frame grabs

[fiona-w]

Hi - can someone confirm for me the best settings on the HV20 to get high quality frame grabs, please? I'm using PAL.

Thanks very much,

Fiona.

[2Bdecided]

HDV25p

If in bright light, and you don't care about the video itself: a very fast shutter speed

Cheers,
David.

[fiona-w]

That's what I thought; - thanks for the confirmation, David. Would using the
Cine Mode option have any bearing on the frame grab quality?

Also, you say,


... you don't care about the video itself: a very fast shutter speed ...

- what exactly do you mean?

Regards,

Fiona.

[2Bdecided]

The Cine mode is less likely to clip highlights, and is less sharpened - both of these characteristics could be useful to allow more post-processing (e.g. tweaking in photoshop). However, most people think images shot in Cine mode require tweaking (levels and gamma) so if you don't want to do that, don't use it.

If things are moving, there will be less motion blur on individual frames if you use a fast shutter speed - but when watching the video, a faster shutter speed will lead to strobey/stuttery motion, which can be quite objectionable.

Cheers,
David.

[fiona-w]

I get it - thanks again, David.

Fiona.

[dmfreeman]

You might want to do your frame grabs with a program like Topaz Moment. You can google for it and download a fully functional trial version. The program sells for about $40US. What it does is to combine data from several of the adjacent frames to produce a much more vibrant and clear image.

Hope this helps,
Denny

[2Bdecided]

Whilst there are good algorithms for that, the cheap commercial software I've tried that claims to do the job (including Topaz Moment) is quite horrible. YMMV.

Cheers,
David.

[bluegrass]

Whilst there are good algorithms for that, the cheap commercial software I've tried that claims to do the job (including Topaz Moment) is quite horrible. YMMV.

Cheers,
David.

I have frame grab capability built into Pinnancle Studio 11 but I'm not familiar whether it is built into other NLE's or not. Are you saying not to waste my time with downloading a program such as Topaz Moment, that it will produce horrible results? That suprises me that you would say that, but than again I know nothing about frame grab software applications.

I'm beginning to want to use frame grabs to use in cover designs of some of my DVD's that I might market and it would be nice to know how to obtain the best quality frame grabs.

Actually I thought fiona-w was asking more about what software to do a frame grab with rather than what settings to use in the camcorder. I would never plan on shooting video with best settings to do frame grabs but would always use the best settings for shooting the video.

[fiona-w]

Actually I thought fiona-w was asking more about what software to do a frame grab with rather than what settings to use in the camcorder. I would never plan on shooting video with best settings to do frame grabs but would always use the best settings for shooting the video.

Hi bluegrass - I WAS actually asking about the camcorder settings not the software. I use the camcorder to film my subject then take the frame grabs I want for stills. I almost exclusively do portraits (mainly children) and usually they're as informal as possible. David asked earlier if I'm bothered about the video; the answer's no, not at all. (I often rotate the cam 90 degrees to frame the shot in portrait mode, much as an SLR ,so the video's useless anyway). The reason I take frame grabs not stills to SD card is because kids move so quick and I want fluid, relaxed shots which I know I can get at the editing stage. This technique obviously comes at a price re: resolution but I'm willing to sacrifice this in exchange for capturing 'THE moment/moments'). But, because of this compromise, I want to optimise the frame quality as much as I can. So, I film in progressive mode and capture frames using a jog shuttle and Vegas Movie Studio (which offers the highest capture quality I've found so far).

I have got Topaz Moment (v3.4) but haven't used it for ages as it only allows batch capture every second so I lose a lot of frames in between. Plus the frame capture was lower quality than what I could achieve under Vegas. Denny's post however, prompted me to check TM out again and I see there's a new version with several enhancements so I'll look at it again.

My original query was prompted by my general lack of technical knowledge re the HV20 and confusion about the 'cine' mode.

Any advice on frame-grab techniques would be very welcome, as would info on newer/better batch capturing applications!

Thanks very much,

Regards,

Fiona.

[racer-x]

I use Virtualdub for all my frame grabs, but any NLE can export any frame.

For what you're doing (portraits of children ect.), you'd be much better off using a good DSLR and shoot in Burst Mode like 3 fps. The quality will be much better and you'll still get lots of good shots to choose from.

[2Bdecided]

3 fps? You know some slow children! ;)

As for whether the HV20 is good enough quality for stills, used in this manner with good lighting - it depends how big you want to print them, and how much you are charging. The results can be surprising.

With unfortunate lighting / subjects, I find the HV20's purple fringing to be more limiting than the resolution itself.

Of course for stills to print at larger sizes, I'd like far more resolution - but it's amazing what some people will accept as a "good" photograph! Many "normal" people don't notice if it's sharp or not.


FWIW I've done quite a few 6x4 prints from SD interlaced video which people have loved. They are very soft, but sometimes they capture a moment that was otherwise lost and people treasure them.

Cheers,
David.

[fiona-w]

Interesting replies. Having discovered the 'grab' method of photography I abandonded all other in it's favour as, for me, the expression/moment is the most important part of a portrait. I wasn't a skilled enough technical photographer to wrestle with manual focusing/exposure/etc as well as getting the exact shot. In the old 35mm days of 'one or two decent shots from a roll of 36' wasn't good enough. Since I went down this route, the response "you've captured them as they really are" has been routine and no-one has ever said "beautiful expression - shame about the resolution, though ..." - I can capture action and spontinaity as I never could before.

However, I always want to improve technically and make my life easier, hence the original post.

Racer-x, thanks for directing me back to Virtualdub which I haven't looked at for ages. The version I originally looked at captured frames at a lower quality than Vegas (maybe that was just me not using it right) so I left it. Now I see there's an MPeg-2 version that does look good for me; so thanks again. I also like it's flexibility of capturing a user-defined range of frames (i.e. every one, alternate frames etc). The problem with Topaz was that I couldn't capture more than 1 frame per second - when you've had 25 at your disposal this is too rigid.

You also sent me back into the DSLR world which I haven't explored for ages.

One camera looked very tempting - the Olympus-E3. A feature ESSENTIAL to me that I haven't mentioned before is a rotating LCD screen (as large as possible - in reality this means 2.5"; on my last non-HD camcorder it was 3"). On almost every shoot, I will use this to rotate and face the child. Simple - saves me having to tie myself in knots attracting their attention as almost every child loves looking at themselves more than anything; they're intrigued, they smile, they make eye contact; lovely. They even clamour to be in the shot if there's a group of them - saves me having to coax them to get close; they do it withour thinking.

The E3 has a rotating screen:hv20-smilie03: ;it's weatherproof :hv20-smilie03:and takes up to 6 shots per second that will be excellent quality but I THINK it shuts off the viewfinder when you rotate the LCD forward (I'll have to check that). If so, I'd be shooting blind and have to abandon this method. The E-3 also has the draw back of being a fairly cumbersome barrier between me and my subject. With the HV20, the screen and lens are pretty much aligned and there's no obscuring of the screen by a protruding lens; unfortunately not so with a DSLR (or the 35mm DoF rigs discussed on this forum which I'm VERY tempted by). DoF is the one feature I badly miss from an SLR but I'm experimenting with netrate's Lytecap to help with this.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble and thanks for the help - it's much appreciated.

Fiona

[2Bdecided]

For that purpose, you could always attach a small LCD monitor and put it right next to the camera - many cameras allow this (not all DSLRs, as "live view" is still comparatively rare) and it would leave the camera's LCD for your use.

Cheers,
David.

[fiona-w]

For that purpose, you could always attach a small LCD monitor and put it right next to the camera - many cameras allow this (not all DSLRs, as "live view" is still comparatively rare) and it would leave the camera's LCD for your use.



I've experimented in the past attaching a 7" monitor to the hot shoe (when I used a Sony TRV80). This was OK for studio style shoots but I found it too unwieldy when I was out and about in the park/beach/school playground etc. I also take a lot of shots during lessons in a classroom situation. There, the LCD comes into it's own as it's so easy to flip out when appropriate to attract kids attention but flip back when I want to just observe them unobtrusively. I also had to carry a big brick battery pack to power it. Not that I'm fussy or anything ... :hv20-smilie03:

Fiona.