Best (printed) resources for learning video techniques?

[Simon Hughes]

I had posted this question in another thread (To Cine or not to Cine) but felt maybe I'd get a better response as a stand-alone topic:

I'm showing my ignorance here (which I do frequently) but despite a really solid background in still photography, terms like "180-degree shutter" are not known to me. Can you guys recommend a good book that would help get me grounded in the best ways to use the technology we have in the HV20? I keep looking in every bookstore but most of the "digital video handbook" type of publications give very little hands on info and even less background info. I'm not as interested in the different types of shots as how to best use shutter speed etc on a video cam. I want to understand, given the limitations of the HV20's controls, how to get the best performance under various types of shooting.

I Googled a few topics and found the following:

Video Shooter
by Barry Braverman
Jan 2006

and

The Filmaker's Handbook
by Steven Ascher & Edward Pincus
(this is an updated edition which includes HD digital and is scheduled for release Aug 28, 2007)

Ive ordered both but I'm curious if there are any others you might recommend?

[24Peter]

Simon - personally I think your time is better spent going out and experimenting/shooting with your HV20 than searching for books on how to shoot video. Tape is cheap. Hooking the camera up to your TV or computer and running through the different settings and seeing the results in real time is even cheaper.

"180 degree shutter speed" does not apply to the HV20. Think of it's settings just like those on your DSLR. Do I want to freeze individual moments of on screen action? Use a higher shutter speed (results in "Saving Private Ryan" look.) Slower shutter speeds blur the action. 1/48(50 in PAL land) "normal" shutter for 24p shooting. (1/60 "normal" for 60i shooting.) (What's the difference b/t 24p and 60i? Search this forum and in an hour you'll know all you need to know! No book needed.) Want more DOF? Close your apeture. Less? Open it.

There you go. That's it. (You probably noticed you know more than you think you do.) Now go out and shoot some video!

[Erik Bien]

I hear you, Simon!

It seems like many books on the subject either don't even try to keep up with the latest technology, or if they do, they quickly go out of date. Until someone can convince Barry Green (http://dvxuser.com/articles/hvxbook/) or Robert Goodman (http://www.goodmansguide.com/) to turn their attention to the little HV20, this little forum is one of the best sources around!

[Simon Hughes]

Peter, thanks for the reply and I am playing around and trying things. I'm one of those guys who has to have a written manual to study in order to learn best however, hence the question. (Not getting printed manuals with software just incenses me!)

I understand about shutter/aperture very well as it applies to still work, and I'm just trying to grasp what the differences are with video. On my DSLRs, I typically shoot exclusively in aperture priority, unless I'm specifically going for a motion blur (smokey waterfalls or panning motion) whereas from what I've seen here so far, shutter priority seems to be the more used mode. It's differences like this I'm trying to come to grips with.

Here's an example... if I want to shoot something that will eventually be used in slow motion, should I shoot it with a faster shutter speed to ensure maximum clarity? I know that in film, the camera is overclocked to capture, how do you do that (equivalently) on the HV20?

So many questions...

Cheers

[24Peter]

Peter, thanks for the reply and I am playing around and trying things. I'm one of those guys who has to have a written manual to study in order to learn best however, hence the question. (Not getting printed manuals with software just incenses me!)

I understand about shutter/aperture very well as it applies to still work, and I'm just trying to grasp what the differences are with video. On my DSLRs, I typically shoot exclusively in aperture priority, unless I'm specifically going for a motion blur (smokey waterfalls or panning motion) whereas from what I've seen here so far, shutter priority seems to be the more used mode. It's differences like this I'm trying to come to grips with.

Here's an example... if I want to shoot something that will eventually be used in slow motion, should I shoot it with a faster shutter speed to ensure maximum clarity? I know that in film, the camera is overclocked to capture, how do you do that (equivalently) on the HV20?

So many questions...

Cheers

I wasn't trying to be flippant. I too read all my users manuals. I was just trying to point out your still photography experience is probably more relavant than you think. (BTW - what camera do you shoot with? You can see some of my still photography work here: http://imageevent.com/24peter )

Valid question on the slow motion thing. Problem is, you can't really do the equivalent (i.e., overclocking frame-rate) on most DV/HDV cameras (not yet at least) since increasing shutter speed is not equivalent to increasing framerates. Some people have reported good results shooting in 60i with a SS of 1/100th-200th and then rendering it as 60p and then dropping the clip on a 24p timeline. I haven't tried that yet myself. (In the past I've been content with slowing the playback rate to 50% in Vegas on my 24p footage. Works fine for me for narrative work (i.e., short films) though if you're doing sports or some other high speed work it may not suffice.)

[Erik Bien]

Simon,

At the risk of over-simplifying, changing shutter speeds on video or motion picture cameras creates different effects on playback, so normally you'd want to maintain a constant shutter and use aperture/ND/gain to control your exposure.

I agree with Peter, book learning isn't the best way to grasp the difference: shoot some tests! 24p with a 1/48th shutter (NTSC) will give your footage a motion blur which closely approximates that of 24fps film shot at the same aperture. For the "Saving Private Ryan" 45-degree shutter look, shoot 24p with a faster shutter. For the "you are there" evening news/reality tv look, shoot 60i at 1/60th.

[Simon Hughes]

Peter, Erik,

While I feel fortunate to have graduated from having to use iMovie, unfortuntely I'm using Final Cut Express (not Pro) and I cannot do anything with 24p... it's just not supported, and I cannot justify the $1500 for Pro for a hobby. This is obviously going to limit what I can do versus what you are able to do. This is another reason I'm trying to get a grip as to what I can do with my setup.

Still camera wise, I'm shooting the following (depending on the mood and what I hope to accomplish):

Canon 1D Mark II N and lots of lovely L glass
Leica D-LUX2
Ricoh GRD
Panasonic Lumix TZ3
Leica V-LUX 1

(BTW Peter, all I see at your site are the little question mark icons where the pictures should be.)

In lieu of having 24p available as a tool, how would you modify what you just told me for the 45-degree shutter look etc?

Cheers

[24Peter]

Peter, Erik,

While I feel fortunate to have graduated from having to use iMovie, unfortuntely I'm using Final Cut Express (not Pro) and I cannot do anything with 24p...


Well technically I can't do anything with 24p from my HV20 in Vegas 7 either. So right now I'm just editing the files as 60i. Since I'm primarily outputting to SD DVD, it looks fine. The only time 24p becomes an issue so far is when I'm rendering to .wmv or .mov files for viewing on a computer - some ghosting is visible. But only then if there is fast movement on the image. Slow movement looks fine. So I don't worry too much about all this right now. Give it a try to see if you agree.


Still camera wise, I'm shooting the following (depending on the mood and what I hope to accomplish):

Canon 1D Mark II N and lots of lovely L glass
Leica D-LUX2
Ricoh GRD
Panasonic Lumix TZ3
Leica V-LUX 1

(BTW Peter, all I see at your site are the little question mark icons where the pictures should be.)



Love that Mark II N. I shoot primarily with an XT. I've also shot with a 5D. Waiting to see what Canon announces next month before I upgrade.

That link works fine for me. Give it another try? http://imageevent.com/24peter

[Simon Hughes]

Thanks, Peter, it worked this time. Very nice work!

[24Peter]

Thanks, Peter, it worked this time. Very nice work!

Thanks Simon. I'm working on a couple of swimsuit shoots from this past week (seems like I shoot either babes, or babies these days :hv20-smilie29: ) New photos should be up next week.

[Worley]

My problem with books - great as they are, and very useful a lot of the time - is that they tell you what something does, maybe how to do it, but don't tell you why or when you'd want to do/use it.

When I was trying to learn how to use my digital camera effectively, I read every book on photography in my local library just to understand why/when I would change the ISO value.

Eventually, I just took the camera and shot a load of picture using all the ISO settings in as many different lighting conditions as I could (making notes all the while!) so I could see for myself what this ISO thing really did.

Now I understand it better. Likewise for Exposure Compensation. And I know when to use the flash in bright conditions, and when to turn it off in the dark.

I've had a video camera for years, but it's only in the last year that I've been using the manual settings rather than Auto. Until I started using them, no matter how much I read, the explanations meant very little.

Read the books - as many as you can find - from Dummies Guides to Expert manuals. They will all help, but nothing quite beats getting out there and fiddling with the controls yourself.

Good luck!

[Simon Hughes]

My problem with books - great as they are, ....... but don't tell you why or when you'd want to do/use it.


Yeah, but this is exactly the kind of book that I'm looking for... one that does explain why or when etc.

I'm hoping that the forthcoming update edition of "The Filmaker's Handbook" (out Aug 28th) which has been specifically updated to include HD video will shed some light of things.

[Worley]

If only I could find such a book...