

So in other words, without this special adapter, everything that I film will be in focus, more or less ? :hv20-smilie51:

( I have ordered the HV20, but don't have it in my hands yet, so that is why the question )

Also - how does this adapter attach to the camera ? is it screwed onto the lens ?

Thanks for any info.

Dave.

The main advantage (the only advantage?) is greater depth of field as I understand. Wouldn't 406/2.8 give enough DOF (406 mm is the equiv. 35 mm-focal length)?

wolferic

2007 November 19th, 14:57

David -

Don't worry, the HV20 is a fantastic camera with or without a 35mm adapter.

ANSWER TO FIRST QUESTION: Not necessarily. Do a search for 'Depth of Field' to find out more about how this works.

ANSWER TO SECOND QUESTION: Yes, generally. But since most of these devices are DIY, there could be other ways to attach it to the camera.

For more information, please read this:

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=489

(the answer to your question is #8)

David Zeno

2007 November 19th, 15:26

Hi wolferic

thanks much for the info and the link.

I'm getting excited about my new HV20 :)

I also have the Canon TX1, which I actually like quite a bit,
it does so called "HD" video, not sure if this is really true, but it's
an amazing little camera, and it blows away the video quality of my
Canon SD series camera.

The main reason I bought the TX1, was the ability to zoom *while*
recording, something the SD series of Canon cameras cannot do.

Well, it's going to be fun once I get the new toy ! :)
[QUOTE=wolferic;29731]David -

Swefsvr

2008 March 7th, 14:38

AH....35mm adapter, I made one but the problem is the dust, and I need to invert the image or flip the camcorder, very painful.

Erik Bien

2008 March 7th, 15:19

... thus there are vibrating adapters and flip modules!

Worley

2008 March 7th, 15:40

I have the prisms to make a flip module, but I don't have the time to make a prototype at the moment.

To hide the appearance of dust, you really need a vibrating adapter.

spazzblaster

2008 March 9th, 23:19

I have the prisms to make a flip module, but I don't have the time to make a prototype at the moment.

To hide the appearance of dust, you really need a vibrating adapter.

Is it really that hard to just keep the dust out to begin with?

Also, do you know if anyone has any instructions on how to make a flip module with prisms?

mattias

2008 March 10th, 10:29

my first adapter was a set of nikon tubes, two filter rings, and a piece of 216 diffusion. it was around $30. try it.

/matt

Swefsvr

2008 March 17th, 15:41

my first adapter was a set of nikon tubes, two filter rings, and a piece of 216 diffusion. it was around $30. try it.

/matt

Anyway you can show us your adapter?

mattias

2008 March 17th, 17:48

i've replaced the ground glass with a vibrating ee-s, but either way it looks exactly like a set of nikon tubes with a phone cord hanging from it, i mean that's what it is. :-) i'm sure you've seen it a million times before. otherwise just search the site for my name and "rig" and you'll find pictures.

/matt

swaneon

2008 May 11th, 16:20

Can anyone list out the necessary parts to build a DOF adapter?
Particularly from Daniel's site?
Thank you very much.

sjursen

2008 May 11th, 18:05

It's on Daniels site ;)

Dr. Benway

2008 May 11th, 18:23

HV

Step-up ring

Achromat

Circular Polariser to modify

Step-up ring

Nikon or Canon extension tubes with a vibrating GG Holder, switch and battery holder

Focussing Screen such as Canon Ees

Fast Nikon or Canon lens with filters and hood

Lens extension holder or rails for support so your HV's filter threads aren't carrying all the weight.

Have fun searching Daniel's site...

http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/hv20.jpg

Plus any extras depending on your set-up and preferences.

swaneon

2008 May 12th, 00:58

how much should this cost me to build without the nikon or canon lens?

do i need any biconcave lenses or such?

Dr. Benway

2008 May 12th, 01:27

Search for Worley as he sells them, yes you can build them cheaper than buying one from him but it takes the worry out of the equation, if that's a concern.

Worley

2008 May 12th, 01:52

The ist of parts will depend on whether you want a vibrating or static, and on whether or not wish to make enhancements to the design.

I am happy to provide you with all the parts you need, and instructions, for one of mine. Essentially, a kit.

Send a PM if you're interested.

mattias

2008 May 12th, 04:39

you have the parts list and you obviously have a computer since you're posting here, so how come you don't know the exact cost already?

/matt

alifeofouttakes

2008 May 12th, 16:35

I am building a DOF adapter very similar to the one found on the Mediachance site. Just Google "Mediachance DOF adapter". I don't have the link handy... working... sorry.

Anyway, my question pertains to all DIY DOF adapters:

How in the **** do connect it to my HV30?!

Seriously. They suggest I get a macro lens, but even then how would I attach it. I figure I must need to get a "step-down" ring of some sort, and then just screw it into the 43mm threads on the front of the HV30, and then attach that to the macro lens or find a bracket that I can mount directly to the DOF adapter... maybe.

Any info would really help, I have been researching this religiously for weeks, and I have yet to come up with a clear solution for properly attaching this to my 43mm threads.

Please help.

swaneon

2008 May 12th, 18:09

This is place to ask correct?
And i will send you a pm worley.
I was thinking about vibrating.

tkmslee

2008 May 12th, 18:52

Yeah, it is a place to ask. I don't know why individuals continuously make comments about newcomers and their questions like they are just supposed to know what to look for and how to find it.

The proper set up will cost you around $300 for a DIY kit. Many have done it for less, some have paid a lot more.

mattias

2008 May 13th, 02:23

it's a place where the first thrread on the page says "read before you post". for me this is a place to learn and share, not a place to iterate. that's the first thing my posts said, but anyone with the mental capacity to read between lines will also have noticed that it said "that information is readily available online, go google it", which actually answers the question. the whole fishing rod instead of a fish you know.

/matt

betasx

2008 May 13th, 11:14

If the adapter you are talking about looks like a big black box with a frosted cd in it and a bunch of autocad drawings with bad english text then I'm making that same adapter.

I bought most of the parts back in november but haven't had time to really sit down and finish it. One of my biggest problems is the same as yours, how to attach it as cheap as possible. The other is getting my old FD lenses to open up the iris.

The basic answer that I've found is that you can't attach the HV20 to anything directly, you have to "plug it in" as in making a boot and sticking the camera into it.

Before you laugh look around its more popular than you might think. Here is the crude description. You buy some rail supports that work on a standard rail (15mm?) go buy some alum. tubing and then attach everything to the rail system and push them together. This is much safer then trying to attach a plastic threaded HV20 to a big heavy box.

Keep me up to date or PM me with any questions, I'll try to get some photos up when I get a chance.

Reeven

2008 May 13th, 20:13

So I'm looking at finally getting a 35mm adapter for my HV20. But as I search through and read all of the 35mm adapter threads, there are all sorts of things I don't understand, as I know not a single thing about them.

Firstly, I get the impression that in addition to the adapter, I also need to buy a lense itself, and that focusing would then be done on that lense. Then what happens if one were to zoom? Also, all this talk about the image being flipped, and certain adapters re-flipping to correct it, and vignetting, etc....pretending price is not a factor (that would certainly be lovely) is there any undisputed best 35mm adapter on the market, or are there positives and negatives to each? Or how does the adapter work with wide-angle lenses?

Any other info about 35mm madness to point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. No matter how many of these 35mm threads I read, I just end up confusing myself more and more, so I figured I'd ask for a crash course on the basics.

koolpenguin89

2008 May 13th, 20:24

To zoom, you buy a zoom lens. For wide angle, you buy a wide angle lens. The best adapter on the market has to be the P+S Technik, and it will run you about $8000 USD. To be honest with you, a few hours of research will tell you everything you want to know.

Dylan

swaneon

2008 May 14th, 23:30

Yes but sometimes without prioir knowledge you cannot always understand that knowledge.

Braceface

2008 May 15th, 00:23

Every forum has it's no it alls.

koolpenguin89

2008 May 15th, 01:13

Theres no need for name calling, i did answer his question, right? All im saying is that if i made a post for every question ive had since august, my post count would be a helluva lot higher. Instead, i try the search function and do my research. I understand that newbies sometimes have trouble finding stuff at first, i know i did. Thats why i answered his question, and then gave some advice for the future :)

Dylan

swaneon

2008 May 15th, 02:38

W[/QUOTE]

Step-up ring

Achromat

Circular Polariser to modify

Step-up ring

Nikon or Canon extension tubes with a vibrating GG Holder, switch and battery holder

Focussing Screen such as Canon Ees
Alex's GG:$15
Step Up ring 43-55 on Ebay:$5 shipped on ebay
Opteka 55mm Macro on 47street: $45
Canon EOS tubes 2x: $25
55mm-60mm step up ring: $15
Achromat: $21
Cheap Circular Polariser:$20
total for static:
$146?

and would this work for vibrating?
EOS tubes 2x: $25
2x Tiffen UV 55mm (http://www.adorama.com/TF55UV.html): 17
VH-57:70 or SH-57ND for $20
Alex Focusing screen:15
Phonecable: Free
Pancake motor: 14
total for vibrating with VH-57: 142
total for static SH-57ND:77

would that be correct?
would the quality from static to vibrating be noticable?

Thank you very much.
I could always change from static to vibrating later or not?
im thinking about building a static one then.
All the parts?
Any better ones?

Teap

2008 May 20th, 23:38

Erik Bien

2008 May 20th, 23:41

I'm getting an HV30 soon and I have a question about the different kinds of lenses, specifically the 35mm which everyone seems to use. What exactly do they do for the camera and how much do they cost? And are they recommended?

Not so sound flippant, but no, if you don't know what they do or how much they cost, they are definitely not recommended! :hv20-smilie84:

Teap

2008 May 20th, 23:45

Not so sound flippant, but no, if you don't know what they do or how much they cost, they are definitely not recommended! :hv20-smilie84:

I suppose you would say it's not recommended to learn either?

Erik Bien

2008 May 20th, 23:54

By no means. But you're talking about the equivalent of buying a paddle-shifted McLaren F1 to learn to drive!

Okay, you find a cheap 35mm lens at a flea market, let's say fifty bucks. Then you need the DoF adapter to mount it on: a few hundred if you build it yourself, anywhere from a grand to several grand if you buy one. Then you'll really want a follow focus: again, a few hundred to do it "on the cheap" up to a few thousand to really get something nice. But wait, that follow focus needs rails to mount on: at least another few hundred there. And you'll probably want a matte box (another few hundred) and maybe some filters to put in it (another few hundred), and a wider variety of lenses: except all of the nice, fast wide-angles and telephotos are much more expensive than your first flea-market lens, these days maybe another few hundred each. Getting dizzy yet?

CycleWriter

2008 May 21st, 01:19

I'm getting an HV30 soon and I have a question about the different kinds of lenses, specifically the 35mm which everyone seems to use. What exactly do they do for the camera and how much do they cost? And are they recommended?

Not "everybody" has one. In fact, I'd say only a small percentage of HV owners have one and of those more than a few are simply the gotta-have-it types who will never use it as intended. They are aimed at a specific need, more along the lines of those shooting actual movies and not just videos. Learning actual film-making and story-telling techniques will serve you better than investing in an expensive, unwieldy, labor-intensive piece of equipment that is only useful for a narrow range of shooting circumstances.

Dr. Benway

2008 May 21st, 03:41

Braceface

2008 May 21st, 07:46

Not "everybody" has one. In fact, I'd say only a small percentage of HV owners have one and of those more than a few are simply the gotta-have-it types who will never use it as intended. They are aimed at a specific need, more along the lines of those shooting actual movies and not just videos. Learning actual film-making and story-telling techniques will serve you better than investing in an expensive, unwieldy, labor-intensive piece of equipment that is only useful for a narrow range of shooting circumstances.

Narrow range? I use it for everything I shoot, and I shoot every single day, and just about everything. I'd say that it gives you MORE to shoot, and you shoot it MORE the way you intend. It is labor intensive to be sure but it's a labor of love. And I do agree with you about the storytelling techniques.:hv20-smilie77:

Braceface

2008 May 21st, 07:49

Hey Teap, CW is right unless you are 'indie'. And refer to the item as a 35mm adaptor not lens to pacify the pedants.
To me the HV*0 innately has shallow depth of field, if used for that effect: camera further from subject, zoomed in, the right lighting - soft ambient - not blazing sunshine.

Take care and enjoy the reading, if your heart is set on an adaptor the journey has only just begun.

Incomparable differences in DOF. With a 35mm adaptor you have a bazillion times better selective focus range. Even 2 feet or less away from the subject, not just 60 yards. You don't have to be a pro to enjoy a good 35mm adaptor. It gives you way more choices.

Braceface

2008 May 21st, 07:52

I'll say it again for those reading this. A 35mm adaptor is not a small adjustment to your camera. It gives you a MUCH better image than without. In every way. oh, " IMO "

CycleWriter

2008 May 21st, 13:08

Narrow range? In relation to what the majority of people who buy a consumer-level camcorder shoot, yes. It's nice to have pretensions of becoming another Spielberg, but as far as actual need goes one can live without a 35mm adapter and still create good movies. And it is definitely beyond the expertise of a newbie. That's all I'm saying.:hv20-smilie77:

bluegrass

2008 May 21st, 15:47

I just have to say that I love the interaction - point - counterpoint that cyclewriter and braveface just posted. They said so much that is so true. I thought that both of them were so correct in what they had to say. Everyone here on this forum should be reading their last few posts.

CycleWriter

2008 May 21st, 15:52

jabloomf1230

2008 May 21st, 23:26

Everyone was preoccupied for years as to whether Blu-Ray or HD-DVD would win out as the dominant HD optical disk format. Finally Blu-Ray won out, but just the other day Netflix announced their $99 Ruku box that allows you to download videos directly to your TV. This little box will probably kill the optical disk market altogether. This goes to show you that it's not easy to predict the future.

Now, what does that have to do with the discussion in this thread? Basically, at the moment there are 4 types of "videographers" (or people shooting movies). There's 1) the Spielbergs and the big studios, 2) the indies, 3) the people with prosumer "wedding" setups and 4) people with consumer camcorders. There's a tendency for most people (and pundits for that matter) to just project out trends into the future in a conventional way. For example, you would think that as more people buy high-end consumer models, like the HV20/30, they will eventually graduate to the prosumer models, etc. and then do indie-type movies, etc.

But just like with the example of optical disks vs. direct movie downloads, I don't see that happening. Sites like YouTube and Vimeo are just the first indication of where videography is going. There are literally millions of people making videos and uploading them to the Internet. It's a true populist movement and as the so-called consumer camcorders get better and cheaper, the quality of the best "amateur" online videos will increase. Of course, it will also get harder and harder to wade through the sea of online video garbage.

Just my two cents and I wouldn't sell the high end consumer camcorders like the HV20/30 short. They are starting to and will continue to make a big impact on society, possibly more so than Hollywood movies.

sbcooler

2008 May 22nd, 07:15

tweekskratch

2008 May 22nd, 12:37

call me a noob, but can't you just adjust the focus on the camera, instead of buying a 35mm adapter? Is the only reason for a type of "film" look? Thanks!

Tweek

CycleWriter

2008 May 22nd, 12:57

call me a noob, but can't you just adjust the focus on the camera, instead of buying a 35mm adapter? Is the only reason for a type of "film" look? Thanks!

Tweek

The 35mm adapter is used primarily to decrease depth of field in order to isolate subjects. It is not just a focusing device.

tweekskratch

2008 May 22nd, 13:21

The 35mm adapter is used primarily to decrease depth of field in order to isolate subjects. It is not just a focusing device.

ok, so I get that. Can't u just buy a bunch of adapters, and put whatever lens you want on there?

Erik Bien

2008 May 22nd, 14:37

ok, so I get that. Can't u just buy a bunch of adapters, and put whatever lens you want on there?

???

Not quite following you here ... the usual solution is one DoF adapter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOF_adaptor), and a selection of lenses to put on it.

Or maybe you're talking about adapter rings which allow, for instance, a Nikon lens to be fitted to an SLR or DoF adapter with a Canon-style lens mount?

CycleWriter

2008 May 22nd, 14:58

ok, so I get that. Can't u just buy a bunch of adapters, and put whatever lens you want on there?

Apparently, I wasn't clear enough. The 35mm adapter (aka DoF adapter) is not a simple device like a stepup ring used to mount a wide angle lens directly to the HV camera. It is a complex device that allows lenses from the 35mm SLR camera arena to be used with a digital camcorder. The primary benefit of these devices is better control of depth of focus, but they add a lot of complexity to shooting video, not the least of which is a reversed viewfinder image, more cumbersome camera control, and an unwieldy package. For the average shooter they really aren't a necessity.

There is tons of info on these adapters in the forums. I suggest you do some searches before you ask any more questions on the subject.

bluegrass

2008 May 22nd, 16:55

How do you guys focus the Canon HV20 with a 35mm adapter on during a live situation. That littlw wheel seems to be difficult to use and real difficult with a 35mm adapter...anyone try this and have experience?

I mean there is no focus ring...so isn't it really difficult to keep the camera in focus on closer up shots?

I'm just stepping into this arena myself but I do know that the focusing that your use to, without a dof adaptor, is only needed to be done once. It is simply focusing the HV20 on a tiny 35mm screen inside the adaptor. You should only need to do it one time during your shoot. The focusing you're thinking about is what you do with the 35mm slr lens that is attached to the end of the dof adaptor. You do this to focus the subject that you're shooting onto the little 35mm screen that is inside one of the adaptor cylinders. Incidentally, that image is upside down just like the image we see with our eyes is upside down on our retina. Our brain does a flip for us but these dof adaptors need a special flip module, LCD flip hack, or the camcorder mounted upside down.

Another little tidbit I've just learned is that a follow focus adpator is attached to a dof adaptor in order to make focusing easier. I understand that if you can reach around and grab the manual focus on the front lens to do your focusing, it is possible that you might move the whole lens and camera off of the frame that you want. Follow focus is not a necessity but from what I have read, it is very helpful to smooth out the many steps you need to perform to shoot good video with a dof adaptor. And of course it helps to keep your subject framed the way you want it to be.

It's too bad we don't have a simple explanation of the reasons, the pieces, what the pieces do, etc., etc as for as 35mm adators (dof) go. I imagine I've just scratched the surface in my learning about these things. I can't tell you how many threads and links I've gone to and read to obtain basic information that I could have learned in about 5 or 10 minutes if it was condensed into one thread or a few paragraphs somewhere.

TopChap

2008 May 22nd, 17:52

I think this might be the simplest way to understand what's happening with dof adapters on the HV20/30.

The built in lens on the HV20 is a relatively 'slow' lens, meaning that doesn't let in a whole lot of light. And the light sensor in the camera is relatively small, meaning that the image isn't magnified as much as it would be on a larger sensor. Depth of field (in very simplified terms) is a function of both lens aperature and image magnification. Small lens and small magnification equals large depth of field. Since, for artistic reasons, photographers want the ability to sometimes use a depth of field smaller than is possible with the stock HV20, something else is needed, thus the DoF adapters.

Think of the adapter as a projector and the HV20 as a camera copying a projected image. Since most 35mm slr lenses are much larger than the stock HV20 lens, and the 35mm ground glass (projector screen) is much larger than the HV20 sensor, an image 'projected' with a DoF adapter onto the adapter's ground glass (screen) can have a much smaller depth of field (larger lens and greater magnification equals smaller DoF) than is possible with the HV20 alone. But that 'projected' image, along WITH its smaller depth of field, can be 'copied' by the HV20.

(Not to confuse things more than necessary, but since adapter lenses like wideangle or tele adapters that fit directly onto the HV20 lens don't make the lens any larger in terms of the amount of light transmitted nor change the size of the image being recorded, i.e. sensor size, those kinds of adapters won't change DoF in helpful ways.)

tweekskratch

2008 May 22nd, 19:27

Erik Bien

2008 May 22nd, 19:38

so does the HV20/30's DOF suck?

Well, to paraphrase a former president, that would depend on your definition of "suck" ... I'm pretty sure Gregg Toland (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005904/) would've thought he'd died and gone to heaven if someone had handed him an HV ... :hv20-smilie84:

But okay, to humor you, the HV20 has (approximately) a one-third inch imager (as do most of its nearest competitors, be they CMOS or CCD). It will therefore have deeper (notice I didn't say 'better' or 'worse') depth of field than a Sony EX-1 (one-half inch chip), which in turn has deeper DOF than the F900 (two-thirds inch chip).

If (if!) shallow DoF is next to godliness, and something like an ARRI D-21 or a RED One is beyond your means, then an optical adapter using 35mm stills lenses might be the next best thing.

TopChap

2008 May 22nd, 20:44

And here's a little bit of historical perspective. Way back in the day (early 20th century), a few somewhat significant still photographers (Edward Weston and Ansel Adams to name 2) put together an informal club they called the f64 club. It was a reaction to the even earlier (late 19th century) idea that photography could only be 'art' if it was somehow manipulated to look unreal, i.e. soft focus, shallow DoF, textured paper, etc. The f64 gang, being the reactionaries that they were, did everything they could to manipulate their images so that EVERYTHING was in sharp focus, using extremely small apertures, lens tilt and swing (non-axial lens orientation), zone system exposures to maximize grey scale range and contrast.

If you had told any of them the only way to achieve an artistic result was through shallow DoF, they would have called you antiquated Victorians.

In the early days of film, cinematographers did everything they could to overcome the built-in shallow DoF 'limitation' that was part of the relative lack of sensitivity of film stock that required wide open shooting most of the time. When my grandfather started, they were using stock equivalent to an ASA of less than 10. He was thrilled when Kodak developed a panchromatic emulsion they could shoot at ASA 32 (and this was still b&w). The goal then, at least for the kinds of things he was shooting, was to achieve the kind of sharpness that Adams and Weston were aiming for too.

Taste is a subjective, and fickle, thing.

paOol

2008 June 11th, 20:30

Hi, im new and thinking about purchasing a HV20 sometime in the summer.
i joined this forum to learn as much as i can and to become better at making short films and stuff.
so i was wondering what is a 35mm adapter for?

Crosby!

2008 June 11th, 22:18

Hi and welcome!

There's a lot of threads covering this. The cool thing to do is to do some searches as a lot of things have been covered in detail already. This link should get you started:

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=2564

Also, get some popcorn and your favorite beverage (protect that keyboard!) and visit the footage forum as there's a lot of seriously nice videos to check out and quite a few were shot with one type of 35mm adapter or another.

http://www.hv20.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8

Enjoy!

Eugenia Loli-Queru

2008 June 12th, 01:01

>what is a 35mm adapter for?

It makes this
http://447productions.com/HV20:noM2.jpg
look like this
http://447productions.com/HV20:M2.jpg

Cinemacuteo

2008 June 12th, 08:52

Here you have a 20 minutes explanation: http://www.vimeo.com/1136116 whit all the mambo jambo about lens, circles of confusions, F-Stops, apertures, DOF, etc.

Maulsmash

2008 June 12th, 09:05

http://www.squidoo.com/35mm

modulo

2008 June 16th, 03:57

I have a ton of canon ef lenses, what would be the best choice (considering price and quality) for either purchasing or making an adapter for my hv20?

thanks in advance

Joel M

2008 June 24th, 11:54

Are there any prosumer cameras out there that have a real shallow depth of field without the adapter? (Under 5k)

suncat20

2008 June 24th, 12:32

I have a ton of canon ef lenses, what would be the best choice (considering price and quality) for either purchasing or making an adapter for my hv20?

thanks in advance

IMO, you should save up and get a Cinevate "Brevis". The images are truely incredible. It is, most likely, the one and only adapter you'll ever have to purchase. It can fit all camcorders (because you may not have just a HV20/30 forever). When Cinevate creates improvements, you just purchase the upgrade and add it to your Brevis to stay current. They have an entire community of users that are constantly problem solving and creating tips and tricks. This is a whole community of support to help new users.

Cpt.Comix

2008 June 24th, 17:51

Are there any prosumer cameras out there that have a real shallow depth of field without the adapter? (Under 5k)
not one. buy a red one. 18k - without lenses.

Erik Bien

2008 June 24th, 17:55

Are there any prosumer cameras out there that have a real shallow depth of field without the adapter? (Under 5k)

Just wait 'til next year (http://www.scarletuser.com/showthread.php?t=2) ... :hv20-smilie79:

Islandervideo

2008 July 5th, 21:32

sebipayne

2008 July 12th, 11:30

I'm thinking of building a 35mm DOF Adapter. I saw many posts about the achromat, but...
HV20ACHR1 has definitely the best image quality. However, i think it costs too much for me.
What's the best alternate for replacing this, with the best results?
Opteka HD 10x Macro lens? Someone said the Raynox DCR-250.
Opteka vs Rainox?
What do you recommend to avoid barrel distortion, etc...?

lotrfan

2008 July 16th, 22:40

Hook me up with an optical viewfinder and a 28-90mm zoom and I'll get a 35mm adapter for sure. Or just get me an optical viewfinder. That works too. :hv20-smilie81:

Reid Welch

2008 July 16th, 23:22

video examples from the makers of "affordable" ready-to-work DOF adapters.
http://downloads.letusdirect.com/video/

I won't be getting a DOF adapter in my foreseeable future.
It's a great tool, and takes me back to my childhood when I
futzed with antique folding Kodaks, 120 and 620 film and shallow depths of field
unless one stops the lens way down.

But look, if you have the need/desire and the bucks,
this is an excellent turnkey solution:
http://www.letusdirect.com/cart/letus35-mini.html

Note that the Letus35 (let-us-35) uses a small battery. Why?
a whole lot of shakin' goin' on
Read the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dof_adapter) about DOF adapters again to learn why they shake.
Amazingly neat package. If not for the cost.... I would be a sucker for the
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6658/letusminiprod01js2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Letus35 Mini--perfect for the HV20/30.
No image flip either.

CorbenT

2008 July 25th, 22:23

I would like to hear from anybody who has tested this 35mm adapter before

http://cgi.ebay.com/35mm-Adapter-with-Nikon-Mount-Film-Look-DOF-Footage_W0QQitemZ170243793733QQihZ007QQcategoryZ30 059QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You can get a step up ring to use it with the HV30. Its a spinning adapter and the image quality looks pretty good for its price

sebipayne

2008 July 27th, 23:01

...looks pretty good for its price

Yes, it looks good, and i saw it before, BUT! read the description carefully!

"Shipping is 12 weeks for this 35mm adapter in this auction only. Price is based entirely on shipping delivery time. If you want the fastest shipping, the price is $279."

12 weeks shipping...

bluesgeek

2008 July 27th, 23:32

TiE_Shepherd

2008 July 27th, 23:58

The whole thing sounds strange.

Indie filmmaker
Can only ship every 6-12 weeks or so when back from the road
Adapters have been in storage and they check them out (takes time)
Pay an extra $170 (2 and a half times the price of the unit) and they'll ship you the one they take with them on the road for shooting (leaving them with what?)

Seller ratings look good, though.

Yeah there is alot of fishy stuff in the listings that would have me worried. Someone here got one and then sold it a month or so later and he had to do alot of tweaking to get it usable.

I actually started a thread here, to try and keep all the info and questions about those ebay adapters in one place for everyone. Here's the link...

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=14204

maranelloboy05

2008 August 2nd, 11:21

I have a couple questions, I realize that the image is upside down using a DoF adapter, how does capturing the image work? Would I just need to flip it after I capture or does it somehow capture correctly and just show on the LCD upside down? I assume this is all manual focus, can I focus only the DoF adapter lens and not have to worry about focusing the actual HV30?

Thanks

jehugarcia

2008 August 6th, 12:45

How does a 35mm Dof adapter work? see THIS (http://www.vimeo.com/1280517)

How to Flip image on Lcd? Flip Hack (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=429)

HV20_Likeable

2008 August 11th, 19:29

I dont know if this is the right place to post this, but I was wondering if a 35mm DOF lens adapter can provide me a focus very much as u see in the recent film The Dark Knight, not because its a new film but its a fine example of what im after, also what ive noticed when using them, even when having ur subject in perfect focus, compared to one without having the lens, it will still remain alittle soft, and as with the examples below show, they are static shots but they are all and out focused and sharp:

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/Example1-1.png
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/Example2-1.png

but from what ive experimented and vidoes ive seen, inorder to obtain a good selective focusing on an object, the camera has to be quite still, thus if the camera panned forward or away, including the object itself, the object will itself be out of focus, and i was wondering is their a way to keep the selective focus on the object with everything else being blurred, quite much like this, when the character is at distance and walks towards closer to the camera:

Distanced:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/Example3-1.png

Nearer:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/Example4-1.png

i could be wrong in a couple of places, but i was hoping someone here could just help clear this up for me. i am new here, i would really appreciate it :D

David

2008 August 11th, 19:47

what ive noticed when using them, even when having ur subject in perfect focus, compared to one without having the lens, it will still remain alittle soft, and as with the examples below show, they are static shots but they are all and out focused and sharp

A 35mm adapter isn't going to be as sharp as actually shooting 35mm film. You're videotaping a moving frosted piece of material that has an image being rear-projected onto the other side. You're also probably focusing with a fixed camcorder lens through at least one, and maybe two, other lenses before you even get to that moving frosted piece of material. When you're shooting 35mm film, you've got one lens and it's focusing the image onto a piece of film without all that other crap in between.

i was wondering is their a way to keep the selective focus on the object with everything else being blurred, quite much like this, when the character is at distance and walks towards closer to the camera

Yup, it's called a 1st AC or a Focus puller You keep the selective focus on the object by having somebody change the focus on your lens while you're shooting. The job of the 1st AC is primarily that of riding the lens to make sure the subject stays in focus. You can do this yourself while you're shooting, but it's tough to be nearly as accurate as having somebody else do it.

eplayerd

2008 August 11th, 19:57

@ HV20_Likeable,

yeah you can rotate the focus to follow the action thus giving you that effect. It takes some practice for each shot but eventually you get.

Back with film you usually consult charts to calculate exact DOF/Focus. you could probably use the same charts for a 35mm adapter though. . .

franssu

2008 August 11th, 19:59

I think the best way to understand what can and can't be done to emulate the "film look" with or without a DOF adapter would be to really understand how movies are shot. What is in a real cine camera, how do professionnal HD and 2K/4K cameras work, the differences with an HV20 etc...
When you understand what goes on on a movie shooting very piece of gear (DOF adapters, focus follow add-ons etc...) become that much easier to understand.

HV20_Likeable

2008 August 13th, 12:58

35mm adapter isn't going to be as sharp as actually shooting 35mm film

isnt there any way? i take it this is a slight disadavantage of using a 35mm lens and adapter? maybe using an acromat (bad spelling) lens might help get that sharpness or an original image?

Yup, it's called a 1st AC or a Focus puller You keep the selective focus on the object by having somebody change the focus on your lens while you're shooting.

oh i see, so you definately have to adjust the focus while shooting, i thought u can adjust the focus in a way that everything is blurred and that your subject (at a certain distance) is only in focus.

Back with film you usually consult charts to calculate exact DOF/Focus.

is this were u get people with a measuring tape and measure the distance of ur object and where the camera lens is? also, where can i obtain this chart?

P.S. Images resized and first 2 examples converted to RGB for better viewing of what to expect if watching it on the telly :D

CycleWriter

2008 August 13th, 13:08

DOF is not solely dependent on aperture and shutter speed. Perspective has a lot to do with it and that involves camera to subject distance and subject distance to background, as well. I suggest you read up on perspective, circles of confusion, camera placement, DOF and other basic photography techniques to get a better understanding of how DOF can be controlled. A 35mm adapter is just one way of achieving it with a video camera.

HV20_Likeable

2008 August 13th, 13:22

i do know alittle bit about perspective, cause i have Photoshop CS3 and do perspective corrections on images as well, also when im deshaking footage, perspective can be abit of a problem for others as their cameras has more obvious distortions (mainly from cheap camcorders).

and again, i have done abit on reading and watching how DOF works, but asi mentioned, is there anyway to get a sharp picture (like without a DOF) when having ur object in focus? and maybe an achromat as i said?
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/achromat_comparison-1.jpg

David

2008 August 13th, 14:03

isnt there any way? i take it this is a slight disadavantage of using a 35mm lens and adapter? maybe using an acromat (bad spelling) lens might help get that sharpness or an original image?

Again, you just have to picture how things are working. Everytime you put a piece of low cost material between your lens and the film/CMOS/CCD, you're going to degrade the image. And these 35mm adapters are not only adding a bunch of glass between the lens and the sensor, but also a frosted piece of material that's not even transparent.

Think about your TV. Are you going to get a clearer picture looking straight at your TV or a clearer picture by taping a piece of frosted plastic over the front and trying to look through it?

Additionally, the lenses we're using on these 35mm adapters are mass produced, low cost, consumer products. Even when shooting 16mm film at the low end I'm using a lens that cost at least $1,500. When shooting 35mm you are easily using a set of prime lenses that cost $5,000+ per lens. You're not using $100 lenses.

oh i see, so you definately have to adjust the focus while shooting, i thought u can adjust the focus in a way that everything is blurred and that your subject (at a certain distance) is only in focus.

You're asking a different question here. The answer is yes, you CAN set the lens in a way that everything is blurred except for your subject at a certain distance. But that's not the original question. Your original question and example was for a subject that was NOT at a certain distance. Your subject was walking towards the camera and therefore you must follow them because the "certain distance" is changing everytime they move.

HV20_Likeable

2008 August 13th, 14:13

i see, that makes things slightly clearer, and i understand what u mean, but does that mean, all ground glass or focusing screens are frosted? or u can get transparent ones? i dont know all types of GG's, maybe expensive ones?

probably i didnt make my question clearer before, or i might have typed it in correctly, but both answers helped incredibly :) i used those images because the subject was away at a certain distance and was still in focus, very much even when he was walking up all towards the camera. If it can be done, how is it done then may i ask?

CycleWriter

2008 August 13th, 14:26

You're asking a different question here. The answer is yes, you CAN set the lens in a way that everything is blurred except for your subject at a certain distance. But that's not the original question. Your original question and example was for a subject that was NOT at a certain distance. Your subject was walking towards the camera and therefore you must follow them because the "certain distance" is changing everytime they move.

And is a perfect example of perspective. The range of DOF in that shot does not change. It is probably about 6" in front of and 12" behind the subject (DOF is almost always shorter in front than behind). But as his perspective changes, ie distance from/to the background/camera, the level of bluriness of everything outside the range of DOF changes. This is the concept of circles of confusion. There are ways to achieve much of this without the use of a DOF adapter, which, as you pointed out, is just more apparatus in front of the lens to degrade the picture. Basically, most people using a 35mm adapter are willing to trade some picture quality for more control over DOF. You can't have both at this level, that's what a pro camera is for.

HV20_Likeable

2008 August 13th, 14:35

i am pretty sure u can achieve this picture quality using a HV20 and using a DOF adapter, probably with a few tips and tricks, any way possible? except for post-processing? :D

by the way, does the size of a GG matter? like bigger or smaller?

David

2008 August 13th, 15:11

And is a perfect example of perspective. The range of DOF in that shot does not change. It is probably about 6" in front of and 12" behind the subject

That's not accurate. The distance to the subject and the size of the aperture are the two big things in determining what your DOF is going to be. You will have much shallower DOF when your subject is closer to the camera than when your subject is further away and it doesn't have anything to do with perspective. As the subject gets closer, the amount of space that falls within the DOF range is much much less than when the subject is far away.

CycleWriter

2008 August 13th, 15:25

That's not accurate. The distance to the subject and the size of the aperture are the two big things in determining what your DOF is going to be.Go back and read my post a few back. I said DOF is not solely a function of aperture or shutter speed and that perspective is also involved.
You will have much shallower DOF when your subject is closer to the camera than when your subject is further away and it doesn't have anything to do with perspective. It doesn't? Perspective is the relationship between the viewer (camera), the subject (what's in focus), and the surroundings (the background and foreground). Do you think it is something else?
As the subject gets closer, the amount of space that falls within the DOF range is much much less than when the subject is far away.So how is perspective not involved?:hv20-smilie01:

HV20_Likeable

2008 August 16th, 10:40

anyone at all? :(

so there is no way to obtain the original sharp picture as if there was no DOF adapter attached? like i said, would an achromat help?

gregtay67

2008 August 17th, 08:33

But there is a way. I made a DIY adapter and selling it now in the trade and exchanges section. http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=14530
I did a test with a test chart and got an almost identical resolution. Just lesser contrast with the adapter.

nigel101

2008 August 18th, 17:11

I understand vibrating is nosy but doesn't show grain/scratches. And static does but is manual.

Which is best??

Anyone got a good simple manual for making a 35mm Static HV20. Which ones the best one.

leteeci

2008 August 21st, 04:48

Why are you guys asking for what you can not pay for?

I am sure that you can produce sharp picture like that with using Letus Ultimate, but would you attach Canon HV20 on it?

If you have HV20/HV30 and no posibilities to buy another camera in a year or two, just buy DIY adapter or Letus mini, a nice set of lenses and try to film as much as possible..

Picture on those adapters is just a little bit less sharp than in camera itself but it's picture is farr better than bare camera..

Name me director that started shooting with 35mm film camera just at start..

Decades ago they started at super8 or s16 and with time they step further..

Few years ago we had mostly SD.. it is like only 720 x 576 pixel ( in Europe ).. Now that you have HDV seems like that isn't enought anymore..

Don't let that lack of latest and best equipment stop you on filming..

Cheers..

:)

HV20_Likeable

2008 August 26th, 22:38

So from the sample images i posted, can it be possible to acheive them results with a Depth-of-field adapter?

huggster

2008 September 2nd, 11:53

I think Dof Adapters are great but it won't stop me filming if I dont have one - I have seen enough camera work on my favourite works from the 60s and 70s which simply used good composition and the like.

This was shot on grainy videotape but is still considered a cult classic. In fact, it now makes it more creepy:

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=5356

ctr519

2008 September 17th, 22:14

Only the greatest lens EVER!!!!

koolpenguin89

2008 September 17th, 22:16

Only the greatest lens EVER!!!!

Huh?

Dylan

Laxfright89

2008 September 19th, 01:12

Can anybody recommend a specific 35mm adapter worth buying?

Braceface

2008 September 19th, 07:34

The Jag is affordable, and is clearly becoming one of the best on the market. Check it out under the trade section of this forum.

super_claret

2008 September 27th, 05:38

Hi everyone, I'm a newbie (please be gentle)!

A quick question to see if i've understood this correctly, if, for example, I attached a 17-40mm zoom lens via the DOF adapter, the camera would be recording the image projected onto the ground glass screen? So if I were using the 17mm end of the zoom it would give me the same viewable area as it would in a 35mm camera due to the GG being 36x24mm?

I presume the HV20's zoom lens should be set to its widest setting (no zoom)?

What about quality of the recorded image? Do the cheaper DOF adapters give acceptable quality?

Thanks

Mark

luis

2008 December 4th, 09:47

Can anybody recommend a specific 35mm adapter worth buying?

I have the same question.

And, if possible make my own dof adapter with good quality or is too much job?

noodlelegs

2008 December 6th, 15:33

besides, who buys a 1000 dollar camera and doesn't understand the most basic concepts of photography?

me

gregtay67

2008 December 19th, 22:44

I have the same question.

And, if possible make my own dof adapter with good quality or is too much job?

I build the gt35pro series of 35mm adapters. The adapter has 20 over parts, some parts are made using my cnc mill. I have condensers in the adapter and power-on led light with power module. When all the parts are in stock it takes me about 5 hours to build one. Imagine if you don't know what parts exactly you need and there will be alot of experimentation. You might need about a month or two to get it correct. By that time you would have spent more money than the price of one of my adapters. I spent a bomb building my first prototype and second and third so now they are perfected.

billbruford

2008 December 21st, 09:29

got a message from someone who wanted some basic info and thought that i would post here in case there are newer people coming to the site and are overwhelmed at all the info all over this site.

(quote)
I am interested in getting a 35mm adapter for my hv20 that I can use for short indie films. I want to be able to swap out the lenses and get DOF.

This is somewhat new to me. I'm also going to be using a steadycam for alot of on the move shots. What type of 35mm setup would you recommend?
(quote)

okay the first thing is that you are looking for shallow DOF as the HV20 has plenty of deep DOF. with the HV20 alone you can get shallow DOF but you have to position the camera far back, zoom in to get it. DOF adapters also lose light because you are projecting the 35mm image onto a piece of static, vibrating or spinning ground glass. then the HV20 takes a picture of the ground glass.

next you can get a premade DOF adapter including TWONEIL (200 bucks), JENNZABEE (BJ35) or HANDY35 or a JAG35 or spend loads of bucks on a letus

check out twoneil on vimeo to see what people can do with his adapter. I always felt that the footage here was what got me into making my own.
DIY35mmPro Nikon E f1.8 on Vimeo

TwoneilHD comparison on Vimeo

http://www.vimeo.com/twoneil

as far as 35 mm lenses I recommend a selection f=1.8 50 mm lens is a good start.
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-50mm-1-8-Camera-Lens/dp/B00007E7JU

http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/ProductDetail.page?pid=2137

you can get a lens with an f of 1.4 or 1.2 but you have to be able to focus accurately.

which lens you buy depends on which DOF adapter you use. so if you get a DOF adapter with a canon mount get a canon lens. if you get a nikon mount DOF adapter then get a nikon lens. you can also get adapter rings from ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-to-Nikon-AI-Lens-Adapter-Brass-NEW_W0QQitemZ320301275124QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.virtualvillage.com/items/item.aspx?itemid=3590081&utm_source=baseusa&utm_medium=shopping&CAWELAID=190646867

the DOF adapter flips the image (unless it has a flip thing in it like a prism). you can either learn to shoot upside down which is okay

or you can use 3 dollars worth of mirrors like this
http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=12727&highlight=mirror+flip

or you can flip your whole rig with one of these

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=10852

or build your own using PVC pipe, aluminum, wood, etc.

you can also have someone install a flip hack like this

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/hdv2-canon-vixia-hv30-hv20-hv10/97165-hv20-lcd-flip-hack-35mm-dof-adapters.html

or you can get an external monitor (sony fx820) like this but you will have to also make some sort of mount
http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=12453&highlight=fx820

there are other monitors but search the threads.

AS FAR AS STEADYCAM IS CONCERNED i have been working on this issue myself recently and if you have any thoughts I would appreciate it. I built this
http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=8010

it takes about 1-2 days and a lot of work. you can also buy it for 100 bucks. it will not take the whole DOF rig and believe me i tried. I thought of trying to use the sony FX820 monitor as the counterweight but it still is too difficult to control. I think to use the whole DOF adapter thing as a steadycam you just have to use a vest and you still have the problem of focusing. another option is to buy a separate cam without DOF adapter instead of having to take your whole rig apart.

http://www.amazon.com/Sanyo-MPEG-4-Definition-Camcorder-Optical/dp/B000W9YXFM

this shoots 1080p and is 150 buck at walmart but people who are snooty might not be your friend if you get it
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=9208238

these mini type cameras can also be hooked up to a DOF adapter though (the camera is the the gray thing with SANYO written on it)
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachments/a/1906d1169988873-what-about-sanyo-hd1-35mm-dof-adapters-hd1-m2_01.jpg

you could also build this in 1 hour
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/

but you would need to do curls in the gym for at least 2 hours a day or carry 50 pounds of pesos in each arm at a poolside for a while to hold up the DOF rig plus monitor.

also, because you are attaching 35mm lenses to the end. they have manual focus which brings up the idea of using a follow focus or some thing that allows ou to control focus without moving the lens so much. the more you play with it, the harder it gets.

you can buy a follow focus ($1300 yeesh $849 wow)
http://www.adorama.com/CIRFF1560GD.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/559400-REG/Cavision_RFF1560GC_RFF1560GC_Dual_Wheel_Follow.htm l

make it out of legos
35mm DOF adapter HV20 motorised follow focus on Vimeo

make it out of roller blades
http://vimeo.com/groups/297/videos/1616370

you also might need a lens mount which you can make yourself so that the DOF doesnt break off the threads on your HV20 camera.

you can also try motorized pan a nd tilt
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/64399-REG/Bescor_MP101_MP_101_Motorized_Pan_Head.html

i havent tried this yet or crane motions
http://www.instructables.com/id/16-feet-pan-and-tilt-camera-crane-for-$60/

http://www.softweigh.com/video/diy.html

or dolly shots
YouTube - how to make a camera dolly

also, if you plan to do any panning or tilting motions with the camera, invest in a good tripod. velbon 7000, matthews m25 search the threads. also lens hood with french flag, rails, microphone, juicedlink or beach tek XLR adapter. lights. learn color correction. yeesh...

BB

FoolsCrow

2008 December 21st, 11:42

Wow thanks for all that info billbruford!

I came across this cheap make it yourself 35 mmlens adapter things majig....many may have already seen it but for your interest...

YouTube - cheapest 35 mm DOF adapter

billbruford

2008 December 21st, 13:28

I love the shots that guy used and the music. it just goed to show what creativity can do more that a fancy adapter.

thanks for the post!
bb

Zephyrize

2008 December 24th, 13:53

wow billbruford, nice summary of all the essential infos! Thx!

I also googled this* article which basically EXPLAINS the fundamentals of 35 mm for those who want to UNDERSTAND the physics behind the adapter before trying to build their own.
*http://dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=98071

Now I have a question : The GG/Focusing Screen (they both mean the same thing right?) has to be at EXACT focal length of the chosen lens... so basically you CAN'T build the adapter before knowing which lens you want to use? So it also mean that if you want to let's say change from a 50mm lens to a 200mm lens, you have to extend the length of the adapter?
In other words, the length of the adapter is directly dependent to which lens you're using?

Oh and talking about steadicams, it has to actually suport rails when using in conjunction with a 35mm adapter... that's kind of hard to build.

sfartukh

2008 December 26th, 11:57

Look at this

http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/dof/index.htm

Zephyrize

2008 December 28th, 17:37

Look at this

http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/dof/index.htm

oh thx that was useful to understand even more the basis; but it still haven't answered my question..

Erik Bien

2008 December 28th, 18:00

Now I have a question : The GG/Focusing Screen (they both mean the same thing right?) has to be at EXACT focal length of the chosen lens... so basically you CAN'T build the adapter before knowing which lens you want to use?

Not quite: it has to be at the same flange focal distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance) as the film plane is from your chosen lens manufacturer's mount (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_mount).

Zephyrize

2008 December 29th, 11:29

Not quite: it has to be at the same flange focal distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance) as the film plane is from your chosen lens manufacturer's mount (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_mount).

ooh right, that makes more sense..
gotta take a look into these. Thanks!

uneon

2009 March 9th, 04:57

is the user Worley on this forum the same guy who made the 35mm adapter for "50 people one question documentary?" if so - how do i get in touch wtih him?

Thanks! YA! BPEACE!

Down&OutDesigns

2009 March 23rd, 02:47

35mm..

i understand what 35mm adapter does..

but ive been trying to find out differences between spin.. vibrate.. and exactly what are the benefits of using a 35mm adapter..

if you can add a wide angle to an adapter and all that good jazz! :]

Burtoe

2009 March 23rd, 03:10

this is gonna turn ugly ....

Rumpelgeist

2009 March 23rd, 03:16

i understand what 35mm adapter does... what are the benefits of using a 35mm adapter?
Isn't this self-contradictory?

Dr. Benway

2009 March 23rd, 03:19

Hi, please do a search for 35mm adapter/adaptor/35mm footage/WA/Raynox.

You can use a WA 35mm lens with an adaptor but you will run into inherent limitations depending on which adaptor is used. The very nature of adaptors precludes them from benefiting from true WA lenses.

35mm adaptors are used to frustrate the hell out of their owners, to control depth of field (please search for depth of field both here and by using Google) and to impart a particular aesthetic.

Here's the next step along the Yellow Brick Road:

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?p=194987

Erik Bien

2009 March 23rd, 03:28

i understand what 35mm adapter does..

but ive been trying to find out differences between spin.. vibrate..

The basic types are named for what they do with the focusing screen: in static adapters, the GG doesn't move. But that can reveal the texture of the screen, so vibrating types jiggle it and spinners spin it, hopefully ensuring that the camera can't "see" the screen grain.

exactly what are the benefits of using a 35mm adapter

Their only purpose is to allow you to mount lenses intended for 35mm cameras on your camcorder. If you already have a quiver of fairly fast interchangeable lenses for an SLR somebody probably makes an adapter that they'll fit, otherwise you'll need to buy at least one lens (and unless you're the next Ozu (http://www.a2pcinema.com/ozu-san/home.htm), content to shoot everything on a 50mm, probably several).

Down&OutDesigns

2009 March 23rd, 04:24

Isn't this self-contradictory?

No.. i understand you can get a better depth of field with a 35mm adapter..

but are there more benefits.. better quality visually compared to a naked lens..

a wider view ( idk if any lens can do that )

i just dont get way so many people want to use a 35mm adapter so much..

dminor

2009 March 23rd, 04:37

Down&OutDesigns

2009 March 23rd, 04:55

Wide angle lenses give a wider field of view. You don't need a 35mm DOF adapter to use a wide angle lens, but you can use a wide angle lens with a 35mm adapter. Personally, I just bought a 28mm lens to use with my Jag35 DOF adapter. I'll use those for my wide shots and the 50mm for my regular shots.

The big draw to the DOF lens is that a lot of people feel that shallow depth of field gives a more film like image.

see i can do all that with After effects.. may take some more time.. but since im extremely good with AE.. it'll save money in the long run.. untill i absolutely cant spend that much time in post..

ok this may sound extremely stupid!!! :hv20-smilie51: i apologize now..

but the lower the MM the wider of a shot it will be?? and vice versa the higher MM the smaller field of view?

Dr. Benway

2009 March 23rd, 05:05

...the lower the MM the wider of a shot it will be?? and vice versa the higher MM the smaller field of view?

If your question is one about field of view, yes. A 20mm lens will 'see' more than a lens with a 600mm focal length. Think of the 600mm as bringing your hands together in front of you at 5 to and 5 past the hour; and opening your arms at the 10 and 2 o'clock positions as the 20mm lens.

Down&OutDesigns

2009 March 23rd, 05:22

If your question is one about field of view, yes. A 20mm lens will 'see' more than a lens with a 600mm focal length. Think of the 600mm as bringing your hands together in front of you at 5 to and 5 past the hour; and opening your arms at the 10 and 2 o'clock positions as the 20mm lens.

well then then i dont understand exactly how more light WOULDNT be allowed in.. if your looking at more of an area.. your getting the light from that area as well....

or is it simply because the way the glass is set up on the lens itself?

mactreouser

2009 March 23rd, 11:58

Hi, i actually trying to DIY the 35mm adapter..but in the stage of very beginning...

2 question:~

a) Focusing Screen (GG). s'ld i buy for better result? i saw some tips and trick to build my own, but steps seems not as simple as i think...any recommendation of easier stuff to build the GG?? say, UV ring, 1 of the side screen sanded by sand-paper? is this the right way to build a Focusing Screen??

a.1) what's the purpose of Focusing Screen? making bokeh ? or better DOF? or???

b) WHAT STUFF is inside the adaptor (Tube) to rotate the image we are focusing? do you get what i mean? say, if you hold the SLR lens and look inside it, you'll found that the image is FLIPED one, isn't it? so...in the Tube of the 35mm adapter what is the stuff to tweak/rotate the image so that the Camcorder c'ld able to capture the right image?

Hope this clear...haaa...thanks ya!!!

kenkyusha

2009 March 23rd, 14:18

a.1) what's the purpose of Focusing Screen? making bokeh ? or better DOF? or???
Without the screen there is no surface upon which the image from the adapter can be 'seen' by the camera.

[snip]inside it, you'll found that the image is FLIPED one, isn't it?
No. The image appears on the GG the same way it comes in through the lens- inverted. There are a number of threads on how, why and if to build an adapter, including some simple but essential ways of understanding of the physics involved- please seek those out.

Be well,
Jigme

-Rogue5-

2009 March 23rd, 14:54

I'd say that even when you're going for a super deep depth of field plane like video, with an adapter it looks inherently more like film than your stock camcorder. I don't know why, but it definitely makes it looks less video-y.

The vibration and spinning, as Erik said, are used to get rid of specks of dust that will inevitably end up on your focus screen (the main part of a DOFadapter). Vibrating adapters literally shake the focus screen back and forth so the camera can't actually focus on these tiny specks of dust (think of setting your phone to vibrate...) and a spinning adapter spins the focus screen around to do the same thing (the focus screen of a spinning adapter looks almost exactly like clear Compact Disc; you turn it on and it spins and you capture the image off of that spinning clear CD).

Spinning adapters are better for high-shutter speed and, as such, for slow motion. However, I think it's much harder to obtain really high quality from a DIY spinning adapter as there are many more potential problems.

I don't know what your background is, but unless you know how to light a scene and have the lights to light it, I'd say you test before you buy/build (if at all possible.) Personally I really love DOFadapters, I just hate how much light they require to pull a clean image out of. Really... it's a lot... you need to shoot hte secen as if you were shooting on film -- great for learning, not so great for actually getting things done (it's more expensive and time consuming).

-Rogue5-

Atnas

2009 March 23rd, 15:30

see i can do all that with After effects.. may take some more time.. but since im extremely good with AE.. it'll save money in the long run.. untill i absolutely cant spend that much time in post..

I think you are gonna have a very tough time doing that in ae, you would have to rotoscope all elements and blur them induvidually, might be possible on one shot, but I think you should, give it up. Unless you have some idea I haven't thougt of.

mactreouser

2009 March 23rd, 23:50

c'ld you guys point to me some useful link to setup a very SIMPLE 35mm adapter?

b0rderman

2009 April 6th, 16:19

i know this must have been covered somewhere but...

I've never physically been around a 35mm adapter so I don't know the answer to this question:

Why is it SOOOO hard to keep the focusing screen clean? Is it not sealed within the adapter between two other pieces? Can't you just get a clean screen and then seal it between two UV filters if it isn't already 'sealed'?

I am sure this is a dumb question if you've got a 35 adapter but I've never seen one in person.

Halsu

2009 April 6th, 16:29

Why is it SOOOO hard to keep the focusing screen clean? Is it not sealed within the adapter between two other pieces? Can't you just get a clean screen and then seal it between two UV filters if it isn't already 'sealed'?

Theoretically, yes. In practice, it's surprisingly hard to keep it clean when making the adapter. Also, though the filters reduce the amount of dust that gets in the adapter, the setups are hardly water tight. Some dust specs will eventually make their way to the screen.

b0rderman

2009 April 6th, 16:38

ok, thanks

justinisloco

2009 April 12th, 22:32

So im just going to ask my question here because my other post got locked, although I was asking a legitimate question based on user experience, and i was told to "read the FAQs and stickies (which I have, and this is proof)

anyway, with that said...
Im on a tight budget, and im looking into 2 different adapters,
the jag35pro
or
the iKord V4
I have heard some mixed reviews on the jag35, but some good ones (but very few) on the ikord

I am new to all of this, but they are both in a small budget, and to practice with for now until I can afford a letus. Hoping to get some first hand experience from people who have used these, i know the ikord is a static adapter, to clean it, would it be a pain? anything a can of air couldn't do?

Thanks

FOR THER RECORD
I KNOW what a 35mm adapter is, and how it works, im new to these names. Im not asking how they work or what they do, simply asking if you have had these brands of adapters, could you tell me your experience on them? If my thread gets unlocked, which seems unlikely, you could post the answers there, since that thread seemed more appropriate to respond to answers too than this thread, which is about WHAT DOF adapters are

michaelbak

2009 April 12th, 23:19

I made a long article on another forum about this.
http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=22348

jasonbogen

2009 April 22nd, 10:37

dude.... use the search function. i don't mean to sound rude... but holy crap. there are millions and billions of threads exactly like this one. you can easily wiki or google it too. besides, who buys a 1000 dollar camera and doesn't understand the most basic concepts of photography?

it seems like everyday people are getting dumber.

You are so brilliant. This post is so idiotic that I just had to register and reply even though it is 2 years old. Since you are so brilliant maybe it would occur to you that if there were millions and billions of threads exactly like this, it would be a wonder anybody learns anything. I (and I am sure many others) found this thread by Googling for more information about using 35mm lenses with the HV20. Why? Because I am considering getting one and would like to learn how to make better looking movies. The point is, we aren't all film studies majors here. The prices of cameras like this are so low that many of us regular people are looking to take this up as a hobby now. If you are too much of a film snob to reply to us noobs, then just don't. Thankfully most people are not like you and actually help those of us just starting out learn the basics. Sorry if we missed the notice that said you had to be at a certain level to post. Certainly based on the title of the thread you should have known this was not going to be one for someone like you to answer (by that I am referring to your lack of patience and courtesy, not your knowledge). By the way, don't lie, you did mean to sound rude.

VideJo

2009 April 22nd, 10:57

Hi!
This is the person, who happened to initiate this thread in the naive situation of a beginner. Within one single page of the thread I collected enough knowledge to know what a 35mm adaptor is meant for.
So you do not have to register to find the pot of gold (on the first page) and the persons that added another ignorent posting, without making the effort of reading the first page is a xxxx (take your pick).

mintay

2009 May 8th, 18:26

Hey! Dust on a static adapter looks SOOOO amazing (IMO of course) check this out Praktica DVC 5,2 + Static DOF adapter test on Vimeo

mintay

2009 May 8th, 18:49

Despite what I said before, I saw footage from vibrating adapters and feel reluctant when it comes to buying one. All the footage is shaky because of the motor. How to prevent that?

pendoo1

2009 July 8th, 09:25

OK, i just got an Encenima 35mm Adapter.
I love the result, but i am having 2 problems..
1) The Flip screen, How can that be fixed?
i have a protable dvd player frmo Accurain , it has an AV and E-port outlet.

2) i atttach the adapter with f1.8II lens from Canon., results are nice when focus, but when i try to zoom In or out, it just get outta focus and stays out of focus even if i try to fix fixing the focus manually with my Cann lens.
i belive i have to keep the zoom to to all the way out and not mess with zoom at all....any suggesions?

thanks

CorbenT

2009 July 8th, 16:37

1) The Flip screen, How can that be fixed?
i have a protable dvd player frmo Accurain , it has an AV and E-port outlet.

You need to go down to your local electronics shop and purchase a 3.5mm to female RCA cable and then a female to female adapter. This will allow you to use either the hv30's supplied composite or component cables.

i atttach the adapter with f1.8II lens from Canon., results are nice when focus, but when i try to zoom In or out, it just get outta focus and stays out of focus even if i try to fix fixing the focus manually with my Cann lens.
i belive i have to keep the zoom to to all the way out and not mess with zoom at all....any suggesions?

You have to remember that the HV30 is only there to focus on a focussing screen which is housed inside the 35mm adapter. Now of course, if you zoom in or out using the hv30, you will most likely lose focus as a result.

lotrwackjob

2009 August 1st, 18:56

so I watched a video explaining 35mm adapters, and the guy kept saying that you need an achromat, because it enlarges the ground glass, so that it fills most of the screen, and reduces vignetting, He said it works like a macro lens, so woulds a macro lens work, for enlarging the screen? what would be the draw backs of using it?

Also, I keep hearing about how much vignetting some adapters have, and how little others have, but can you zoom in far enough with the camera lens so that there is none, or will that effect the image?

Just some things I need to know before my adapter arrives. thanks.

morteym

2009 August 16th, 12:10

I have no experience with dof-adapters yet but I think you can zoom in as fare as you want but you will loose alot of picture. I guess you can compensate with the lense or the distanse you're filming at to a sertain degree but if you compare i.e 50mm lense with a 85mm, zooming (croping) won't really be the same as using 85mm instead of 50mm because they give a different look (background vs foreground aspect ratio).

LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS

2009 August 16th, 14:33

the achromat is a good thing, not only does it help you get rid of the vignetting but it also corrects chromatic aberration and barrel distortion. You can still get decent footage WITHOUT an achromat lens, but only under certain conditions; with an achromat attached you help your camera lens get a better focus on the ground glass, especially on that "sweet spot"

I purchased first a static adapter without achromat and had some practice with it, then I found out about the achromat and bought it, thus upgrading my adapter.. it works great !

and as for static or vibrating, simply a matter of choice : do you want more or less grain? that's all there's to it... I personally prefer a little grain, since that's one of the reasons I bought the dof adapter, to make it look more like a grainy and smooth footage, not so surgically precise as hd could be through the naked lens :-)

you can also have diff focusing screens, 5,9 microns, etc. that means the grain will show up more or less... as I said, purely a stylistic choice

Erik Bien

2009 August 16th, 14:54

Actually there's a practical difference between vibrating and static types depending upon shooting conditions: because the focusing screen moves at relatively high speed, spinners can typically support much tighter apertures and faster shutter speeds than vibrators before revealing the grain of the screen, but they also tend to squander more light. Shooting action sports in bright sunlight IMHO the advantage goes to the spinner, while I'd rather have a vibrating model in most 24p interior/night exterior narrative shooting situations.

NoxNoctus

2009 August 16th, 16:22

Quick question. Is there any downside to getting an adaptor fitted with a larger achromat versus smaller one, when using a smaller cam?

Say for instance my HF10 with it's 37mm filter size, and getting a 52mm stepup for something like a Handy35. The reason I ask is for if I eventually upgrade to the HFS series or the like.

LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS

2009 August 20th, 08:58

well the larger achromat is kinda overkill for a small camera , the extra diameter is just wasted on it; you should get an achromat that has a diameter close to the one your camera can actually record, IMHO

since you plan to upgrade, keep the small achromat anyways, might come in handy or you could also sell it on ebay... (I guess when you upgrade you would be selling the small camer as well and if not, then the small achromat will prove itself useful again hehe)

for you 37mm filter size camera 40mm or 52mm should be fine, though... the 72mm cinevate achromat or such is what I'd refer to as too LARGE hehe

Redsandro

2009 August 25th, 06:53

Is an achromat effectively also a macro lens?

Can't you use the achromat to counter achromatic errors in normal non-dof-adapter shots because it's also a macro-lens? Or does one need both a macro lens and an achromat for the (better) DOF adapter?

LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS

2009 August 25th, 07:14

the achromat IS a macro lens as well... the opteka works superb and it does correct chromatic aberrations and barrel distortion, it totally rocks !

Redsandro

2009 August 25th, 07:25

Ah, thanks!

I was hoping that I could use it on my DSLR as well to counter chromatic error but since it's a macro lens it won't work.

Is it possible to make an achromat that does not change optics apart from colorshifting?

LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS

2009 August 25th, 10:35

hmmm dunno man, I'm not very knowledgeable in optics to be honest...

websterek

2009 August 28th, 08:47

Anyone hear something about Viicolor Adapter http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370248899936? It's really cheap vibrating adapter witch achromat. On ebay it's look really great.
Some opinion? I need to buy adapter 35mm for small money, this will be a good choice? How do you think?

ReLogic Studios

2009 September 8th, 08:53

I see that the HV20ACHR1 is back in stock again. On the site it states that you need to use 2 extension tubes to get a distortion free image and edge to edge sharpness. This would necessary for all 35mm adapters(I own a JAG35PRO)?

alfa

2009 September 8th, 09:09

i have this achromat and i use it only with 1 n°3 ring and i don't think i have distortion.
bayonet ring >> ring n°1 >> ring n°3 >> ring n°1 with condenser inside >> step up to 55mm >> zeiss achromat
my last test http://vimeo.com/alfazzz/videos

John Araki

2009 September 9th, 14:06

Have a few (basic) questions, putting together a diy adapter:

1. Image Stabilization (in camera) is off, right?

2. Focal Flange Distance: Do I want the distance as measured to the lens side of the GG, the camera side of the GG, or somewhere within the thickness of the GG?

Thanks,

John

John Araki

2009 September 12th, 13:17

Figured it out:
1. Off
2. Distance from flange to the edge of the GG.

Redsandro

2009 October 12th, 08:43

I cannot find the post or topic back but someone recommended getting a set of Nikon extension tubes for the adapter. It has three parts of screwable tube and two caps.

But both the front and the end don't have screw threads. They have some kind of twist-an-inch (less actually) caps that are kind of loose. Unlike anything on all my other camera's.

How do you use this for a lens or attaching it to a focus screen? I don't want to glue the lens, because that makes it uncompatible with the SLR camera it goes with. I cannot glue a ring to the caps that came with either, because the caps are too lose. Maybe I can glue some random lensfitting ring in the cap and glue the cap to the tube, but it seems like a one-shot must-work solution so I thought I'd ask you people.

I thought I'd glue the focus screen in the back cap, but same story. The cap is too loose, and if I'd glue it, I wouldn't be able to ever update the focus screen to something that vibrates or rotates.

sirjoe

2009 October 12th, 20:14

I'm not sure I quite understand you, but, the front and back of the nikon extension tubes are nikon mounts. You need to glue the focusing screen 46.5 mm from the nikon mount inside your tubes.

Not sure how you would mount it there, with the canon screens you can use a 55mm uv which fits snugly inside.

Redsandro

2009 October 13th, 07:58

Ah yes that's it. I must have nikon mounts. Are there nikonmount to normal threads converter rings? Because I still need to screw a lens on top and an achromat on back.

I have a Pentacon 50mm and Industar 35mm lens I want to use and I think the thread diameter is 38mm but I first need to buy a proper ruler.

overstreet1983

2010 January 6th, 12:07

Well, correct me if I'm wrong... but didn't the 35mm adapters originate in Germany? Not the United States?

But, anyway... everything else aside, I'm kind of getting sick with the whole 35mm frame quest. People spend more time bulking their camera up with the latest gadgets, rather than focusing on making their stories the best they possibly can.

You set the style of your film in the first couple scenes. If your style doesn't match the basic Hollywood style, you may get a mental note from the viewer. But, after those first couple scenes... guess what... the style will become invisible as long as your story is good. People will sit through anything if the story is good. People sat through movies made with 35mm film, they've sat through movies made with 16mm and 8mm film, they've sat through films made with the first miniDV cameras, Hi-8 cameras... anything you can imagine.

Stop wishing for the future, and live in the moment. Use what you've got available to you. Come up with a good story. Unless of course you're just a DP kind of guy... then find yourself a GREAT writer and director to team up with.

The Crowing

2010 January 6th, 13:05

I like bulking up my rig. A stock HV30 is going to be laughed at on location. I film band videos and such, if i come to a shoot with a stock HV30 the band is going to rethink the deal. There are reasons for adding to the rig, most of them lie in wanting the best out of the camera.

detectivesoap

2010 February 18th, 20:30

Three reasons. Andre Bazin, Jean Renoir, and Orson Welles. Shallow DOF is a stylistic choice, not a necessity. It is what's in. And honestly, Having your background constantly blurry (or foreground) can be annoying to some viewers. There's this weird thing called mise-en-scene that people sometimes forget about...greater DOF meaning greater depth in ideas, images, etc.

This kind of stuff happens when tech geeks forget about the point of the camera and put the tech mimicry before the narratives and ideas.

That said, I just got the focus ring from IRV... check out this vid on youtube...can't paste for some reason..um look up irv design focus wheel review, and you'll see why that's good enough for me!

I don't mean to sound bitter, I just wasted a lot of time being jealous of these things until I realized it's not a must have, and for the kinds of movies I want to shoot, it's not the appropriate style.

Jim E

2010 February 27th, 19:08

By and large, those are the people willing to undertake the expense, effort and added complexity of using 35mm adapters (and yes, the most common reason for doing so is to achieve "shallow depth of field," where focus can be sharp only where the filmmaker wants it to be).

Erik, I've wanted to ask this question of numerous people, numerous times since joining the forum, and it looks like it'll have to be you. Sorry.:hv20-smilie03:

I keep reading this thing about wide-angle 35mm lenses limiting the depth of field... but from my understanding of optics, the opposite is true. A wide angle lens will always give greater depth of field. A long focal length lens gives you a shallower depth of field.

I understand the HV40 has a lens of 61mm focal length. So adding a 35 mm lens surely makes it wider, and thus gives deeper depth of field!?

Obviously, this cannot be the case, otherwise nobody would be doing this modification and talking about the nice film look it gives etc... So, can you tell me what I'm missing here?

Thank you.

rhervag

2010 February 27th, 19:17

Jim E

2010 February 28th, 20:03

DOF adapters are for ***35mm still photography lenses*** in every wide, normal, telephoto focal lengths.
the shallower dof is a combination effect from optics (aperture & focal length) and sensor size.
the HV40 zoom lens (variable length) and small sensor make for a deeper dof by default.
so people started using old manual photo lenses to control such effects using all kinds of adapters.
hope that helps to clear your confusion.

Soooo, all these rigs I've seen here, with long tubes stuck to the front lens, and with the manual lens stuck to the front of that, are actually creating a kind of "telescope", or telephoto lens. Because a long tube with a lens at each end is, after all, a telescope. And telescopes inherently have very shallow DOFs. Is it that simple...?:)

Jim E

2010 February 28th, 22:01

Re my post above - please ignore, (edit button no longer available!)

I read the Wiki on this thing and I get it now. Needs an intermediate ground glass focussing screen, which the camera focusses on, and that screen has to vibrate to eliminate surface artifacts on the ground glass being filmed... nope, sounds like a backwards step to me.

debuys

2010 February 28th, 23:27

What you might be misunderstanding is that the 6.1-61mm focal length is on a smaller sensor. The 35mm equivalent is something like 37-375mm (I might need correction). You can get a shallow DoF on a naked HV30 if you have the space. I broke down and purchased an adapter and have enjoyed it a ton when it's not pissing me off.

And yes, it's a step backwards but for a good reason.

Jim E

2010 March 2nd, 04:07

Debuys, I got my photographic knowledge from the days of film cameras and I still can't quite get my head around the curious fact that depth of field can be affected by the size of the "gate", or, in the case of digital cameras, the sensor. To me, a 35mm focal length lens will throw a sharp image at a specific distance behind itself, and it shouldn't matter if you choose to "collect" that image with a small gate/sensor at that point or a large one - the inherent DOF should remain the same.

But clearly that's not the case and I believe it, even though I don't understand it.

In any case, I've had second thoughts about the adapters and am having a chat with Shigata. I may just cave yet!

Incidentally, what is it about the adapters that can piss off even an aficionado of adapters such as yourself?

cgbier

2010 March 2nd, 04:25

Seo

2010 March 2nd, 04:26

The difference isn't sensor size, but the change in lenses. A larger sensor means a longer focal length and a longer focal length means a larger aperture and a larger lens diameter. This decreases the diameter of the circle of confusion, the depth of focus, and therefore depth of field.

It's really quite simple when you wrap your head around it.

Jim E

2010 March 2nd, 04:45

Krute, check DOFmaster.com. There you'll find all the calculations to that issue.
I was shooting 6x7 and 35mm. The standard lens for my RB67 was 110mm. At f/4 I got about the same DOF as with my Nikkor 50mm at f/2.
The larger the sensor, the shallower DOF, the smaller, the deeper your DOF. For a deeper understanding, google for "circle of confusion"... aptly named on the first reading.

Aptly named, alright! Yes, I'll check that out, CG, thanks. In those days of old, I only used 35mm SLRs and occasionally a Twin lens Reflex. And I was self-taught. I never ever imagined that the larger the film format, the shallower the DOF it was capable of!

Talk about ignorant!:hv20-smilie08:

Seo

2010 March 2nd, 04:50

Once again, it's got nothing to do with the sensor size. It's the lens itself that changes it. Rip your point and shoot's lens off and stick it in front of a medium format camera and the DOF would not change.

Neaps

2010 March 14th, 13:15

So i had a look inside an old (but still working) Canon EOS 1000D and saw a ground glass. What if, i had a smaller, and broken digital camera and (if they have a gg, i have no idea) took the gg out so i could put it in a DIY 35mm adapter. Does that make sense? And do smaller digital camera's have ground glasses? Or am i just an idiot?

Seo

2010 March 15th, 05:05

Ground glass... probably the viewfinder? That's not worth it, you could just buy some ground glass off the market.

antman

2010 March 15th, 11:59

many people use the canon gg's in dof adapters, if you took it out you may be able to use it, as long as theirs no grids or patterns on it.

The digital cams have a sensor, not the same as a gg, no you can not use a sensor as a gg. Just buy a canon ees or ees focusing screen. or buy one from shigeta if you need one.

Shigeta

2010 March 15th, 13:02

Yes, if you are interested in a pretty cheap adapter, check out the Shig35 (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=33751) if you don't feel comfortable making it, I have an assembly service, or you can buy the adapter in whole.

plainfaced

2010 March 16th, 14:02

Ive got a Jag36ST coming in the mail.
I will be using it with 50mm and 28mm lens.
Do I need rod support - Shrigg Rigg? Or can I get away with no support?

Seo

2010 March 17th, 06:22

Get a rod support not only for peace of mind, but so you can use a follow focus. It might be possible to pull it off without rods, but it'll be a very precarious rig.

plainfaced

2010 March 22nd, 16:33

Sorry. Another question on the Jag35 - or any other adapter for that matter.

Do I set my HV40 for manual or auto focus?
If manual, Im gathering im focusing on the screen within the Jag35.
How do I make sure I focus correctly?

drapeama

2010 March 22nd, 16:46

Do I set my HV40 for manual or auto focus?
If manual, Im gathering im focusing on the screen within the Jag35.
How do I make sure I focus correctly?

1) Manual focus
2) You actually focus on the screen, right.
3) Half-press the photo button, if it's green (spot in the bottom of the screen), then your focus is good. If it's yellow, adjust it until you get a green one.

Erik Bien

2010 March 22nd, 17:19

When I've worked with the Brevis, I found it was usually easiest to remove the 35mm lens, turn off the vibrating motor, point the camera-adapter combo at a bright, evenly lit area like a wall or window and let the camera auto-focus on the texture of the ground glass screen. Then put the camera in manual focus, maybe even tape down the focus roller so you can't nudge it by accident.

The other adjustment that's quite critical is the distance from the back of the 35mm lens to the ground glass, known as the FFD ('Flange Focal Distance' or 'Flange Focal Depth'). Just how you make this adjustment varies from adapter to adapter, and many inexpensive ones don't allow you to adjust it at all: you just have to hope it was set correctly at the 'factory.'

plainfaced

2010 March 22nd, 18:07

1) Manual focus
2) You actually focus on the screen, right.
3) Half-press the photo button, if it's green (spot in the bottom of the screen), then your focus is good. If it's yellow, adjust it until you get a green one.
OK. before I saw the post below, I was trying to focus on something within range - With good results, I could then use the lens to focus on a different subject... I could not however get the little camera thing to turn green. Mine was always 'red'... Am I doing something wrong? Settings?

When I've worked with the Brevis, I found it was usually easiest to remove the 35mm lens, turn off the vibrating motor, point the camera-adapter combo at a bright, evenly lit area like a wall or window and let the camera auto-focus on the texture of the ground glass screen. Then put the camera in manual focus, maybe even tape down the focus roller so you can't nudge it by accident.'

OK. Will try this now.
How far away do I have to be from the wall/piece of paper? An inch or two? A foot? What am I looking for when focusing on the glass? Will It be the only thing that gains focus?

Erik Bien

2010 March 22nd, 18:11

Yeah, the idea is without a lens attached, everything past the ground glass will just be a blur, so the camera should be able to autofocus on the texture — that's why having a bright, even area (white ceiling, window, etc.) to aim at helps, the only thing the camera will be able to find and focus on is the texture of the GG itself.

Luckypants

2010 April 18th, 15:29

Hey guys - I have a couple of lenses for my SLR camera (Canon 40D) - I was wondering if I can use those with my HV20 somehow, and if so, what would be the right adapter to get for that. Thanks A lot guys!

Shigeta

2010 April 18th, 15:34

Yes, you need a 35mm adapter, like the Shig35 ;) (subtle advertising ftw)

drapeama

2010 April 18th, 15:43

(subtle advertising ftw)

subtle

cgbier

2010 April 18th, 17:05

Don't you need lenses with an aperture ring? Or do you guys only shoot wide open?

Seo

2010 April 19th, 05:37

It can be done by adjusting it on a DSLR, but that's a pain in the arse. As of now only the Redrock adapter can electronically adjust aperture.

PurpleCoat Productions

2010 April 28th, 14:18

If anybody is interested, I'm selling a 35mm Lens Adaptor at a price which I'm willing to negotiate. It was hand built in Brazil and in perfect condition; definately really useful for anybody who wants an adaptor thats much cheaper than the others out there on the market :)

Ratfink

2010 April 28th, 16:00

dawicka2

2010 August 9th, 13:50

Hi.

Quick 1st post question.

Despite the fact that my flip mino does not have a manual focus, will a dof adapter work with this camera?

Not worried about the physical connection (i will build a thing)....Technically will it work?

Extra time before grad school starts in 3 weeks... want one more summer project, because i will be finishing the downstairs bathroom this week.

Ib4 downstairs bathroom/toilet= this idea jokes.

Sarcasm appreciated.... just make sure there is an answer somewhere in there. :)

So far... gonna go with a handy 35 or this http://cgi.ebay.com/35mm-spinning-DOF-adapter-hv30-hv40-CANON-lens-/260647749486?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 and my girlfriends cannon 35mm lenses

ordered a 30.5 to 43mm ring, so ultimately can use this set up on an hv40 after messing with (or up) the flip.

john ny

dawicka2

2010 September 17th, 12:10

Please continue to disregard this brutally stupid question ^^^^^. :)

Didnt mean to kill this thread.

john ny

Erik Bien

2010 September 18th, 02:09

Hi john, and welcome to the forum!

I'm not sure if anyone has figured out how to mount a 35mm adapter to a Flip Mino, but with a fixed-focus lens it seems an unlikely candidate for such a modification.

BLP88

2010 September 30th, 14:19

OK i bought an HV20 off ebay and it came with a 35mm adapter and lens and I have NO IDEA what I'm looking at. It's got small square box with an OFF/ON switch on it. the lens says nikkor-s auto 1:1.4 f=50mm nippon kogaku . the lower level that twist has numbers that say 16 11 8 5.6 4 2.8 2 1.4 The top layer has feet/m with numbers on it. WHAT EXACTLY am I looking at and is there any thread someone can link me to to find out. I searched 35mm adapter here and came to this thread! Please help... I was on ebay to buy a hv20 and I ended up winning auction with one that came with 35mm adapter and lens

Khaver

2010 September 30th, 14:39

BLP88

2010 September 30th, 15:56

A 35mm adapter is a device that lets you use lenses for 35mm SLR/DSLR cameras with your HV20. Inside the adapter is a "ground glass focusing screen". The 35mm lenses attached to the front of the adapter will focus its image onto the ground glass. You use the aperture settings (the part that twists with the 16, 11, 8... on it) to control the brightness of the image it projects into the adapter. The feet/m part controls the focus. Your HV20 attaches to the other end of the adapter and, with the help of a macro lens, focuses on the image projected on the ground glass. The little switch on the box is either to spin the ground glass plate or vibrate it so the grain of the ground glass will not be seen.

The reason people use these adapters is because the larger lenses create a narrower depth of focus (You focus on an object and the foreground and background will be out of focus). This gives your footage a "Hollywood" look to it.

Just be aware that with these adapters, your subjects need to be well lit because with all that extra glass you're putting in front of the HV20's lens, you're cutting out a lot of light.

Thank You very much for your reply. I knew it was to get depth of field but I didn't know much after that. So that means mine is a vibrating dof? Since it has the box on it with the switch? Also I just tried it out and it is kinda blurry. I tried to focus by moving the rings but didn't do much to my knowledge. I was outside trying to learn it in the day light no direct sun just now .

Also. The image is flip no matter if i turn the camera upside down. But then again when I turn camera upside I have to turn screen around to see it so the screen must be making me view upside now matter what.

I'm going to be doing alot of learning with and without adaptor.

Thanks again for the lengthy reply. It helped me understand quicker.

Khaver

2010 September 30th, 16:33

First thing you should do is remove the HV20 from it (be careful not to get dust on the inside). Set the adapter up so the lens is pointing at some bright object in the distance (not the sun). Set the aperture ring to the lowest number and set the feet/m ring to infinity. Look in the end where the HV goes and see if the distant object is focused on the ground glass. If not, there should be some adjustment screws or rings on the tubes that will let you adjust the lens to ground glass distance until the distant object is in focus (don't turn any of the rings on the lens). Lock these down once you get good focus. On the tube where the HV goes there should be some sort of macro lens adapter that will allow the HV to focus closer than normal. If not, you'll have to get one that fits all the screw threads on the HV (43mm) and the adapter tube (?mm). If there's already one, attach the HV. Zoom out all the way on the HV and set the focus to manual and turn its focus wheel to focus as close as you can on the ground glass. Now zoom in as needed till the edges of the ground glass can't be seen. Re-adjust the HV focus if needed.

The adapter might have a way of adjusting the HV to ground glass distance also. If this is the case, for the easiest set up, set the focus of the HV all the way to near focus (turn the wheel till the focus no longer changes). Then adjust the HV to ground glass distance for sharp focus and lock these down. Now, whenever you want to use the adapter, just attach the HV, set the focus at its minimum focus distance, adjust the zoom and you're set.

Now you know why many people are trading in their HV/35mm Adapter setups for DSLR's.

The flipped image is normal. Some adapters have a prism or mirror setup in them the flips the image. Some people do a hardware hack on the camera that flips the image on the LCD. And others use an external monitor hooked up to the AV or HDMI ports either turning the monitor upside down or some monitors come with a switch that flips the image.

MikePizzoff

2010 October 12th, 14:50

Some adapters have a prism or mirror setup in them the flips the image.

Could you (or anyone) tell me the names of some adapters that will flip the image?

Khaver

2010 October 12th, 15:07

Letus35 (start at $799 USD)