A Lighting Kit

[Michael Hackney]

I was looking into getting a lighting kit and have read that for the money Lowel may be the best way to go. I have googled for lighting kits and for Lowel lighting kits, but there are so many that come up. I'm not sure what all the different types of lights in each kit are and why one is better than the other.
I'm thinking that spending between $800 - $1500 sounds good for now. I will mainly be lighting for indie films, music videos, commercials, events, so I guess maybe a versatile package would be good. I'm just overwhelmed with all the options and really need your advice/ help. Thanks a lot and happy Independence Day.

[shawnyboy60]

Wondering if this is any good:

http://boothphoto.com/lkits.cfm?P=33

Seller told me it did the job for smaller projects, as the lights are 250W each. At 180$ CDN, they're quite affordable.

Any comments?

[Erik Bien]

FWIW, after I was informed that I am to be the videographer for some documentary interviews later this month using an HV20, Brevis 35mm adapter and Nikon still lenses, I decided it was time to buy a "real" light kit (the "Franken-Canon" already looks Rube Goldberg enough; no need to make matters worse showing up with milk crates full of spiral-flouro'd clip lights and chinese lanterns from 'Bed, Bath & Beyond'; besides, WFO on an f/1.2 55mm scares me).

So, my budget was right in your range, Michael, and my intended uses are roughly the same (absolutely positively gotta make pretty interviews, no matter how pressed we are for room, time, juice or manpower, and hopefully gear with enough versatility and life expectancy for future narrative projects).

I know a lot of gaffers roll their eyes at Lowel, but it's pretty hard to beat their combination of features, compactness and price. If I had more to spend, I'd love to have Dedos, if I had more crew, I'd love an assortment of Arris, but when it's me, the producer and his "Franken-Canon" and whatever lighting gear I can buy for around a grand and stuff into a rental car, I think it's Lowel all the way.

I went for the "DV Creator 44" kit in the hard-sided case: an unused one popped up on eBay for $995, and I snapped it up (then added accessories from B&H -- TotaMount, TotaClamp, screw-in studs, extra gel frame, etc. which essentially brought the price back up to full retail but still fit in the case ... barely ...)

Will 1800 watts be enough to let me stop down the Nikons for some workable depth of field? I should find out soon ...

[joachim]

you can achieve pretty nice results with only 1 soft box (controllable intensity) and 1 hard light.
soft in the front, hard as a backlight. take some distance of the interviewed, put on a more tele lens and depending on the background, the result can be smashing, with little effort, little money and the smallest crew.

i've done a lot of interviews this way (as a soundguy) for many programs (incl. a showbissprogram on belgium national tv), and it works every time, just be creative with the room you have.

[veg]

I've mentioned this in other posts here... is it really necessary for you to purchase?.
Particularly with lighting/sound equipment, where every shoot will require different rigs. Why not go to your local lighting/sound hire company and select exactly what you need for each shoot?.
You'll only be paying for exactly the lights/sound gear you need for the days you require them. Then return. I have a friend who bought an HMI because he thought it would be a good investment!!..then he found out how much a spare bubble cost. Spare bubble comes free when you hire.

[joachim]

I have a friend who bought an HMI because he thought it would be a good investment!!..then he found out how much a spare bubble cost. Spare bubble comes free when you hire.

not quite low budget light.
it's always a good idea to have some kind of basic light set, but keep it very simple. (like i said, a nice softbox and 1 or 2 hard lights)
and indeed, hire what you need only now and then.

[Erik Bien]

Hi, veg.

I look at it this way: if I can avoid renting at all for small projects, and get away with renting less for big ones, I'll be all even after around ten shooting days. A full set of replacement globes (which I also bought) adds maybe another day. Depending on how my summer shakes out, it might pay for itself by September.

Plus I hold out very little hope of being able to do much scouting for this project; I'll just have to "make do" wherever the interviews happen to take place, so I'd probably rent something just as "general".

Conventional indie filmmaking wisdom says "buy post gear and rent everything else," since the post-production phase is normally one of the longest while production is one of the shortest. But a good tripod (or a small light kit) will be useful long past tomorrow's software upgrade or next week's new camera.

And if you have used 'real' lighting gear it's hard to be satisfied with the compromises of homebuilt solutions: stands that won't go high enough, sources that are hot-spotty and difficult to control, etc. I'm tired of relying on that kind of stuff (although I'm not getting rid of any of it either; sometimes a cheap paper lantern on a stick is just what the situation calls for). I also thought that if I had something I could grab on a whim, I might actually light a bit more often, rather than go with the least objectionable result obtainable with natural light, reflectors and an on-cam obie (granted, this latter may be down to wishful thinking -- I'm quite lazy).

[shawnyboy60]

I've mentioned this in other posts here... is it really necessary for you to purchase?.
Particularly with lighting/sound equipment, where every shoot will require different rigs. Why not go to your local lighting/sound hire company and select exactly what you need for each shoot?.
You'll only be paying for exactly the lights/sound gear you need for the days you require them. Then return. I have a friend who bought an HMI because he thought it would be a good investment!!..then he found out how much a spare bubble cost. Spare bubble comes free when you hire.

Also, renting equipment is quite expensive as well. If you know exactly what you're doing and you know you'll do lots of it, buying it would be better.

As joachim said, I agree with having a small kind of basic set of lights. With the low price of certain kits, they're never actually lost and could always be useful.

[veg]

The reason I mentioned Hiring was because of the specific comment that the original poster made..."I will mainly be lighting for indie films, music videos, commercials, events, so I guess maybe a versatile package would be good.". To buy a lighting kit to cover all of these scenarios would cost a lot more than his budget. In my case most of my work is News and Documentaries and therefore fairly repetitive lightingwise so I purchased a set of Arri 800's, an Arri 300, 2 Dedos and a Lowell Totalight w/Chimera. That was the beginning....then there were the scrims, gels, spare bubbles, stands, clamps, extension cables etc., dont forget to include them in your budget Michael.
Veg.

[shawnyboy60]

The reason I mentioned Hiring was because of the specific comment that the original poster made..."I will mainly be lighting for indie films, music videos, commercials, events, so I guess maybe a versatile package would be good.". To buy a lighting kit to cover all of these scenarios would cost a lot more than his budget.

Ohh I understand now! Sorry I somewhat forgot about that!:hv20-smilie50:

[veg]

No need to apologize shawny.
The great thing about internet forum is how much we can learn for fast and free, by just communicating....and Michael?... don't forget insurance for your talent and crew especially if you go home made with your lights. Remember Pepsi and Michael Jackson?
Veg.

[Michael Hackney]

Thanks for all the input guys, I think I will start by getting a something like the "DV Creator 44" and then add lights and accessories here and there as I need them on a project by project basis. I live in El Paso, Tx, so renting out equipment and finding professionals isn't something easy to find, even though it's a pretty big city.

[skinnyboy]

The more digital shooting I do, the less I feel the need to spend a lot of money on lights.
DV cameras need very little light to get a good exposure, and the expensive lights (in my opinion) turn out too much light and you have to use diffusion and bounce and stop down to get a decent shot.
A couple scoops and flourescent bulbs work wonders with DV, and you don't have to worry about burning yourself.

On the other hand, having a 1k or two handy is nice for making it look like daylight through a window or something like that.

[tcindie]

Has anyone used any of the britek lights? They look like decent fixtures, and the prices seem to be significantly lower than a lot of the other brands.

I personally think that a decent 3 or 4 point light kit is a must have for anyone who intends to do more than the birthday/christmas video thing. Whether that is a home built solution or retail package -- it's good to have on hand. Renting for larger shoots is probably a good idea, but renting for every shoot is not such a good idea. Also, depending on where you live and what else happens to be going on, the rental house may not necessarily have what you need available.

[Erik Bien]

Reviews on the Briteks seem to be mixed (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=81935) (do a search for them at DVXuser to find many more opinions).

[zephyrnoid]

Don't forget the rentals option. I own very few lights- just enough to do a two person interview by myself. 2 omnis, 1 V-light, reflectors and so on. I rent everything else!

[bytehoven]

Don't forget the rentals option. I own very few lights- just enough to do a two person interview by myself. 2 omnis, 1 V-light, reflectors and so on. I rent everything else!

Z...

What are your thoughts on a V-light versus the lowel tota fixture?

What lamps sizes you keep handy for your fixtures?

Do you own a soft light kit, of has the V-light and an umbrella been a workable alternative to the extra fixture?

Thanks

[mattias]

i would get a rifa for sure. i don't have one since except for some flo fixtures and china balls i rent everything, but if i ever feel the need for a portable kit it will be a lowel rifa kit for sure. with two rifas and a tota you can do anything (well almost).

/matt

[bytehoven]

Mattias...

You prefer the soft light appraoch over omni(s) because it makes your principle softer in the overall environment?

How do you chose between rifa sizes?

[mattias]

soft light is often ready to use as is, hard light needs lots of control. in general i like to use hard sources and flag/bounce/diffuse them but throwing up a rifa and attaching an eggcrate takes 30 seconds and doesn't require an assistant. i very rarely use hard sources directly unless they are fresnels. open face lights throw ugly patterns and lowel lights even more so.

/matt

[bytehoven]

matt...

How about preferred size of rifa?

Also, what's your lamp assignment like with a (2) rifa (1) tota setup?

[Erik Bien]

I have a Rifa 44 (300W) and it's not quite enough for me: I think a 55 (500W) or 66 (750W) would be more versatile (plus the larger physical size stays "softer" if you have to place it further from the talent). The other Lowel that I really like is the little Pro light: it's really punchy for a measly 250 watts!

[mattias]

i like the 1k's since i work a lot with film, but they are all good. maybe the smallest one won't be bright enough for anything but closeups though. with two rifas and a tota one setup you can easily do is key and backlight with the rifas, no need for fill since they wrap so much, and use the tota to light the background, or you can key two subjects, or you can bounce the tota in the ceiling as fill. or you can use one rifa high above the camera and one just below for a smooth ad style look, then use the tota as a kicker, back or rim light. one thing i like to do is put rifas in doorways to emulate sunlight coming from that room when people walk past. my normal setup on low budget shoots is a 575 or 1200w hmi and two kinos, and this is the even lower budget version of that. ;-)

/matt

[bytehoven]

Can anyone comment regarding performance of a rifa versus a softbox mounted to an Omni? The latter offering the use of the Omni without the attachment.

[mattias]

the rifa gives you more output, softer light, and is easier to set up. when i need soft light from an open face i like to simply shine it through a frame of diffusion, that gives you more control since you can vary the strength, size and distance.

/matt

[bytehoven]

Thanks for the discussion everyone.

I have been thinking of adding something to my of "blue grass band" of 150-300 watt shop lamps with diffusion. Something that makes it a little faster/easier to stage a product table top shot, as well as provide a little better profile on simple location shoots. The rifa/softbox sparked my interest, but I'm not sure what size.

If it was two rifa fixtures, I was thinking maybe a 44/66 combo, thinking the 44 might be easier to manuver/position. If it was a single fixture, Eric has me thinking the 66 might be a better way to go and then see just how well it integrates into various settings.

Down the road I would consider swapping out those shop lamps , which has me wondering...

How much color do I need to add to the shop lamps for use with the tungsten lamp(s)?

Thanks again for the discussion.