Red Bull Air Race

[Dodgy Nick]

I'm going to the Red Bull Air Race on the Thames this weekend. I've got a huge new bag (LowePro Compact AW) that fits my camera, the videomic, my SLR and 3 lenses, with 3 bagloads of space for extras like filters, batterys, etc.

I've opted for a pavilion seat, which means I can go to the side of the pavilion and shoot with a tripod if I want to, or do it handheld in a seated position. I've never shot low flying airplanes before, and I only have 1 shot at this, so if anybody can give me some pointers that would be great. My initial thoughts are:

Use tripod and wide angle lens for establishing panning shots, for the rest:
Shoot handheld, with OIS on.
50i
Shutter Priority mode, with high shutter speed (any suggestions?)
Use Rode Videomic, attached to hot shoe
Bring an umbrella, in case it rains!

Is this what you would do? Any suggestions?

[bluegrass]

The only thought I had spoiler that I like in certain situations and this might be one of them. A monopod can work very nicely instead of any hand held shots plus can sub for a tripod for quite a bit. It is a lot less bother to carry arround. I can even use it as a walking stick if I like. A crowded and busy place like this will problaby be, might just be what could make your day more fun. Can't wait to see some low flying planes zooming towards you. Remember to keep an extra cart & battery where it's real easy to get to. I even put those two items in my pants pocket when I'm taping at a festival.

[Dodgy Nick]

Thanks for the ideas bluegrass, I appreciate it. I don't have a monopod unfortunately, but I have a very light and cheap tripod I can use with the legs closed I guess. Thing is, I'm only taking one with me, so I have to choose carefully. If I take the cheapo one, I can't pan nicely. If I take the DV7000, I can't use it like a small monopod on the stands...

As for quick access to batteries... That's what my girlfriend is for :hv20-smilie81: Luckily my bag is a shoulder bag, and I keep the batteries in one of the outside zip compartments, so quick access is guarenteed. I have 5 spare batteries, thanks to the EOS 350d's batteries being compatible with the HV20. All charged up and ready to go!

[Goose]

I have just filmed a demonstration by the Red Arrows. I did it all handheld since my tripod broke the day before! The footage came out pretty well considering it was handheld. I shot in 25p in cine mode with a high shutter speed (it was bright). I initially thought about 50i too but dont like the video look and actually 25p and the high shutter worked pretty well. I may put some footage online when I get chance to put some of the clips together. What I would say is that the planes moved pretty quick so using a tripod may have restricted my ability to get some shots. I had to zooom to full telephoto at times though which was tough but got some good close up shots of fly-by's etc. I had to move my body a lot to capture some of the fast moves.

[Dodgy Nick]

Trust "Goose" to have a say! Now where's Maverick? lol

Thanks for the feedback dude, I had exactly the same thoughts regarding the tripod, and will need to move my body quite a bit especially as the planes will be flying a couple of meters in front of us. I'm definitely taking ear plugs!

I'm not so sure about 25p though. I love the look, and use it for most everything else, but for cool looking slo-mo shots of high speed airoplanes I think 50i will be ACE! I haven't shot in 50i though, so not sure about de-interlacing etc. but it will be a good learning curve. Would be great to see your footage so I can learn some before I go and make up my mind on the 50i/25p issue.

Which shots looked best, the ones where you follow the path of the plane, or the ones where you follow for a bit and then let them fly out of the frame?

[Goose]

Hee Hee i promise my nickname is just coincidental!

Well the one big advantage of shooting 50i is the ability to make smoother slo mo. It wasnt something I intended to do so I went with 25p. To be honest it wasnt a planned shoot really. I didnt walk to the best spot and didnt have any time to prepare - it was just a bit of impomtu filming, some parts turned out to be alright!

I'll upload a little sampe now and when I get time Ill edit some more clips together. I should have enough for about 4-5 mins.

[Erik Bien]

Completely OT, but has anyone seen the Top Gun Recut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekXxi9IKZSA) yet?

[Goose]

That was quite funny!

Anyway here is a 40 sec clip showing some of the more shaky/closeup footage. It gives you an idea of what 25p/high shutter speed will look like when handheld at full telephoto and moving quick. The Sample is 42.8 MB in size (720p wm9 38 sec at 8mb/s)

http://hv20.info/yopu/Red Arrows CR Sample.wmv

Let me know your thoughts.

Edit:
it seems Filezilla didnt upload all the file and I'm having problems resuming or deleting it.
I have reuploaded (with a different filename) in full to:

http://hv20.info/yopu/Red Arrows Sample.wmv

Mods if you can del the orginal partial file I would appreciate it

cheers

[Dodgy Nick]

That was quite funny!

Anyway here is a 40 sec clip showing some of the more shaky/closeup footage. It gives you an idea of what 25p/high shutter speed will look like when handheld at full telephoto and moving quick. The Sample is 42.8 MB in size (720p wm9 38 sec at 8mb/s)

http://hv20.info/yopu/Red Arrows CR Sample.wmv

Let me know your thoughts.

Goose, that looks awesome my friend! You've got me all excited for this weekend now. You did a great job following them, a bit shakey at times, but still, good job nonetheless. Did you have OIS on? Looks like 25p did the job beautifully. Still, not sure if 25p will be enough for what I need with the planes being really close-by and fast moving. I think yours worked because they were far off.

I really liked the crossfade in the beginning, fading to a zoom-in shot of the formation. I can't wait to see your final edited footage. Thanks for sharing!

[Goose]

Thanks :)

From memory I think OIS was on yes. I will get on with a longer edit and post here to let you know when its done. I will start a new thread in the footage section when its ready.

Glad you liked it

By the way it seems the first file didnt upload completely. You probably didnt miss much but here is the full clip:
http://hv20.info/yopu/Red Arrows Sample.wmv

[Dodgy Nick]

You probably didnt miss much

I was wondering

a) why the filesize didn't match up with what you promised, and
b) where the audio went towards the end.

This explains it! Cool, downloading the new footage now. Thanks man, I really appreciate it. This forum is so cool, you guys rock! Where else can you ask for help, and then get footage within 2 hours helping you out?!?

[Worley]

I live not far from Biggin Hill, and the Arrows fly over every now and then. But I've never seen them as clearly as in that footage.

Nice!

[Goose]

Cheers Worley

more to come...

[John Watson]

Goose, they're great shots, especially as it's handheld at full zoom!

Couple of questions.. there seems to be very little panning blur.. you say it was shot at high shutter speed.. what was the shutter speed?

Also, did you manual focus for those shots (I'd have thought you have to) If so, did you use infinity?

cheers

[Goose]

Thanks

Yes the lack of panning blur would be down to the high shutter speed. I shot entirely in cine and didnt lock the exposure so cine mode automatically adjust the shutter up and down. I had a quick look before hand and it seemed to stick around 120. I chose not to lock the exposure and let cine do its own thing to see how it turned as I knew the shutter would stay high and would not dip below 50. when I post the longer edit you will see that if there was any change in shutter it wasnt too jarrring.

As for the focus, I left it on IAF which was only partially successful. I thought about manual focus but there was not way I could have manually adjusted quick enough with the planes moving so quick. I tried it at one point but there was too much going on trying to follow the planes and move my body etc. In the longer footage you will see occasional focus hunting. In retrospect using infinity focus would have been a better plan!

As an aside I am concerned that the IAF on my unit is not as good as it could be. I used to have the HV10 and when I compared the same scene with the HV10 I could zoom fully and stay in focus. With the HV20 it focus hunts really badly depending on the size of the subject, light etc. I am considering contacting canon about it as in some circumstances it just cant focus at all. If anyone has any views I would like to hear them.

Cheers

[Goose]

I've done a rough edit of a about 4 min now. Just waiting on my brother to do some music for it.

SW - have you decided how you are going to do your filming this weekend?

[Dodgy Nick]

I've done a rough edit of a about 4 min now. Just waiting on my brother to do some music for it.

SW - have you decided how you are going to do your filming this weekend?

I think you sold me on using cine mode and let the cam decide the shutter speed. However much I love the 25p mode, I think I'll use 50i (for the first time) this weekend. I have some ideas for what I want to do in post, e.g. a plane flying from left to right, then slow it right down as it passes the camera, and then let it run to full speed again as it flys away.

I just HATE interlaced footage though. That was one of the main reasons for me getting this cam. It shouldn't be a problem if done correctly in Vegas, right? If anybody has any tips regarding this, please let me know.

Thanks

[Goose]

Ok cool - well 50i will be absolutely fine - great for slo mo and more fluid if left at 50i. With VLC you can play back 50i as 50p by using the bob or linear deinterlace modes.

In Vegas you can render to a 25p m2t or to wmv etc with no problems. There will be a slight resolution loss when comparing deinterlaced 50i to true 25p buy hey. Vegas does do a good job of interpolating fields though. You also might not quite get the crisp look the same but I could be wrong (more motion blur?) 50i is a good option though as you can choose your output type whereas with 25p you are stuck with that.

I think cine mode is a good choice (so long as you can cc and sharpen etc in post) especially when filming skies as it prevents the blown out highlights/horrible video look. My testing has shown that while using TV mode and custom settings to -1 for contrast and brightness does help you still get blown out highlights too easily. You will have enough on your hands trying to focus and move etc without worrying about manual exposure too I think.

I'll be really interested to see your results!
Hope it goes well

[Dodgy Nick]

I'll be really interested to see your results!

Too much pressure!! You'll have to lower your expectations, I haven't been able to successfully edit ANY footage from my HV20 in Vegas yet due to some Vista 64 bit specific issues. Those should be resolved now though, so no more excuses...


Hope it goes well

Thanks, so do I.

A couple more questions: Should I use the wide angle lens or not? Infinity focus or IAF? Panning on a tripod or handheld? Ratio of zoomed in shots vs wider shots of planes flying by? I appreciate your input Goose (and everyone else), and looking forward to the rest of your footage.

Nick
:hv20-smilie31:

[Goose]

Well I went with IAf which worked about 85% of the time (its harder at telephoto) I chose not to use my wide angle for two reasons. The position I was standing in was wide enough and my lens is not zoom through and I wanted full telephot footage where possible to be in focus. I wish I had a WD-H43!! Really depends on your situation and choices I think.

Dont worry about any fancy edits - just a 50i clip will be cool. No worries if not though.

[Dodgy Nick]

Ok, the footage is up:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?p=12388#post12388

[Goose]

Red Arrows full footage is now here:

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1671