jvc hm100u

[dcloud]

everything you wanted on hv40 except the price :hv20-smilie01: & sensor

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101845

1/4 3ccd, 35mbps mpeg2
24p,30p, 60i, 60p?
46mm filter diameter.. (eh?)

list price under $4,000.

What would make this great if it were:
low light sensitive, sub 3000

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

The feature that destroys the whole deal for me is its 1/4th sensor, not the price or the rest of its features. 1/4th is too small IMO for such a camera.

[Gymnut808]

Wow that thing is tiny. I'm curious of their proprietary codec.

[Rumpelgeist]

Would be an interesting option if priced below $2K

[spideralex90]

It's about time JVC caught up. I'm interested in this camera.

[spideralex90]

1/4th sensor is it's only problem in my eyes, but i can see past it. The focus assist is awesome, the manual control is amazing.

And i have to agree with Aramis. I'd buy this camera for under 2K for sure.

[dcloud]

well based on the website, its targeted at around sub 4000. it would be wishful thinking if its sub 2000 with the 3ccd and all.

[spideralex90]

well based on the website, its targeted at around sub 4000. it would be wishful thinking if its sub 2000 with the 3ccd and all.

This is true.

[spideralex90]

60 Hz setting: HQ mode:1920 x 1080/59.94i, 29.97p, 23.98p,
1440 x 1080/59.94i, 1280 x 720/59.94p, 29.97p, 23.98p
SP mode: 1440 x 1080/59.94i, 1280 x 720/59.94p, 29.97p, 23.98p
50Hz setting: HQ mode:1920 x 1080/50i, 25p
1440 x 1080/50i, 1280 x 720/50p, 25p
SP mode: 1440 x 1080/50i, 1280 x 720/50p, 25p

Not sure what SP mode is, but it looks like we'll get some form of 60p. I'm assuming 720p60.

[Rumpelgeist]

I assume that SP means HDV-like 25mbps MPEG-2.

This cam is of no interest for me for $4K, I'd prefer the HMC150 instead. JVC cannot help going its own way. Two years ago it went with TOD because AVCHD was too new and unknown, as they said. Now it with with QuickTime. Who cares, I say. The HMC150 has all features the HM100 offers and more.

For $2K it can be a potential hit, closing the gap between consumer and pro cams. While Canon is losing market by not marrying the S100 and the GL-2, this JVC cam could be just IT. Again, for $2K, not for $4K.

For $4K this cam will be as rare and as unpopular as the HD7 was.

[spideralex90]

Yeah 4K is a bit much for a cam of this size, 3k maybe, but it would sell much better for 2k.

[spideralex90]

I need test footage. This camera, as mentioned before, sounds like what we've been asking for all along. Aside from the price. Which kills me.

Also it says it's a simle workflow with Final cut, i wonder how it'll do in adobe and vegas.

[Shadow_7]

everything you wanted on hv40 except the price :hv20-smilie01: & sensor


That pretty much sums it up. For that sensor size (regardless of the other specs) I'd expect it to be $1K-ish. Not that I care for CCDs at all with the smear effect from anything emitting light, or reflecting it. Although it might have enough lens / glass inside the camera to do decently in low light.

[spideralex90]

That pretty much sums it up. For that sensor size (regardless of the other specs) I'd expect it to be $1K-ish. Not that I care for CCDs at all with the smear effect from anything emitting light, or reflecting it. Although it might have enough lens / glass inside the camera to do decently in low light.

Pretty much. This should be a great cam though.


Maybe they'll not sell enough and be forced to sell it for cheaper! (wishful and probably bad thinking.)

[dcloud]

Im getting an hmc150 soon. this wouldve been a good substitue if it was 2-2.5k.

i still have my eggs on the lumix g basket though.

[spideralex90]

Im getting an hmc150 soon. this wouldve been a good substitue if it was 2-2.5k.

i still have my eggs on the lumix g basket though.

Yeah it'd be a good b-cam to a HMC150, the only problem as mention many times is the price.

[mrob7]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/597842-REG/JVC_GY_HM100U_GY_HM100U_ProHD_Camcorder.html

It shows as 4k on bhphoto... I would definitly get this if it was 2-2.5k range. I can't justify spending that much on it though, when there are options such as the panasonic hmc-150 at even cheaper

[deltoidjohn]

Seems wierd that they announced this cam at CES... i think it will be far more popular with the ENG crowd who have minimum broadcast specs they have to adhere to. This would be a great grab and run camera in newsrooms where the only other option is an XDCAM shoulder mount. And to those guys, 4k is pocket change... I reckon you'll see alot of these turning up in war zones.

[Duke]

Everyone is remarking on the 1/4" sensor, but the difference between the 1/4" and 1/3" isn't that much, only 1/12". Neither will have great DOF control or great bokeh. For both you'll use an adapter for full DOF control.

I do see that the HM100u has XLR, while the HMC150 does not. That's important. They both have HDMI.

The 100u CCD sensors should have less of a skew problem, but as far as smear it needs to be tested. In most new cameras they've eliminated the smear problem (like the update in the HVX200 to HVX200a).

On the other hand the 100u has only 1 ND filter. You can cary a filter and screw it on, but flipping a switch is so much more convenient.

The lenses are relatively comparable. The HMC150 goes a little wider and a little more zoom, but it's close.

Even though a few have dissed the file formats, I view the formats available in the HM100u as an improvement. The MOV and ISO formats will allow true drop and use speeds rather than transcoding, etc. ENG people should love that. With breaking news you can't wait 4 hours to transcode. The same would be true for most professional fields (weddings, sports, etc) as the sooner you can move to your next project the more money you can make.

Even though they talk about it as a little camera the 100u's length and weight are comparable to the HMC150. (1/2 pound less). They are both about a 1/2" longer than the A1 and ~3/4 lbs lighter than the A1.

All these prices drop with time. Don't expect the $3,999 price to stay there for more than a few months, if that long. The HMC150 dropped quick enough and is down to $3,289 and still dropping. Perhaps a side benefit to the bad economy. Seems like a good little camera from the specs.

[Duke]

The Japanese sites also talk about another new camera from JVC the GY-HM700.

It has:
1/3" 3 CCD sensors.
Shoulder form factor.
14x high-quality interchangeable lens by Canon
A bigger LCD.
HD SDI output, SD down-convert capability over IEEE 1394 interface

The GY-HM700 is scheduled for delivery in March 2009. More details will be released in February 2009.

It doesn't say the price, yet. Basically it's an XDCAM EX camera. Will they try to beat the EX3 price point?

[Shadow_7]

Everyone is remarking on the 1/4" sensor, but the difference between the 1/4" and 1/3" isn't that much, only 1/12". Neither will have great DOF control or great bokeh. For both you'll use an adapter for full DOF control.


Not much difference, but still 30% more sensor from 1/4 to 1/3. Just like if you double(x2) the radius of a pizza, you get pizza PI (x3.14). And the HF S series is boasting a 1/2.6" sensor. Almost 54% bigger than 1/4". It's a better measure in terms of amount of light hitting the sensor, versus the theoretical quality of the sensor (IMO). i.e. Will or will not have better low light performance.

I'm not a fan of DOF. I want everything to be in focus. I'm archiving memories, not so much in telling a story. My memory is already fuzzy enough. And HD is kind of moot if you're gonna blur 75% of the image. Despite the compression / file size advantage of blur.

[Duke]

Ideally it would be FF35, but that's not going to happen. DOF control is just a tool. Even with those cameras that are capable of nice bokeh and DOF control, doesn't mean you have to use it, or that it happens automatically.

The amount of glass and aperture makes a difference too. I can get really nice DOF on my A1 at maximum zoom (20x) on 1/3" chips. At 10x it's almost impossible to make it look nice with with either 1/4" or 1/3" sensors.

That's one if the things people may be disappointed with the 2/3" fixed lens Scarlet. It's only 8x. Just playing with the math IMHO the DOF control is going to be about like the A1. (Twice as big a sensor, less than half the zoom and a slower lens than the A1) We'll see.

You still need to make it happen. Citizen Kane was shot on 35mm film and everything is in focus. It's a style by choice, vs having no choice.

[The Stevesy]

I do see that the HM100u has XLR, while the HMC150 does not. That's important. They both have HDMI.



Link (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/575992-REG/Panasonic_AG_HMC150_AG_HMC150_AVCCAM_Camcorder.htm l#specifications)




Component Video: Video Terminal (x1 Output)
Composite Video: RCA (x1 Output)
Analog Audio L/R: 3-Pin XLR (x2 Input)
Line: Pin-Jack (x1 Output)
HDMI
USB 2.0: MiniB
Camera Remote: 2.5mm Super Mini (Zoom), 3.5mm Mini (Focus/Iris)



HMC's got XLR.

[The Stevesy]

I also like this from the JVC site:




For a smaller footprint and less conspicuous shooting, the handle can be easily removed. When media needs to be concealed, Micro-SDHC memory cards can be used with a card adapter.



It'd be perfect for that show Cheaters.

[Paulo Teixeira]

The release price of the Sony V1u was a little over 4 grand and it also had ¼” chips. Anyway, Panasonic first said the price of the HMC-150 was going to retail for $4,500 but both Amazon and B&H sold it for much less than that day one. Since Amazon currently has the HMC-150 for $3,200 I’m guessing the release price will be $3,000 to $3,500. If Sony, Panasonic or Canon releases similar camcorders than I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets priced under 3 grand.

[Duke]

HMC's got XLR.

My bad. I had it up on screen too. I don't know how I missed it. I guess I need a stronger cup of coffee that early in the morning. :hv20-smilie01:

[The Stevesy]

This cam's really, really growing on me. I love the small form factor. It seems so versatile. The only concerns I have on it are light sensitivity and that price tag. If it really does hit for $4000 and stays there, then why not just go for the 170 for like a $1200 more. (I know that's a lot, but when you're getting into this price point it only makes sense to invest a tad bit more and get more features.) If this thing hits right around 2800-3200, then I'm sold.

The place where it beats the HMC 150 is the two hot swappable SDHC card slots. That's pretty fantastic.

[mrob7]

I'm pretty geeked over the fact of xlr, native .mov, size, manual control, HOT SWAPPABLE SDHC!

I do alot of sports videography, and this just may be my next camera. I can't go with tape much longer, it is just too much of a hassle, and takes too much time to capture.

[The Stevesy]

I'm pretty geeked over the fact of xlr, native .mov, size, manual control, HOT SWAPPABLE SDHC!

I do alot of sports videography, and this just may be my next camera. I can't go with tape much longer, it is just too much of a hassle, and takes too much time to capture.

It'd be perfect for sports. So compact and light weight. Quick post turnaround. Man, that would be sweet!

[spideralex90]

The .mov thing is genius. And i wonder if they'll update it soon to work with SDXC, so that when 2TB cards come out in like a year or so we can record like 100 hours of HD non stop!

this camera is Amazing... but not it's price.

[oneearth]

Finally, the formats are being developed the other way around.
I don't think I'll want to get a scarlet, having dealt with red footage before. Especially when camera makers are making cameras that spit out footage I can instantly work with natively.

My biggest hope for the future is a camera that shoots native prores 422 quicktime files.

[mrob7]

It'd be perfect for sports. So compact and light weight. Quick post turnaround. Man, that would be sweet!

Absolutely, i'm curious to see how much it will drop in the coming days

[spideralex90]

Here's to praying they'll wise up and lower the price.

[oneearth]

Here's a 30 minute video of the release of the camera:
http://www.macvideo.tv/camera-technology/features/index.cfm?articleId=109356
Near the end they go through the workflow, which is as simple as plugging the card in, grabbing the files and dragging them in or importing them in, clips instantly work with no wrapping or transcoding.
And they are using the XDcam EX codec in a quicktime wrapper(also shown near end of video).

This camera has me pretty interested, but it will depend on if the 1/4" chips stand up against the larger sensor competition in the same price range, and if the price range drops a grand or so that would be nice.

[Rumpelgeist]

Here's a 30 minute video of the release of the camera:
http://www.macvideo.tv/camera-technology/features/index.cfm?articleId=109356
Near the end they go through the workflow, which is as simple as plugging the card in, grabbing the files and dragging them in or importing them in, clips instantly work with no wrapping or transcoding.
As if you need to transcode MPEG-2 or AVCHD video.

And they are using the XDcam EX codec in a quicktime wrapper(also shown near end of video).
"XDCAM EX codec" is pretty much regular MPEG-2 with 35 Mbit/s data rate. JVC already had MPEG-2 at 30 Mbit/s, so all they did compared to the HD7, is upped the bitrate and wrapped into Sony's container, and now everyone has got excited.

I can see BPAV, PRIVATE and MOV folders on the media, seems like XDCAM EX (I googled for XDCAM EX file structure, heh).

In the video they say that you can do "log and transfer" from normal bpav files. I wonder does the camera record in both formats simultaneously, or transcodes live when you ask for bpav files?

EDIT: interesting thread in regards to workflow: http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/142/861966#861973 But if ultimately the encoding is the same and only packaging differs, then it should not matter, bpav or mov. Same as, um, TOD vs MPG.

[HueyNRolf]

I like this camera a lot, but for that sort of money you could get an XH-A1.
It needs to be sub $2,000... IMHO

[Rumpelgeist]

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/04/17/review-of-jvc-gy-hm-100/
http://exposureroom.com/members/philipbloom.aspx/assets/a4bfbc8d1bed44248b4a0c784dfe5862/

[HueyNRolf]

interesting, thanks for the links.