Timecode, Striping?

[Rico]

Hi

In order to use batch import into FCP do I need to Stripe the tapes in HV20?
if yes what is the best way to doe this? using FCP? or just recording through the whole tape before begining shooting? If this is a stupid question please say so, I am a total beginer with regard to Video.

Best

Rico

[Mal]

I haven't striped tapes...ever.
When recording, just make sure you start recording at the end of the previous recording. The HV20 has an END SEARCH function; use it, if in doubt.

[Rico]

Ahh yes of course I forgot about the end search thanks Mal, I must say this forum is fantstic, I am finding there is more to this Video bussines than I had first thought, I have a fair bit to learn, my head is spinning with it all at the moment, and I'm still confused :)

[Mal]

No worries, there's lots of knowledgable people here that can help (from what I've seen so far! :))

By the way, regarding recording and end search and all that: it's a good practice to record a few seconds LONGER than you'd normally want to. Basically keep recording for two, three, four seconds BEYOND where you think the "good action" has stopped. This will help you in editing, and it also makes it easier to "manually" line up the end of the recording without losing any valuable footage. Hope that made sense....

[gibo]

Another suggestion would be to record about 30 seconds of tape at the beginning with your hand over the lens. This helps two things: 1. Usually, the first 30 seconds of tape are the most susceptible to problems, like warping, etc. (extremely rare nowadays) and 2.) It helps when you want to load footage into an editing program to have some "leader" before your first shot you'd like to import. This also helps your editing software find the start point of the clip you'd like to load.

[Rico]

Thanks gibo

Thats a good tip, I will do as you suggest.

[Michael Hackney]

I also asked this question in another post and no one really timecode stripes their tapes, yet I read in a book (Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 Studio Techniques) where he recommends that you always do so with a full pass of recording, before starting on a project. So I'm not sure if I should or not, I know it certainly can't hurt much to do so..

[LiveFromNY]

I *think* the concept of stripping timecode onto video died off with analog content. Once we went to digital content with DV cameras a decade ago, that content has timecode built in as it is digital.

HDV carries this situation forward, and you can see this in the displayed timecode as you capture the footage to your application.

[sfdex]

Hi, there --

There is an advantage to striping your tape -- on the off chance that you do some field playback and miss the end of the previous shot, you'll have solid time code throughout. I do production professionally and can't tell you how frustrating it is when your tapes have multiple time-code restarts because you missed the end frames of the preceding shot.

That said, I rarely actually do stripe my tapes. This might be a case of "do as I say, not as I do...."

(And yes, in the olden days -- pre digital, that is -- it was essential that you stripe tapes because a break in control track was fatal.)

- Dex

[Maratiam]

First post!


I haven't striped tapes...ever.
When recording, just make sure you start recording at the end of the previous recording. The HV20 has an END SEARCH function; use it, if in doubt.

Remember that the END SEARCH will not work if the tape has left the camera after the last recording, unless it has a memoy chip (MIC).

I'm not sure if this is true for the HV20 but for most camera's this is a fact. (It puzzled me for over a month why my PD150 couldn't do END SEARCH sometimes).


-M4R4T14M-

[MoDawg73]

I have a macbook pro, and a HV20. today, I just started trying to batch capture using the log and capture screen. When I got three clips in, I pressed Batch Capture.

Then I got an error. It said the FCP coulnd't find the timecode.

It also couldn't handle when I tried to go to the in point via the timecode.

I thought about striping my tapes, which lead me to your question.

Anyone have any idea why FCP will show my time code in the log and capture window, it matches exactly with the timecode on my HV20, yet it can't go to it or capture from it.

Any help would be appreciated.

Ken

[duketh]

Striping also wears the heads down on the camera and sometimes degrades the tape so its not always the best thing.

[Terfyn]

Timecode was the only way to tie in the analogue signal to a point on the tape. Editing was carried out by using the timecode addresses - the picture information being meaningless ia tape to tape edit.
Digital editing is all about scenes and (my) NLE will attempt to split the shots at boundaries, change of scene etc. It doesn't really matter as the NLE will allow boundaries to be put in at any point.

[disneyvideoman]

Hello All,
Do any of you fully FF & RW a brand new tape 1st time you use it?
or do you just put a brand new tape in and start shootin video?

In the recording audio industry in the past they suggested to fully FF & RW brand new tapes b4 1st use to "unpack" them.

I wondered if this practice was true in the video indusry as well

thank you in advance for your input/suggestions/opinions
sincerely
joe

[Lunchbox]

For video professionals, they usually "stripe" a tape by recording blank for the whole time once so that there will be a continous timecode recorded to the tape.

I have never done that... maybe I am not a video professional :-)

[wolferic]

For video professionals, they usually "stripe" a tape by recording blank for the whole time once so that there will be a continous timecode recorded to the tape


Taky - don't you mean 'stripe' a tape?

[Lunchbox]

That's what I said.. what you talking about...!?!?

:D

[wolferic]

shucks... I should know better than to correct a moderator! :hv20-smilie64:

[Lunchbox]

I'm sorry... I keep having the dirty thoughts in my head.. that's why the word strip was typed :)

[NewtonsApple]

I use the Panasonic professional series tapes in my HV20 and in the tiny "instruction" sheet inside the tape case they do mention to FF a little ways in and then Rewind back to the beginning before recording on it the first time.

[tcindie]

Striping tapes is something that some people have carried over from the analogue days, but since the timecode is written to tape as the image is recorded, whether already on the tape or not -- unlike with analogue, where timecode was preserved and only the image and audio was altered -- it's not necessarily going to protect against timecode breaks.

The process of fast forwarding through and rewinding back a tape is what's known as 'Fast-winding'.. I've done it in the past, but have not done so in several years. I've never had any issues with timecode or drop outs. (knock on wood I suppose)

It's certainly not something that would be harmful, and in theory could potentially prevent data loss, but I would be much more inclined to use a cheap deck or old camcorder to fast-wind tapes rather than putting extra wear on the transport in the HV20.

[Terfyn]

Stripeing tape with timecode is a throwback from the analogue days when the timecode was used, in the editing process, to find scenes and to control scene length when tying the raw footage in to an edited tape.
Now, thank heavens, we deal with the actual digital information and the timecode becomes redundant.

[kevinmeyer]

every new tape i put in my cam i fast forward and rewind before recording. why? not sure just seems like the right thing to do.

well one of the reasons, if you look into storing your tapes is i have read they say you should take the tapes out once a year and fast forward and rewind them (something to do with having an even tension on the tape and to stop it binding) as well as store them standing up.

as for stripe-ing, tried it once, to much like hard work, never did it again, so far no time code problems!

[TimeKoder13]

Actually striping does work and serve a purpose b/c sometimes when you power off a cam or remove a tape for whatever reason you break the timecode. UNless you have those special Sony tapes that cost a ridiculous amount of money ($14-$16/tape) but have that digital data code no matter what, I forget what they were called. Some people like to log and capture. I don't anymore. Timecode breaks prevent time referenced L&C. But depending on your needs, are you working solo or as part of a team that may need to refer to tc? I edit all I shoot so I don't care, but I have striped dv tapes for stuff I've sent out for Beta mastering.

[Worley]

I don't FF, but I do play them for about 20 seconds before recording. Just in case the start of the tape is damaged.

[VideJo]

Like to add my coin here as well.
I work with Liquid Edition. This NLE has some typical characteristics. It is also available in a network version. So anyone else can make use of the footage on the server. For that reason each and every capture is initiated by entering a Reel name, identifying it. So if you have a break in your timecode, you must enter another Reel name for the part after the break If you don't, you will suddenly find another clip in your timeline, that initialy entered . . . So that is my reason to "black-shoot" my tapes.
Also, Liquid Edition requires a run-in length of a few seconds before the first clip of a capture. That is why I start shooting at 0:00:10.
As for the FF and rewind action: have you ever kept a roll of cellotape in your cupboard for a couple of years? You may have noticed, that the roll had taken a conical shape after a long period of storage. That effect is called "telescoping". I suspect, that any other plastic tape could have the same characteristics, so that is my reason to FF and RW each tape every now and than.

[spudgun]

Hello esteemed members!

I have been fortunate enough to acquire a new HV30, and wish to 'Format' the Mini DV tapes with time code. As it is tricky to do on the camera itself, (as the lens cap is mechanical), could i record 'blank' footage on an older SD Samsung Camera, or can this pose any problems?

Many thanks in advance and congratulations on a great Forum.

[racer-x]

This is what I do to blank tapes before I record over them:

I have an old Sharp mini-dv camera that I use for this purpose. After I capture the HDV footage to my HDD, I'll insert the tape in my old mini-dv camera. Set it in VCR mode. Rewind to beginning and hit RECORD. It displays an error on the screen complainig "NO INPUT", but that's fine. It completely strips all data and timecodes. The screen is Blue just like a fresh new tape. I've been doing it this way for years now and generally reuse my tapes a minimum of 10 times or more with excellent results. I've never experienced a dropped frame yet from my HV20 .

[Eclipse]

This might be a little bit off-topic, but I used to record a "black screen" the first 15 seconds at the beginning of each MiniDV tape with my old Panasonic camcorder by pressing the "fade" button. The HV 30 doesn't unfortunately have a seperate fade-button to create a longer black screen...
But there is a simple way to create a black screen with the HV 30: I set the shutter speed to the maximum, and both the exposure and the audio level to the minimum. Then I either hold some black card in front of the lens, or point the camera to a black object.

[previdman]

You can also stripe a tape with color bars instead of black burst. As a practice, I always leader abt 30s in with bars and a 1kHz tone before each shoot. The 1kHz tone helps set reference audio levels. Just my 2 cents (adjusted for inflation.)

[previdman]

Also, Liquid Edition requires a run-in length of a few seconds before the first clip of a capture. That is why I start shooting at 0:00:10.

Tape is more stable after a few seconds run in. I used to run mine 2 full minutes in.


As for the FF and rewind action: have you ever kept a roll of cellotape in your cupboard for a couple of years? You may have noticed, that the roll had taken a conical shape after a long period of storage. That effect is called "telescoping". I suspect, that any other plastic tape could have the same characteristics, so that is my reason to FF and RW each tape every now and than.

I still dutifully store my tapes on end to prevent "telescoping," run 2 minutes in for stability, and add bars and tone and I probably should (but admit I don't) ff and rw my master tapes.

Soon we'll be able to look back and laugh at the compromises we made using tape based recording.

As for solid state media, we just aren't quite there...yet.

[alwyn]

I always stripe my tapes. Point it at the wall and let her run. I never have to worry about finding the last bit of recorded tape.

[felly1000]

Hello all

I am a novice and have just purchased a HV30.

I have been playing around with it and would now like to erase the tapes I have been using.

So my question is.. how do you erase/format your tapes rather than recording over them?

I have FCE4.

Thanks

[VideJo]

There is no other way.
One alternative would be to record the tape agin, with a lenscap on your camera, that way blackens the tape, but indeed is also recording agin.

[racer-x]

There is no other way.

That's not true........I do it all the time. I keep an old (5 year old) Mini-DV camera around just for this reason. I insert the tape > put it in VCR Mode > rewind to beginning > hit the record button without any inputs. The screen gives an error about "NO INPUT", but that's fine. When done, all data are completely striped off the tape leaving a blue screen just like a new tape. All time codes are also erased.

Ive been doing this for years with excellent results. I generally get a minimum 10 recordings per tape before I start experiencing any dropped frames or any problems. I usually just replace them out of guilt than any problems though. I also use cheap Sony DV tapes at less than $3 a piece.

[VideJo]

Learned something I did not know before . . . thanks.

[voodeux]

If you've got $4200 to spare, you can do what I used to at the tape duplication facility...run it over a professional degausser like this one http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=RetrieveSku&IC=GACDS2500AHX&Q=&O=

[David]

I get dropouts with DV cameras AND with the HV20 after just one re-use. This has been with both Sony and Panasonic tapes. I wouldn't suggest reusing tapes unless what you're recording isn't that important to you.

[jabloomf1230]

The are also cheap manual degaussers (<$100 US). Radio Shack even used to sell one. They probably don't work all that well, though and why bother, since you can do the same with the camcorder.

[i_make_tshirts]

imma try that trizzick

[racer-x]

David wrote:

I get dropouts with DV cameras AND with the HV20 after just one re-use. This has been with both Sony and Panasonic tapes. I wouldn't suggest reusing tapes unless what you're recording isn't that important to you.

That may be your experience, but it certainly isn't mine. I have experienced dropouts in DV cameras after 10 or so re-uses, but never with the HV20. I shoot 4 - 6 games a week and it would be ridiculous to use new tapes for each game. I once had a dropped frame while capturing my HV20 footage, but I was moving large amounts of files on my HDDs at the same time and blame it on my ignorance.

In my opinion, there is no reason you can't expect to get a minimum of 10 re-uses per tape if done correctly.............

[Sean Michael]

I always "stripe" new tapes by making an uninterrupted recording (of the lens cap, a wall, whatever) for the full 60-minutes. I was taught that this is the best way to lay down timecode onto new tapes. Once the timecode is on the tape, it survives subsequent recordings. So, in essence, this means that all of my tapes have been "reused" once. I haven't had any major dropout problems.

[felly1000]

many thanks for your replies

[David]

That may be your experience, but it certainly isn't mine.

And I believe I made it clear that it was my experience.


there is no reason you can't expect to get a minimum of 10 re-uses per tape if done correctly.............

Okay, so explain to me how I'm doing it incorrectly? What is it that you think I'm doing wrong when I rewind the tape and put it back into the camera and press record? Please enlighten me.

[racer-x]

OK, explain why I can't get Pamela Anderson?

One dumb question deserves an equally dumb answer with a dumb question.

A smart person like yourself might want to look at the capture process as a possible suspect. Maybe an anti virus program running and disturbing access to HDD. Who knows? But then I'm not the one having dropout issues...........................

[twoneil]

Don't you have to 'blank' your tape before using it?

One of my friend recommends that you record the tape on camera mode for the full 60minutes; specially if the tape is brand new.

.....so that it will not screw up when you're capturing the videos on the computer.

Any thoughts?

[2Bdecided]

I don't re-use my tapes, but I would expect to be able to do so.

If one record and one playback was enough to make my tape useless for further recording, I'd be very worried.

If you are using them and then throwing them away, I guess it doesn't matter. I keep the tapes as a backup of the content, and the kind of deterioration you're reporting would get me very worried.

Or maybe the erase head in your camcorder doesn't work properly?


As for "striping" the tape by recording blank for 60 mins - unless you're going to leave gaps in the final recording, this is a waste of time and simply halves the life of your camcorder's heads.

Cheers,
David.

[sonicvybe]

Isn't drop out due to wear and tear/dust? Do you use a similar name brand cleaning tape? I also would hypothesize that it could be a problem with your erase head.

(don't call Judge Judy when science has the answer :))

[sonicvybe]

To answer the original thread question, I would imagine that after a few months of usage you would develop a method of re-using your tapes for different events, and also archiving your data on PC. I would probably mark on the tape case/label, the number of times it has been recorded on. I don't think that recording over the first 20 seconds 100 times, and 3 times over the rest of the tape will do it much good. Try to keep an even wear and tear. :)

[awallach]

I have some recently shot HDV footage of a party. The shooter must have watched the video playback, then proceeded to record additional footage. I see that this created TC (Time Code) problems and capturing became a hardship. It was doable, but you had to stop and save the clip before the "additional" footage started to playback or the footage wasn't captured.

That being said ... do you folks stripe your tapes? What is the process you use to do that? My HV30 lens cap is built in an opens when turned on. I have a hood with a cap, but the cap can be seen through. Any recommendations?

Thanks

Art

[iThinkergoiMac]

When you stripe a tape (I've always known it as "blacking" a tape), it doesn't actually have to be black. The point is to get a consistent timecode over the whole tape. I keep seeing people say that this is process is not necessary and a throwback to analog days, but the fact of the matter is that if you have timecode breaks it makes importing your video a royal pain. So I would say that it is still a good idea, unless you plan on shooting the whole 60 minutes without looking at the footage in the middle of the process.

I always black my tapes... and I just find a box or something that I put in front of the lens so that it mostly blocks the light.