Sony Premium Mini DV Tape

[Michael Hackney]

Hi, this is the DV tape I've used with my HV20. So far I've only used one, but would you say this is as good as any other? I find it easy to find (at any Walmart or Walgreens) and cheap. I know it's not good to switch tapes, because of the lubricants involved, but is this gonna give me just about as good quality as a more expensive "HDV" tape? Thanks.

[bryhidef]

Tapes: I was confused on day 1 of purchase about this issue but after reading up I find it comes down to this: HDV uses the exact same tape system as DV, so any DV tape is fine. There is one important note though: in the event of a tape dropout, HDV will experience considerably more distortion (e.g. DirecTV during a storm!). This is due to MPEG2 being used for HDV rather than Motion JPEG (or similar to Motion JPEG) used for DV. Motion JPEG is like still-picture JPEG - it is compression within one frame. MPEG2 encodes the differences between multiple frames and relies on the similarity between multiple frames to achieve much better compression. The potential problem with this is that one corrupt frame begets MANY corrupt frames. The H.264-based AVCHD is potentially even worse due to extending this concept even further, though the compression improvements would allow for more error correction codes to prevent such dropouts, if the manufacturers so desire to implement it- to this end, I don't know what they are doing.

I've bought a collection of very inexpensive DV tapes, the best bargain being a Maxell 8-pack at Sam's Club for $20. Anybody care to share their experiences? I doubt dropouts are a real problem unless you reuse tapes a lot - at $2.50 a pop I don't see the point in re-use though!

[Michael Hackney]

Yes, I do agree that there's no need to reuse. I guess that part of the question was more out of curiosity. Thanks for the input though!

[Perry]

I know it's not good to switch tapes, because of the lubricants involved,


is this true? should you pick one tape and stick with it forever? i wasn't aware of this. also, do you take your tape out everytime you're done recording? is it bad to leave it in?

[miglo]

Stick with one company. If you plan to switch, consider using a tape cleaner.

After some research, I've setted on using the DVM63PQ panasonic tapes. These have been very highly recommended by "pros" and relatively cheap (~3$3.50-4.00) a tape. The PQ tapes are middle road, they are better than the EQ tapes but not as expensive as the AMQ tapes.

[David]

is this true? should you pick one tape and stick with it forever? i wasn't aware of this.

That's the general rule of thumb since the DV days. Lots of links about this. I used to have links bookmarked on the topic but it doesn't get discussed or debated that much any more since the topic is pretty well known. Google up the words DV brand lubricant and I'm sure you'll find more info.

[markphil]

My experience is the same as mentioned above, stick with one brand and you should have no problem. Although I don't have an HV20 yet I have been using the Panasonic DV tapes for several years in my DV cams without any problems.

[Perry]

I got the Fujifilm DVC mini DV. anyone have an opinion about these?

[pelai]

whatever you do, do NOT use Sony's tape's in other camcorders than Sony's cams.
The Sony-tapes are so-called wet tapes, and they are the nr 1 cause of repairing in other cams than theirs.

This is apparently a well known issue amongst repaircenters. I learned this unfortunately too late, when my camcorder needed a serious repair a few years ago because of this. What upsets me is that, no seller ever warns you until it's too late, and Sony's premium tapes are sometimes the only ones you can buy in small shops...

Anyway... when I got my HV-20 I laughed, because I actually had a 2-year warranty (Pal version in France). The first year was covered by canon-europe, and the second by the retailer. On top of the box, the retailer had written a note explaining that in the case sony's premium-tapes were being used in this canon hv-20, the second year warranty would be unvalid.

Now, other brands are normally ok (panasonic has very good feedback), and as they say, try to stick to one brand.

[moira]

thats the most informative advice Ive read,Pelai. Ive been reading the which tapes issue and have found,like you,that sony tapes are everywhere. Going on a world trip it was tempting to go with the most easily purchased tapes. I haven't got my HV20 yet but I'll be buying panasonic tapes. Many thanks for the warning.
Cheers

[David]

whatever you do, do NOT use Sony's tape's in other camcorders than Sony's cams.

You don't need to buy tapes made by the same manufacturer of your camera. There isn't anything special about the Sony mechanism that somehow makes it more suitable for Sony tapes. I work with people who shoot with our XL1s & XL2s all the time and Sony is the only brand of tape that is used.

[Mal]

whatever you do, do NOT use Sony's tape's in other camcorders than Sony's cams.
The Sony-tapes are so-called wet tapes, and they are the nr 1 cause of repairing in other cams than theirs.

As I knew it, that was information that was true many years ago; i.e. about 7 or so. In the meantime, Sony updated their specs on their tapes, and although the advice given - to use same tapes all the time - is a good practice, the Sony-is-terrible-and-will-destroy-your-camera scare is NOT true any longer. It was a brief period back in the advent of MiniDV camcorders.

Anyway, that's how I remember the story...

[nana ban]

hi there

regarding tapes i have being using JVC cheap tapes dv 60 5 in packs very
good no problems or dropout as it seems to be the most popular
in the electronic stores in uk, anybody else useing

[bluegrass]

whatever you do, do NOT use Sony's tape's in other camcorders than Sony's cams.

Now, other brands are normally ok (panasonic has very good feedback), and as they say, try to stick to one brand.

I've been using Sony Premium tapes for two and a half years now on my Canon cameras without a problem. Occasionally I hve mixed other brands in too such as Maxell & JVC. I never heard anything different until I read all these reports here. I'm building up my stash for this summers shooting with over 40 Sony tapes on my shelf right now. I usually get them from my local Walmart but I just learned from our video guy where I work that they purchase either the Sony or the Panasonic premiums for $3.50 so I may have to ask him to get me some. I think I usually pay about $4 in packs of 5 or 6 from Walmart.

[Kraven]

Tapes: I was confused on day 1 of purchase about this issue but after reading up I find it comes down to this: HDV uses the exact same tape system as DV, so any DV tape is fine. There is one important note though: in the event of a tape dropout, HDV will experience considerably more distortion (e.g. DirecTV during a storm!). This is due to MPEG2 being used for HDV rather than Motion JPEG (or similar to Motion JPEG) used for DV. Motion JPEG is like still-picture JPEG - it is compression within one frame. MPEG2 encodes the differences between multiple frames and relies on the similarity between multiple frames to achieve much better compression. The potential problem with this is that one corrupt frame begets MANY corrupt frames. The H.264-based AVCHD is potentially even worse due to extending this concept even further, though the compression improvements would allow for more error correction codes to prevent such dropouts, if the manufacturers so desire to implement it- to this end, I don't know what they are doing.

I've bought a collection of very inexpensive DV tapes, the best bargain being a Maxell 8-pack at Sam's Club for $20. Anybody care to share their experiences? I doubt dropouts are a real problem unless you reuse tapes a lot - at $2.50 a pop I don't see the point in re-use though!

So are you saying that you don't need to buy the premium tape which is specifically designed for High Definition shooting? You can buy the Panasonic tapes I see at Newegg where a 6 pack costs $18 and the HD quality images from the camcorder come through just fine?

I was under the impression you needed to buy the tape which specifies that it is suited for High Definition....

[Michael Hackney]

Aww man, that above post got me a tad bit worried.. Since Sony does use the wet lubricant vs the dry by others.. I just get those, cuz they're everywhere and if it's like 3 in the morning and I need a tape, Sony Premium are available..

[gibo]

The main experience I've had is that if you mix tapes, it's a good idea to do a head cleaning on your camera between different brands. I would suggest that if there's a tape stock you like, try to stick with it for the majority of your shooting. As for the new higher end HDV stock, I'm personally not sold on it to be of any better quality than a good Sony or Panasonic tape already on the market.

I've been using varying types of Sony tapes in my Z1U and have never had a dropout in HDV.

From my personal experience, I had less luck in the past with TDK tapes, but this was four and five years ago. There are several reputable tape stock resellers online such as TapeandMedia.com. (I don't have any connection to them, but have had many years of top service with competitively priced stock.)

[David]

So are you saying that you don't need to buy the premium tape which is specifically designed for High Definition shooting? You can buy the Panasonic tapes I see at Newegg where a 6 pack costs $18 and the HD quality images from the camcorder come through just fine?

Exactly.

The quality of the HD tapes may be higher, but there is nothing specific to an "HD" tape that allows "HD quality images" while normal DV tapes prohibit "HD quality images".

It's all ones and zeros, as they say.

[Shahryar]

I've always heard that you should only stick to one brand and after reading a pretty long debate (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/long-black-line/50892-use-one-brand-controversy.html), am convinced you should do so.

I purchased my HV20 in april of this year (bought refurbished from Canon eStore for $399.99 + tax & shipping if anyone is interested). I have only used Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ Mini PA-AYDVM63PQ so far. The last batch I grabbed was in july of this year from tapestockonline. It was a 10 pack for 2.99 each w/ free shipping. I've been pretty happy with the prices.

I'm wondering what I should do to get content off of my old tapes which are not AY-DVM63PQ.

Before this camera, I had a Sony HC1 which I used from spring 2006 to fall 2008.. In that, other than a random panasonic I used the first time, I only used Sony DVM-60 PR/5 Premium Minidv Videocassette (5DVM60PRL). And prior to that, on my first small dv panasonic camcorder, I used a variety of tapes - a mix of panasonic, tdk, fuji film I think.. maybe another brand or two.

I think I could maybe use the old panasonics in my HV20.

I'm thinking I should just get a tape deck and "abuse" it by switching tapes and running a lot of head cleaners in there. I'm scared not just of damaging the tape deck or camcorder in switching tapes, but also damaging other tapes which will come into contact with my recording device's heads after it's been exposed to more than one tape. Any thoughts?

I plan on getting a more pro camera soon for more serious work. Maybe on that one I'll use another brand so that gives me some versatility.

[Janke]

I'm wondering what I should do to get content off of my old tapes


Don't be paranoid about tapes... :hv20-smilie03:

Seriously, if you're worried, follow the consensus here: When switching brands, run a cleaning tape for 5 to 10 seconds.

For servicing personnel, Canon tech says max 25 seconds at a time, and 5 minutes absolute maximum during one service call, if 25 seconds doesn't help.

So, 5 to 10 seconds is fine - and if you transfer all your stuff in batches according to tape brand, you don't have to do many cleanings.

In fact, I would only clean the heads if I notice a problem during transfer, and a last time after all are done.

[eng_kw]

i used HD tape we found better than normal Dv because when capture dv tape will get resolution 1440 x 1080 not 1920 x 1080 ( full HD ) but i think when use HD tape we will get full HD resolution

[Janke]

eng - you're totally wrong here.

The HDV signal is identical, regardless of tape quality - it's always 1440 x 1080, scaled to 1920 wide. What better tapes (possibly) provide, is less dropouts.

[Shahryar]

Don't be paranoid about tapes... :hv20-smilie03:

Seriously, if you're worried, follow the consensus here: When switching brands, run a cleaning tape for 5 to 10 seconds.

For servicing personnel, Canon tech says max 25 seconds at a time, and 5 minutes absolute maximum during one service call, if 25 seconds doesn't help.

So, 5 to 10 seconds is fine - and if you transfer all your stuff in batches according to tape brand, you don't have to do many cleanings.

In fact, I would only clean the heads if I notice a problem during transfer, and a last time after all are done.

Thanks Janke. Hmm... I guess I'm being a little paranoid. Let me hear some more comments and then maybe loosen up a bit.

any good tape cleaner suggestions?

[cgbier]

Get the Panasonic cleaning tape. Use it every 10 hours for about 10 seconds.

Changing brands is no problem even without cleaning the head. There was the first dropout with me Sony A1 this week... and that cam has about 60 hours on the clock with 4 different tape brands and no cleaning at all.

[2Bdecided]

I'm thinking I should just get a tape deck and "abuse" it by switching tapes and running a lot of head cleaners in there.That's almost what I've done - except I took the paranoid route.

Old DV cameras from eBay are cheap - so I bought 3! One for each tape type I have!

All my old DV tapes are marginal - that is to say the camera they were recorded in was off-spec (faulty!) so they barely play back in anything. Some are OK, and some aren't. Sometimes it changes scene to scene, or even within the scene.

So if the playback tracking changes even a bit, I see it, because the errors get visibly worse or better.


And on these old tapes, on these various brand and various age camcorders (new-ish Sony, not so new JVC, old Panasonic), mixing tape brands visibly changes the playback reliability. Ten of one tape, and the one of another = that one plays differently than if it was preceeded by ten of the same brand.

These tapes date from 1998 onwards.



Can't do this so cheaply with HDV.


The problem I face: I've always used Sony Premium DV on my HV20, but do get about one drop out per tape (I fear it's worse on the latest batch of Sony Premium DV tapes from Amazon). Canon (I've now found!) recommend using Panasonic "LP-grade" tapes in the HV20. But would it be safe to switch? Wouldn't it make it a pain having to go back to old tapes? Maybe there's no problem any more - but HDV with even more drop-outs isn't something I want to risk.

Cheers,
David.

[CycleWriter]

Why do you guys allow these threads to propagate when you know there is a Tape Sticky with these same answers? Come on, help me out here.

To the OP, please do a search and read the FAQ.