Can the HV20 record in Ultr high speed like the sony hc-7 for really good slow mo??

[ForwardLooker]

Hi peepz,

I came accross this vid on you tube of some cool skating done with a hc-7 in really slow mo.

Have a look: http://youtube.com/watch?v=RHFtmMqWBtA

The guy says that he shot this in ' ultra high speed mode ' but i've looked at reviews for the hc-7 and cant find this feature.:hv20-smilie51:

Can this be acheived with the HV20??

thanks

FL

[Frank]

No, but there plugins you can use in AE and other editors to emulate slo-mo in post. If you go that route, you're going to want to use a high shutter speed to capture the sharpest possible frames for digital interpolation.

[fstopopen]

I may be mistaken, but I belive that the high speed slow motion that the hc-7 records is not hdv, in fact it is lower resolution than dv, that is how they cram all the information on the tape. For anything beyond web viewing it is unusable.

drake

[ForwardLooker]

I may be mistaken, but I belive that the high speed slow motion that the hc-7 records is not hdv, in fact it is lower resolution than dv, that is how they cram all the information on the tape. For anything beyond web viewing it is unusable.

drake

Thanks guys!

fstopopen, Where did you get your info from?? i cant find any!

[iondot]

I've just moved to the HV20 from the HC3, which features the same "ultra high speed" mode as the HC7.

I can tell you that while the feature is a lot of fun, it is not useful for any serious professional purpose.

The quality what Sony calls "Smooth slo mo" footage is very, very low. Whatever method Sony is using to achieve this effect, it appears to be recording an image that is lower than SD and pretty heavily compressed.

Now, that doesn't mean I haven't had fun with it and recorded some neat little clips of my daughter splashing in the water and such.

But essentially, the pristine product from the camera is not much better than the quality of a YouTube broadcast.

All of that said, using technology, such as "Optical Flow" to simulate slow motion does not produce a true result. You can do some amazing slow downs, but it can only interpolate, not create. I mention this because if you were interested in any kind of motion analysis, post production Slow motion is very ineffective.

[iondot]

I may be mistaken, but I belive that the high speed slow motion that the hc-7 records is not hdv, in fact it is lower resolution than dv, that is how they cram all the information on the tape. For anything beyond web viewing it is unusable.

drake

You are 90% correct. However, the resolution of whatever the camera is putting out is HD in so far as it is recorded at 1080i. That said, I would bet good money that the camera is up-sampling in order to fill that space.

[ForwardLooker]

Thanks for the replies, Ok I will stick to my regular slo mo's.

[Erik Bien]

I can't remember where I read this (so I can't post the link) but that Sony "Super Slo Mo" mode is extremely limited: it shoots something like 320x240 pixels for a few seconds, then takes another 10 or 15 seconds to finish saving it to tape. Might be useful for analyzing your golf swing, but you will never get it to intercut with HD or even SD footage shot normally, so what's the point?

[Daan Pol]

You could effectively achieve 100fps slowmo on a HV20 by shooting 50i (or 60i on NTSC), timestretch to 25fps so you get realtime x 0.5 slowmo and then timstretch in after effects with Frame Blending to 200% so you get realtime x 0.25.

We used this technique on 25p material to slowdown 4 times (100fps) without any artifacts. The frame-blending in After Effects is really good and won't blur the image but interpolate very smart. Looks amazing!

We even frameblended some D200 photos shot at 5fps to 25fps which looks REALLY funkay (and is 10 megapixel!) !

[ForwardLooker]

You could effectively achieve 100fps slowmo on a HV20 by shooting 50i (or 60i on NTSC), timestretch to 25fps so you get realtime x 0.5 slowmo and then timstretch in after effects with Frame Blending to 200% so you get realtime x 0.25.

We used this technique on 25p material to slowdown 4 times (100fps) without any artifacts. The frame-blending in After Effects is really good and won't blur the image but interpolate very smart. Looks amazing!

We even frameblended some D200 photos shot at 5fps to 25fps which looks REALLY funkay (and is 10 megapixel!) !

Hi Daan Pol, that sounds interesting! can i see any of this footage anyware, or could you maybe post an example? if you have the time maybe a quick tutorial.

thanks

[Daan Pol]

Hi Daan Pol, that sounds interesting! can i see any of this footage anyware, or could you maybe post an example? if you have the time maybe a quick tutorial.

thanks

Yea sure will try to find some time tomorrow at work to upload!

[ForwardLooker]

Yea sure will try to find some time tomorrow at work to upload!

thanks Daan Pol, much apprciated! :hv20-smilie77:

[Daan Pol]

Here we go;

First is raw Digibeta material shot at 25p;

http://www.shademaster.nl/temp/rawdigibeta.mov

Second is Frameblended to 200% material;

http://www.shademaster.nl/temp/frameblendeddigibeta.mov

Right click save target as to save to harddisk.

Both files are 1mb Quicktime h264 mov files (quicktime 7 required).

This frameblending trick doesn't work on any footage, is there is too much difference between 2 frames it will get 'creative' and create some funkypunky ghost effects that look like someones soul is leaving their body.

This was done in After Effects 7 using timestretching with frameblending switched on, real easy, takes LOADS of processor power though.

Now imagine filming at 50i, stretching that too 50p, and THEN timestretch to 200%! You'll get 100fps at 1080i resolution! With some smart upscaling and deinterlacing + color correction you can make that a convincable looking 1080p at 100fps.

Now see why I get so excited about the HV20? :hv20-smilie31:

[joe12south]

If you're going to record 60i/50i in order to crank it down to 24P, make sure you force your shutter to at least 100th of sec. Any slower, and the results definitely won't look right.

That gets you down to 40% speed with true, smooth recorded motion. Then you can use a post option (Twixtor is incredible, btw) to take it even lower. As said above, 200% slower again is possible depending on the material and your tool. The results can be amazing.

[propellerhead]

Yeah, the overcrank technique using 60i deinterlaced and frame doubled to 60p and run on a 24p timeline works really well. TMPGEnc works well for doing the deinterlacing to 60p.

[ForwardLooker]

Here we go;

First is raw Digibeta material shot at 25p;

http://www.shademaster.nl/temp/rawdigibeta.mov

Second is Frameblended to 200% material;

http://www.shademaster.nl/temp/frameblendeddigibeta.mov

Right click save target as to save to harddisk.

Both files are 1mb Quicktime h264 mov files (quicktime 7 required).

This frameblending trick doesn't work on any footage, is there is too much difference between 2 frames it will get 'creative' and create some funkypunky ghost effects that look like someones soul is leaving their body.

This was done in After Effects 7 using timestretching with frameblending switched on, real easy, takes LOADS of processor power though.

Now imagine filming at 50i, stretching that too 50p, and THEN timestretch to 200%! You'll get 100fps at 1080i resolution! With some smart upscaling and deinterlacing + color correction you can make that a convincable looking 1080p at 100fps.

Now see why I get so excited about the HV20? :hv20-smilie31:

Thats cool thanks!! I will give this a try!

[ForwardLooker]

Hi Daan Pol, Bin trying what you said out and i'm not getting the results so i'm alittle confused can u please do a step by step of your work flow stateing what your doing and why.

THanks

[Daan Pol]

Hi Daan Pol, Bin trying what you said out and i'm not getting the results so i'm alittle confused can u please do a step by step of your work flow stateing what your doing and why.

THanks

Yea sure man! Sorry for replying so late, had a busy week.

Here is a very short tutorial about how I went at it;

http://www.geniusdv.com/weblog/archives/adobe_after_effects_and_frame_blending.php

Hope that helped! I'd like to see how your tests turned out!

Yours,

Daan Pol

[ccirelli]

Twixtor and Apple's Shake does slo-mo really well, check those out.

Check out the sample video on the Twixtor page, look really nice but I'd like to see a larger version.

http://www.revisionfx.com/products/twixtor/