Tripod for HV20 recommendations [Archive] - High Definition Digital Video Forum

Mal

2007 April 23rd, 18:36

By the way Mal, I noticed a nice looking tripod in one of your photos. I graduated from a Walmart to a $90 Best Buy.

Ha! Well, tripods deserve their own CATEGORY.
The thing is, the HV20 has a wide user-base coming from all sorts of levels of videography. Some here have tripods costing $1000+.

That chintzy Matthews Tripod in those photos is a REAL cheapo thing; and I am not sure if they even still make it.
If you go to B&H, look for a tripod with a 501 Bogen head. The consensus is that that's about as "cheap" as you want to go. It's not a true fluid head, as none of those are at that price, but it offers okay pans for the money. If you can afford it, the 503 is a bit better.
On eBay, some rave about the 9903 from AMVONA, although now you're getting into big & quite heavy stuff, and it might be mismatched for the HV20.
Goes normally for around $310 or so.

24Peter

2007 April 24th, 11:02

On the tripod thing, I have a couple of heavy duty ones but they're too much for this little camera, at least for average shooting. But I had one of these in my closet for the last few years gathering dust and it turns out to be about perfect for the HV20. Great fluid head, very light weight, reasonably stable, very tall extended length - all for $69.95 http://www.adorama.com/VNV607.html?searchinfo=velbon%20607&item_no=1

David

2007 April 24th, 11:36

http://www.adorama.com/VNV607.html?searchinfo=velbon%20607&item_no=1

I've seen this tripod mentioned/suggested on other forums as well. I may pick one up (if my camera ever gets back in stock and delivered)

Mal

2007 April 24th, 12:15

Well, I guess I've been spoilt, because I honestly could NOT go back to use that VELBON again.
For the price, it might be one of the better ones, but with the HV20 being such high rez., I'd be concerned about sturdiness and smoothness in panning.

It is NOT a real fluid head of course, although this terminology is often used by others too, including Bogen (pretty much no heads are real fluid heads that cost $500 or less).

I did check to see what my chintzy one is, and although it has a Matthews sticker, I believe now it is in fact a LIBEC TH-M20, which can be had for $180:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=5167&A=details&Q=&sku=131444&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

I'd say that's probably the ABSOLUTE minum I'd be comfortable with.

In addition to a decently smooth head, it also has a CLAW BALL which will make leveling of the head (and cam) MUCH MUCH easier than the VELBON which uses a center column.

The cheapest Bogen tripod/head combo I could find that has a half-ball is this one for about $372 (this now has the new 501HDV head):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=481954&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

I think spending about two three hundred dollars for a semi-decent tripod should be worth it for the HV20, and the difference between those two mentioned tripods and the VELBON is like NIGHT and DAY.

bluegrass

2007 April 24th, 15:40

OK, Mal. Your getting pretty good at spending my money but I think you're really keeping me on the right track. I did some research and although you can piece meal this together, the cost was about the same, so why bother. The 35mm adapter will have to wait until perhaps the fall and in the meantime, I can get grounded with the "twenty" before moving on to more ad-ons. I did order the Canon HD wideangle and the antiglare filter you recommeded. I can see now that I'm gonna' have to make this hobby produce some $$ someday for me. I'll order the tripod next week. Mal calls it a Chevy but to me it is at least a Corvette. I can't wait to put my $350 Canon Elura 100 on it. Of course the "Twenty" will have major priority soon when it comes in. They'll be no more jumps in my pans this year at Bean Blossom.

Here is some more information on tripod I dug up on Amazon & the link you gave above to B&H:

The Bogen/Manfrotto 745B 2-stage aluminum tripod with 501HDV fluid head is intended for high-definition camcorders weighing up to 11 lbs (5 kg). It features extra smooth fluid-dampened pan and tilt movements with separate locks, 50mm half-ball leveling, and fast-action stage clamps. One camera plate is included, and the system is covered by a 2-year warranty with an additional 3 years by registering online or by mail.

Two-stage aluminum tripod specifically geared towards the "on-the-go" videographers looking for a simple, straightforward, and affordable tripod without sacrificing the key virtue of stability. With a maximum load capacity of 13.2 pounds, the new Manfrotto 745B video tripod is designed to handle payloads commonly associated with Mini DV or DVCAM. An integrated 50mm leveling ball allows for quick set up with +/-15 degrees of leveling capability. The 745B is ideal for travel, quickly folding up to a compact 24.8 inches and weighing only 5.3 pounds. For applications that demand full extension, the 745B has a maximum working height of 138 centimeters and for any situation where the shot is low, the 745B can provide support as low as 8.7 inches with all three legs opened to a full 90 degrees.

The 501HDV includes a powerful new feature inspired by our top professional video head models a fixed counterbalance spring (set for a typical weight of camera + accessories of 5.5 lbs.) that helps ensure both smoother tilt movements and greater equipment safety even when tilt locks are inadvertently left off. The easy-to-reach on/off switch allows the counterbalance system to be disengaged or re-engaged for different filming setups. From the outside, the first thing that you'll notice about the new 501HDV video head is its updated design completely retuned for much improved ergonomics with locks and knobs that allow a more solid gripand better fingertip control. The 501HDV inherits its separate pan and tilt locks, gradual tilt friction adjustment system, flat base (with standard 3/8" thread), quick release camera plate and repositionable pan bar from its successful predecessor.

Mal

2007 April 24th, 16:33

David

2007 April 25th, 02:02

Well, I guess I've been spoilt, because I honestly could NOT go back to use that VELBON again.

That's really good to know. I currently have a Libec TH-650 (discontinued, but looks similar to the M20 you linked) and I was thinking it might be too heavy duty for the HV20. I was going to sell it and get that Velbon, but now that I've ready your post I'm thinking 'no way'.

I've used Bogens on and off for the last 10 years and never really liked any of them, yet people on the forums swear by them, so I guess it's all relative, but I'm really glad you posted your feelings about that Velbon versus the Libec. Saved me $80, if not more.

24Peter

2007 April 25th, 11:34

That's really good to know. I currently have a Libec TH-650 (discontinued, but looks similar to the M20 you linked) and I was thinking it might be too heavy duty for the HV20. I was going to sell it and get that Velbon, but now that I've ready your post I'm thinking 'no way'.

Shot with the 607 yesterday. Pans are gorgeous with the HV20. Best US$70 I [n]ever spent. :hv20-smilie81:

bluegrass

2007 April 25th, 11:38

Yeah, keep in mind that the Bogen tripod/head combo might be "starved" for weight with ONLY the HV20. But it should work VERY WELL if you, either
1) add some weight like a flat steel plate, or
2) add a 35mm adapter, or
3) add a microphone and Beachtek adapter, or
4) add an on-cam light, or
5) add a matte box/sun shade, or
6) any combination of the abve....

:)

Money, money, money. Fun, fun, fun. My only concern is how difficult it will be, carrying it from my tent to the stage area at festivals about 5 or 6 times a day.

Well, I already have the mic-line adaptor (I discovered external mics are the way to go to improve your audio - I've been using up to 5 of them at jams mixed down and fed to the adpator).

From reading and viewing samples, I have got to get a 35mm DOF adaptor. From infornmation here and elsewhere, I see there are several to choose from. Maybe the choice will be narrowed by following other folks experiences as they discuss them on this forum. Between this HV20 forum and it sending me on excursions across the net, I already feel like I've learned a ton and have tons more to learn.

I also like the idea of adding a small LCD monitor to the mix, especially when I get the 35mm adaptor functioning. I'm not sure how these things would mount. I actually was using a 9" portable DVD player that had a composite in I could feed from the camcorder. I guess that won't function right though if I'm taping HDV. Could someone design a portable studio package that would fit on one of those foldup dollys. I'm thinking of using a marine battery with a 300watt AC adaptor as the base of my portable package which would hold a few mic stands, small mixer, mics, tripod, camcorder & misc. If you see some wierdo pulling this dolly with strange things attached to it over to your camp jam or up to the stage area at a festival, that would be me.

By the way, I really like the way this forum is laid out. I'm thinking of setting one up for my music website with the same software.

Mal

2007 April 25th, 12:21

Shot with the 607 yesterday. Pans are gorgeous with the HV20. Best US$70 I [n]ever spent. :hv20-smilie81:

:hv20-smilie77:
Makes me want to go get one and try it out!
I do like a small tripod to travel with, but my Libec TH-M20 has served me well so far.

David

2007 April 26th, 01:15

Shot with the 607 yesterday. Pans are gorgeous with the HV20. Best US$70 I [n]ever spent. :hv20-smilie81:

:hv20-smilie77:
Makes me want to go get one and try it out!

:hv20-smilie51: I guess I'm confused. I thought you (Mal) posted earlier that you had used this Velbon and it was no good.

I honestly could NOT go back to use that VELBON again.

24Peter, do you have any other tripod use you could use to compare to the Velbon 607? Any model you've used that's better or worse? Like I said, I'd read good things about the 607 but 'good' is subjective and it's difficult to know what those who praise it are comparing it to.

Thanks

Mal

2007 April 26th, 08:21

:hv20-smilie51: I guess I'm confused. I thought you (Mal) posted earlier that you had used this Velbon and it was no good.

Yeah, I apologize; I should have written "I used SEVERAL Velbon tripods". I actually do not know whether it was exactly this model or not. I do recall paying about that for one of them, and NOT being happy with it. AT ALL.
But this is all quite a while ago, and maybe this exact model is FANTASTIC....I just doubt it very much...
One of them I bought in Walmart because I was on location, and needed something FAST. I threw it away soon after....it wasn't good.

Rico

2007 April 27th, 12:30

I used a Velbon DV-7000 Professional Video tripod today, I thought it was pretty good to be honest, I think you would have to pay two or three times the cost of one of these to get much better.

Numbox

2007 May 14th, 06:36

Are vanguard tripods any good? Not much is available in my area and these seem to be the best of the bunch :(

Rico

2007 May 18th, 08:38

Hi

I just got myself a Velbon DV-7000 Tripod, I am very pleased with it, it's solid (built very well and to last) and very smooth, I tried a few more expensive manfroto tripods but in the end I felt the DV-7000 was as good (if not better IMO) at a fraction of the price, I Don't recommend the DV-6000 tho as it's not very solid and it's to light, the DV-7000 tho is solid and just heavy enough to hold it steady without additional weights, so it gets my High recombination, I find it a pleasure to use, very smooth pan's, Just thought someone may be interested:)

hizbiz

2007 May 18th, 13:06

can anyone recommend me any good tripod head?
I was thinking about the 700RC2 which is light so might be best for HV20. But it does not have good reviews at Amazon as compared to 701RC2. Maybe I should get that.
Is there any alternative around that price? :hv20-smilie51:

Dodgy Nick

2007 May 20th, 13:48

David Susilo

2007 May 24th, 08:24

I use Manfrotto 055MF3 legs and 701RC2 heads (yes plural, I have three sets, I put one set in the car, one set in the studio, and another as a backup)

maybe I should sell the backup since I never use it anyway. Any taker?

hizbiz

2007 May 24th, 14:24

David,
How do you find the hv20 with 701RC2? Are thee pans smooth??

David Susilo

2007 May 24th, 19:58

David,
How do you find the hv20 with 701RC2? Are thee pans smooth??

Like butter! Smoother still with the 501 but I can't afford to buy 3 units of 501 :hv20-smilie119:

hizbiz

2007 May 25th, 11:18

Like butter! Smoother still with the 501 but I can't afford to buy 3 units of 501 :hv20-smilie119:

Thanks David! At least I know now that 701RC2 is OK. I have to figure out about 700RC2 now!

John Watson

2007 May 28th, 13:01

Thanks for the recommendation Rico, I went out and tried the DV-7000 today, loved it, and bought it, along with a padded bag for the tripod and a BP-2L14 long life battery. :hv20-smilie77:

Can anyone who owns a DV-7000 comment on it's size and weight?

I need a tripod that's easy to carry around. My current one is cheap you can't pan it without loads of stops and jumps.. but it's light and fits in a backpack.

The most important thing to me is the ability to pan around smoothly but after that I'd like it to be as small and light as possible. The DV-7000 is affordable and the comments here about it's panning seem good. It's just the size and weight of it that worries me. Could you carry it easily on, say, a 20 mile hilly walk?

If not, can anyone recommend such a tripod that doesn't cost more than about £250?

sp8ce07

2007 May 29th, 03:49

can anyone post pictures of their DV7000?

crewe1000

2007 June 3rd, 15:41

Ok, this is where I ask for a little help please.

I've bought most of my accessories thus far through reading on this and a few other forums and have been satisfied so far.

I'm now at the tripod stage and trying to understand the benefits of fluid heads etc is proving quite challenging for a simple person like me. I currently have a cheap £40 tripod which I rarely use but hope to do more tripod work with my HV20 as this will enable me to capture the best footage in certain circumstances.

What I'm finding difficult to understand is whether or not a novice like myself will actually benefit from a manfrotto ( After reading I'm seriously looking at the 351MVB2 & 503 head) or would I be ok with my cheapo no name tripod?

What would be helpful is if someone or some of you could explain some of the benefits for a novice in buying a more distinguished tripod and perhaps some of the negatives. I would value your opinions as they will help me towards making a final decision.

Thanks:hv20-smilie77:

David Susilo

2007 June 3rd, 15:47

I honestly think that even a Velbon Sherpa will suffice for most applications.

The only reasons I use Manfrotto:
1. I already have Manfrotto legs from my still-photo business
2. I already have a handful of RC2 plates from my still-photo business
3. I've been using Manfrotto since 1992

so all I need to do is get the heads.

However, I think the 503 is overkill for the HV20 (with all accessories tacked on). 701RC2 is way sufficient. (as mentioned on another thread, I own 3 of the 701RC2, one being an unused backup -- which to this day I don't understand why do I need a backup considering none of my Manfrotto head ever failed on me)

sp8ce07

2007 June 3rd, 15:54

I'm looking for more info on the Velbon DV7000. Some reviewers had talked about whether or not it was a true liquid head - and if that was actually the case. If anyone has some photos of the HV20 in use on the tripod, and maybe some actual video of panning and use that would be great! I've used two tripods over the last couple months and both had been poor at steady panning. They would jerk or hesitate at different points which would hurt the ability to pan smoothly.

The price of the Velbon is also in my range.

crewe1000

2007 June 3rd, 15:54

Just checked out the Velbon Sherpa's and they are MUCH more comfortable on the wallet.

The 701RC2 also looks so much cheaper retailing at £78.99. Could you recommend any types of legs David that would suit this please.

Cheers

David Susilo

2007 June 3rd, 15:56

I use 055MF3 and I like them (yes, I also have 3 of them)

sp8ce07

2007 June 3rd, 15:58

Can you guys post some links to the products you are discussing? Thanks.

David Susilo

2007 June 3rd, 15:58

sp8ce07

2007 June 3rd, 16:01

So I guess the debate is the best "non" liquid, liquid head available in the price range that is not a true liquid/fluid head.

David Susilo

2007 June 3rd, 16:03

Can you guys post some links to the products you are discussing? Thanks.

Manfrotto 055MF3:

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/tripod/manfrotto-055mf3/1034779/

Manfrotto 701RC2:

http://www.digiscoped.com/manfrotto701RC2.html

Velbon Sherpa 200R

http://www.velbon-tripod.com/sherpa.htm

Velbon Video DV700 (scroll all the way down)

http://www.velbon-tripod.com/video.htm

:hv20-smilie24:

David Susilo

2007 June 3rd, 16:05

So I guess the debate is the best "non" liquid, liquid head available in the price range that is not a true liquid/fluid head.

Don't quote me on the "trueness" of the liquid head, it's just my conjencture that liquid heads can't be that cheap... yet cheap doesn't always mean bad :hv20-smilie81:

crewe1000

2007 June 3rd, 16:09

Wow, thanks David, very helpful.

With regards to liquid and non liquid, is the difference, the fluidity of the movement?

sp8ce07

2007 June 3rd, 16:12

Mal

2007 June 3rd, 17:20

Liquid vs. non-liquid:
most of these heads AREN'T true liquid heads. Up to the 503 (in price general, and Bogen specific number) are NOT really fluid heads in the true sense. They use some "gel" type substance that two plates "rub" against; but for the actual LIQUID capsule heads you'd have to spend a lot more, namely $550+ starting with Bogen 516.

The "gel friction" heads are perfectly fine though and perform well, but calling them true fluid heads is a bit of a stretch, at least because of what "fluid heads" normally are/were associated with.

Michael Hackney

2007 June 3rd, 17:24

I think the reason I chose the to purchase the 503 is also planning for the future. A lot may say it's "overkill" for the HV20 and I do agree in some sense. If you are just a hobbyist and don't plan on taking your filming anywhere other than family events, then get whatever you can afford that's good. I figured that since a tripod is the most crucial investment you can probably make other than the camcorder, I wanted something that I could still use years from now and have it be great quality. Or a few months down the line if I get a bigger HDV camera, I still have this great tripod and can get a cheaper supplementary for the HV20. All in all I guess I figured if I'm gonna spend over a hundred bucks anyways, might as well spend a couple more for the really good tripod. Kinda like getting the HV20 instead of a DVX100b (maybe not a good analogy), in which case, I'm getting HDV instead of just DV, because I'm looking to the future and HD(V) is where it's at..

crewe1000

2007 June 3rd, 17:48

Thanks for all your thoughts guys. I'm still undecided and will have to sleep on it I think before my brain explodes.:hv20-smilie31:

I'm looking at the following heads-503 & 701RC2. I cant find the 055 legs here so may have to get the 351MVB2 ones or to totally save money and probably still do the job for me, one of the Velban Sherpa tripods.

David Susilo

2007 June 3rd, 18:29

So in the case of those links, the two Manfrotto ones are for a head and a tripod. Meaning, you have suggested that head and that tripod. Whereas the other two include a head and the legs in one package.

the "more pro" equipments are modular. So you can have 055MF3 with 322RC2 head (as I use them for still photo) and just change it with 701RC2 when I need to use a tripod for my videos. The Velbon heads are not interchangeable. I don't think you can even take them off.

David Susilo

2007 June 3rd, 18:31

I cant find the 055 legs here so may have to get the 351MVB2 ones or to totally save money and probably still do the job for me, one of the Velban Sherpa tripods.

You don't have to use 055 legs (which is pricey), you can use any Manfrotto legs for those heads. :hv20-smilie70:

sp8ce07

2007 June 3rd, 22:18

the "more pro" equipments are modular. So you can have 055MF3 with 322RC2 head (as I use them for still photo) and just change it with 701RC2 when I need to use a tripod for my videos. The Velbon heads are not interchangeable. I don't think you can even take them off.

You may have covered this already, but what it your setup currently? Tripod + head? The tripod you use for video/filiming.

David Susilo

2007 June 3rd, 23:46

as mentioned in the quote you quoted. My setup is 055MF3 + 701RC2 for video and 055MF3 + 322RC2 for still photo.

hizbiz

2007 June 4th, 00:02

Don't quote me on the "trueness" of the liquid head, it's just my conjencture that liquid heads can't be that cheap... yet cheap doesn't always mean bad :hv20-smilie81:

David,
Just FYI, in another forum one person from Manfrotto was commenting on these cheap fluid heads (700RC2- 503RC2). And according to him they ARE TRUE FLUID having some kind of fluid cartridge in them. Though many users had the same impression as you and thought they use some kind of gel.

Anyway I don't care whether they are true or pseudo fluid as long as they give me smooth pans and tilts I am happy! :hv20-smilie31:

pascalbrown

2007 June 8th, 11:45

I think I'm going to buy a Sherpa 600. Can someone tell me if I'm making a mistake. I don't really want to pay any more than £80. So if there are any suggestions for this price range please inform me.

Thank you.

24Peter

2007 June 8th, 12:52

Cheep and good features for the price: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/146249-REG/Velbon_VMATE607F_Videomate_607_Tripod_with.html

pascalbrown

2007 June 8th, 14:46

how about this;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/velbon-d-700-vel-flo-9-ph-368-head-pro-video-tripod_W0QQitemZ190118947691QQihZ009QQcategoryZ332 5QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

only £50 which is good!

revlution08

2007 June 10th, 20:31

is there a big difference between these two tripods? i have heard good reviews about both. so i was wondering will i get the same out of the velbon even though its cheaper. or is the libec better?

libec
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/131444-REG/Libec_THM20_TH_M20_Aluminum_2_Stage_Tripod.html

and...this velbon
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/366741-REG/Velbon_DV7000_DV_7000_Tripod_with_2_Way.html

Numbox

2007 June 11th, 07:11

I finally found a store that has good tripods, so i need a recomendation. They have Manfrottos, so guess i'll have to buy that. So, can anyone recommend a reasonably priced one and head for it? It's a bit difficult to say what "reasonably" means for me, since things are much expensive here, but lets say somewhere around 300$ for tripod. Don't know how high i would go with the head though.

For instance, this one: MANFROTTO 745B MDEVE TRIPOD BLACK WITHOUT C.C is in my price range, but what does "without C.C." means?

Mal

2007 June 11th, 07:24

For instance, this one: MANFROTTO 745B MDEVE TRIPOD BLACK WITHOUT C.C is in my price range, but what does "without C.C." means?

That looks fine. CC would be Center Column. If the one you are looking at is like this one:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/341508-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_745B_745B_MDeVe_Aluminum_Tripod.ht ml
it should work fine.

That page also lists a head, the 501HDV which should be fine also (although I've never tried it myself). Or look at the "normal" 501 head (entry level head, which is okay.)

501HDV:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/481667-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_501HDV_501HDV_Fluid_Video_Head.htm l#goto_itemInfo
has one bad review, although not sure if that's enough feedback to be accurate

501:
lloks like B&H doesn't sell this one anymore? Maybe the 501HDV simply replaced it, not sure.

Numbox

2007 June 11th, 07:37

That looks fine. CC would be Center Column. If the one you are looking at is like this one:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/341508-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_745B_745B_MDeVe_Aluminum_Tripod.ht ml
it should work fine.

That page also lists a head, the 501HDV which should be fine also (although I've never tried it myself). Or look at the "normal" 501 head (entry level head, which is okay.)

What about this - 701RC2+745B+MBAG80 KIT?

http://www.adorama.com/images/Product/BG701RC2.JPG

What's the difference between normal head and a fluid one? I was under the impression that all of them can be rotated full 360 degrees. This combo is much cheaper than the head you recommended. Would it be ok?

EDIT: read the thread once again, got it now :D

crewe1000

2007 June 11th, 12:51

Thanks to all the advice received on this thread. I have just received the Manfrotto 755B legs and the 701RC2 head as an all in one kit and it feels and looks great. I cant wait to get going with it. Also for good measure I have also received the Manfrotto MN560B Monopod.

This is the first 'proper' tripod that I have used and straight away the quality difference is very noticeable.

revlution08

2007 June 11th, 14:22

well i just placed an order with b/h photovideo with the following
1.rode videomic
2.velbon dv-7000
3.hoya circular polarizer glass filter
4.and..a snap on lens cap.

Now the waiting game begins!:hv20-smilie03:

veg

2007 June 11th, 18:51

Very long, and interesting, thread this..and I don't have time to read all the posts. (It's been a long day!). So apologies if this was mentioned earlier.
One of the most important tests for a tripod is to put your camera on it and check the 'tensioning' of the head.
To do this you should take off all head tilt friction and tilt the camera down (or up) to 45 degrees. Take your hands of the pan bar and watch what the head does to the camera. Does it flop down? (0r up?)... or does it try to return to the horizontal?. Most importantly... does the head have the ability to correct any inherent movement? (A tension control).

An Aside...
Interesting that this camera is generating so much interest in tripods and stabilisation.

sp8ce07

2007 June 21st, 04:13

I have just received my 701rc2 Head from Manfrotto. In addition, after much searching I have found solid proof that in fact, this is a TRUE fluid head. Will post a review later!

mbwkrause

2007 June 21st, 09:52

If it were so, it would be the worst TRUE fluid head ever...

David Susilo

2007 June 21st, 10:23

If it were so, it would be the worst TRUE fluid head ever...

agreed. I've used true fluid heads and the 701RC2 is nowhere near the fluidity of a fluid head. The price is just too low for a fluid head. (yeah I know, the website claims that it's a true fluid head. It is definitely not, however)

sp8ce07

2007 June 21st, 12:41

Is the resounding theme that all fluid heads must be manufactured and therefore feel the same? I would highly doubt it. To assume, and then write off all suggestion that it is a version of a fluid head in my opinion is naive. Is Manfrotto and other dealers completely incapable of producing an affordable and therefore unique head? Again, I highly doubt it.

My reference to this was found in a thread and post by a Manfrotto Product General Manager who responded in another forum about the validity on whether or not it was fluid. I will post it tonight.

Lastly, I would be hard pressed to say that this head, which retails for around 110 dollars, would fall under the "worst" category. For the price, features, and relative ability, this is still one of the best selling and most widely used heads amongst people who do not fall under the professional category.

Should a 500+ dollar head perform better than the 701rc2? I would certainly hope so. Could they still both fall under the fluid head category? Of course.

mbwkrause

2007 June 21st, 13:26

I tried the 701rc2 and the 501 HDV @ B&H and there are like night and day. Not that the 501 would be a "real" fluid head but moneywise it's in the same ball park as the 701. That's the reason why I think the 701 is "the worst", that's all. I don't really care what it is anyway as long as it gets the job done...

sp8ce07

2007 June 21st, 14:30

I understand what you are saying.

Here is the Manfrotto employee responded to the "fluid" head questions regarding several of the cheaper heads.

****************************************

The real question is what makes a fluid head truly fluid. Manfrotto has been able to offer true fluid technology for many years and is not a recent development to our head family. The key to the various heads (and what sets them apart) is control. Technically speaking ALL Manfrotto pro video heads are fluid – the heads all contain fluid cartridges as the mechanism to tilt and pan. It’s how one applies drag to the fluid cartridges that set the heads apart from each other. For example, the 700RC2 and 701RC2 are true fluid heads in that all movement is riding on bed of fluid (within the cartridge). But there is limited control of drag for the tilt/pan which can only be achieved by using the pan/tilt lock lever.

The 501 is similar but offers more control over your tilt/pan drag in that a separate dial has been added which applies a Teflon plate onto the tilt mechanism to apply a drag. That is, the 501 is still moving within a fluid cartridge system, but one applies a friction resistance to achieve drag. Hence, it is much better than the 700RC2 and 701RC2 in controlling tilt / pan motion, but one can still feel a slight hiccup when starting/stopping a camera movement when the friction drag is applied (but nowhere near as noticeable if using the pan/tilt lock lever to control drag as with the above 700Rc2 and 701RC2)

The 503, 516 and the new 519 are very similar to the 501 as far as fluid cartridges is concerned, but instead of applying a friction method to control drag, one reduces or increases the amount of fluid in the cartridge to create drag. This system is by far the smoothest as there is never any hard friction applied to create a drag – only a fluid method. This system produces an overall smoother camera move as the fluid is being used to control movement. Many people refer to this group of heads as ‘true’ fluid because the method of drag is contained in the fluid and when comparing the 503 to the 501, the 503 is much smoother when the drag is applied.

The 510 head (since discontinued) is one of our heads that utilize 3 separate fluid cartridges to create drag. That is, one can choose between three different modes of drag (light, medium and heavy – numbered 1, 2 and 3) plus a zero fluid (numbered ‘0’ which bypasses all cartridges and the head is literally free-floating --great for whip pans / tilts).

We used to have, but also since discontinued, the 505 head (VERY similar to the Gitzo G1380),which used a different type of drag control. It can best be described as a ‘pressure control’ system (or Lubricated Friction as Matt noted) of fluid drag on the cartridges, whereas the above 503, 516 and 519 can best be described as ‘volume control’ as the amount of fluid in the cartridges is adjusted to increase/decrease the drag.

So, hopefully I was able to explain this without making the issue more confusing. The 701RC2 is a tremendous fluid head that provides beautiful results without a significant investment. You won’t have all the control capabilities that our high-end heads contain, but that’s why Manfrotto offers a full range for most any application from 22lbs (10kg) down to your smallest DV camera. And in the case of the 519 head, you can use this same head to support your lightweight DV camera all the way up to your 22 lbs load!

Marc Schotland
Manfrotto
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Mike

2007 June 22nd, 09:33

BarnOwl

2007 June 22nd, 11:45

Need a monopod for travel and was thinking of getting the 560B. Now there is a 561B for $75 more. It looks like the 560B does not have a pan handle (seems to me this would be helpful panning). For those in the know, need your opinions please. Thanks'

I don't see the need for a pan-handle on a monopod as you can pan the complete setup by itself.

For a not-too expensive and light travel companion I use the Manfrotto 676B Digi Monopod & 3229 Head. Works like a great stabilizer too.

I like it a lot......

sp8ce07

2007 June 22nd, 12:37

I received my 676B Digi Monopod & 3229 head yesterday. Literally had no time to practice or set it up as I was immediately at a location where I needed to shoot. In its simple case, preassembled - I attached the head and bam, I was up and running. It's plenty tall - great price, feels REAL stable.

The HEAD is SOLID. That camera is not falling out. Very easy to move around with - quick fold up, expand. I'm very pleased.

Mike

2007 June 22nd, 20:31

Thanks fellas for your input on the 676B with 3229 head. It certainly is less expensive and lighter. I guess I thought that the fluid (cartridge fluid) head
701RC2 would somehow be best. Maybe for a tripod, but aparently not for a monopod.

David Susilo

2007 June 22nd, 20:44

yeah, I don't think one can use the 701RC2 properly on a monopod.

miglo

2007 July 2nd, 09:23

I finally put together my tripod system:

Slik PRO-340DX Leggs
Manfrotto/Bogen 701RC2 head

Fantastic system! The head is smooth as butter for pans and tilts, although a little big. The leggs are sharp looking and very portable (my biggest criteria for choosing these).

I'll post some pix when I get home from work.

zephyrnoid

2007 July 6th, 00:33

David

2007 July 6th, 04:10

I've used this for my Digicam for 5 years and will use it for the HV20! An amazing tripod, even at what I paid- $89.00
Titanium Legs. The head is not bad for the price. Never felt a need to change the head!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Velbon-MAXi-343e-tripod_W0QQitemZ190129146840QQihZ009QQcategoryZ300 94QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

No offense to you, zephyrnoid, but I think your post is a good example of how people should look skepticlly at tripod recommendations from others, particularly if you aren't sure of what equipment the recommender has and hasn't ever used in their lives.

That tripod you're linked to is really in no way suitable for a video camera. That's a still camera tripod. If you have a camera that will never move at all while it's shooting like a security camera in the corner of a room, then I'm sure that tripod is fine, but I would never ever ever ever ever recommend that to anybody for a video camera.

This thread is full of discussion about true fluid heads vs pseudo fluid heads and the tripod you describe as "amazing" can't be used for panning or tilting at all. It's not that it's not a fluid head or even a fake fluid head, it's a head that's intended to be locked in one position while you take a still photo.

The reason people pay big bucks for a true fluid head is for smooth movement. There is always a search for a nice smoothly moving non-fluid or faux-fluid head because it will be less expensive, and perhaps there are decent faux-fluid head tripods available for under a few hundred bucks, but unless you're only shooting time lapse or other still photos, then that tripod you linked isn't even as useful as this $14.94 "Digital Concepts" tripod (http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Concepts-TR-60N-Camera-Carrying/dp/B000093UDQ/).

I'm sure that's a fine tripod for still photography, but using that with a video camera is like trying to catch a grizzly bear with a fishing pole. It's just not the right tool for the job and I think the lesson here for everybody looking for tripod recommendations (which is what this thread is all about) should take these things in account when reading recommendations in this thread and others like it.

Unfortunately, it's very difficulty to quantify "smooth" and "like butter" and things like that. With a video camera, we can post footage and watch footage and make up our minds, but when recommending something like a tripod, the "quality" becomes very subjective, and ends up being completely relative to the recommender's personal experiences and equipment use. It's truly a case where one man's treasure is another man's trash.

zephyrnoid

2007 July 6th, 08:44

Good grief. I could have recommended this old standby of mine Gitzo Giant Studex Gremalier ( notice the fluid head) but the tripod I recommended will take a small fluid head and be perfectly usably with some ballast stabilization- as a travel tripod for the HV20. I'll be using the setup I recommended, with a micro fluid head , and will gladly post the footage my peers will demand as evidence of efficacy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/zephyrnoid/gitzo.jpg
I do appologize for misleading anyone into thinking I was recommending the removeable ball head for video! I was tired at the time the post was put put up, but I'm not THAT crazy LOL:hv20-smilie03:

No offense to you, zephyrnoid, but I think your post is a good example of how people should look skepticlly at tripod recommendations from others, particularly if you aren't sure of what equipment the recommender has and hasn't ever used in their lives.

That tripod you're linked to is really in no way suitable for a video camera. That's a still camera tripod. If you have a camera that will never move at all while it's shooting like a security camera in the corner of a room, then I'm sure that tripod is fine, but I would never ever ever ever ever recommend that to anybody for a video camera.

This thread is full of discussion about true fluid heads vs pseudo fluid heads and the tripod you describe as "amazing" can't be used for panning or tilting at all. It's not that it's not a fluid head or even a fake fluid head, it's a head that's intended to be locked in one position while you take a still photo.

The reason people pay big bucks for a true fluid head is for smooth movement. There is always a search for a nice smoothly moving non-fluid or faux-fluid head because it will be less expensive, and perhaps there are decent faux-fluid head tripods available for under a few hundred bucks, but unless you're only shooting time lapse or other still photos, then that tripod you linked isn't even as useful as this $14.94 "Digital Concepts" tripod (http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Concepts-TR-60N-Camera-Carrying/dp/B000093UDQ/).

I'm sure that's a fine tripod for still photography, but using that with a video camera is like trying to catch a grizzly bear with a fishing pole. It's just not the right tool for the job and I think the lesson here for everybody looking for tripod recommendations (which is what this thread is all about) should take these things in account when reading recommendations in this thread and others like it.

Unfortunately, it's very difficulty to quantify "smooth" and "like butter" and things like that. With a video camera, we can post footage and watch footage and make up our minds, but when recommending something like a tripod, the "quality" becomes very subjective, and ends up being completely relative to the recommender's personal experiences and equipment use. It's truly a case where one man's treasure is another man's trash.