Canon's interlace-wrapped 24P

[jekins]

Now that I have both an HV20 and a brand new HF S10 - and I primarily shoot in 24fps - I'm well aware of pulldown removal solutions like NeoScene or JES De-Interlacer. Yet, when I watch 24fps video produced by the cameras, I can't help but feel that there's something wrong with the motion. I'm wondering if this is a consequence of wrapping it in 60i, or whether it's just because of a slow shutter speed compared to professional "Hollywood" cameras.

When I go watch TV shows or movies at 23.98fps, they mostly look very fluid and smooth, and remain remarkably clear and focused regardless of high motion. Although there are exceptions, when I pause and advanced frame-by-frame through HiDef TV shows or movies, ever frame looks almost like it was taken at full resolution by a nice still camera.

But so far, even though I know I'm properly removing pulldown, there's a huge gap in the fluidity of the motion on 24p movies I produce compared to professionally done TV shows or movies. When my camera is still and the subject is still, the shot is gorgeous, but when things move, it gets blurry. Is this because of the inferior shutter speed on these consumer cameras compared to big TV production cameras?

[Lightloch]

Hmm, I use Neoscene and I have not noticed the motion blur that you speak of in my latest 24p project:

Personal Music Video shot on HV30 (Part 1) on Vimeo

What method of p.d. removal are you using? Also just to mention the elephant in the room, you must take into account that consumer cameras like the Canon HV and HF series are not near the calibre of behemoth Hollywood cameras that cost a small fortune.

[jekins]

Yeah - that looked pretty good. I used to import from my HV20 into HDV files and edit those directly. Then when I started learning about pd removal I used JS Deinterlacer to turn those into Apple Intermediate files. Now that I have an HF S10 I use NeoScene (Cineform) to convert the AVCHD and do the pd removal at the same time.

With the problem I'm talking about objects get an inconsistent jaggedy motion feeling to them when the camera moves, or when the object moves a lot quickly. For example, consider this example I found on Vimeo... It's a particularly blatant example, though still slightly different from the phenomenon I'm describing.

HV20 on Vimeo

[jekins]

Here's another... watch when the lady with the white jeans walks right in front of the camera. Notice the kind of jittery strobe effect. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

hv20 on Vimeo

[jekins]

One last example... This one was done beautifully on the color/grading, but you'll still notice the jitteryness of the subect when the camera moves or when he moves. Especially towards the end where he takes up a larger portion of the screen.

HV20 SGpro on Vimeo

[jay-d]

Hey jekins,

With 24p, and film like qualities, you need to understand that motion is very slow. If you're hand holding and panning, you'll see blur.. if you look at a hollywood movie, you'll notice that there's never any fast motion and always use a tripod.

Lighting is also a huge factor, not just shooting in 24p. There's a lot of factors in the equation and 24p is just one of them.

If you look at Neo Scene's pull down from what I've discovered, it can be a big part of why you see so much blurring.

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=12246&page=6

The last post there, with a direct comparison with Neo Scene vs After Effects pull down. The After Effects pulldown is a lot smoother but I was also moving and panning really fast but still, the images with AE pulldown look much better.

You may want to look into that as well.

[-Rogue5-]

Hey Jay-d, do you know of a non-AE method (JES?) that offers the same results and works on both PC and Mac?

Also, how do you "read" the video to know what 3:2pd needs to be applied?

-Rogue5-

[jay-d]

Hey Jay-d, do you know of a non-AE method (JES?) that offers the same results and works on both PC and Mac?

Also, how do you "read" the video to know what 3:2pd needs to be applied?

-Rogue5-

Hey,

I don't know of any other methods.. and I will be sticking to AE since it's giving me the best video quality.. sorry :(

This is a great little video to watch, it's free from Lynda.com and it's identifying pulldowns though it's using AE.. but you can still learn how to identify them ;)

http://www.lynda.com/home/Player.aspx?lpk4=30919

[thequads]

what's your shutter at? film is usually 1/48.. you could be getting blur because your shutter is too slow.. you have to lock it down at 1/48.